Tuesday, 25 March 2008

Misplaced trust led to Madeleine's betrayal

This article goes on from that which we were discussing yesterday, thanks Tinks.

Terrible things happen, but we trust they are not going to happen to us.
That is one of the reasons why we continue to go out in the world with hope and confidence, and to encourage our children, and others, to do the same. In the dark times, it seems foolish and utterly absurd that we do. Yet it remains an unquenchable part of human nature to trust in the good disposition of others, to rely on their sense of morality and tacit concern. It is this web of mutual reliance and good citizenship that keeps the civilised world turning; the belief in the comfort of strangers and the inherent goodness of others are the hem stitches in the fabric of society.


We trust that the teachers taking their pupils on a canoeing trip will return home without drowning half their charges. We trust that the coach driver won't take the wet bend at 80mph because he is running late, or that the Roman Catholic priest won't sleep with the vulnerable immigrant. We trust that the pilot isn't drunk, the doctor is not distracted and that the caretaker in charge of the school is not Ian Huntley. But somehow we do it again and again; we make a leap of faith that is against rational calculation, but is part of the warmth of humanity, the excitement of life. We are idiots, of course. For there is an increasing chance these days that something awful will happen, and the brittle threads of our trust will be snapped, like the bars on a cage of spun sugar.

Gerry and Kate McCann had every reason to trust that their daughter Madeleine would be safe in their holiday complex. They chose their resort with care, they spent wisely. Then when the unthinkable happened, and their three-year-old daughter was snatched from her bed and spirited away into the warm night, as seems increasingly likely, they had every reason to trust that the Portuguese police would do everything to help bring her back to safety.

Yet with the best will in the world, it is becoming obvious that this has not happened. Even if one factors in cultural differences and the inexplicable burden of the Portuguese secrecy of justice law, which prohibits even the parents of the missing being given details of evidence collected, it is clear that the police operation has been flawed and flat-footed from the start.

I should point out that I write this as the daughter, sister and niece of policemen. So I'm not predisposed to blame the cops for everything. Nevertheless, there seems to have been unforgivable lapses of protocol and procedure in this case, and there have been times when it has seemed that the local police can't be trusted to dish out a parking ticket properly, let alone find a child on the southern tip of Europe.

All through the long, dread days since Madeleine disappeared, it seemed that the silence of the Portuguese sleuths was because they had definite leads, a game plan, perhaps even a lonely house surrounded by surveillance teams armed to the teeth.

Yet as time moves on, this appears not to be the case. At a belated and chaotic press conference on Monday, the police were, if anything, belligerent instead of supportive, with an uncomfortable whisper of southern Mediterranean machismo sweeping through their statements and body language. "We are not magicians," said Olegario Sousa, the officer leading the investigation. No, senhor, but perhaps you are clowns instead.

Sousa's insensitive remark followed days of chaos. Until yesterday morning, news crews were filing reports uncomfortably close to the McCanns' apartment, further tainting a crime scene that had already been catastrophically contaminated. Police who were supposed to be patrolling the Portuguese/Spanish border exits were filmed taking refuge from the rain in their squad cars, while ignoring the vans with blacked out windows, lorries and legions of cars that hurtled past.

And what privacy law prevented authorities from papering the entire Algarve with posters of Madeleine, or releasing important details, such as the pyjamas she was last seen in, not to mention properly co-ordinating the well-meaning but haphazard public search in the days following the child's disappearance?

The McCanns trusted the police to do all they could in the search for their daughter, while it is their agony that she trusted them to keep her safe. As vigils and prayer meetings are held in her honour, a long shadow is cast over the summer to come, and on millions of forthcoming family holidays. We hope for the best, but fear the worst, as various reports describe suspects to be a dark-skinned man, a British man, a man with a bald spot. Who can we trust now, on either side of the law?

The Telegraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2007/05/09/do0904.xml

250 comments:

1 – 200 of 250   Newer›   Newest»
dianeh said...

And nothing has really changed has it?

And I would like to highlight that the author of this article has police connections in her immediate family. So police bashing is most likely not part of her make up.

Well said.

calcite51 said...

No, diane - nothing has changed. I for one, will never, ever understand how an investigation for a missing child could have been so sloppily done.

We can all nitpick about the neglect factors until the cows come home - the end result, there is a child missing. That's the bottom line. And for all those perfect parents that know where your child is every minute of the day, I applaud you.

I remember when my child was a toddler and I lost her in a shopping centre.

It was the biggest nightmare of my life - I was hysterical - found her about 10 minutes - she wasn't in the toy store or the pet store but in the china store - I could NOT believe that was where she ended up and thank goodness there was no broken china.

dianeh said...

Calcite

I know what you mean. When we were away on holidays about this time last year, we were packing to come home. We were staying in a motel. As we have an awful lot of stuff with two toddlers, it takes ages to pack the car and multiple trips in and out of the unit. My partner put my little girl (she was 2 1/2 at the time) on a seat outside of the unit and told her to stay and then came back inside the unit. I was changing the baby and didnt know that he hadnt brought her back in. After a couple of minutes I asked where she was, he said out on the seat, so I threw him the baby and ran outside. I couldnt see her. Luckily we were back off the road, and I didnt think she could have got there so quick. I was calling for her, and getting hysterical. And she didnt answer. Panic, panic and more panic. I can imagine how Kate felt when she realized Madeleine was missing because I really thought my daughter was gone. I felt physically ill.

After a couple of minutes (which seemed like an hour) the lady staying in a unit 3 doors up said, she is hiding behind the car and pointed to a car a bit further down. The lady had been watching her, after she noticed my partner had told her to sit on the seat. She thankfully thought how stupid is that, just like a man and kept an eye on my daughter.

So yes, I know blind panic and it did drive home to my partner how careful you have to be with children.

But what if it wasnt a caring woman watching her but a paedophile, or a child trafficker. They could have easily taken her in the couple of minutes it took me to realise she was gone. I had nightmares over that for months.

dianeh said...

I try so hard to be a good parent. But it doesnt always work out the way I want.

When my daughter was 12 months old, she had an operation and becuase the registrar in the ICU at the Royal Childrens Hospital was up himself, he sent her home without any medication. Her throat swelled up and caused a stridor (like a snore). But since she has a stridor quite often, I didnt realise it was dangerous, or that this was different to the rest of the time. But something twigged and I rang our specialist who made me put the phone near my daughter. The specialist cracked it and the ambulance and insisted they come immediately.

Apparently, my daughter's throat was slowly swelling shut and at any time her breathing could have been cut off completely. Yet, she was happy and playing, no discomfort whatsoever. Even the ambulance driver said I was right to call the ambulance straight away. Only thing was, I didnt, I didnt realise just how serious it was. But at least I had the sense to ring the specialist.

I felt like the worst mother in the world.

calcite51 said...

Diane - Thank goodness, an angel was sent to look after your little girl. Your partner must have felt so bad...

People are really twisting stories around - the McCanns, the GOA mom who is under protective custody (my understanding is that she left her with the mother of the 25 year old man - not the 25 year old man as some will have us believe), and Mari Luis, and now the 10 year old who went missing for a short while but was luckily found.

All I've ever said, "There but for the grace of God, go I."

calcite51 said...

I keep thinking back to the beginning of this case, when people were starting to question the PJ's procedures. The McCanns supported the PJ's. I've often sensed that the McCanns were having reservations but didn't dare voice it as it might impede the search for Madeleine. This is actually my personal feeling.

calcite51 said...

Okay, signing off - it's my bedtime and I am tired tonight.

Pleasant dreams, all.

dianeh said...

Calcite

I believe you are spot on about the McCanns and the PJ. My mum made a disparaging comment about the PJ back in the first couple of weeks, specifically about the lack of info about the abduction in the public arena and comparing it to some of our high profile abduction caes, like Daniel Morcombe (still missing and still in the news periodiclly with reenactments, video etc etc). And why were the McCanns putting up with it. My answer to Mum was that they have no choice. If they criticise the PJ publicly, then they will have no chance of finding Madeleine. As it turned out, there was no hope of the PJ finding Madeleine either.

It must have been a horrible thing as a parent to see your beautiful child gone and the people who are meant to be looking for her, just not going about it in a way that the McCanns (or any Brit or Aussie or American etc) could understand. Not doing everything they could. As the article says, why did the secrecy laws prevent the issuing of posters and descriptions etc, all of the usual things that our countries do. How do you find a child without the help of the public?

At the very least, Portugal needs to take a good hard look at how they deal with missing children cases and come up with a set of procedures that are to be carried out. If the secrecy laws dont work in favour of the children, then get them changed for missing children cases. There is much they could do for better outcomes in the future.

But the most important thing is to keep looking.

Mandz said...

Morning all,

This is exactly what we were discussing yesterday. The police FAILED MADDIE MCCANN AGED 3 YEARS when she needed them and her family. Away back right at the beginning the McCann’s were critical of the police “acting too slow” Gerry stated “to little to late” and how right he was and as this whole “tragedy” unfolded I saw exactlt what he meant. After that he said in the media we just want to move on and push this investigation to look for Maddie she is the important one.
Everything that has been said about this family and everything that has been thrown at them they have taken with dignity and always said it’s Maddie that matter and that breaks my heart to think of all the pain and suffering these poor devastated parents were going through and the police failing Maddie and them etc etc etc.
How dare they how dare they do this to this heartbroken couple.

Words cannot describe how I feel about that police force….Shove your Tourist Industry……

melbel said...

