Monday, 10 March 2008

Two mothers, two lost girls, one class system

Meet the two sides of the social class coin in Britain: Karen Matthews and Kate McCann. From parallel socioeconomic worlds, the two women are bound by perhaps the most traumatic experience a parent can have: the disappearance of a child.

Ms Matthews' nine-year-old daughter Shannon, from West Yorkshire, has been missing since February 19. Madeleine McCann, 4, vanished from her bed in Portugal in May last year. It is suspected that both were abducted.

The unkind have depicted the two mothers as Waynetta Slob - Britain's most famous underclass stereotype - versus Kate Moss - darling of the glamour set. They have compared Ms Matthews' seven children by five fathers and her 22-year-old boyfriend with Mrs McCann's IVF-conceived twins and heart-surgeon husband. The high-minded say these things should not matter; it is the missing girls that are important. But it is clear that the perception of class does matter when trying to capture the public's imagination.

You may not have heard of Shannon Matthews. The little girl, from an impoverished council estate in Dewsbury in Britain's north, disappeared as she walked home after a swimming class. The police have deployed 350 officers and 60 detectives to the search, joined by innumerable local volunteers. A reward of £25,000 ($A55,000) has been raised, with The Sun contributing £20,000.

You will have heard of Madeleine McCann, who vanished from a holiday apartment in Portugal last May. Her comfortable home in Leicestershire, in the East Midlands, became the site of a media stakeout after her parents, Gerry, a cardiologist, and Kate, a GP, returned to Britain.
At this point in Madeleine's disappearance last year, £2.5 million had been raised, with contributions from Sir Richard Branson and J. K. Rowling. Celebrities including David Beckham publicly appealed and the McCanns had begun their sophisticated media strategy: daily briefings, a website, experienced representatives and eventually, a meeting with the Pope and the appointment of a private detective agency.

A distressed Kate McCann: lean, blonde and articulate, clutching her daughter's soft toy and wearing a yellow ribbon of hope, was the figurehead from the outset. Amid accusations of police incompetence, the McCanns were declared suspects but have never been charged. A commentator in the Daily Mail wailed: "This kind of thing doesn't usually happen to people like us."

It was two weeks after Shannon's disappearance before her mother, 32, was put before the television cameras. With no make-up, hair askew, wearing a T-shirt saying "Help find Shannon", Ms Matthews looked the essence of working-class Britain. She, too, clutched her daughter's teddy bear and tearfully appealed for information. But Shannon did not make the front pages. In the first 16 days of Madeleine's disappearance, 519 articles were written about her in Britain. By Wednesday, 16 days after Shannon went missing, she had received 111 mentions.


A former Daily Mirror editor and media commentator with The Guardian, Roy Greenslade, appraises public perception and media judgement. "The mother (Karen Matthews) is unsympathetic. This is a dysfunctional family, and people feel, 'Does she not bring this upon herself? Is she not the author of her own misfortune?' " He says Ms Matthews represents an underclass that Daily Mail readers and their like cannot and do not want to relate to.
But the McCanns, he says, with their seemingly respectable lives, represent the aspirations of Middle England. "It shouldn't matter. But it does. This is a really difficult thing for editors. They don't like talking about this aspect because it really does betray the unspoken way they make their mind up."

This is not what Gordon Brown had hoped for Britain under his reign. In his first Labour Party conference address as Prime Minister in September, he said: "A class-free society is not a slogan but in Britain can become a reality … I stand for a Britain that supports as first-class citizens not just some children and some families, but (that) supports all children and all families."

He may have a long way to go. In a Guardian/ICM poll in October, nearly 90% of respondents said people were still judged by their class. The poorest were most aware of its influence, with 55% saying that class, not ability, affected the way they were judged.

But there has been a backlash. In radio talkback and online forums, people are criticising the perceived media prejudice. In a forum on the Government's family support website, one parent said that the McCanns were neglectful by leaving their children alone in the apartment when Madeleine disappeared: "If they were from a sink council housing estate, and looked like (the boorish Little Britain character) Vicky Pollard, the press would have been screaming for their blood."

Julie Bushby, who chairs the tenants association on the estate where Shannon lives, said: "Listen, we're not pissed out of our trees or high as a kite all the time, like they associate with council estates. Ninety per cent of people here work."

A major difficulty has been a lack of funding to put into a PR campaign for Shannon. Greenslade points out that the coverage of Madeleine has been disproportionate; that she disappeared in a foreign country during the northern summer "silly season" when news dries up. But, he concedes, appearances do count: where there is a multitude of images and video footage of Madeleine to run on TV and websites, there is one stark school photo of Shannon, and grainy CCTV footage of her leaving the swimming pool. "One doesn't want to be rude about the Matthews family," he says. "But cuteness, prettiness, beauty does play a part. The most important thing there (for media attention) is the image."

But pretty or not, underclass or Middle England, even the greatest level of public awareness and sympathy may not win either of these little girls back to their desperate families.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/world/two-mothers-two-lost-girls-one-class-system/2008/03/07/1204780112926.html

286 comments:

1 – 200 of 286   Newer›   Newest»
SassyP said...

I do believe that Madeleine's looks have something to do with the media coverage (as I believe did Jessica and Holly's appearances).

However, I also think that with Madeleine it was the way she was taken and the fact that she was abroad when it happened. We saw pictures of her having a lovely time not knowing that that day on the beach was very probably to be her last.

Jojam said...

I think the media has learnt a lesson from Their coverage of Madeleine.........The puplic obssession...........The vile, nasty unfair comments on forums attacking Kate & Gerry.......... I believe that the media wanted to avoid the same thing happening to Shannon's family.

SassyP said...

Morning JoJam

I don't think that the media feels bad about much at all! They sold many more newspapers because of Madeleine and that is their main aim.

Jojam said...

Hi Sassy,
Just found an interesting piece that highlights another difference in the cases............

In terms of the police investigation, West Yorkshire police say 10% of the operational force is being dedicated to the task of finding Shannon and will be until she is found. That's 250 uniformed police officers and 60 detectives.

The houses around where she lives are being searched with sniffer dogs and the backgrounds of her extended family and those close to them are being checked by police. In Portugal, around 100 local police and detectives were working on the case in those first few weeks looking for Madeleine.

The families and friends of both Madeleine and Shannon are desperate for good news, that their loved ones are somewhere safe. Both have publicly stated they believe that keeping the girls names high in the media news agenda will mean they are not forgotten and hopefully returned safe home one day.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2008/03/missing_children.html


It would appear that Shannon has had more Police input in the first vital hours & days..........

Yes I agree that they sold a lot of papers through their coverage of Madeleine........

supertroll said...

That Viv is simply so evil.

It is amazing how she manages to twist things.

I have just seen what bile she posted about me on your site last night so I posted this on hers.

She will probably delete it so please do keep it on because I have had enough of this mad woman and I want things to be clear from where I stand.

Thank you

supertroll said...
Please pass the info Viv,

But you will find that the local police in that resort are aware of these paedophiles and that my news is common knowledge in the area.

Could you let me know the name of the officer in charge of investigating me and my blog?

I'd rather go to them myself than have them waste time trying to trace me.

Could you please give me a name or are you going to delete this post also because your claims of reporting me are not true?

My email is available if you click on my profile.

Regards
ST

SassyP said...

Hiya JoJam

Thanks for the info. It's good to know that the police seem to be doing their best with the investigation and have dedicated so many of their staff to the case.

I remember Gerry McCann talking about some organisation which said the best thing to do is to keep your child's name in the media.

Let's hope that Shannon's case doesn't drag on as long as Madeleine's - although I have the feeling that it won't.

SassyP said...

Supertroll

However malicious that woman is, try and ignore her. She is getting desperate for attention because everyone seems to have abandoned her blog - hence the parrot and dog stories! People go over every now and then for a pity post, but that is about it.

What do you think of the article from the Brisbane Post?

Jojam said...

Hi Sassy,
I hope effective use of police resources will be more effective in finding Shannon.........I believe effective use police is more important than keeping the child's name in the media..........Just my oppinion

Have a good day

supertroll said...

Sassy,

Thanks for that. I will try to calm down, but accusing people of such things shows that she is well in Felicity Lowde's league. Look what happened to her!

The Brisbane article makes me feel uncomfortable and quite guilty because it is true. There has been so much more attention over Maddie than over poor Shannon and it really is not fair.

Could this be because when such tragedies happen more to lower income families people don't relate as much to them, or prejudice makes them suspect them?

And when such a thing happens to someone who we relate to more the reality of it hits us harder?

There is also the case of little Mari Luz, the coverage was also much less than that of Maddie, and many of the stories that came out of gypsy feuds were annoying and very ignorant.

Regards
ST

supertroll said...

I also forget to add, that news about Maddie will sell many more papers than news about Shannon.

Again not fair.
ST

Gina said...

I know perhaps I should have post this on yesterdays article but thought perhaps you would not look back. I did say to Rosiepops I would let her know if I found out anything, and I have just posted the following on Alsa's site. I think it best in future if I just post anything I find on that site where you can all read it if you want, instead of jumping from one to the other. I am sure if any of you want to query or answer anything I have said, Alsa. will not delete it if it is just a normal post with no malice.

Gina said...
Good Morning all, I said yesterday I would try to find out about the attempted abduction in Moraira Spain, and this is the information I have, almost straight from the horses mouth.

