Sunday, 9 March 2008

British toddler snatch attempt in Spain echoes Madeleine McCann abduction

Could There B A Link Between These Attempted Abductions And Madeleine McCann's Abduction?


A British mum told yesterday how she fought off two intruders who tried to snatch her toddler daughter in Spain - in a chilling echo of the abduction of Madeleine McCann.
Brave Adele Spencer, 28, wrestled with the Moroccan-looking women when they broke into her home and tried to pluck 18-month old Annabelle from her high-chair.
They were forced to flee emptyhanded, leaving Adele clutching her child and screaming for the police.


The abduction attempt came just THREE days after another British family in the same town were targeted by women police believe could be the same child snatchers.

And last night aides to Kate and Gerry McCann said they are keen to find out more about both cases - to see if there are any links to four-year-old Madeleine's abduction in Praia da Luz, Portugal, last May.
Yesterday tearful Adele cuddled her blonde daughter and admitted: "If I had been 10 seconds later she would have been gone. I'm just thankful I managed to get to Annabelle in time to save her.


"I never thought we would come close to suffering the same fate as Madeleine's parents. You read about horrific stories like theirs but you don't expect it to happen to you."


The abductors struck just after 3pm on Tuesday. Hairdresser Adele, from Wakefield, West Yorks, was alone with her daughter when the pair targeted her rented home in the popular expat town of Moraira, Costa Blanca.
She had left Annabelle fast asleep in her high chair in the living room and was hanging up clothes in an adjoining bedroom in the whitewashed villa.


Fiance Carl, 38, from Leeds, was at work spraypainting cars in the nearby town of Benissa.
Adele said: "When I am alone I always lock the front door from the inside but I'd just put some washing out to dry on the terrace and was busy with other things so it slipped my mind.


"Annabelle had fallen asleep in her chair in the living room with the fastening-in straps still on and cuddling up to her favourite comfort blanket. I often leave her to drift off in her high-chair after feeding her, then put her down in her cot.
"I'd hung two or three items of clothing up in the next bedroom when I heard a tiny noise.
"I thought it was Annabelle waking up but when I went in to see her two Moroccan-looking women were standing over her, one on either side.
"They had taken her blanket from her and were about to try to lift Annabelle out of her chair. My legs buckled under me at first and I felt like I was going to be sick with the shock. But suddenly I came round and I just started screaming over and over, 'Get out of my house, get out of my house'.
"They started walking backwards slowly towards the door and the next minute, I threw myself at the older woman. I lunged at her face and throat as I tried to push her out of the house."



The pair ran outside where a blue car was waiting for them. A man, in his sixties, was driving the car which raced away when Adele screamed for someone to call the police.
While she waited for officers to turn up hysterical Adele called fiancee Carl to tell him someone had tried to take their baby.


Carl, 38, said: "The feeling that goes through your body when someone rings to say they've just tried to snatch your daughter is indescribable.

"I gave Annabelle the biggest cuddle of her life when I got back home and saw she was safe."

Adele told police one of the would-be abductors was aged between 50 and 60, overweight and of Moroccan appearance with a black headdress. Her accomplice was in her 30s, wearing black trousers and a dark-coloured baggy jumper.
Spanish police are linking the attempted kidnap to a separate bid to snatch a three-year-old British boy in the same town.


The incident happened three days earlier, raising fears that a gang are looking for young children to steal.

Mandy Crew, 40, has picked out a police photofit of a Spanish gypsy as the woman who tried to snatch her three-year-old son Jack from her home - a five-minute walk from Adele's villa.
Mandy said:


"The woman was overweight and in her fifties just like the one Adele saw. She also got into a car similar to the one Adele has described. It was also driven by a man in his sixties but there was another passenger in the back. I don't know if it was the same woman but I do know that she was after my son.
"When I ran after her screaming, she claimed she was only after clothes. But she walked past a clothes horse, Jack's expensive toys and my handbag full of valuables to get to within inches of my son. There's no doubt in my mind she wanted to snatch my child."


Civil Guard officers who quizzed Adele and her fiance have told them they believe the intruders were thieves. And locals say a gypsy woman fitting the description of the older intruder preys on homes along the Costa Blanca and is well-known for trying to steal people's washing.
But Adele, who is finalising plans to move to Spain to join Carl permanently, is certain there is more to it and doesn't think the police are doing enough.