A Good Morning
I agree with everything that has been said,so far.
The Portugese Police,were very defensive from the beginning and the impression was given, that there were lots of leads.The PJ Officer,three days after, searching the block,did not know what Madeleine looked like.
The many errors made, have been highlighted by Police experts from many countries, with no axe to grind.
In the excellent article and comments made by Rosie, on this blog,we see the huge number of mistakes made.
They gambled on the forensic evidence,lost and then tried to shoe horn the suspects,into the available evidence.
What agonies this couple have had to undergo,after the disappearance of their daughter.
They relied on an inexperienced,defensive Police Force,in a country where people will brook no criticism of them.
On top of that,we have irresponsible leaks and no criticism of this, by the hierachy over there.
The PJ have turned many people in Portugal and some beyond, against them, in a situation, where secrecy was a requirement.
Well, are you wriggling and squirming, PJ, because you ought to be !How are you going to turn this around,now that your Prosecutor will not even agree that there is evidence to re interview this couple?
You need to come clean and fast, tying up this whole sorry mess.
How come you have not even got your initial timelines sorted out ?
You look like a boyband Police Force and what you have done to this couple is utterly despicable.
Do not attempt to release them from arguido status,leaving suspicions and innuendo.
There are many of us, who are so angry, that we could even try to arrange a boycott of your goods and tourist industry.
As for all the Goody two shoes,who think that there are not risks, in life, you should get out more.
Life is a difficult balance, at the best of times.
I have never thought it was wise, to leave the children unsupervised,but it was a peaceful,upmarket resort and in a million years, you would not have expected this.
These children are very much loved and cared for and that is no reason to insult and vilify them.
Why cannot some of you creeps, reading in, [of which , apparently, there are a large number]turn your guns on the monster,who took a child from her bed ?
Your sense of priorities is grossly flawed,in your continual repetitive scratching at that particular scab.

melbel said...

I see some nut had put up a comment re keyboard monkeys,,etc on the parallel universe.
Well, I cannot speak for any other blog,but we all form our own opinions on here, after considering a variety of newspapers and media reports and analysis.
We are a multi national group of searchers after the truth and what we will not be, is influenced by idiots and conspiracists on newspaper forums and blogs.
In the lack of any evidence in the public domain,we say innocent until proven guilty.
Many of us in the population,are not computer nerds, so think again.
I am going to take a shower now,but had better check carefully, in case Gordon Brown,is hiding under the bed. What !!!Get into the real world man and turn your computer off, which is what I am now going to do.

melbel said...

I see that Bianca, Vile and Rat features,think that Rosie wrote the Telegraph article of today and are accusing her of racism.
Indeed,the rat, is compiling a dossier!
That is not going to help any of you in the libel court.

calcite51 said...

Good morning, Melbel and Mandz, hope you are well.

I thought Rat was going to Turkey??? Let her compile a dossier.

I THINK IMHO, THE PJ WERE THE MOST INEFFICIENT, BUNGLING LOT. IF THAT SMACKS OF RACISM - SORRY. AND FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN - NOTHING HAS CHANGED IN PORTUGAL AND THEIR DEALINGS WITH MISSING CHILDREN.

And I think the interviews (if they ever take place), are going to be the biggest farce around. Who can remember little details after 10 months? I can see the answers now, "I don't remember." I don't remember."

This of course is all IMHO.

Tinkerbell43 said...

What truly pathetic, stupid people they are to think Rosie wrote the front page article.

Click on the link you idiots and read it for yourself unless of course Rosie is also Jan Moir when she is not being one of her other alias's.

You are so quick to judge everybody by your own standards, for christsake get a life.

Mandz said...

Ratface Bianca/Belindawhatever & Vile…….
What they gonna do because it’s an Article from the Telegraph!!!!!!!!

What you lot gonna take us to court for what…..??? Having an opinion on a blog HYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bring it on…………!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

calcite51 said...

Please note Vile, Rat, Bianca - we are NOT slandering anyone on this blog.

So, I agree with Mandz and Tinkerbell - bring it on - take us to court.

Can you imagine this group stating that we believe in innocent until proven guilty in a court of law? I'm sure that would of course make everyone in a court of law gasp in horror.

Perhaps we should bring some of the comments from the other blog - if you wish to see slanderous comments being made, go there.

calcite51 said...

And Rat, I would like to think that you would be the leader in taking us to court.

As I want to know what University you're teaching at to make sure my kids never attend a university that is wasting money on researching???.

I would never, ever knowingly donate to a University that has so much money they pay people to do what you're doing in the name of research.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hi All,

I cant stop as I am at work. Let them sit in their coven, compiling whatever they like, todays article has quite clearly been taken from the Telegraph.

Leave them to their sad, lonely existence, they really are not worth it.

Catch you all l8rs.

Bianca said...

But there's just one thing that none of you on this blog will accept. And that is, that while you may not have actually composed the racist article (about "southern Mediterranean machismo", and the like), you openly displayed and promoted the sentiments expressed in the article on the front page of your blog. You helped to encourage, and promote, openly racist ideas - and it isn't the first time. To critique the work of the PJ based on the machinations of the investigation itself is perfectly acceptable. You read the news (just like the anti's do) and have a right to comment on what you read. However, to promote negative views on this police force based on things such as body-language, accents, mannerisms and other cultural idiosyncrasies is indulging in racism - pure and simple - and this is both offensive and illegal.

When we anti's speculate about the McCanns, we generally do so within the acceptable boundaries of what is considered "common knowledge", i.e., a newspaper or other media outlet open reports or alleges something, and then we simply comment on it. In this, we are doing nothing illegal, and there is no case for libel. If we go beyond that common knowledge, and start inventing and actively promoting our own unique, spurious stories about the McCanns, then there MAY be a case for libel against us, although it would be complicated to prove.

I'm not sure if you pro's could get sued for racism, but I do believe you are walking a fine line. If nothing else, Jan Noir could CERTAINLY find herself in court for her anachronistic, hate-filled articles.

joanypony said...

Good afternoon all,

You know not only did the PJ screw up on this investigation but as Gerry said they were trying to stitch up Kate and him.

In a way they have because by making them arguidos they could prevent them from talking about anything to do with the case which includes their interrogation methods! Also because they made them arguidos they can refuse to answer questions, which the PJ have gone at lengths in leaks etc to say that Kate did.

How do we know, this could be another ploy to discredit the McCanns. They are now saying that they will not question Gerry and Kate because they will probably refuse to answer them. How do they know that, is this another get out for the PJ to try and salvage some credibility?

DEFINITELY TOO LATE FOR THAT THERE IS NONE TO SALVAGE!!

calcite51 said...

Bianca - oddly enough - when DE had their HYS - I remember some of the antis coming on and talking about Gerry's scotish brogue and his shifty eyes.

When it suits your group to be racist it's okay but anyone no?

joanypony said...

Hi calcite,

Yes inventing very derogatory names for Gerry's sister, Clarence Mitchell, The private detectives etc.

Shameful.

Bianca said...

CALCITE51 - Well if this is the case (I don't remember these comments, however, I do not deny them) then it is unacceptable and yes, racist. The fact that Gerry happens to have a "Scottish brogue" has absolutely nothing to do with Madeleine, or anything else involved in this case. There is a difference though. Gerry's "Scottish brogue" and other cultural idiosyncrasies have never been talked about on the front page of an "anti" blog, or used with any sincere venom against him. It is more a send-up, a sarcastic jape, than a way of proving him truly inferior. However, this is not the case with the "pro" racism toward the PJ, which is persistent, constantly referenced as the "reason for the failed investigation", and used with genuine venom.

calcite51 said...

Oh, Bianca, since we're discussing an article written by Jan Noir.

Let's discuss another article written by Alsabella - do you honestly think asking people what two questions they would ask that could possibly solve this case a bit outlandish. Give me Jan Noir any day of the week.

JANEGT said...

OH NO YOU DON'T BIANCA

not one bit

You have libellous comments on your blog and the other 2 also, I have copies. There are so many it runs to several folders now. The Newspaper saw fit to publish this after their own lawyers vetted it. We have no problem with that, so why should you?

Pot, Kettle very very Black comes to mind here.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Calcite,

Not forgetting the letter addressed to Mrs Healy!

calcite51 said...

Perhaps the PJ's feel that they have been misrepresented - they should be taking it up with the appropriate papers.

Personally, I think the secrecy laws in place is much more of a concern to me as well as the lack of accountability by the PJ's.

Bianca said...

CALCITE51 - I honestly don't see why that is offensive .. "which two questions would you ask to solve this investigation" .. what is the problem there?

Are you not telling me something?

joanypony said...

Bianca,

If you want to see 'venomous' remarks it's a pity you cannot read the DX and DS forums, they were disgusting, that was the reason I stopped posting there. The bullying and the downright nastiness was atrocious.

I hope whoever pulled the plug on these forums have kept copies of the posters who made up scuroulous theories about the McCanns and spewed them out on these sites.

They should hang their heads in shame.

Mandz said...

In my opinion she does not have the brains to fully understand the word/meaning of “racisms” however she throws it around a lot because she has nothing worthy or intelligent to say!

By the way the Telegraph article sold thousands of copies! Hot head won’t be happy!!

JANEGT said...

Today's discussion article took a lot of thought and courage to write particularly with her own family being in the police too.

An article being already in the public domain, that Rosiepops had every right to put up for discussion, is not any infringement whatsoever.

If you don't like the article, contact the author and the Newspapr direct.

I note no discussion on it happened by the person objecting anyway.

calcite51 said...

Bianca - I just think it was very inappropriate. People may think they're playing Nancy Drew or the Bobsey twins but unfortunately this heartbreaking story is really happening to a real family.

Nope, the questions were not appropriate and neither was the letter to Mrs. Healey.

I have to go to work now. Have a good day everyone.