The story is as reported in the Mirror. They did not mention that these people had obviously been watching because they arrived with a bone for the dog. There was no big fight just a load of yelling and screaming which alerted a neigbour who called the police. Nobody seems to know anything about the alleged attempted abduction three days earlier and everybody is asking why this did not make our local newspaper first. Nothing much ever happens in Moraira, it is a quiet place and there is little crime. We are all asking why the local paper was not on the case, everybody was talking about it in bars and restaurants on Tuesday night, plenty of time to be in the Friday edition of the Costa Blanca news. However it became an exclusive in the Mirror?? I can confirm it happened, but as yet cannot confirm whether the couple mentioned the McCanns or the line was fed to them by the reporter. I can confirm it was 2 women in the house but as yet not able to confirm the getaway car as no one seems to have seem that. You may be interested to know it is, I would guess approx 9-10 hours drive from Moraira to PDL.

I cannot confirm anything about what the police are doing as been unable to get in touch with my Guardia contacts. Just one comment from me, nobody else saw whether these people were actually trying to take the child or not although they can confirm intruders were in the house. Someone said it is possible that they were near the child when the mother came in and she presumed they were about to take her because there has been so much news about abductions recently it is the first thing a mum would think of. The bone for the dog is normal with these kind of people, although it does not happen everyday they break in and steal, clothes food and money. That all I can say, I am not trying for one minute to deny this happened I am sure it did, but like others we wonder why it did not get coverage here first.

SassyP said...

GinaM

Thank you for the post.

gina said...

Sassy P, you are welcomed

SassyP said...

Supertroll

Vile just wants to muck up our blog as hers is practically defunct! I'm sure that her attitude will get her into serious trouble one day!

What you said about papers with Madeleine on the cover will sell more papers than those with Shannon's picture, I reckon you're right. Appearances do help and although Shannon looks like a cheeky schoolgirl and is sweet that way, Madeleine is much younger and undoubtedly a beautiful-looking kid and that has an appeal of its own, too.

supertroll said...

Sassy,

I reckon Vile is feeling cornered and lashing out.

I might introduce my cat Naomi to her blog, she should sort things out pretty quickly. Mind you, Viv might have to hide the parrot.

My cat is such a madam that even foxes don't come anywhere near our property. Our house is vixen and rodent free..

-----------------------------------

Shannon does have a nice cheeky face. I was very upset when I saw Sky news' interview with her father. It really is very sad and I don't understand why this is less newsworthy.

One can only hope these cases will be resolved happily.

ST

supertroll said...

And another post I have left on the vile blog which will probably be deleted. Sorry about bothering you with this.

Viv,

I am still waiting for a post or an email with the name of the investigating officer.

If you have indeed reported me to the police it is only fair to do this as I am sure they want to talk to me, and I definitely want to talk to them also.

If I don't get a name today, I will assume that your claims are false, like most of the claims in this blog.

Regards
ST

SassyP said...

Supertroll

I do voluntary work in an animal rescue home. Imagine the number of stories I could supply for the Pets Corner page of the Justice for Maddie page - where IS the logic of parrots and dogs on such a site???

As far as Shannon is concerned, I think her disappearance seems less dramatic too because it happened in Britain. There is something more sinister about a little girl being taken when she is at her most vulnerable (ie asleep) and taken in a foreign country, possibly shipped to yet another country.

Also with Madeleine one of the very many speculations was that a whole gang of paedophiles arranged her kidnap which makes it all sound more sinister than with a kidnapping by one person. Obviously a kidnapping by one kidnapper isn't any better, it just doesn't sound as sinister.

calcite51 said...

ST, SassyP and Rosie - what a nite it was last nite.

SassyP said...

Hiya Calcite

How right you are - saw how brilliantly you handled the whole thing - nice one!

calcite51 said...

She was also on A's blog and pasted her complaint about ST knowing where the pedophiles were. And that she had run into someone called Calcite51 and I had threatened her with complaining about her to the police and social services.

Rosiepops said...

Calcite

you had us in fits with your responses last night, well done, you handled your slice of fruit cake brilliantly x

calcite51 said...

Thanks, Sassy - but you guys owe me hell of a big drink.

SassyP said...

Calcite

The fact she was on Casa Crud shows how desperate she was for people to read her. Even she knows that writing anything on her own blog means noone will read it!

SassyP said...

Calcite

Help yourself!

SassyP said...

Supertroll

Let us know when you hear something!

calcite51 said...

Oh, well - I was stunned - I had just sent the comment about the Omen and the anti-christ - she showed up.

I think I did handle her very well - I thought she'd be more like her friend Claudia.

The drink will have to wait till tonight - I have to get ready and go to that four letter word.

helenm said...

Hi all,

Jojam not so sure that the media are so altruistic, I feel sure that their main aim is to sell papers. Call me cynical but that is how I feel.

This article by the Brisbane post highlights the class system that is present in the United Kingdom, and however much I would wish that it were not true, it does exist. We do not stand alone in this though, the case of Mari Luz Cortes was IMO treated very similar to Shannon.

However, I think that the way forward in all cases of missing/abducted children is to keep the investigation in the media, do not let these children be forgotten. IMO the media have to take responsibility for this.

Supertroll, ignore that woman, she talks through her .......

Ginam, thanks for your post. I try not to be paranoid about the Madeleine investigation, but I must admit that when you say that the news of these 'alleged' attempts at abduction have not made the papers in Moraira, leads me to the same old about 'tourist' numbers. It could also simply be that these mums were ex pats and that is the reason this story found itself in the british papers.

SassyP said...

Calcite

OH NO! Not the W word!!!

SassyP said...

HelenM

Isn't it funny how the class system affects so much. I never really noticed it until I came here.

I told my students once that in primary school we learnt about the class system and we were asked what our dads' jobs were. Then we were told which class we were in! Can you imagine doing that nowadays! (OK, now I sound ancient!). My students couldn't believe it! I spent the rest of the lesson picking up chins from the floor!

Rosiepops said...

Gina

Thanks for letting us know. I can understand a woman going ballistic finding intruders near her child, I would have have hit them with something. I find it odd that they apparently walked past valuables and washing to get near the child. Regardless though what an awful shock for this poor mother, to find intruders in your home is bad enough, but to find them near your child! I am not a violent person but if I found intruders near any of my grandchildren I honestly would not be responsible for my actions, I have only lost my temper five times in my whole life and each time it has been as a result of someone coming near one of my children, it is true, you do see a red mist!

As to why the local paper didn't pick it up, who knows do they have the same system we have here where a reported can go into the police station and get news? Or go into the local courts and get news?
I expect the Mirror picked it up because by the sound of it they are not happy that the police are treating the story properly, so naturally they will go to a national who will report it, I would have done the same. Equally though, who knows what they actually said to the reporter and what was actually written, could be two different things!

I'll keep checking Alsa's for updates on Mari, to save yo putting them on here.

Thanks Gina.

calcite51 said...

jojam - I'd like to think you're right.

Unfortunately, I don't have that much faith in our media circuit - I think as long as they sell their stories/pictures everyone and anyone that sells stories is a potential hit. No matter what hell the person may be going through.

I pray that both Shannon and Madeleine will be found alive and safe. Yet as time goes on I am less optimistic.

Hopefully, lessons can be learned by both cases in Europe - i.e. Amber Alert (where when a child goes missing, other police agencies and the public are advised a child has gone missing - the description of the child/pictures, and any known info about the abductor - vehicle he was driving, license plate number, description of the vehicle, etc.

Rosiepops said...

Hi supertroll

We know what she is doing, everyone does. We should pity her really she is so transparent.

She has no credibility, there is a home for her on Alsa3bellies site, they get on well, both have clearly libellous sites and both are so far up their own backsides that they haven't seen daylight for a year.

Any person that is sane and rational can see past her, Alsa, Leigh, 2345 and notdoc, they all seem to have the same personality traits - obnoxious, demanding, vane and self adoring and completely out of touch with reality.

Alsa3bellies does not want debate she wants adoration, she doesn't like us or allow our posts to remain on their sites because they know we have seen straight through them all.

This thing about the paedophiles, I find it odd that Felicity has picked up on this and is trying to cause trouble with it, when it was plain and obvious to people what you meant, she is just trying to cause trouble.

I note she was asked yesterday if she had been to the police about her blog attack, but is very reluctant to say if she did or not, she talks about 'vexatious litigant', this is something I mentioned on the DX boards many months ago. I think she sounds a bit like this, perhaps the police know her?

Can't think why she has come on here to threaten you, but it doesn't matter, we know what she and what she is like.
She made me laugh she has got the hump because we have been talking about her, what the hell has she been doing to me this last few months? Her and notdoc and offspring Leigh3 and now they have fostered another child 2345!

supertroll said...

Thank you all for your comments of support. They mean a lot to me.

Still no news.

ST

helenm said...

Hi, just to let you know that the Daily Mail are running the following

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=529150&in_page_id=1811

the lawyer has resumed his search of the barragem da Arade.

calcite51 said...

HelenM - I left you the link to Martin's sky News (go to last nite's page).

Janegt didn't think the article was that great - but I did because there was a kinder note in the article than I expected. I had been told by some of the Anti's that Martin had become very cynical of the McCanns.

supertroll said...