She said: "I'm sure the language I heard the woman speaking wasn't Spanish. And shortly before I caught her in our house, I'd just hung a load of washing out to dry on the front terrace. She walked past that and Gucci sunglasses, car keys, a pop-out car stereo and my mobile phone to get to Annabelle.
"The police have shown us photofit pictures and I picked out one woman who could have been her, but it's all still a bit of a blur. We are not satisfied with the police response. We feel as if they're trying to brush things under the carpet because it's coming up to the holiday season and they don't want tourists scared off by admitting there are child snatchers in the area."



The McCanns have been made aware of both incidents after a message about them was posted on the Find Madeleine McCann website.
Their spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, said last night:


"The parents have done the right thing by contacting the police. Our investigators will be seeing if there are any links between them and the disappearance of Madeleine."

Carl added: "What has happened to Madeleine is awful and it so nearly happened to us. No other parent should have to go through that suffering. We are happy to help Kate and Gerry in any way we can. Our heart goes out to them for what they are going through.

"For a brief moment we came close to losing our child and the pain is beyond words."

Children at riskPolice in Spain are looking for more than 200 children who have disappeared in the mainland and islands. In 2006, they investigated more than 80 suspected child abduction cases. Police in Portugal have 21 missing children's files and are looking into 40 abduction complaints.
'For a moment we knew what McCanns suffer'


Sunday Mirror 9th March 2008

http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/sunday/2008/03/09/two-women-broke-into-our-home-and-tried-to-snatch-our-little-girl-i-had-to-fight-them-off-i-thought-of-madeleine-98487-20344918/

  • What Do You Think?
  • Is There A Much Bigger Problem In Portugal and Spain?
  • How Safe Are Our Children and Grandchildren When On Holiday In Portugal and Spain?
  • Is There A Problem Which Is Being Covered Up? For Fear Of Damaging Two Countries Who Rely On Multi-Billion Pound Tourist Industry?
  • We Are All Part of the European Union, What Is The EU Doing To Investigate This Matter?
  • What Can We Actually Do To Put Pressure On The Governments of Portugal and Spain To Act?

194 comments:

Rosiepops said...

What Do You Think?

Is There A Much Bigger Problem In Portugal and Spain?

How Safe Are Our Children and Grandchildren When On Holiday In Portugal and Spain?

Is There A Problem Which Is Being Covered Up? For Fear Of Damaging Two Countries Who Rely On Multi-Billion Pound Tourist Industry?

We Are All Part of the European Union, What Is The EU Doing To Investigate This Matter?

What Can We Actually Do To Put Pressure On The Governments of Portugal and Spain To Act?

Rosiepops said...

This is a spine chilling story and one that every single parent and grandparent should be aware of when they go on holiday this year. In fact every single person should be aware and go around with "Eyes Wide Open"

I am sick and tired of hearing people trying to blame Kate and Gerry because someone abducted their daughter, this has now descended into a laughable farce, which in my opinion the PJ have encouraged, to divert attention away from what appears to be emerging in Portugal and Spain.

Too much attention has been paid trying to blame Kate and Gerry McCann for their daughter's abduction and not enough time has been spent actually looking for Madeleine and concentrating on what looks to be a spine chilling problem, in these two countries.

Do we really have to wait for another successful abduction before something is done about this problem?

In the event of another successful child abduction is the finger of suspicion going to be pointed yet again at the child's parents, while these abductors are getting away with the most heinous of crimes?

How many times can the police get away with doing this?

How many excuses about how it is always someone else's fault?

How many children are going to suffer and their family's pulled apart in a disgusting public spectacle?

When is someone going to force these two countries to admit that they have a problem, one which is putting in danger every single child living in and visiting Spain and Portugal?

melbel said...