JANEGT said...

sorry forgot to say

Good Afternoon

MANDZ, TINKERBELL, JOANYPONY, CALCITE

I agree with your posts this morning.

Bianca said...

JANEGT - As far as my understanding goes, in order to win "libel" you have to prove damages. These can be anything from the loss of your good name, to loss of employment, etc, but it must be proved. It is much easier to prove in a newspaper that INITIATES these stories, than in ordinary citizens that simply REACT to said stories. You see, when we all speculate on the McCann case, pro or anti, the overwhelming majority of our material comes from the media. We don't ALLEGE anything - the media does. Now, there may STILL be a case for libel against individual posters, but again, it would be hard to prove. And don't just think from an Aglo-centric point of view - what about the defamation against the PJ regarding two people that are still officially "arguido" under THEIR law??

JANEGT said...

CALCITE

The letter to Mrs Healey was atrocious. Also how sad to write it only to MRS Healy and not the correct form of address to both, equal parents and Mr and Mrs Healy. Rude and ignorant all in one before the ridiculous comments follow in a stupid rant against a grieving grandmother at her missing firstborn grandaughter. Somehow Crass and Insensitive are too complimentary to describe how low this was. For 2345.999 to then deliver it was the lowest of the low. You can't get lower than that. Poor demented individual.

Mandz said...

Hi Jane, Calcite and Melbel!!

Hope all well and what a fantastic article on OUR FRONT BLOG....

JANEGT said...

BIANCA

I know about libel laws and rules.

If PJ were to be accused of being inept, and it is proven, there is no libel.

QED

Bianca said...

"In my opinion she does not have the brains to fully understand the word/meaning of “racisms” however she throws it around a lot because she has nothing worthy or intelligent to say!

By the way the Telegraph article sold thousands of copies! Hot head won’t be happy!!

25 March 2008 13:22"
======================================


Whereas you epitomize the "intellectual heavyweight", don't you Mandz!

calcite51 said...

Bianca:

The PJ's have a bad image because:

- Allegedly, the police work they did was sloppy - when they saw a flyer of Madeleine in one of the apartments they apparently if that was the woman's daughter.

- Allegedly, photographs of the PJ enjoying wine during his lunch break were taken not by me but by a professional photographer.

- CNN taped a video of vans, trucks, going by at the border of Spain - the police were in their vehicle because it was raining - they were not stopping any vehicles.

- the PJ leaked information to newspapers - do you deny this?

And the latest one, I know no police force anywhere that would not condemn a 'fictional' account of an on going investigation.

Ok, now I really have to go.

Of course, all the point all alledgedly. It's not racism but I do think the PJ's did a lot more damage to themselves than I ever could.

JANEGT said...

HEY MANDZ.

CAN SEE YOU ARE IN FULL FLIGHT THIS MORNING/AFTERNOON NOW GOOD GRIEF HOW DID THAT HAPPEN??? I doubt your face is same as your happy avatar right now....

I am dashing down a quick lunch at same time as catching what has been going on today so far. I had not seen that article so it was nice to read someone with police in immediate family.

Mandz said...

Hi Joanypony!
You should have seen the DX last week certain “posters” were very abusive and venomous however the good old DX BANNED them and quite right I would have done the same. Some even came back under different names however could not keep their abuse in and the DX banned them yet again!

Thank you DX.

Bianca said...

Bianca - I just think it was very inappropriate. People may think they're playing Nancy Drew or the Bobsey twins but unfortunately this heartbreaking story is really happening to a real family.

Nope, the questions were not appropriate and neither was the letter to Mrs. Healey.

I have to go to work now. Have a good day everyone.

25 March 2008 13:25 - CALCITE51

====================================

I understand what you mean. No, this isn't an Agatha Christie novel - it is a real case about a real child. However, my personal take is that Alsabella meant no harm in these comments. She wants to find out what happened to Maddy, just like we all do. I really think that this is all the "question" was geared toward - not to be cold heartless, but simply to find answers.

JANEGT said...

bye for now CALCITE

I too have to go now - lunch over....too quickly.

see you perhaps later on....

have a nice day

Mandz said...

Hi Jane!

Enjoy your lunch! What a lovely day it is!

Bye for now....

Mandz said...

Jane,

Hope you liked the article on the front of our "BLOG" I thought it was FANTASTIC........

calcite51 said...

Bianca - before I go - I am really late now - will have to give up my lunch break.

It is my belief that Alsabella did not mean any harm with her comment about the two questions but....saying this, I don't understand if you are as supportive of the PJ's as you say you all are, then shouldn't you be allowing the PJ's to do their job and they should be the ones asking the questions.

Bianca said...

BIANCA

I know about libel laws and rules.

If PJ were to be accused of being inept, and it is proven, there is no libel.

QED

25 March 2008 13:33

=====================================

Fine. But the same goes for the McCanns. The investigation is still going, they are still arguido's, so really, where is the libel? I mean I know they won their damages, but I don't really understand why. Not because I think they killed Maddy (I'm not sure either way), but simply because they are still "arguido" - the investigation hasn't finished. You said about the PJ: IF it is proven, which suggests that things can possibly change in the future, new things come to light, etc. So what happens if the McCanns are proven guilty of manslaughter - theoretically - do the DE get their 500,000 pounds back??

calcite51 said...

I'm leaving will catch up tonight.

isis said...

Calcite, i deleted my post to you on yesterdays article as it is off topic and really not pertinent to the discussion but many thanks , i do appreciate your kindness.

calcite51 said...

Arguidos does not mean that you become food for the sharks (the newspapers - not the antis). The McCanns were able to prove obviously that they have been slandered and the judge agreed. Unless of course you believe 2345 ridiculous theory that it never happened and the DE never apologized.

Mandz said...

Bye Calcite!

Have a good one!

calcite51 said...

Hi isis - it's okay - I'm sending you a big hug.

Isis - I am thinking of you.

Bianca said...

CALCITE - Personally, I have no problem with people criticizing the PJ, so long as they are reasonable, rational, and don't descend into vitriolic xenophobia.

I guess it's the same for (most of) the pro's. They will accept you criticizing the McCanns, so long as it doesn't descend into irrelevancies like what Kate was "wearing", or whether or not she went to the hairdresser.

I can understand that, and I can understand your criticism of the PJ, even though personally, I think there has been a lot of biased reporting against them (starting to reverse though now).

Why don't you go to lunch?

Mandz said...

& you are just as daft as a brush.......good day....."belynda"

isis said...

Calcite, got the hug and thanks !!

Tulip said...

Hello everyone. Great Jan Moir article.

Sorry, Bianca. Your remarks about 'racism' are a joke. What you are talking about is being a xenophobe -- and anyway not true of Moir's article. I love the Italians and other Mediterranean people but commenting on the undoubted 'machismo' still prevalent there is perfectly legitimate -- as legitimate as saying the Brits are moaners and 'whingeing Poms' -- it's all a friendly tease. Racism is to do with colour prejudice.

But of course you aren't really offended -- you're all just bluffing and we know why. Nobody has referred to wogs or wops or Eyeties for many decades. Pull another one.

Oh and I've seen the anti-Scot rants ('that AWFUL Glasgow voice')in the DE.

Problem is, Bianca, you underestimate the intelligence of people over here. Probably because Alsa and co keep saying how clever they are. Difference is that here we are 'mensch's. Hai capito?

Rather go and enjoy the conspiracy-cum-science fiction on the other blog.

Btw criticism of the PJ is not libel. They are not in the sensitive position of being suspects and able to be prejudiced in any trial. On the contrary, police and politicians are public servants and answerable to those they serve.

Bianca said...

TULIP - Firstly, this is a good point and what I wanted to bring up but forgot to mention:

"Btw criticism of the PJ is not libel. They are not in the sensitive position of being suspects and able to be prejudiced in any trial. On the contrary, police and politicians are public servants and answerable to those they serve."

Yes. The McCanns WOULD have a case against certain people if they could prove that those people's attitudes, assertions, etc, influenced a jury. Again though, this is much easier to prove against a newspaper that initiates an allegation, than against Johnny Public, who simply responds to such allegations/remarks. I still don't know why they went after the DE though and not a Portuguese newspaper, after all, if they are ever tried, won't it be in Portugal?

Regarding the attitudes of Southern Mediterranean men, not sure where you get your information from, but I have lived in an Italian family for 33 years and from what I can see, it is primarily matriarchal. My grandma always had the last word. Same goes for my relatives and friends in Italy. Not sure which Mediterraneans you have observed, but they sound like something out of the Spanish Inquisition to me! Oh, and I would never call someone a "whinging Pom" - or at least, not out in the public arena. To me, that is vilification based on race, and not on personality.

Bianca said...

TULIP - forgot to mention, it's one thing to reference racial stereotypes (however misguided) in a jovial way at a BBQ or at your mate's Stag do - it's another to make these references when discussing something as serious as a missing child. I think you know, if you're honest with yourself, that the comments of Jan Moir were made to paint a general picture of incompetence of the Portuguese police, not just based on the real-life things that they have done (or as the accusation goes .. haven't done), but on the basis of race and what is perceived as racial inadequacies and failings. These comments are definitely "racist", as opposed to merely "racial".

Tulip said...

Hi Bianca

I've travelled in Italy many times and absolutely love it. I also speak Italian. I am not referring to the powerful position of mamas in the family, but the showing off of young men on their Vespas, the strutting and posturing as they accost pretty young women (oh yes I experienced that long ago!!)but it's all rather endearing. The allusion to this characteristic by Jan Moir was gently humorous.

'Whingeing pom' may be rude but it's not racist! The Americans got away with calling the French 'cheese-eating surrender monkeys', ha ha.
******
I've just read your later comment. I think Moir's comment on the way the PJ operate was quite legit and to the point. Only if you have another axe to grind would anyone find it offensive.