Rosiepops,

I guess her anger was predictable after the things we said yesterday, she deserves evertthing she gets after the things she posts.
.
It is funny the ridiculous stories that will come up when she tries to defend herself.

What I also find very funny about alsabellies' blog is the disclaimer, the blog was only ever started to post lies and libel.

It is like planting bombs and then taking no responsibility if they explode.

I guess I will be accused of being a terrorist now.

ST

calcite51 said...

HelenM - went and read the story - if she is there, let them find her please. This has to be so hard on Kate and Gerry and the not knowing would even be worst.

calcite51 said...

ST - don't say things like that otherwise, I'll be getting another midnight visit.

supertroll said...

Calcite,

You handled the last visit extremely well, thank you.

I have all my trust in you.

;)

ST

SassyP said...

HelenM

The story you pointed out is also in portugalresident.com. Do you know the paper?

Rosiepops said...

What is worrying me about these abductions and attempted abductions is the host country's reluctance to report them properly. This has also been reported as happening in Portugal too.
Don't forget that these descriptions of people were also reported in and around PDL a year before Madeleine was abducted and also in the weeks leading up to when she was abducted.
There are many people to have come forward to say this, surely they cannot all be telling lies or involved in a huge McCann conspiracy theory?

If only the local police and Mark Warner had made this known by way of leaving warnings on fliers in each apartment, the McCann's may not have felt it was safe to leave their children like this and this terrible tragedy would not have happened.

I think that the PDL police and MW has an awful lot to answer for and I do feel that the governments and police forces of both these countries are thinking of tourism and they should be thinking of the children first.
I hope tour operators are doing their job and warning people about this obvious danger.

calcite51 said...

Rosie - give your a head a shake. Clarence is staging all these abductions - don't you know. Just go on A's pages and you'll see.

Initially, at the beginning, did the same blog think that Metado3 were behind Mari Lus abduction.

The McCanns are responsible for all the woes of our world. Don't know who we were blaming before they came along.

helenm said...

Hi Sassyp, yes the Resident is a reliable newspaper used by ex pats. Whilst looking in I found this,don't know whether you saw it

'Meanwhile, the investigation into the case of missing Rui Pedro, a Portuguese boy who was abducted in 1998 in Lousada, in the north of Portugal, will remain protected by the secrecy of justice law, following a request from the family’s lawyer.

Ten years after Rui Pedro’s disappearance, who is now 21 years-old, police are following a new line of investigation which was not previously considered.'

I would hate to think that this is a scenario that could be facing the Mccann's.

Calcite51, thanks for the link, I know that the anti's camp tried to intimate that Martin Brunt was changing his mind about the Mccann's but I have never thought that to be the case. I think it shows that the anti's view this reporter as credible, as I do, so were desperately clinging to the hope that it was true.

Have looked back on some of last nights posts, tell me Calcite was that woman actually on the site or were you speaking to yourself!!!lol

Gina said...

Rosie/Helen M

Just to let you know the Costa Blanca News is a newspaper for ex pats so there is no reason for them not to print this story, infact they only write for us. I have emailed them ask why they did not do it and asked them to "get off their backsides" and investigate if the police have or are doing anything about it. I have always been led to believe they are doing a good job but if they are not, we need to know about it. Nothing was lost on this occasion but it could have been and whilst I accept how difficult it is to trace an abducted child I would like to feel confident that they would do everything possible. I will not defend them if they have not acted properly on this case.

I said I would not post here again (so ok I am a liar !!!!) but it was easier than trying to response on Alsa's site Regards, over and out

Gina said...

Rosie/Helen M

Just to let you know the Costa Blanca News is a newspaper for ex pats so there is no reason for them not to print this story, infact they only write for us. I have emailed them ask why they did not do it and asked them to "get off their backsides" and investigate if the police have or are doing anything about it. I have always been led to believe they are doing a good job but if they are not, we need to know about it. Nothing was lost on this occasion but it could have been and whilst I accept how difficult it is to trace an abducted child I would like to feel confident that they would do everything possible. I will not defend them if they have not acted properly on this case.

I said I would not post here again (so ok I am a liar !!!!) but it was easier than trying to response on Alsa's site Regards, over and out

calcite51 said...

Gina, please feel free to post anytime on this blog but if you decide not to I will still read your comments (they're the ones that make sense).

And no, no one will call you a liar on this site.

calcite51 said...

Okay, now I'm off - you guys have a good day.

Will catch up tonight.

Rosiepops said...

Supertroll

What Alsabellies should know that in this country regarding the law is that "Ignorance is no defence". Her site is libellous as she has the chance to remove such posts and her pathetic little disclaimer as hilarious as it is, will not save her.

I wonder what the McCann's will make of her and her site on a moral note let alone on a legal one?

Alsabellies pretends to know everything and everyone in and around PDL (if not Portugal and now Spain!) and she regularly posts things that no one else seems to have heard of and when people ask her where she has got this info from she goes all James Bond and intimates that she knows a lot more nudge nudge wink wink and refuses to say, weel i think she is making it all up as nothing of what she has ever said has been true of seen to be true and it is the same kind of behaviour that notdoc exhibits too! I was cracking up with laughter yesterday on reading the vile site, what with the parrot and dog page, but then there was an exchange of posts between Felicity and notdoc, going on about some little slip of the McCann's and how they were going to talk about it further in email, obviously it was invented.
Sooo funnneeee, why if they were going to talk about it in email did they have to talk about it in their posts? It is so obviously contrived that you could almost hear them making it up as they went along.
Strange behaviour, strange odd and so immature!

Rosiepops said...

Gina,

No problem appreciate the updates thanks.

supertroll said...

Rosiepops,

From what I heard, from an anonymous poster they do communicate via email and it is apparently quite awful what goes on.

Hopefully it will come out one day. I have left a link to my blog email in case anybody wants to tell me stuff.

I had never poster before in Alsabellies site, but seeing how she had posted quite a libellous post about me, I have just posted the following:

supertroll said...
Alsabella,

I have never commented on your blog before, but reading it I found this comment you posted about me:

alsabella said...
Hi Viv

I can definitely see why you are shocked. You would think someone so worried about child abductions would at least inform the local police that these types of people are lurking in their midst...

But then again, Viv, perhaps that is not really their interest at all...

She does make me think that there really should be an INTERNATIONAL PAEDOPHILE REGISTER. Particularly now with the EU, and how easy it is for everyone to travel back and forth...

Perhaps that is something we can all think of and perhaps if we agree try to figure out a way to pressure the respective governments of our various countries into looking into this? Just food for thought...

10 March 2008 03:48

I have an issue with the comment:

'But then again, Viv, perhaps that is not really their interest at all...'

What are you implying here?
I know that Viv is completely mad, but I thought even you would know better.

If I know about these paedophiles it is because it is common knowledge, and the local police are well aware of them, one of them is in jail and the other two finished their sentences.

I was mentioning them as an example and an argument for the need for an internation paedophile register. I was actually defending both countries.

I find your post extremely libellous and I would like it removed and/or an apology.

I don't know to which police force mad Viv claims to have reported me to, but from my side I will say that I am definitely going to get authorities and lawyers to look at her blog and this one if you don't remove the post.

Unlike Viv, I don't lie when I make such claims.

ST

SassyP said...

ST

I found it obvious that if you knew who the paedos were that the police would also know who they were.

Some people are so basic, aren't they!!!? You should just let them report it all to the police so that they look stupid in front of them!

supertroll said...

Sassy,

Thank you.
You are right, there was no excuse to her post.

The posts have since been removed by Alsabella who is slightly smarter than Viv.

I had my blog looked at by a solicitor, and while the stuff there may be insulting to some, it stands to legal scrutiny as far she is concerned.

But I don't think implying that a fellow blogger harbours paedophiles would actually stand to legal scrutiny.

ST

SassyP said...

Good! You got some result then. I had a quick look at what the result of your mail was and I see that the only person in the world who cares about missing children is Alsabella. Now I'm informed!!!

Must go!

Catch you later.

Sass

melbel said...

Hi all
Nice to hear from Gina too.it is good to have feedback from people more on the spot than us.
This class thing is very interesting.
I think that initially, a one parent family mum, from a sink estate, if she could have afforded such a holiday, would have got more stick.
I think that there is something in the fact, that the media were interested, because of the nature of the disappearance, of a child taken from their bed, while on holiday, abroad too.It is a rare event.
I seem to remember only one other case, of a child snatched from a caravan in UK, some years back.
After the first few days and weeks, though, I think that the McCs got more criticism,because they were doctors.
We are still getting a lot of coverage in our local Yorkshire newspapers of Shannon.
There do not seem to be many leads at the moment, but many houses have been searched and there are apparently many sex offenders, in the region, who are being checked.
I read that k and G are offering to pay for posters, but cannot remember where I read it, as I do read quite a few newspapers.
I believe that Shannon's mum was grateful and cannot see why some people always put a Clarence agenda on everything.
It is one suffering set of parents reaching out to another and that is classless.
I feel that there is a lot of jealousy among some antis of K and G, because they are an attractive family and have high status jobs.
The poor child , whose gran let the dog in, which mauled and killed her, came from a poor socio economic background in the UK,with gran a drugs user.
I am sure that most people winced and thought "if only ".
However, there was, rightly ,no media campaign, no hate forums and blogs.
With K and G,this is on an industrialised scale and in truth, we know nothing.
I am staggered at the mentality of such people and it is totally alien to the way I was brought up.
I am even sadder at people like Notdoc and Drval,who claim to have professions.
There is something very undignified and unprofessional, in my book, about someone claiming to be a consultant, who goes to the trouble of writing criticisms of our Jane and her daughter/childrearing practices.
Maybe one cannot let the children play out in Capetown, on account of the crime rate.
That was wicked and vicious, just like saying that you will send a wreath to Rosie, and making sick suggestions about their dog.
Creep back into your hole, man,as you are bang out of order.
Jane is a fine human being, the likes of which,you could never aspire to and her family will be brought up with sound values about justice and appropriate ways to behave and above all, compassion.
As for men who write obsessively on the McCs, laying in to them all the time and trying to prove how clever they are,I do not meet many such Jessies in these parts.
Most women I know ,would throw a dickeydoo, if the other half was banging away, maliciously on the computer about people they do not know.Spend some time with your own children.
Re Viv, I doubt that any social worker would have such a loose cannon for a friend.
Enough of them. Be gone.