It is of the same ilk as the Alsa site people making 'ageist' granny comments about people on this site. It's just funny!!

Mum21 said...

Bianca,
The Telegraph is NOT a tabloid newspaper like the DE. There is no way they would have printed Jan Moir's article if they considered it to be racist.
In fact it is not racist because Jan Moir was attacking a police force...not a country. It would not have mattered whether this police force had been English, American, Spanish or from any other country. She was attacking their lack of ability as a police force. One which in my opinion deserves to be criticized. The way the PJ have handled this case is a disgrace.
Now have you not got anything better to do than keep ranting your beliefs on here?
Because you are on a road to nowhere.
Enjoy your day.

Mandz said...

Bianca said...
ANONYMOUS - what difference does it really make who actually wrote it?? It's on the front page of the blog, and clearly echoes the view of the person who posted it! Tinkerbell says: "This article picks up from where we left off yesterday".

Okay. Rosiepops didn't write it. I apologise. But can you honestly say that the views expressed by Jan Moir of the Telegraph aren't sanctioned by Rosiepops and the other pro's? If they weren't, why would they even bother posting them??

MARGA - I agree .. desperate! Yes, I am a bit of a hothead, it's that Mediterranean blood :-)

**********************************

Bianca we will post what we like and what we want “get it” We liked the “article” did you get that….. “article” did the penny drop???? Hope so…In future if you don’t like the “articles” posted then don’t come and read them and don’t bring you pathetic racist rants get it?? Hope so..now bye..

Mum21 said...

Hi Mandz,
I never intended to post on here yet today...have loads to do.
But when I spotted the trouble maker here....I had to say something. She was despicable on the DE....and she is despicable on here.
Not because she does not agree with our opinions...but because she attacks a mild blog...but has nothing bad to say about some of the bile posted on Alsa'a blog. Her's may not be racist...but it most certainly is libellous. They quote fiction as fact.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Bianca,

Wrong again, just shows how clearly you read things. The article on the front was posted by Rosiepops. Thanks Tinks, was Rosie's reference to me for forwarding the article.

The article is in line with light discussions we were having yesterday, not that we really have to justify anything to you.

I think you need to clean up your own house before questioning ours.

Mandz said...

Hi Mum!

I was the same however I'm fed up with her calling us names. She did it for months on the DE and now here well not on. She is obsessed with that "word" & should get over it!!!!

Tulip said...

Mum and Mandz. Precisely. You'll have noticed that I try to keep my temper but you can't argue with stirrers.

Mandz said...

You are right Tulip & excellent posts!

Rosiepops said...

So Bianca, Prat,

Take the Telegraph to court too.

Amazing how you can get so up in arms about an article in a newspaper, which I didn't write (but thanks for the compliment anyway).

But choose to ignore for 10 months the fact that you have been libelling a couple who must be at the lowest ebb in their lives, with the most filthiest of accusations and blood curdling killing theories, that I could not even have imagined. Not too mention the Prat ranting against Clarence Mitchell and bringing his wife and children into her threats of outing him going to shock of horrors, a football match with his children.

So you run along you pathetic fools and take me to court, I will be proud to be there.

I look forward to a judge actually explaining to you what racism actually is and means.

Prat do and say what you like, it does not matter how much pseudo fuss you like to kick up against me and your childish accusations of racism, it still will not make you look any better at your place of work.

I have kept out of this so far, took things down when they have come up here and genuinely tried to help, but I am just wondering now, how your employers would like to see threats of vexatious litigation added to your ever growing list of personality defects?

I hope you do take me to court for racism because I would just like to see the look on your face when you see me and my family standing there.

Now toddle off to your solicitor you pathetic silly cow. (I can say cow can't I?) It is not cowism or any awful insult to a cow, me referring to you as one of them is it?


Thought you were in snowy Alanya anyway?

Rosiepops said...

Diane re your post of 03.35

I too sensed that the McCann's were having reservations about the investigation but kept quiet because they did not want to impede the investigation.

With regard to your abilities as a mum, I would say you are a pretty good one. We all of us make mistakes in our parenting and I would say that those that think they are perfect and do not make mistakes are actually complacent and thus are putting their children on danger.

Bianca said...

Actually Rosiepops, I am not the one with "blood curdling" theories. Read the DE archives if you have access to them, read me on the "anti" blog if you wish - basically, I always say the same thing - I am suspicious of the McCanns demeanor, however, I am undecided as to what actually happened to Madeleine.

I base each and every theory, discussion, etc, on media reports. It's all I have to work with. And yes, some of the media makes gruesome suggestions. However, I have never indulged in the "gruesomeness" beyond superficial speculation. In earnest, I don't believe Madeleine was viciously murdered. I don't dream up images of blood, body fluids and the like. I see her being either accidentally killed, or abducted like her parents claim, but not beaten, kicked, and all the other stuff that some people allege.

By the way, what do you mean by all that stuff at the "place of work"? And what is "snowy Alanya"?

Rosiepops said...

Bianca,

Ask Rat. far be it fro me to encroach on her personal life.

while you are here, why is it that you lot have come over here accusing me of racism?

Let me tell you that I think the PJ are grossly incompetent. this means that I think they are incapable of doing their job properly, it doesn't mean i think they are incapable because they are Portuguese, it means I think they are incapable because they are idiots, or maybe they are not idiots, maybe it is because of something else? Who knows that is for them to know and us to find out, which we invariably will, always does happen like that.

Anyway I have better things to do than to argue with you.

Tulip said...

Bianca I think these references are to Rat!

Bianca said...

Okay, let be more specific, in my opinion, Jan Moir is racist! I don't think ethnic mannerisms or idiosyncrasies have anything to do with the competency (or lack thereof) of the PJ.

You (and others) obviously feel the PJ have been incompetent. You have listed many reasons for this. Fine. But why must she (Jan) bring up things like "No Senhor" and all that Spanish stereotype rubbish? All she is doing is angering and alienating people who feel she is not focusing on the issues at hand, but rather, focusing on rubbish!

Anyway, I am not a fan of horror films and I have never dreamed up a gruesome death for the McCann child. I want to make that clear!

Rosiepops said...

To all our regular posters.

This is obviously another poly to prevent us from discussing this subject, same as the book was yesterday, so let's try and stay on topic.
I hope you will agree that this is a subject that strikes right at the heart of the Madeleine McCann investigation and this is itself needs a public inquiry, so it is important we keep this up.

I believe we must put pressure on the British government to put pressure on the Portuguese government to hold a public inquiry into the shambolic investigation of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

Let's not allow their pathetic attempts of shouting "fire in a crowded theatre" to divert attention.

Bianca said...

Bianca I think these references are to Rat!

25 March 2008 15:39 - Tulip
=====================================

Yes, I get that now! God knows what it means though - I'll have to ask her I think.

Thanks.

Christabel said...

Hi Rosie,
I see our blog is being dragged down to DE level.
Whats their agenda ? disruption to try and stop us posting "Dream on".

So see you later, need to pass something on before tomorrow am.

Rosiepops said...

Bianca

In all honesty can you see rat taking the Telegraph (or me) to court and saying I think that they are racist because this phrase was used "Senhor"? it isn't even derogatory because what surrounds it isn't even derogatory.

It is really pathetic and Prat is clutching at straws and she is trying to take her unfortunate situation out on me, well I have nothing to do with it.

Instead of her sending you over hear to do her bidding for her, tell her to come herself.
(If she has finished her dossier and managed to get back from her solicitors)

Rosiepops said...

Hi Christabel

Me too, only popped on briefly, have a bit of work to do, got finished earlier today, so maybe I will be able to finish up earlier this evening.

so will be disappearing for a couple of hours soon.

Christabel said...

Rosie,
just saw your post Re Prat.

What a joke eh !
It was OK when she threatened to expose Jane's details and bragging what she knew, but somebody bet her to it with her own !
Sorry but IMO it serves her right, and now she is hell bent on revenge, so automatically blames one of us.
I would say look a lot nearer home.
By the way they sell Turkeys in Asda lol.

Mandz said...

IMO the PJ's catalogue of errors are unforgivable...The McCann's were highly critical of them in the beginning and now we know why and can see for ourselves..

Bianca said...

Rosiepops, for what it's worth, RatOnTheBeam doesn't even know I am here. She didn't "send" me. Honestly.

I have only just become a blog user. They were on that blog for months and I never went on. Was too busy "having my say" on all in sundry at the DE before I was banned! I work odd hours, so got bored again and went back on the net, this time to blog. That's the beginning and end of it. I have no pre-established relationship with Rat. She seems like a nice person, but honestly, I hardly know her.

Rosiepops said...

Mandz

well they say the truth hurts.

Bianca said...

Rosiepops, for what it's worth, RatOnTheBeam doesn't even know I am here. She didn't "send" me. Honestly.

I have only just become a blog user. They were on that blog for months and I never went on. Was too busy "having my say" on all in sundry at the DE before I was banned! I work odd hours, so got bored again and went back on the net, this time to blog. That's the beginning and end of it. I have no pre-established relationship with Rat. She seems like a nice person, but honestly, I hardly know her.

Gina said...

Bianca I have been waiting for you to come back onto Alsa site to tell you something as I swore I would not post on here again. However I cannot wait much longer, so here goes and I bet I regret this in a minute-

IMO Rosiepops is many things, but I do not think she is racist- In fact, and I am only guessing, I would say that her children are from a mixed marriage- Really sticking my neck out now, I do not think her husband is from any med country as she really does not understand their culture at all, I would guess Asian. However that does not matter, all I am saying is although she blows up and sometimes uses what appears to be racist comments, I do not think she is. She is however totally against the Portuguese Police Force, but I guess you worked that out for yourself.

Regards Rat. Some arse outed rat on these boards, giving her name and where she worked and said they were going to inform her university that she was posting on blogs using their computers. Rat is on to that one. She said she was going to Turkey (alanya) for a holiday and we thought she had gone, so when she posted this week I asked why she was not on the beach and she said it was because it was snowing where she was and she does not go to Turkey till the end of the week- That all snowy alanya was about.

Please do not reply to me on here as I am back to Alsa's, see you there if you want to take me to task over this or anything

Gina said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rosiepops said...

Bianca

Seeing as she will not come on here herself and make a post under her own ID.

Maybe you can tell me why she is deciding to take me to court for being a racist and accusing me of writing something I did not write?

I can't ask them on whatever blog she is firing off on today, because if I did I would get deleted.

I would like Rat to show some dignity and come on here and make a post to explain herself, instead of being a coward and crowing from where she knows she cannot be touched.

Well anyway I have to be off now I have some things I must do.

see you later Bianca.

Bianca said...

To be honest, I have had my own doubts about the PJ. I try to be fair (believe it or not!), and a lot of the stuff coming from the PJ seemed very inconsistent. The big thing for me was the initial "ring" search. Now, here's where I am stuck - The Portuguese posters swear BLIND it was done, whereas the British newspapers say it was not! Who is the average reader meant to believe?? If it WASN'T done, then this is terribly unprofessional. If, however, it WAS done, then what an awful lie to tell about the Portuguese police!

Rosiepops said...

Gina

No I am not a racist thanks at least for recognising this.

I do actually understand Mediterranean culture for reasons I will not go into on here.

I am against the incompetence of the Portuguese police, not against the Portuguese police (there is a difference).

If people that accuse me of being racist actually read what I have written themselves, instead of reading how one person has interpreted what I said and then jumped on the band wagon and called me a racist etc, they would realise for themselves, that actually I am far from being a racist.

Like yourself I have a habit of calling a spade a spade, I do not pussyfoot around, if I have something to say I say it, it gets me into trouble sometimes, but they that's life.

By the way Rat was NOT outed on here, no not at all, she was outed by an Anonymous poster on A's board and the posts were then copied and pasted here and we removed them them out of fairness to Rat.

The outing of Rat as far as I know has nothing what-so-ever to do with anyone on this board.

Rat, for months has been making some pretty rash statements and has been particularly vitriolic towards the McCann's and Clarence Mitchell and his family. She has done this on a public forum on a daily newspaper, she has more times than I can remember stated she is a college lecturer and if you Googled her name you are taken straight to her blog profile and what she has done, it was every easy to do this, many people would have done it.

It is quite possible that someone from her own college has read what she has been writing and they have outed her, in fact it could be one of many people that she has upset, so why she thinks to keep blaming us here is puzzling.

so perhaps if you see her saying she was outed on this board that you could put her right? She wasn't and for the culprit perhaps she would have better luck looking closer to home.

She is still not endearing herself to people by coming on here making wildly pathetic childish allegations.

Now I really must go, I have lots to do and I am wasting some valuable time I earned myself earlier today.

Bianca said...

Rosiepops - I'm not even sure that one blogger CAN take another blogger to court for being racist!

I would have thought that it would be Jan Moir, if anyone, that would be admonished, perhaps legally, for writing articles that others (including me) perceive as racist.

What the other stuff that Rat has on you for being "racist" though .. sorry, no idea!

Gina said...

Rosie, like me you can get into trouble these days for calling a Spade and Spade if you know what I mean.

I did forget to put on my post to Bianca that someone had posted Rats outing on here and you had removed it and for that I thanked you

Other than that I have no further comments I wish to make. Best Wishes

melbel said...

I see that Bianca, has been on here, during the day, causing trouble and accusing us, collectively, of being racist.
She specifically named Rosie and Mum, on different blogs,but she has also said that this applies to all of us.
I would like to inform this xenophobe,[vis a vis the British, as evidenced by her numerous rantings in DE] that I take great personal objection to this.
In my view, in the absence of an apology, she should be kicked off the blog.

Tulip said...

Hi fellow racists!

The other blog seems to have fallen into chaos. 1-5 has gone completely doolally and attacked Bianca (yes I know, it is rather funny) who doesn't appear to know 1-5's extraordinary record and is totally bewildered.

Mandz said...

I agree Melbel it's becomig a bit like 2345's obsession with the word fffooorrensic!

Kick the likes of that to the kerb where she belongs.....

Mandz said...

We saw the police on CNN footage sitting in cars out of the rain??? What about Maddie?? How could they make such unforgivable mistakes???

The McCann’s should not have left them (and just for the record they did not leave Maddie babysitting her brother and sister as Anti seem to suggest) however other parents who took up the listen at apartment doors nanny service offered at MW complex should not have left their children alone. The McCann friends also did the same so to call on the McCann’s for child neglect then call on “ALL PARENTS” who did the same by using this service and not just in Portugal other MW complexes in different Countries which parents choose to stay at and use this “nanny “service”.

No matter what the McCann’s did not deserve this no way however the person/s that came into their environment is to blame…the sick son of a bitch that took her from her loving parents I pray someone get’s to you/z….

Bianca said...

Okay then Tulip. Care to fill me in? What don't I know? Obviously something because yes, I AM bewildered! I am being accused of being secretly in league with my dishonorable British countrymen, even though I am well and truly an Australian.

I'll admit (is this funny, is it?) I'm confused.

Okay Melbel. I apologise. None of you on here are racist. I maintain that Jan Noir is, or at least, xenophobic, but I retract my initial accusation that you on here were supporting racism.

k?

Gina said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tulip said...

OK Bianca. The poster in question is the Grand Master of the Dark Mysteries, the Archbishop of Alternative Theories, the Queen of Conspiracies, the World's (nay the solar system's)leading exponent of forensic knowledge which she repeats ad nauseam.

Ask Gina to explain. I think your attacker is very confused. Or something. I'll say no more on that score.

Glad you now think we aren't racists, thanks to Alsabella's regal (legal?) advice. If she had said that we were, would you have maintained your position??

Gina said...

Rosiepops I said would regret posting on here this is what I have to put up with. (sorry deleted previous because I scrolled up too far on the other blog- Never again will I post even if I feel someone is being unjustly treated on here
...................................

Anonymous said...
Prat
don't flatter yourself you were made the topic on a decent blog by Gina as per usual (wooden spooner).
then Blanca had to have her say.
Do not pretend you don't view the blog and email others to do your dirty work for you.
Your a liar prat,take a look at the posts you made regarding Janegt you also need to be careful calling her a drunk.

Good to see the ones on here prefer Rosiepops & co site, they just can't keep away tee hee he.

25 March 2008 18:20


Gina said...
Anon, if anybody can be bothered to go read the other blog you will see that I did not start anything about Rat on it. So if you are going to wooden spooner at least try to use some sense because these facts can be seen by all. I actually posted in defence of Rosiepops which I knew would be a mistake. It seems the really is a pot kettle situation. Go back to your pit hun

25 March 2008 18:26

Mandz said...

So as I said the real person who is responsible is the person/s that TOOK MADDIE FROM HER LOVING PARENTS....

Bianca said...

What's the big deal? I've apologised now. I've retracted my statements. Remember folks, we get our info from the media. We don't have inside information.

Bianca said...

Anyway, good night (whoever the heck any of you really are, or are not, or want to be, or are pretending to be!).

In the words of Bertrand Russell .. "whatever" ..

No, not really.

Tulip said...

Buona notte, Bianca cara!

Mandz said...

She needed Alsa approval of our article and if it was rrr or not! Yawn Yawn..
As for Anon posters why come here with them??

Tinkerbell43 said...

Agreed Mandz, there is only one criminal in this and that is the person/s that entered that apartment and took this dear child from her bed!

The actions of them putting their children to bed while they dined locally, gave NO-ONE the right to abduct this child.

And by focusing all the attention on the parents, the true monster has got away scott free.

JANEGT said...

GINA

re '''anon'''

It does not necessarily mean someone as you imply from THIS blog is that anon. That is why we do not allow 'anon' to post here, it stops this type of problem arising. You seem to accue this blog of posting it. This is biased and silly. As you very well know, there are 3 anti, 1 pro. and 1 outing abusive posts blogs if I can describe them that way. So. Out of these 5, you seem to be certain it is us. Take your complaints to your High Commissioner Ombudsman, the one that will not allow me to post UNDER MY OWN NAME, DESPITE BEING POLITE WHEN BEING ATTACKED REGULARLY BY YOUR COLLEAGUES ON THAT SITE. I have seen my posts copied out of context, ridiculed, torn apart, yet I am not even given the right to reply. /this is plain wrong and conniving. You on your blog have goaded, baited, teased and abused us all far too long. Go and play with your own dolls you upset our harmony here bit time. You go there and twist what was said here, to slant it towards the High Priestess's views. I do not like that it is duplicitous. If you really were on the fence as you seem to claim, You Would Stick Up for ANY UNFAIRNESS. You don't you revel in it.



Bianca

we accept your apology - now go to your own blog as your are apparently disrupting this one, and not 'debating' but antagonising from what I have seen last 2 hours. The real 'racist' comment, of which I have copies, were that the Scots accent was objectionable. Now, THAT'S racist.

Did you object then? No. Why not if you are so incensed by racism did you not do so?????

Exactly.

We do not cause havoc on your blog, but are regularly critcisedfor it, despite you hanging our posts out to dry, our front page article to debate torn to shreds, and even the artistic egg with Madeleine in it was criticised. You call us sick? JUST LOOK AT 2345 WHO IS CLEARLY just that and more as Tulip said.