Be safe, everybody. It is calm here, just now, after a lot of wind , overnight.More to come, I think.
Regards.Hope mum is ok, so near the sea.
Do feel free, mods, to moderate me, when I have a dickeydoo, too.!
Top marks for Calcite.Boy, what an experience that was !

Rosiepops said...

Supertroll

I see the offending material has been removed - good.
Anyone who read your original post would have understood exactly what you meant.

It seems to me that whatever these two do not like they make a story up about it and why let the truth get in the way of a story for their blogs?

I know this blog can be quite harsh and rude about the PJ, but we are not writing anything which isn't true and which hasn't been in most newspapers in most countries. I constantly point to the incompetence of the PJ because I want something done about it,
I do not want to be on this blog next year complaining that these two countries have still done nothing about their archaic laws, laws where in Portugal have actually impeded the investigation into the disappearance of a 4 year old child.

I also find it amazing that now after months of reading what I have been writing both on here and the DX, does Alsabellies finally concede to the point I have constantly been making and for which I have been called a racist and xenophobe for! I have been calling for joined up thinking and asking for a national DNA based register for paedophiles, I have been asking that our police be allowed to go into Portugal and take over this investigation and work with the PJ and I have stressed the need for this as Europe has become a small Continent with so much integration and people working and living in other countries and I have been personally attacked for it, so nice to have you on board *at last* Alsabelia, great to see you coming round to the pro's way of thinking, better late than never I suppose.

You say you want people to band together to put pressure on our successive governments, this is yet another thing I have been calling for, for many months.

But Alsabelia, before you think of putting pressure on the EU for a DNA based sex offenders register, could you try putting pressure on your own Portuguese government for a DNA based sex offenders register? Because despite all that has happened you still have not got one! You haven't even got a sex offenders register!

You say you have all these contacts in high places (the same as you criticize the McCanns for having, this hasn't escaped me either) Why don't you make use of them if you really do have them and start lobbying your government immediately? Because at the moment all I am seeing is a country that is sweeping the problem of paedophilia under the carpet. I am seeing a country that is in denial that is seen as a haven for any passing paedophile and I am seeing a country in denial about how inept its police force actually is.

However, while Portugal may not admit it has these problems, they are being seen by the rest of the world. I am beginning to wonder if Portugal is even capable of governing itself, because it certainly incapable of controlling its police force who seem to just do and say what they want when they want and are not too concerned if what they are saying is actually true!

The treatment of the McCann's is absolutely inhumane however, if that has served one purpose it has brought to the attention of the whole world just how you can expect to be treated by the Portuguese police and I wonder how many other people have fallen foul of this disgraceful treatment?

Leona Cipriano perhaps? How safe is her conviction?

This blind faith that you have after 10 long months that the PJ have a reason for acting like henchmen in a dictatorship and immensely increasing the suffering of two people unnecessarily, but do not have to explain why, or explain themselves because they are hiding behind convenient archaic secrecy laws and miles and miles of red tape. The same red tape that restricts letters being sent and then blames every one else for their own ineptitude.

We do not behave like this in the rest of Europe our police are answerable to us, not the other way around.

Time for Portugal to catch up and it is time that the European Union forced Portugal to catch up.

SassyP said...

Hiya Melbel

Nice to read you as usual. I too find the remarks about Jane and Rosie disgusting and find it shows them up for what they really are.

The class aspect of the two cases is certainly interesting. Why is the fact that Shannon's mum has 7 children by 5 fathers even mentioned? It has nothing to do with the case! We are now supposed to have less sympathy or what?

supertroll said...

Rosiepops,

It was very clear that Viv was throwing her toys out of the window when she wrote this. All because we made fun of her pet page and I noted the reaction of her pal's pets towards her.

It was not nice,I agree, but then she is not that nice either. There was no excuse for alsabella to run with Viv's petty attempt to get back at me. I am glad she saw sense in the end.

As for you being called racist and xenophobic, I think that is a bit rich after reading certain posts re the Mari Luz case. I personally recommend you read Prat's posts. If I was a gypsy, I would be very offended with what she has written.

The secrecy in the Portuguese judiciary system, the laws which allow the McCann's to remain arguido's for so long, and the slow process involved is inhumane.

Hopefully people there will be able to see this because this does not only affect a British couple. It potentially affects the whole of the Portuguese population.

Regards
ST

supertroll said...

Sorry,
posted that one twice.
ST

Rosiepops said...

Supertroll

I know about how racist prat is, yet it was her that decided to make a huge issue out of something I wrote where I had replied to a personal attack and I inadvertently left a question mark off, anyone could see what I meant if they really wanted to, but of course they didn't and they occupied a whole couple days stories all talking about my typo, I mentioned something about Hitler and this is where the insane Felicity got her comment from accusing me of saying they were Nazi lovers, it was nothing of the kind. Yet Prat can make comments like this about Mari-Luz's family and so can Alsa3bellies! I think Prat is just that a prat, I often wonder what her employers would make of her offerings on the internet, I think there would be a few raised eyebrows!

The other day despite the fact that we were sensitive enough to run a separate blog here dedicated to Mari-Luz to keep her out of these daily blogs, we were accused of being insensitive and disrespectful etc, yet they had reams of nonsense posts up on Alsa3bellies blogs and a lot coming from 2345 who was blaming her parents etc.

How insensitive is that? Not only that but when poor little Mari first went missing Alsa3bellies and her gang were all lining up to say how they all thought it was odd and that her parents must be involved and that it was a feud etc and then they have the cheek to act all heartbroken?

I just find them all so crass and hypocritical.

Even if it is proven that Kate and Gerry are innocent and have been telling the truth, I do not think even then that we will read apologies from them, they should all hang their heads in utter shame.

supertroll said...

Rosiepops,

I doubt many will apologise.

Most will simply hop on someone else's tragedy for their daily dose of entertainment.

ST

Rosiepops said...

Supertroll

You have that right! I wonder if any of these people have worked out what they will do with their lives when they no longer have Kate and Gerry to write hate fulled comments about?

Sassy,

I was wondering that too, what the hell has the fact that she has these children got to do with anything? A none year old little girl is missing and it is a terrible time for her family and quite why that was put in the papers amazing! I hope they find her soon, poor little girl.

Right just going to do a few things back later.

melbel said...

Hi again folks
Just swam back from the shops.
I totally agree with all you have said.
We cannot have a system in Europe,if the EEC means anything at all,where there is no level playing field re people's human rights.
It is so easy to hide all your incompetencies,beneath a veil of secrecy,which the Portugese posters claim to be a strengthening of legal rights.
It is not working and is clearly a fall back to when they were a dictatorship.
This family,from what we hear,have never been contacted or had any sort of review or update from the PJ, who say they are considering all options, including abduction.
I read on Als's site, recently, that there can only be one extension for more time, which would be up in Mid April, if I have this right.
What on earth are the POlice going to do ?
Why cannot our POlice jointly review all the evidence, formally.
I think Betty hit the nail on the head, on DE forum, a while ago, in saying that no less than this, would satisfy British or Portugese.I have just spent a few hours frantically searching for a little item, from my childhood, going back 60 years, which meant a lot to me.
I found it, but it was just a possession and a memory.
What these parents are going through, on top of the agony of Madeleine's abduction, is on a scale that thankfully,most of us never touch.
The thought that you need these Portugese Police, but that their system is putting you through hell,must be unbearable.
They are not playing fair, by any stretch of the imagination.

Mandz said...

Sassyp & Jojam!
I think a part of it was her beauty however I also think it was down to the way in which she was taken (abducted from her bed on holiday) and her age “3”. I also think it was down to the way maddie’s parents called on the world media inviting the world into their nightmare of a situation which gripped most people. They had the world wanting to help by this clever use of the media which even the rich and famous could not keep away including the Pope etc. And not to mention the twists and turns this case has taken and the leaks from the PJ have added to this keeping it more high profile than other cases. Newspapers have made stories out of stories out of stories which they have cashed in on.
I think it is very hard to compare both cases because of this however I know which one is receiving a high standard professional investigation.

Rosiepops said...