Racist? No a proveable medical fact.

Run by the sword you die by the sword.

Mandz said...

Don’t know about anyone else but I couldn’t care less what she thinks about this article or calling us rrrr. All very boring and she has taken up enough time here today with that nonsense. Her problem not ours.

Can you imagine if we went onto the hate McCann site and started banging on and on and on about their front page article which is “usually against” the McCann’s????? It would be deleted anyway.

supertroll said...

Hello everyone,

Just stopped by briefly as I am cooking dinner.

I have been having a little giggle over Rat's accusations of racism, calling her a racist, etc... and the file she is compiling.

I was just wondering if she would care to justify the following comment that she posted on Alsabella's blog after hearing of Mari Luz's death. Tee hee hee.

ratonthebeam said...

Yes, Rumanian gipsies can be very loose cannons. We have a small group of them here, that sell the Big Issue (we are even importing homeless people now!) and there have been several vicious, drunken fights, right in the middle of the main street, in the middle of the day. They are never away from the Police Cells. They are the sort of people you would just avoid, and I don't mean that in any xenophobic sense. I worked for a while in Finland, and all the Finns I knew were very heavy vodka drinkers (Finnish vodka is very potent) and then they would get into really, really vicious knife fights. And that was just the women. I am not joking. And the Rumanians we have here are much, much worse behaved than the Finns.

09 March 2008 10:56

I wonder what Bianca thinks now also.

Silly Rat!
People from glass houses....

Regards
ST

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hi ST,

Exactly, the biggest hypocrites, are the ones that protest the most.

Mandz said...

Yes Tinks the real MONSTER (ABDUCTOR/Z) have got off scot free and from any abuse???? The Antiz refuse to believe he/she/them exists??????? Frightening……..


Just going off for some food!

Tinkerbell43 said...

OK Mandz, see you soon, hope you are feeling better :0)

Mandz said...

ST,

Thanks for that...POT KETTLE BLACK!

Do you think she will have that copy and use it against herself - come on Rat be fair and REPORT YOURSELF?!!!!!!!

Mandz said...

Thanks Tink! Feeling a bit better!

Bye.

JANEGT said...

TULIP

IF YOU STILL HAVE THE WILL TO LIVE......

I AGREE WITH YOUR LAST POSTS.

HEE HEE HEE!!!!!

;O(((((((((((((((((((( )))

melbel said...

Bianca, apology seen and accepted, thank you .

melbel said...

Hi Tinks,Jane,,Tulip,Mandz
Spot on, Tulip and Jane re the posts.
I despise myself, but it is a kind of horrible fascination, to go over there to watch 2345.
I will point my chair that way,instead of Eastenders.
Also, Ratty is stealing my lines about the parallel universe,must sneak in here.
Little grey braincell, says he is a comedy scriptwriter,but what a joyless man or lady, that is.
Back after Eastenders. x

Bianca said...

Bianca, apology seen and accepted, thank you .

25 March 2008 19:30 - Melbel

====================================

You're welcome.

Tinkerbell43 said...

And what privacy law indeed, prevented them from releasing a description of the PJ's Madeleine was last seen in ?.

According to Portuguese legal experts, the law includes 2 exceptions, both of which apply in the case of Madeleine.

There is a provision for the rule to be broken if the public are in danger or if media reports need to be corrected.

Experts say there were grounds for using either or both exceptions to allow police fully to involve the press and the public in their search!

Why was this not applied ??. Someone needs to answer this, because imo it is inexcusable!

JANEGT said...

melbel

thank you very much

TULIP you should be a scriptwriter like mrs lgc, ''hello fellow racists''......ha ha ha ha ha will remember that one. what a hoot. they give us such great comedy lines to play with don't they, like the fffffffffffffforensics,
highway whores ha ha ha still running on that one. I lve the 1-5 label. I will now adopt that. Lot shorter than what I call Mrs Consecutive Numbers as someone else said. She seems the front line cabaret act, = most popular -for all the wrong reasons.

Can I add I think I recall you from the DE days of old? don't I??????!!!

hmmmmm

Rosiepops said...

Mandz and Melbel

Your posts of this morning were excellent both of you actually putting into words what many of us feel and Melbel is right, the PJ had better not attempt to release this couple from their arguido status under a cloud of suspicion because there are a great many people here who will try and organise a boycott of Portuguese goods and your tourist industry and please do not take this as an idle threats there is nothing idle about us when we have our backs up and boy have you got our backs up.

Look at the people that make this blog, look at us, we are mothers, grandmothers and sisters and aunts, we have never even blogged before let alone allowed ourselves to get so incensed over a police force in another country.

We are here because we see an injustice being done and we simply will no longer stand by and watch these people be abused in this fashion.

Mandz said:


This is exactly what we were discussing yesterday. The police FAILED MADDIE MCCANN AGED 3 YEARS when she needed them and her family. Away back right at the beginning the McCann’s were critical of the police “acting too slow” Gerry stated “to little to late” and how right he was and as this whole “tragedy” unfolded I saw exactlt what he meant. After that he said in the media we just want to move on and push this investigation to look for Maddie she is the important one.
Everything that has been said about this family and everything that has been thrown at them they have taken with dignity and always said it’s Maddie that matter and that breaks my heart to think of all the pain and suffering these poor devastated parents were going through and the police failing Maddie and them etc etc etc.
How dare they how dare they do this to this heartbroken couple.

Words cannot describe how I feel about that police force….Shove your Tourist Industry……

25 March 2008 08:17

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Me too take your damned tourist industry and shove it.

If you the PJ do not like these messages then tough do something about this despicable situation you have created.

Do the only decent thing you can do now, YOU PJ, YOU tell the truth and admit you got this couple all wrong and you fouled this investigation up and you have allowed child abductors to get away Scott free.

JANEGT said...

TINKS

YES IT ABSOLUTELY STINKS
TO HIGH HEAVEN

they 'bend' rules to suit them, they gambled and lost, tried to put large shoe on extremely small foot, and now? back pedalling likemad. No credibility.

Shambolic.

Get the EEC in now to examine this travesty. they just don't see it.............do they?

Rosiepops said...

I haven't had time to read through the posts just yet and will disappear in while to have my dinner, I will be back around 8.30 ish.

So hello to everyone, just made a quick post and run and will be back soon

Tulip said...

Thanks Jane. I read the DX HYS ever since the beginning but never posted. I just couldn't stand it any more so had to jump in. I feel I know you all well.

You know the Portuguese need us much more than we need them, something that Alsa and co seem to think irrelevant. Tourism plays a much bigger role relatively in their country than it does in ours and there are so many lovely places in Europe -- with sun -- that people can visit instead. If I had a trip planned to the Algarve and had the tiniest suspecion that I would not be welcome I'd simply choose somewhere else.

It's just bravado to say 'we don't want you, thanks'. Really?

JANEGT said...

TULIP
Yes, friends of mine and their families have already cancelled their trips to the Algarve for the summer...

It is such a shame as it is beautiful. This (lack of) investigation has done them absolutely no favours, so you are right they have far more to lose than others in this. Pity.

You cannot in this day and age 'hide' behind secrecy laws, with discretion which they CHOSE NOT TO USE, then totally blame the McCanns ecause a 'deadline' was coming vey soon by which they would need to show them all the evidence. As they had none. ... they had to do it then and there.

To on top of this mess have officers involved as arguiodos in other investigation in to a child missing/murder case with no body, is abhorrent. Add to this the book by ex pj also under investigation also....ha ha ha ha

Hitchcock compared to this state of affairs/bloody mess is a comedy writer. Beggars belief.

Rosiepops said...

Tinkerbell43 said...
Agreed Mandz, there is only one criminal in this and that is the person/s that entered that apartment and took this dear child from her bed!

The actions of them putting their children to bed while they dined locally, gave NO-ONE the right to abduct this child.

And by focusing all the attention on the parents, the true monster has got away scott free.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Absolutely, NOTHING in this world gave that unspeakable thing the right to take that innocent child from her bed and a 'thing' is what it is, because I would not insult an animal by calling that thing an animal!

See this PJ? You have allowed to go free a thing that preys on children and it is tearing a family apart and causing the deepest of distress and what do you do? You take the easy way out and blame the parents and let this thing go free to do it again to another child and to another family.
I know that a lot of you are family people, I know that this will distress you as much as it does us, so why? Why have you allowed this situation to develop?

Do the decent thing PJ set this couple free, it is the very least you can now do for them, set them free and exonerate them, give them all the information you have and help them and their investigators look for and find Madeleine.

Sass said...

Hiya

Back in Austria now, so fewer computer problems.

Read the article, very good. We all agree, I think, that the McCanns shouldn't have left their children alone, but in my opinion, the only one responsible for her disappearance is the one who took her. The McCanns trusted that their children were safe. Misplaced trust indeed, but the criminal is the one who took her.

Sass said...

Just realised I repeated what Tinks said!

Oh well, I suppose repetition emphasises the fact!

Mum21 said...

Good Evening All.
I have just read through this afternoons posts and cannot believe what I have seen.
It took just one devious lady to disrupt a friendly blog.
Do I care if she thinks the article is racist? NO I do not.

Do I care that she asked the Queen Bee if it was? NO I do not.

Do I care that the big headed Rat thinks somebody from here outed her? NO I do not.

Do I care that we get the blame for all Anonymous posts on Alsa's blog? NO I do not.

We know who we are and what we stand for....and that is all that matters. What they think of us on The House from Hell...is irrelevant.
How can anyone believe in and take Alsabella seriously when she allows the constant libellous rants from 2345 to remain on her blog. If Alsabella truly wanted justice to be done...and the truth of the case to be found....no way would she allow such content to remain. We do not need to belittle her...she is doing a grand job of it herself

Rosiepops said...

Hi Sass,

Glad to see you got back safely x

doesn't matter how many times it is said, we will say it as many times as is required until it sinks in.

The true criminal is the thing that took an innocent child from her bed.

How about the the PJ spend as much time hunting this filth down as it has done trying to shoe horn the McCann's into the frame for this?

Rosiepops said...

Hi Mum

That's right. I think this was only a self righteous fest that pRat allowed herself to go on, to try and divert attention away from her numerous short comings.

"look everyone, see here I am really a very nice person, I shout loudly about non existent racism, when I make racist and xenophobic remarks about gypsies myself!

(Probably all the while hoping her bosses get to see it, so they don't entirely mark her down as a nasty narrow minded bigot)

Stupid really, no one was even mentioning her on here and she managed to stir it all up again, who is she going to blame for it this time?

Dobywallah said...

GOOD EVENING FRIENDS & TRAITORS.
Last night I explained how I took a look at Alsabellas Blog and said Gina was on there making some very uncomplimentary remarks about the posters on this site. Don't know if anybody read my comments as it was late on and many were signing off and going to "Bo Bo's" There was however one of our friends, Chinadoll, who acknowledged my post. Looking back over the days posts I noticed Chinadoll had been in conflict with Gina and not surprisingly was very angry towards her as some of her comments were anything but friendly towards the McCanns and those in support of them. Earlier I had made a post accusing GINA of being a traitor, mole and Alsa' supporter. My post was very quickly deleted from their Blog. Chinadoll said I was the only one who had read or at least commented on her earlier disputes with Gina and said as a result she felt somewhat disillusioned. Her final remark was "What's the point" and "goodbye". I quickly responded saying she was very much appreciated by us all and asked her to stay with us, but I notice there are no further of her posts on the blog today? Reading some of the posts today, perhaps I am a little Naive but I get the impression Bianca and Gina have much in common, perhaps a little TOO much, you don't suppose... do You?

Sass said...

Hiya Rosie and Mum21

Well said, Mum!


Rosie, got back this afternoon.

Naturally the plane was delayed and I had just waited 10 hours in Switzerland!

Tulip said...

Doby, it may just be blog fatigue. It can be very depressing but then one surfaces. Hope that's the case with China.

Sass said...

Hiya Doby

Not been around for a couple of days, so missed a bit.

I do get annoyed by people turning up here and getting on fine then going to Casa Crud and saying how awful we are. I hadn't noticed Gina doing that recently though.

I spend as little time as possible looking at that place. You can only take so much "Hail Alsabella" and back-slapping!

As far as Bianca and Gina being the same people (if that's what you mean), I'm pretty sure that's not the case. Bianca seems to have calmed down a lot from the DX days, which is great, but her style is still different from that of Gina.

I hope Chinadoll comes back - I love reading her posts.

Dobywallah said...

TULIP,
hope you are right Tulip, I like very much Chinadoll and would be quite upset if we lost her! I did get the feeling her earlier disputes with Gina were not being acknowledged or apreciated and as a result felt P....d off. Having read her objections against Gina's attitude I can well understand how she felt!

Christabel said...

Hi Rosie, Sass, Mum, Tulip and Doby, hope I got you all in.
Good article today, not appreciated by some I see.

Not on long tonight ("who said thank god")lol.
Early start tomorrow, you know things to do people to see ha ha.

Doby you could be right there with that last statement!
China if your watching come on down ! we miss you.

Dobywallah said...

Evening Sassy, pleased to hear from you. Must admit I'm not completely sure about Bianca? but having read some of her more recent posts... well the proof is in the pudding as they say!

JANEGT said...

HEY GUYS

CHINADOLL

LOST???

NO WAY. SHE WOULD FIGHT HER WAY OUT OF ANY IMPRISONMENT.... and I know her too well as WYWIWYG cannot keep quiet for a minute wen something is clearly wrong. No way........

She is fine

Sass said...

Hiya Tulip and Christabel

Won't be on long tonight (no Mexican waves please) but back to normal from tomorrow.

supertroll said...

Hello again,

I read the article in your latest post in detail, and as a Mediterranean person with southern european ancestry (yes, Portuguese too). I did not find the article at all offensive or racist.

Accusations of racism from Alsa and Claudia come out of a misplaced sense of pride, and their being petty minded and malicious.

Accusations from Viv and rat just stem from a wish to s**t stir, and get the kick they don't get in their sad lives..

The Portuguese police are not the first force in the world to mess up. Here in Britain there have been a few shameful episodes which have led to miscarriages of justice; Stefan Kisko, Judith Ward, Jean Charles de Menezes are some examples of this.

In Spain, 20 or so years ago, corrupt policemen with the help of some politicians, decided to skip the proper law process and eliminate ETA terrorists personally. Unfortunately they were extremely inept at this and got innocent people each time.

What happened in both cases is that there was a public outcry when this came out to light, and too right.

Both the UK and Spain washed their dirty linen in public, and admitted their mistakes.

However painful and embarassing it is to admit mistakes. Being able to do this and learn from them makes Democracy stronger and reinforces public trust in the police force long run.

I don't know what will happen in Portugal over this case, But I do believe mistakes have been made and the McCann's are now in a situation which is extremely inhumane.

I do hope that the relevant powers will be able to look at these mistakes and have a rethink of their laws given what has happened.

What will happen? Who knows, it is not up to us. But I am fond of Portugal and its people and trust that justice will prevail in the long run, and that wrongs will be put right.

The investigation over the Cipriano case is a good start.

Claudia and Alsa can bury their heads in the sand, blame the McCanns for killing their daughter and accuse everyone who disagrees of being child neglectors, racists, etc...

But by doing this they are showing themselves as the unpleasant narrow minded bigots that they are, and they are also putting people off from visiting their country.

At the end of the day, they are the one living under the current laws.

They seem to forget that what is happening to the McCann's happened before to one of their own.

Regards
ST

Christabel said...

Hi Jane,
glad to hear that China ok.

Christabel said...

Sass,
did the hoover bags melt? hope so.

Dobywallah said...

CHRISTABELL.
Hiya Christabell, nice hearing from you again, sorry you won't be on long but if you are up early in the mornings that understandable. I am a lady of leisure if you can call bringing up a family and doing the house work "leisure"?

Mum21 said...

Rosie,

I found Jan Moir's artcicle to be very interesting...and fair. But then that is exactly what I had expected from her. I have read many of her articles over the years and she is a fine writer.
She says it how it is.

dianeh said...

Hi Everyone

I agree with Mum, who cares what they think about us on the other blogs?

Bianca, you are wasting your time coming on here accusing us all of being racist. I think you were on the wrong blog with those comments. Wanting a government or public inquiry into the PJ's handling of the Madeleine case, as well as their operational processes in general is not racist, as well you know. And that is what many on this blog are pushing for. As you know, we dont allow mistakes and poor processes to go unchallenged within our own police forces,yet you appear to be suggesting that this be allowed to happen in Portugal. The PJ and no other police force deserved to go unquestioned, they are accountable for their actions. And yes, I am Australian too.

Gina, havent you yet learned what that other blog (A's) is about. There is nothing about truth, it is all about protecting the image of the PJ. And to do this, of course the McCanns have to be guilty of something more than leaving the children alone. Stop listening to those on the other blogs and start looking at the lack of evidence and lack of charges. I have always thought you to be fair and questioning. Go beyond the personal interpretations and you will find nothing of any substance, nothing that the DX could even use in a libel defense. That should tell you a lot.

Last comment by me on this.

dianeh said...

Hi ST

Nice to see your comment. Well said.

Sass said...

Hiya Doby

Nice to see you, too. Haven't yet seen the deleted posts properly, so will have a look!

Dobywallah said...

Fellow posters, don't know if I've mentioned this before but am away on vacation next Tuesday for three weeks but please don't tell all the burglars or Alsabella!

supertroll said...

Thank you Diane,

I normally don't comment on the case,but all these racism accusations make me mad.

BTW still no news about the Dewsbury goat, I think we must raise awareness over this issue...

ST

Sass said...

Christabel

Dad and I went shopping to avoid a hoover bag situation! I got to suggest some presents for my mum and he chose the anniversary present he thought the most appropriate! The Easter egg was my executive decision!

Christabel said...

Hi Doby,
I am also a lady of leisure and have been for a long long time, am not usually up that early, but tomorrow I have to be, as rather a busy day.
My kids are older than my teeth now, lol, so only hubby and me at home.

dianeh said...

And I would like to say also, that I have posted previously that by focusing on the supposed neglect issue of the Madeleine case, the anti's are (probably unintentionally, please forgive them they know not what they do) reducing the responsibililty of the abductor in this crime. The whole responsibility lies with the abductor. They are 100% guilty. All that leaving the children alone did was provide an opportunity and this was unintentional. The abductor did not have to take up the opportunity, they are therefore 100% guilty. The abductor needs to be pursued, found and prosecuted. Chasing after the McCanns for neglect is not going to aid this search and will probably be used to cause doubt in the minds of the jury when and if the abductor is ever found.

Sass said...

Doby

Have a lovely time!

Supertroll

Hiya! Know what you mean about the accusations of racism. It is a real insult to those who are genuine victims of racism.

Hiya Dianeh

Nice to see you again!

Dobywallah said...

SASSY.
May have misled you there, my deleted post was on Alsabella's 'need to know the truth' blogs, not on here!

dianeh said...

ST

I nearly wet my pants over the goat. I can forgive Irina because of her English (she almost go it right) but your last comment on the goat was what set me off. I just couldnt let it pass.