Hi Mandz,

I tend to agree with you there. I think this was a whole combination of events.
Perhaps if Madeleine's parents thought the Portuguese were doing enough they would not have called Sky News?

Also re the publicity, if Madeleine had been abducted in Britain, the family would have been given a family liaison officer and the detective in charge of the case would have spoken to them and explained what was being done and what was going to be done when and why it was going to be done.
The McCann's were left to their own devices, the had a child abduction and after the initial search the police just went off and said they would be back in the morning, this left the McCann's alone in a foreign country, in strange surroundings, they could not speak the language and they were totally terrified and in a state of panic, so they decided to do what they thought was best and I would have done the same, I would have done anything.

Remember at this point the police would not believe that Madeleine was abducted they thought she had wandered off and would be found or come home.

With regards to the police officers given over to this search, Portugal is a smaller country and so would have fewer police officers, but there was nothing stopping them asking for help from other police forces was there?

Rosiepops said...

I would also like to point out the difference between the gathering of forensic evidence in Portugal to that being gathered in the former children's home in Jersey.

In Portugal on apartment 5a I saw a woman supposedly harvesting forensic evidence, her hair was free and all over the place, she had no mask on and the top of her overall was turned down, she had only one blue glove on and the hand she was using to gather the evidence was actually un-gloved!

Just about every rule in the forensic book of evidence gathering was broken there!

Today in Jersey I saw a forensic technician looking for evidence with a light that detects blood. I could not tell you if this technician was male or female because he/she was completely covered in the SOC overall and they had a mask on and gloves and overshoes.

This is the way forensic evidence is supposed to be gathered, even after so many years, great care was taken as to not miss or contaminate anything.

I hope Portugal was looking in!

Mandz said...

Yes Rosie the chain of events and when you put it like that “left alone” foreign country etc it sends a chill down my spine. I feel so sick and sad for them. They do not deserve this.

Mandz said...

HI Rosie!

Re: Jersey it was reported on the news that detectives have already visited 7 Countries where the ex workers of the “home” now live. Not slow are they.

Rosiepops said...

Mandz

No they are not, it hasn't taken them 10 months to get some damned letters together to come here and talk to a few people has it?

Note to that we are not sweeping under the carpet either. Even if this were politicians involved they would still be questioned and they would also be charged if need be, not let off the hook because they are a politician!

Note too the difference in the professionalism of the investigation between Shannon and Madeleine.
Although some on Alsa3bellies board are still insisting that our government interfered in the Madeleine investigation, the blithering idiots, so damned stupid.

Of course the PJ know fully well that our government did not interfere, it just suits them to use their secrecy law and not deny it, it is just someone else they can blame for their failings isn't it?
They seem to turn this secrecy law thing on and off like a tap.

JANEGT said...

for secrecy law = read 'gagging order'

If we learn anything that must be stopped plus as many here have said, a eec wide or wider than that operation system with alerts starting the moment THE CHILD GOES MISSING. If false alarm, so what!! that's better than the hideous alternative. Complacency and archaic rules stopped this from progressing, NOT the McCanns.

sorry can't stop, cooking.

just popped on for a mo....


back later to speak longer.

hope you are all safe and warm and not in a climate freak zone.....!!!

Hope Mum21 is OK wasn't she in eye of the storm? Oh dear.



;o)))

Rosiepops said...

I have been thinking about this class issue thing today and I can honestly say that it never entered my head it was because the McCann's were who they are and this is why there was so much media interest.
But even if it were, this is not their fault is it?
I think it had more to do with the fact that Madeleine went missing from her bed in a foreign country while on holiday with her parents.

I do not like the way the media have pointed out about Shannon Matthews mother, I think it is totally unnecessary and has absolutely no bearing on the fact that she has gone missing.

Glad to say that the 12 year old girl who went missing two days ago has turned up safe and sound thank God, seems she ran away with a 19 year old boyfriend, he is in trouble!

I wish Shannon would turn up safe and sound, her dear little face, where is she?

I see A's blog is busy speculating on Mari Luz, none of them know what has happened for sure but it hasn't stopped them speculating!

JANEGT said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tinkerbell43 said...

I think the main difference in initial coverage is one had the ingredients of a sensational storyline guaranteed to sell papers. A cute little 4 year old on holiday in a foreign country taken from her bed. The fear of her being taken across borders and helpless parents stuck in a foreign country appealing to the world for help and the world came calling.

Unfortunately in little Shannons case none of these fears were initally as great and there is no worldwide appeal. But I do believe where they have maybe lacked in coverage they have the small comfort and benefit of an experienced police force that are doing everything to find this dear little child.

Rosiepops said...

Hi Tinks,

saw this on A's board today, what do yout hink? I have to say it made me really angry! Where does this rubbish come from?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Wizard said...
Jojam,

Whatever the out come of Shannon’s case it is fundamentally different to that of Madeleine’s. Firstly Shannon was British, lived in Britain and went missing in Britain. Secondly, there has been no government interference in the investigation. Thirdly as far as I know Shannon’s parents, extended family, friends are helping the police with their enquiries and have not hired expensive lawyers to defend themselves and thus prevented their easy access for questioning purposes. Fourthly the parents of Shannon have not put into the public domain wild allegations of international paedophile rings sightings of Shannon in foreign countries etc causing those investigating the case to be led on time wasting wild goose chases. All this makes the police investigation easier, in an operational sense, than the one in Portugal.

Only time will tell if the British police will be able to find out what exactly has happened to Shannon and it a crime was committed who committed it.

10 March 2008 10:24

Anonymous said...

Very good article, and I completely agree with the points made within it. As the writer pointed out, it's almost as if society believes the lower classes bring on their own misfortunes, that somehow living in a lower class automatically makes you a bad or uncaring parent; therefore there is no surprise or not much interest when something goes wrong. Conversely, the reason the public find the McCann case so facinating is that as a society we are often (and often wrongly) under the impression that those who are better off or highly educated somehow love and care for their children more than those who are not, making it all the more shocking when an event stemming from parental neglect or irresponsibility takes place. The public says to itself that this kind of thing just isn't supposed to happen when the parents are middle or upper class, and especially when they're in a position of authority such as a teacher, police officer, or doctor. These are the people (or at least the professions) that we least expect to mess up in this way, and it's both a frightening prospect and a morbid curiosity for the public and media to witness those in our society, whom we see as always responsible, to be anything less than.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hi Rosie,

That post of Wizards is totally off the wall. You can draw no comparisons whatsoever between the the Mathews family and the McCanns.

I cant even be bothered to waste my time picking it to pieces its thats pathetic.

JANEGT said...

anon


You should read Alsabellas;s site where I personally have been accused of child neglect, and a lot more. Class has absolutely nothing to do with closed minds.

There are a lot of those around sadly. I do believe the policing of missing children here is far better than in Portugal. I can't say for Spain, althoug I am lead to believe the 'secrecy' element could be there too. If we learn anyuthing from this case, we learn this must not every happen again. Secrecy is wrong full stop. No if's or but's at all. WRONG.

we must stop it now. In fact why has it not already been stopped - we are over 10 months down the line after all. This complacency needs thrown out.. NOW>

Mandz said...

Anon,

Interesting because who is it that is saying “doctors” should know better that somehow they are better “parents” than the rest??

I disagree that when a child from a lower class goes missing people are not “interested”.

I honestly believe it is because this child aged three was taken from her bed in a foreign Country and the reports that the police did not take this couple seriously about their child being “taken” and police errors etc outraged the public back home (working, middle and upper classes). People from working classes do go on holiday just like the McCann’s perhaps not to the same accommodation however the “same destination” therefore this case affected EVERYONE and it has highlighted to ALL that it could happen to any “child” sleeping in their beds regardless of their class background.

Doby said...

Hello Tinks, Rosie, etc. Been very busy of late and had not much time to post. I slip the odd 'welcome and goodbye' in now and again and that's how things are at the moment. On top of that I've been having probs with my PC. I keep paying my repair man to fix it but 'it keeps coming back like a song' (Ask you parents or grandparents to sing it to you! Anyhow,just been reading a couple of your posts and Tinks you are right, Wizards post does not deserve an answer, and as for you Rosie, can't critisize your posts in any way as they always make good sense to me.

Mandz said...

I also find it strange that we have Portuguese posters who have created a “justice for maddie” blog and sit there day in day out and compare.. slate “maddie publicity” to other children like Mari & Shannon however they NEVER ONCE MENTION THE CHILDREN STILL MISSING FROM THEIR COUNTRY????? Tut Tut...

Mandz said...

Hi & Bye Doby!

Nice to see you and keep posting when you can!

Rosiepops said...

Anon

So what are you saying that the McCann's somehow killed or were responsible for her death? Or are you saying they were responsible because they left the children alone?

I can understand what you are saying re that we expect a higher standard of care from them because in effect they should know better etc.
But I believe people are not infallible no matter what their social standing and we are all apt to make mistakes in child rearing.

I do not see why the parentage of Shannon's poor mother should be news fodder to titillate the people that want to criticize her.

I do not see why people have to criticize the McCann's because they are the status they are, they are not immune from making a mistake and neither are the rest of us.

I think this concentration of their social status is as insulting as the concentration on Shannon's mum and totally unnecessary.

Also I would like to say regarding Wizard's little theory, the relatives of Shannon would have been investigated as a matter of course and the police have made a statement and said that it was normal procedure.

JANEGT said...

mandz

you are so right. The children have been 'lost ' in this blame culture and more than that, blame built on fantasy plots, decrying any witnesses, stating 'already dead' , when no proof at all, and the worst, the McCanns HAVE NOT BEEN CHARGED AT ALL, neither has Murat, but all 3 are suspect. But they keep saying Kate is the 'prime suspect'. can't get one prime out of 3 equal arguidos...Nonsense. This rumour hate mill has now been seen to be very very dangerous indeed.

Good policing, no matter what country or class is the prerequisite. Followed by an HONEST register of abusers, locations and a PREDETERMINED FAST SYSTEM in finding any reported 'lost' child. All good and well if the child is found, no harm done. If not, well think of the horrible outcome if not.......


we do not need to look far.

Little Mari Luz was last seen running after 2 older girls, saying wait for me..... No news on who these girls were....why not? In broad daylight at a kiosk/shop with customers. I don't believe it.

Also libellous wild theories on blogs have no bearing on the topic.

It has to stop.

More than that, those who did this on blogs, forums, etc and the moderator/s must be held accountable for this spiteful unsupportable venom if instigated proveably by their blog members. .... it is so easy to do. Copies are here for al to see.

Or...are they too stupid to realise that what they say has repercussions?

Doby. said...

Hiya Mandz, absolutely, agree with your every word. Abductors,who to my knowledge must all be Paedo's do not discriminate between family classes, they see an oportunity to snatch a child, any child, and as is so very often the case it's when the parents backs are turned. Could as in the recent case of Mari Luz be some little child running to a sweet shop, a child returning from from school or on a beach even. I've heard one of the most dagerous of places for children is Disneyworld or Land. Let's face it, who would interfere is they see an 'unruly, crying child' being dragged out of Disney world, one would assume the child is either very tired or wants to stay a little longer in the worlds largest entertainment centre. All we can hope is that in future parents are more vigilant following the worldwide publicity follwing Madeleines disappearance, and now these other children.

JANEGT said...

doby

No all child abductors are paedos at all.

Majority yes, perhaps, but not all. Some are blackmailers. Mari Luz was not sexually abused either, not paedophile there, so no I have to disagree ith your point there.

Anonymous said...

Hi mandz and thank you for your reply to my post. I personally don't agree that people in positions of trust and authority should know better, but I do believe it is a very commonplace perception amoungst society in general that we expect more from them. We have to expect more because in my opinion we otherwise would not be able to so readily trust people in these types of professions with our very lives and safety as we do.

I do often wonder what public/media perception would have been toward a lower class/non-professional couple or a single parent who had lost a child in such a manner. I tend to believe, based on how I think society sees things, that there sadly wouldn't have been as much interest. I truly believe that public and media interest in a missing child case is unfortunately often determined by things like class, attractiveness, wealth, etc. I'm not sure why our society sees it this way, but I believe it always has been, and likely always will be.

Anonymous said...

Pathetic and off the wall Tinkerbell43 - time will tell.

Regards Wizard

Rosiepops said...

Doby and Mandz

I couldn't agree more.

The fact is that children are being taken and it only takes a moment and they are gone, it is extremely frightening, yet people are in my opinion complacent.

I really think that they want to believe the worse of the McCann's because to them it is the lesser of two evils. If you believe that Madeleine was abducted from her bed where she should have been safe then this makes us feel very insecure where our own children/grandchildren/siblings/nieces/nephews etc are concerned, it forces us to accept that our children are not safe and we do not want to believe this.

JANEGT said...

If anyone erroneously feels 'middle class doctors' get preferential treatment go to A's blog now. Lovely photo of the McCanns, she calls i

even they they had 'red boozy noses', ?????

and that 'nothing changes'......

How can this vitriolic lie- fest be allowed? No wonder she is called Alsalies, Alsalibellous, Alsa3 or more bellies, Alsash*te. These are far too complimentary in my view.

This is outrageous for a so self called intelligent person to do. Thus I say she is not at all, intelligent. in any way shape nor form.

Black, white, udders, comes to mind.

Anonymous said...

Hi Rosiepops, and thanks also for your reply.

I honestly don't have an opinion about whether or not the McCanns were involved (I'll let the police determine that), but rather I was commenting on society's view in cases such as this with regards to classes, attractiveness and weath. My reply to mandz might clarify my position on the public's/media's perception. I know that in the US there is big public perception that white missing children get far more airplay than non-white missing children, and I would sadly have to say I also agree with that. It's wrong, and unfair.

I completely agree with you on the rest of your post. Why do we need to know the intimate details of a person's life in cases such as this? The media is very manipulative, and they are capable of twisting what they write in such a way so as to get the maximum reaction out of people I believe. They allow us to hear and/or read as much or as little about a story as they choose, and with the angle they want it to have. Really makes you wonder about freedom of press, doesn't it?

I have to go, but I'm hoping I can come back later and sign myself up properly!

Rosiepops said...

Jane

I know that reports have said she wasn't sexually abused thank God for this and for her parents, it must be hard enough to go through what they are going through, without the added knowledge of this.

But that leaves the question of why she was taken? There has to be a reason, people do not just take children without a reason, when the find this person and do a background check perhaps more will be revealed then. Hopefully it will anyway, but I understand that Spain has the same kind of secrecy laws as Portugal?!
At least the police will have clues to work with, I read that they said she had died before being put in the water, so there will be a crime scene somewhere. Let's hope they find it, DNA and Forensics may give them some clues as to where to start looking. grass, straw, fibres, soil etc all of this can give clues as to where this poor little child was before they callously dumped her in the water.
I wonder how the person that did this thought that this was a good idea?

Rosiepops said...

Wizard

Time will tell of this you are correct, but I do not think that it is going to tell you what you expect it to.

Rosiepops said...

Anon

you are correct of course white middle class children going missing do get more coverage that non white children.

But what about children of middle class black parents? Do they get more or less coverage?

I know this is very wrong and at the end of the day we are force fed stuff that the media want us to hear about and they can and do slant things.

JANEGT said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
JANEGT said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Jane you seem completely out of it. Your post on the McCanns "red boozy noses" is totally out of line! Shame on you!

Marla

Doby said...

JANEGT.
No of course not every case of abduction is by Paedophiles and I stand corrected on that point (again)however, according to your assertion soem are 'blackmailers' of children. Perhaps then you would kindly inform me of at least 'ONE' Child kidnapping for ransom. I seem to recall one or perhaps two cases of young adults, the children of very wealthy parents being kidnapped for ransom, there is one in Stafford I believe who was imprisoned down a Manhole and accidentally hanged when she slipped off a narrow ledge. The Kinapper had left her tied up and with a rope around her neck! Other than that, no, sorry but can't think of any case of a "Todler" or very young child being kidnapped for Ransom?

Mandz said...

Anon,

I think it is hard to compare because the events the McCann took were “unique.” I have never seen anything like it therefore who knows what the public reaction would have been if the parents were working class?
You may be right with regards to the media public interest however look at Jamie Bulgar case that was very high up in the media and maybe more so because it was a rare thing “children” who committed the crime. Same with Maddie taken from her bed, age, location, foreign Country and let’s face it this affects all parents.


Good night all....

supertroll said...

JanetGt,

Take no notice.
Its probably some angry soul from the vile blog.

Thay have been taking some abuse recently.

Viv will not give me the name of the investigating officer because she does not want to compromise the investigation. LOL

Maybe she sent her complaint via rogatory letters.

ST

JANEGT said...

ROSIEPOPS

I WONDER WHY WE HAVE NOT HEARD FURTHER ABOUT THE 2 OLDER GIRS MARI LUZ CORTES LAST WAS CHASING AFTER, ASKING THEM TO ''WAIT FOR HER''. DID SHE GO WITH THEM? WHO ARE THEY? DID THEY ALL GO AWAY TOGETHER? DID THEY GO TOWARDS THE RIVER? ooops caps lock again, sorry.

Just seems odd these 2 girls have not had their say at any time since, and no papers or tv programmes seem to have located them to give their view of events. Who is the person who reported this, and what is their viewpoint on it? It is so important to know if she left with these girls or if she was ignored and left to go back home all on her own.

It needs expansion.

I also read the Spanish Police do also have a level of 'secrecy' on their investigations. Is it the same as the Portuguese system? Why have the Spanish newspapers not reported the Kiosk/shop owner's views, nor the 2 girls' or their families' views? Seems odd to me. Was Mari Luz seen going with the girls, say, towards the river at all? If not, in what direction? Towards her home or not? Why no details on this.

helenm said...

Hi all, Rosie when did we start letting anons post again? IMO if posters had to have a google account to post this would hopefully cut down on these abusive posters only out to cause trouble.

Jane try to just walk on by, I know it must be hard as you seem to have been the focus of these 'nasties' along with Rosie for some time now. IGNORE them,

Rosiepops said...

Jane

I just went to have a look at the photo on A's but I cannot find it, did you mean there was a photo of them which looked like they had red boozy noses or was that what someone over there had said?

JANEGT said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rosiepops said...

Night Mandz

See you tomorrow.

JANEGT said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rosiepops said...

Hi Helen

We started yesterday because it was blocking a couple of the regulars out.
I am going to turn Google on again.