JANEGT said...

doby

my friend. I have to correct you here. Itwas, after all, the Easter Weekend, and we are not here 24/7 unlike other blogs.

Chinadoll was supported at great length by Rosepops asI saw when I read back. I was ou at the time but keep reading all posts. Thereafter, many many many people commentted on Chinadoll's contribution here. we all log in at different times anyway, but oon an Easter Weekend, we are not lifejackets stapled to a person's body, but we are A FRIENDLY UNITED FRONT who care genuinely about all kknown regular posters here and those who come in good faith.

As we see today and before, some don't.

Chinadoll is fine, well, and wywiwyg as ever. She is busy over Easter. She chose not t respond further as she had clearly and at length said all she could possibly say. If the person posted to could not understand that....well........!!!!

enough said.

Chinadoll is made of stronger stuff and she will return.

god help us all.

;o)))))))))))))))))))))))


hey chinadoll
swymamwys ? right????

dianeh said...

ST

Wet my pants URRR, laughing I mean. Just thought I better clear this up for those that havent seen the goat post on your blog.

Dobywallah said...

DIANEH.
absolutely right, agree with you wholeheartedly, excpt if the abductor happens to be found he or she should not be prosecuted but should be lynched for what they have done! Evil bastards!

supertroll said...

Diane,
Yes you are so right,
A child abductor is at large in Portugal or in neighbouring countries right now.

I really worry at times that another child will be taken again. Yet this is never discussed in the vile blogs.

But who are the antis focussing all their hatred on?

So much for caring about children...

Sass,
Viv has accused Rosie many times of calling her a nazi...Rat jumps on that, saying that as she is jewish it is extremely offensive to her for someone to use such accusations.

However 2345 in a post described me as Hitler. Rat was also posting at the time and she never said a thing against this. Pure hypocrisy.

ST

Sass said...

Doby

No I understood what you meant! I mean I haven't seen Bianca's deleted posts yet. Sorry, my mind is falling asleep and my body is about to follow!

See you tomorrow I hope!

Off now! Bye everyone!

Christabel said...

Dianeh,
glad you cleared that up.
I thought incontinence pads for a minute lol !

Sass said...

Hiya Supertroll

I remember those ridiculous calls of racism towards Rosie on the DX. Basically it was whenever Rosie said anything with the word "Portuguese" in it!!! Complete insanity.

Off now - see ya!

Christabel said...

Sass,
Nite and Bless xx
see you late tomorrow night lol.

chinadoll said...

Just spent an eternity reading back on the posts.

Strange, how certain people seize on the opportunity to criticise Rosiepops and accuse her of racism, without, actually reading the article in question and veryifying the link supplied.

We have the Daily Telegraph delivered every morning and, as far as balance is concerned imo, you will not get a more balanced broadsheet

Christabel said...

Hey China,
you heard me shout you then ?

Tulip said...

I'm also off for a 10-day break from Friday. No internet but I can still get the papers. I wonder what, if anything, will happen on the 'case' while I'm away?

Anyway, good night to everyone left here.

Oh -- welcome back China!

supertroll said...

Sass,
Being called a racist is pretty libellous, Mum21 also gets a lot of abuse. It is madness.

Did you read last night in the Vile blog that LGC actually writes comedy and satyre for the BBC?

I now believe that she is behind the Teletubbies script.

ST

Dobywallah said...

SASSY.
Goodnight to you and everyone else, gone ten and things to do so hope we can all get together tomorrow! Goodnight. X

Christabel said...

Supertroll,

Teletubbies crap.
They talk through their A***s too, don't they.

Christabel said...

Doby,

Nite and Bless xx

Tulip said...

My granddaughter watches Teletubbies. I shall urge a boycott.

But it does explain why LGC's posts say the same thing over and over again.

Now I really am off.

supertroll said...

Christabel,

Yes they do, and they don't have much to say either...

JANEGT said...

DOBY

GOOD NIGHT TO YOU

SEE YOU SOON

;O)

Christabel said...

Tulip,
Nite and Bless xx

JANEGT said...

TULIP

GOOD NIGHT TO YOU TOO

supertroll said...

Goodnight Doby and Tulip.

Boycott? I wan't my license fee back!

Christabel said...

Has anybody here seen Rosie, song coming on girls.

Rosiepops said...

Hi China

great to see you xxx

JANEGT said...

C H I N A D O L L

WHERE HAVE YOU PUT MY WINE OPENER?



OH DEAR.

HA HA HA HA HA

LOVELY TO SEE YOU BACK TO GIVE US MORE ABUSE. HEE HEE HEE HEE

i MISSED it. wysiwyg
and swymamwys is right. good on ya

JANEGT said...

christabel

I would like to say she's behind you but she's beneath you

ha ha ha

Rosiepops said...

Christabel

I hope that the usual time is OK.

I have had a slight change of plan so may also not be arounf on Thursday.

JANEGT said...

risk alert *****to disrupt blog

I HAVE NEW neighbours. They have just planted a huge tub of pampas grass in front lawn.

hmmmmm

advice anyone???????

ps I joke a lot, this is actually true.

dianeh said...

SuperTroll and Tulip

I let my little ones watch Teletubbies, the little boy just loves them. He seems to understand everything they say, which I thought was pretty cute but now I worried about subversive influences and brainwashing.

No more teletubbies for my son.

Rosiepops said...

Mum and China

I agree re the Telegraph, it is usually a balanced paper.

It is obvious that these people hurling abuse and accusations had not properly read the article, if they had they would have see "The Telegraph" and a link given to the article.

Could have save pRat a trip to her solicitor lol

Christabel said...

Rosie,
where ya bin woman?

Yes usual time is fine with me.
Looking foreward to it, at last.

chinadoll said...

I really do fear that the pj are on the verge of becoming a international disgrace.

I feel in my heart, that the people of Portugal are becoming embarassed and given the choice, would like to distance themselves from this disgraceful investigation.
Talk about prolonging the agony.

Come on pj, put your cards on the table and admit that you do not even have a hand,

let alone a hand..le on things.

Rosiepops said...

Has anyone seen an ESCAPED GOAT? it was last seen in the Dewsbury area.

dianeh said...

Jane

My advice

Enjoy it, we have no grass/lawn anymore, all died plus most of the garden in the drought (which is still going by the way). The only thing still growing is the weeds, pity that they can make lawn grow as though it were weeds.

Rosiepops said...

Supertroll and Diane

bOth great posts.

ST

I knew we would get a comment out of you at somepoint, it is the hypnotic influence of this board lol

dianeh said...

Rosie

I am very concerned about the goat. ST said she would keep us in the loop if anything happens to the goat.

Christabel said...

China,
I really do fear that the pj are on the verge of becoming a international disgrace.

..............................
Think your a bit late with that one China lol.

Rosie, no goat but saw a cow mooing for help earlier lol.

Rosiepops said...

Diane

Are you sure you haven't nicked Irina's goat and he has eaten all your grass?

supertroll said...

Rosiepops,

Thank you.
the goat thing is a mistery,
How did W yorkshire police turn Shannon's abductor into a goat in the first place? Very odd.
Hopefully there will be a press conference soon.

chinadoll said...

Alright you lot,

What is the coup about the goat?

dianeh said...

China

Knew you would be back.

I agree about the PJ. The Portugese people deserve better. From comments I have seen on other blogs there are many Portugese who question the PJ and their methods. I am not going back to provide links but I have seen comments on newspaper forums and other sites. The Portugese government should take matters into their own hands and hold a full and open inquiry, even providing whistleblower protection (is that what you call it in the UK) for those who fear to come forward.

There are many PJ officers who do a good and thorough job and they deserve recognition of the job they do. But while the PJ is being ridiculed around the world, this is not going to happen. They also deserve better.

JANEGT said...

SUPERTROLL

OF COURSE THE
ANTI'S ARE CONSISTENT

in sustained, unattributed, regular, unwarranted, scandalous abuse. Of anyone who gets in their way. I have seen them deprecate other people personally who post with a name, eg me, and am immediately deleted, despite a post of mine, altered, and attacked, but I was given no right of reply. Yes, they apply standards if you could ever call them that, to NON ANTIS that they do not apply nor give the privilege to others of.......and so on and so on I have files and files of it.

They allow in their blog what the overtly and openly highly critical criticise in ours. Hypocrites?? Far too mild???
Blatant Liars????

No, they cannot sue me I can prove my complaints from the libellous names they have called me and many others here, and the threats to me and many others I have copies of them all. I need a bigger house now. Help??

chinadoll said...

Christabel,

I hope I am not too late and furthermore, hope that they will see the error in their ways and wake up and smell the roses/coffee.

Wishful thinking perhaps.

dianeh said...

Rosie

So thats where my grass has gone??

Rosiepops said...

China

as you know I agree with you entirely, I think the majority of Portuguese are fair minded people, they would probably be agahst at what was on Alsabliar's and Viles blogs.

It is time for the PJ to do the decent thing, sett he McCann's free from their arguido status, exonerate them and then give them and their investigators every single bit of information they can to help them find Madeleine, if they did this, people would still be angry, but at least the anger would eventually calm down, if they carry on like this then it is only going to get worse.

There needs to be a public inquiry about this shambles and the sooner it is held the better.

Rosiepops said...

Diane

Blame Irina for your brown patches!

be careful though sh is in partneship with 2345!

dianeh said...

ST

On a more serious note, how could anyone in their right mind think that Shannon's abductor was being made a 'scape goat'. He was caught with her in the house, trying to hide her.

China, Irina said in a post it was an escaped goat. English problem surely but still very funny.

Christabel said...

Well ladies must say goodnight and god bless to all.

Rosie don't be too late on here tonight will you ?

xx

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