Marla (Anon)

I hope you can get a Google account and join us, it is straight forward do not want to block you out, but when we have quite a few Anons posting at once it is hard to know who is who and some become really abusive, so I hope you understand. Thanks

Dobywallah said...

Rosie, I have to go shortly but having read "Anonimous" posts his style of writing reminds me of that American/English guy/doll, who was always on HYS, can't recall his/her name, suspect it was a bloke though. Very no-all type for ever boasting about his Race horses and private yatch's. I'm sure you'll remember who I'm talking about? I'm pretty hopeless on names I'm afraid!

alsabella said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rosiepops said...

Doby

I can't recall, but I have turned Google Accounts only on again, I hat to do this but I am not going to have this board disrupted and our posters harassed like this.

JANEGT said...

It was a large photo of Kate and Gerry with red noses, and tans....they seemed at a wedding, in formal dress, and the comment was they were clearly always preferring the booze to children or anything else. It was there minutes' ago.

I posted here immediately after seeing it I was so angry. I posted on it being wrong also .....not that it will be published. No doubt. Even though I posted as not 'anon'... I feel the 'anon' here - pulled it, then seeing my comment, has made it out to be ''me'' saying what they said, rather than me sticking up for it being abusive to the McCanns clearly bc.....before children. It was a lovely photo.

Supertroll

Yes, I thought you would not get a direct answer as to precisely which police force or other agency'agencies you were 'reported' to. None is my view. She couldn't, wouldn't dare as she would be the one taken away. No doubt about it at all.

Hell mend them.

SassyP said...

Hiya

How's it going?

Rosiepops said...

I do not understand why someone calling themselves Alsabella signs off as Marla and then quickly deletes the post!

Jane please do not rise to it, I have turned Google Account only on again, but I am afraid one of the people it will block out will be China.

China

If you are reading this please get a Google account and join us. xxx

JANEGT said...

marla, rosiepops, et al

the photo is still there now,
on vile's site,
my post clearly objecting to it is not!!!
ha ha what a surprise. go and look. Sick.

and a stupid poster calls ME NAMES FOR STICKING UP FOR THE ABUSE HANDED OUT....WHAT AN IDIOT.

Dobywallah said...

Well Ladies, nice chatting to you if only briefly but have a family and home to run. Bye for now. Doby. X

JANEGT said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rosiepops said...

Hi Sassy

Just had an Anon on, started off reasonably then just turned on Jane, but do not know if it was this one Anon or another.

But have turned Google on again anyway.


We just had a poster posting under the name Alsabella and signing off as Marla, I have read the post...Odd! the must have had a Google account so this was either Alsabella or was someone trying to cause trouble and forgot to click on Anonymous when posting.

I am wondering if some people are having internet connection problems because of the weather!

Rosiepops said...

Doby

Bye see you tomorrow hopefully. take care xxx

JANEGT said...

To be serious for a mo, I did email Chinadoll, but don't know if she knows how to get a google account? I did try to explain.

That is why I was surprised at the anon comments tonight, as I thought that was a thing of the past. ( 'thing' being the operative word. )

;o)))

SassyP said...

Hiya Rosie

These stirring anons are annoying. Hope Elaine and Chinadoll can sort out Google accounts.

SassyP said...

Hiya Jane

They are all talking junk just to wind you up - if you freak out they'll be patting each other on the back for a job well done.

Don't react and at some point the morons from hell who have no lives themselves will give up.

SassyP said...

Bye Doby - that was short and sweet! (My fault - I was working!)

Rosiepops said...

Jane

I cant see it, but Vile's site is so untidy it is hard to see anything, it is totally disorganised and everything is all over the place, so I am not surprised I can't find it.

helenm said...

Rosie, iv'e just seen it you need to go on the first article under blogs. the article pertaining to the cadaver dogs.

tulip said...

I completely agree with most of this blog's sentiments (have been a lurker since day one on the DE) but thought I'd quickly point out to Jane that the awful 'red nose' comments that I saw were on Viv's blog. I don't think Alsabella has pictures.

helenm said...

Sassyp if I can suss out how to open google account ANYONE can. The fact that you have to put in your e mail address most propbably puts people off.

Rosiepops said...

thanks Helen x

Wizard said...

In your opinion Rosiepops.

Regards.

helenm said...

PROPBABLY!!! told you Jane not to give me such a big glass!!lol

SassyP said...

Hiya Tulip

Glad you could join us!

Rosiepops said...

OK I have seen it and I think it is actually quite a nice photo of them and I have sen it before and I think Felicity has been playing around with this photo.
Even if she wasn't I cant see anything wrong with it and I think that Felicity really needs to go and get herself checked out.

SassyP said...

HelenM

You're right - it's really easy to get a google ID. It doesn't mean you keep getting junk from Google either. It's a bit nothing really. After all, you can always open up a throwaway yahoo or hotmail mail address and use that one for here.

Rosiepops said...

Wizard

not only my opinion thanks.

Rosiepops said...

Hi tulip

i think it was a misunderstanding, we tend to get different Anons posting and then they get muddled, one says something and the other gets the blame for it.

It wasn't Jane that said about the red noses it was written by Viv/Felicity under the photo, Jane was actually trying to defend the McCann's and posted on the vile ones site, but of course it got deleted.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Evening All, how goes it ?

tulip said...

Thanks Sassy P. I've been teetering on the brink for a while now as I dislike a lot of what is happening on these blogs and felt I preferred to be out of the ring. But what the heck. Viv is beyond help but I can't see why people like Claudia have such terrifying reserves of bitterness. She's an educated young woman but being bright isn't enough.

My position is that I believe that the McCanns are more likely than not innocent. But since life is often stranger than fiction nothing can be ruled out, especially as nearly all opinions in this case are necessarily guesswork.

Simply put, I'd rather be proved wrong (as I may be) and know I defended the Mc Canns'right to be presumed innocent. If I am wrong, then I will be guilty of nothing more than ... being wrong. I'd hate to have abusive comments above my name, even if I am anonymous.

helenm said...

Purlease Sassy, don't confuse me! throwaway yahoo's, are they the same as paper nicks?

tulip said...

Rosiepops

Yes I know it was Viv's doing -- hardly Jane's. I was just pointing out that (as far as I could see) on this occasion it was not Alsabella's blog as Jane seemed to think. That may be why they attacked her -- any slip could be seen by them as a chink in the armour!!

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hi Tulip,

Nice to see a new poster. Welcome to our Blog. Look forward to hearing your views.

Mum21 said...

Hi Everyone.
Rosie..this person who signed in as Alsabella...but signed off as Marla..did she come on as a registered blogger?
Because if she did then it was Alsabella and she forgot to click the anonymous button.

Rosiepops said...

Supertroll

Felicity doesn't want to compromise the investigation? OMG that is a good one, what investigation? the one in La la land where she lives?

Why is it compromising the investigation if she gives you the name of the police man/woman dealing with it (I wouldn't go as far as calling it an investigation lol) I would have thought they would be grateful to you for getting in touch, save them a bit of work!

Hey perhaps they are getting some rogatory letters and are coming out to you in Spain?

Have you put the posts of yours Felicity deleted, up on your site? Show how unreasonable she is being.

helenm said...

Hi Mum21 , Tinks
Thought you must have been busy battening down.

SassyP said...

Hiya Mum and Tinks!

Mum21 said...

Hi Helen. We still have the worst to come tonight. From Chichester harbour to Selsey Bill (i live between the two) are under severe flood warnings tonight. Last night was bad enough...so I hope they are wrong for tonight.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hiya Helen,

Got off lightly, just lost some trellis and wheelie bin went AWOL, but other than that its relatively calm at the mo!

JANEGT said...

YYYAAAHOOOOO HELEN ARE YOU HERE???

Loved that 'throwaway' comment re yyyaaahoooo.

I just got googled off, so had to get new password etc again for some reason. Don't understand it as it was mid post. Someone is telling me to shut up, so I will. It could be google though as it has cut folks off a couple of times lately.

Hi tulip

Please if you are ''teetering on the brink'' as you aptly put it - join us - as we have for 10 months now = me more than most it seems.

Evidently.

Mum21 said...

Hi Tinks. Are you on the south coast too?

JANEGT said...

hi Mum21 and tinkerbell

Glad you are braving your storms. We haven't any just sleet and wind. Not too bad ut only 1 degree so cold.

It seems the south/south west is getting the brunt of it. Take care.

Wizard said...

Your welcome Rosipops

tulip said...

Thanks Tinks. Not sure whether there is anything new that I can contribute. I think that the McCann's were extraordinarily stupid to believe their kids were safe, and there is NO way I could have done it, but if there was an abduction I fail to see how attacking them incessantly does anyone any good (except the posters maybe) and can do a whole lot of harm.

Regarding media coverage I think we have to be realistic. Newpaper readers will always be more interested in things that happen to people with whom they can in some way identify and to survive in the circulation wars papers have to keep them happy.

People should of course care equally about AIDS orphans, Irag victimes, council estate kids and doctors' children but we are all to some degree selfish.

I beleive it's very important to fly the flag for the family who are obviously suffering. That's why I've decided to come out!

Mari Luz is heart-breaking.

Mum21 said...

Hi Sassy. I am late coming on tonight. Our power is dodgy here today. The lights keep flickering on and off. Many in our area have been without power all day.
But I just had to pop on here to see how you are all doing.

Rosiepops said...

Mum

you are right I just checked and it was Alsabella I clicked on the profile in my email notification and it took me straight to her profile and The World According To Alsabella

well well well. Why couldn't she just post under her own ID like I do if I go on her site?

chinadoll said...

.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hi Mum,

Yes much further south than you though I think. Geography is not my strong point! I'm near Southend.

SassyP said...

China!

You managed it - nice one!

SassyP said...

Mum21

Glad you did!

chinadoll said...

Hey,

I'm on, I'm an official blogger

and I must be good, as there is a dustbin under my name - does everyone get one of these?

SassyP said...

Rosie

What? We have Alsabella posting here under a different name?

Mum21 said...

Tinks..Geography is not my strong point either. I know of Southend...but not sure which direction it is in though. te he he

helenm said...

Well done China doll. They tell me that evryone has a bin, but only you can see yours!!!! I.m not so sure, I think it's a hint that that is where we'll end up if we don't behave!!

tulip said...

I found it easy-peasy to get on to the blog. I see I also have a bin. Is it for new posters to be chucked into if they fail to please?

Mum21 said...

Rosie. Surely it is not possible to sign in as Alsabella if you are not her.
I bet she forgot to go anonymous and that is why she quickly deleted her posts.

Rosiepops said...

Everyone

The post at 22.51 is NOT me! No avatar see?

chinadoll said...

Well, thanks for that Helen.

I am not the misbehaving type, not among friends.

SassyP said...

Chinadoll!

Yup! It means you can delete your own comment if you change your mind about posting it or realise you have made a faux pas grand magnitude!

helenm said...

Methinks we have an imposter in our midst.

Mum21 said...

I think we have a bogus rosiepops on here. It says she only joined blogger in March.

Rosiepops said...

OK we have a comedian and I am now running an IP check, it is easy to do, I learend how to do it the other day will post the site address so the comedian knows I am not mucking about.

chinadoll said...

t Uil ip,

Is that you Uil, from the DX?

Apologies if I am mistaken.

No harm meant.

dianeh said...

Hi Everyone.

Just a comment on Mari Luz. The autopsy results have not been relesased, therefore we dont know how long she had been in the water, or what happened to her.

My translation of Spanish article I think says cause of death not determined (or not released, not sure exactly).

Mum21 said...

Go for it Rosie. We can at least see then where this imposter comes from.

chinadoll said...

Some sick people will do anything to contribute in a disruptive manner, to this blog.

SassyP said...

Yup Rosie,

we can also trace the IP address.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Well good for you Tulip. After what this poor family have been subjected to its nice to see you take the plunge and come out in support.

There is not much new to discuss at the moment, but the PJ's 3 month extension is up soon, I think thats why these latest interviews are imminent, its just a case of tieing up their lose ends before if I understand rightly they have to reveal their evidence.

tulip said...

Oh dear barely here for ten minutes and I'm assumed to be an imposter!

I am NOT Uil or anyone who has ever posted before on ANYTHING. Promise! No offence taken though do I sound Dutch??

helenm said...

China doll are you sure you don't work for the PJ? (not meant as an insult by the way)

Rosiepops said...

Mum

I actually know it was Alsabella and I think the impostor is Alsabella too.

she is panicking.

the reason why I know it is Alsabella is because each time one of you posts I am notified by email and I can read the post from my email address and I can also click on the name, this I did 'ALSABELLA' and I was taken straight to her Google profile and also access to 'The World of Alsabella' this is how I know it was her for definite.

So Alsabella is a liar, she posts as Anonymous and signs as Marla pretending to be someone else, not too smart really is she?

Rosiepops said...

By the way the IP check is almost cmpleted

JANEGT said...

hi chinadoll wysiwyg

your first post complete silence lovely liked that.

'chinadoll says'






ha ha ha ha ha no I like you full volume, noisy and wysiwyg.not to mention swymamwys too. good on you.

don't worry, you won't get a lot of spam etc from google. they just boot you off now and again. I have 3 times today suddenly been 'exitted'. huh. cheek. ;o)))

nice to see you on. I loved your posts re Viv's animal, parrot, can you IMAGINE the language that must come out that poor parrot's mouth???**** **** *** ****!!!!

..and that's just good morning.....

SassyP said...

Tulip

It's not a case of being an imposter! Some people come from the DX and have a different name from before for whatever reason.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Helenm, not everyone has a bin at the moment, mines gone AWOL :0)

chinadoll said...

Sorry Tulip,

I was really hoping it was Uil from the old DX site - anyone here will tell you, that he had such flair and a certain way of writing.

Believe me, it was a compliment.

Mum21 said...

Rosie. She is more than a liar.
And to think she had the nerve yesterday to call us hags.

tulip said...

Sassy I know but I don't WANT to be Uil, thanks! I'm a brand-new, freshly-minted poster.

helenm said...

Tinks that because you have proved yourself and don't talk rubbish!

chinadoll said...

HelenM -OF COURSE I WORK FOR THE PJ

I belong to the pyjama club.

Mum21 said...

Helen. I still have a bin....so does that mean I do still talk rubbish? te he he

SassyP said...

Tulip

Great!

Rosiepops said...

Alsabella is going to have to watch her blog 24 hours a day now because she is going to be scared I will post on there.

Claudia is going to be disappointed, she was so busy telling everyone today that they never come over here ever, they don't need to.

more lies!

Rosiepops said...

Tinks

Did you check it out in your email?

Tinkerbell43 said...

Well blow me down, thats not a Chinadoll I spot on the horizon is it!

Took your time, where you bin ;-)

chinadoll said...

Janegt,

Thank you for the welcome.

Sorry about the initial silence.
I've been moaning to you know who about the google account and he kept saying it was easy and I kept disagreeing and reminding him that I have followed that avenue and did not get in.
Well, he got a bit cheesed off about it and did it in my absence. I thought he might have done something wrong, so it was kind of a silent test.

I'm here now, if I don't get lost, that is lol

SeaWitch said...

Good evening ladies,

Class, what difference does it make?.

The McCanns have a fund, an official spokesman, and friends in high places. For Madeleine McCann, millions of words have been written; words of love, words of support, words of pity, words of hope, words of condemnation for her parents, and words of despair, yet what is the outcome?

Ten months on, still no-one knows where to find her.

For Shannon Matthews and her family, there is no fund, no media-savvy PR rep, and no millionaire benefactors offering huge rewards. Few trouble to frame their thoughts into prose. Everyone knows she is missing, but most people are keeping a respectful distance, trusting the Police to do everything in their power to find her. The public seems to acknowledge that, whilst they are invited to remain vigilant to potential sightings of this little girl, or provide, if they have it, information that will help to solve the mystery of her disappearance……… the rest is none of their damn business.

I think Karen Matthews has been shown far more respect than Kate McCann. Nobody is trying to bring her lower than she is already; nobody is accusing her, nobody is analysing every word she speaks, every gesture, every motive. Nobody is claiming to “know” what happened to her child, and nobody is claiming to love her daughter more than she does.

In both instances, the families are tainted with the suspicion that someone close to the child may be responsible for her disappearance. In Madeleine’s case, this leads people to grandstand and theorise about ever more wild scenarios, or repeat the same accusations over and over in order to achieve…….what, exactly?

However, in Shannon’s case, people are content to wait for the professionals to do their jobs without feeling the need to tear into the family on a daily basis without mercy, remorse or restraint.

Is that in spite of the fact that she is working class, or because of it?

Sadly, I think it has more to do with looks than class. The constant refrain “this beautiful child”, echoes through the media and across the forums when referring to Madeleine. She was a beautiful child, with a striking mother; Shannon is plain, with a chavvy-looking ma. Not good copy. Just like in fairytales, the princess has to be beautiful or nobody will care about her.

When all’s said and done, though, two little girls remain missing, possibly, or even probably, dead.

So what advantage has class afforded, either way?

Tinkerbell43 said...

Yes Rosie I did. I thought at the time, bloody hell thats 2 we've had the displeasure of today what with Vile's early hours posts and then when I opened it, it was signed by Marla! Duh!

SassyP said...

SeaWitch

The advantage or disadvantage of a class has helped neither girl as you say, but it may have made the traumatic time the parents are going through worse or better!

chinadoll said...

Thanks Tinks,

Yes, I've bin on the missing list. lol

helenm said...

Rosie, have you posted in last 15 mins on Alsabella's site? She has posted to you 'like I care' at 11.03

SassyP said...

Falling asleep here, so I'm off. Hope your houses don't do a Wizard of Oz.
xxx

Rosiepops said...

Right I have the IP address of the impostor.

Tinkerbell43 said...

See ya Sass.

Mum21 said...

Rosie. Are you going to give us the IP Address?

dianeh said...

Hi Seawitch

I agree with you and would also like to add that from an Aussie viewpoint, we dont even know about Shannon from our own news. I think the real difference between between Shannon and Madeleine is not class but where the crime occurred. On holidays abroad as opposed to in own neighbourhood. Madeleine's story has international appeal/interest. Madeleine was a big story, even before the McCanns had PR help.

We have had missing children before but the only one that ever took on any thing approaching the coverage of Madeleine was Azaria Chamberlain and the dingo. Once again, international appeal. It was covered and discussed around the world, and this was long before there was an internet.

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