Hi
In a situation where the Portugese do not hold a Paedophile register and seem in denial about the extent of the problem,it is impossible to define the extent of the problem.
These mothers seem sure that an attempt was made abduct their child,so it is a bit worrying that some of the Police are blaming thieves.
It is the same in Goa, where Scarlett's mother had to fight to overturn the initial postmortem conclusion of accidental drowning and it has now been proven that there was foul play.
In Jersey, initial reports are suggesting collusion and corruption in local politicians and Police.
They are all tourist areas and seem keen, like Portugal,to sweep away any suggestions that there are dangers and potential criminals,abductors and murderers at large.
It does not fool anyone though and people will draw their own conclusions and go to countless other tourist destinations with sun and beauty.
As for Mediterranean child rearing practices being so superior too, I have noticed young children playing out late and unsupervised in various countries.
In Portugal, a child has been taken from her bed or alternatively wandered out and been taken by an opportunist predator.
Whatever the Portugese posters say,it looks highly suspicious to me that Joann's body was not found and her mother beaten by Police.If this mother is innocent, the POlice and Portugese society have done another good job in brainwashing people.
WE have had our own scandals in UK, where there have been miscarriages of justice and are not so dangerously naive and uncritical.
For a start, how can such brainwashed people feel that they are in a position to try people,all on speculation and totally unsubstantiated leaks?
The EEC should be standardising procedures to do with missing and abused children and forcing those who are way behind, to catch up.
Otherwise it is a meaningless pile of pants, if it does not address the issues that matter to people.

Christabel said...

My god Rosie,
Haven't we heard these descriptions before ?
They are very similar to the Moroccan sightings, don't you think ?
I always said and still do that the picture of that Moroccan family was false and the woman shown on TV was not the man/woman in the picture, neither was it Bouchra.
1) The picture we saw of Bouchra actually on her mothers back, you could see the child's legs dangling at the sides.

2) The picture that was taken at the time, all you could see is the child's head (nothing else).

3) The picture we saw of Bouchra's mother, still apparently in the same clothes worn on that day and not a big built woman.

4) The picture taken at the time, showed a big built not very feminine woman/man, and as I have said before the man with them wearing black head wear was a very odd picture. He was dressed in women's clothing carrying a white handbag and holdall(if it is a woman she needs a shave). If you look at this picture another odd thing about it is his arms, one comes as far has his waist, the other comes down past his hips.
This picture has been altered WHY ?
He also has on a mans wristwatch.

If anyone does not have these pic's, I will send them to you!

Rosiepops said...

Melbel

BRAVO!

What a post and very very well put, this is exactly what I feel, it is exactly how scared I am for ALL children in these countries and not just those holidaying.

I cannot believe that all Portuguese are typical of those that post on these blogs and newspaper forums. I have to believe that people are far more sensible and critical that this. I have to have more faith in the people of both countries that they will not take this kind of behaviour from their police and their governments.
We and I do mean *WE* have to put pressure on all our governments to act and if we have to be a member of the European Union where we are forced to accept changes that we do not necessarily want, but accept for the greater good of all Europe, then the EU has to start listening to US, all of us European Citizens, they cannot keep ignoring us and allowing such third world practises to continue.

I believe that there is a growing ground swell of people that are beginning to feel distinctly uneasy about what is happening in Portugal and in Spain.

People are beginning to realise that there is something very very wrong in Portugal and it is now creeping into Spain, where next? Who next? Which child in which town/village/city?

The holiday season is approaching and I urge all those thinking of going to Portugal to think again and to choose another safer destination, until the Portuguese government sort out this dreadful mess their awful bullying police force is in.

The Portuguese PJ in the top five elite police forces in the world?
My God I would not want to see those at the bottom!

Change only happens with pressure from us citizens, it can only happen with pressure from us citizens. I know Britain is far from perfect, but I also know that in now way shape or form would this country's people stand for the third rate police force and their gross incompetence, their alleged spurious leaks and their apparent bullying of people whose child has been abducted.

It would not happen and we should not allow it to happen anywhere else in Europe either.

Rosiepops said...

Christabel!

Please send me those pictures so I can have a closer look!

I always wondered how people could have been so sure that this was the people in that photograph?

I am a bit startled about this, because the MO in that photograph could fit the MO of these attempted abductors.

Something strange about this look at how many people involved 3 or 4. What better way to conceal a child than right in the middle of a family unit.
A lot of things people have said and the descriptions they have given is beginning to sound eerie.

Christabel said...

Rosie,
sent them with some additional ones which you will find very interesting !

Mandz said...

What is going on………….? Why are we not aware of this “problem” From that article both women highlighted that these women walked past the washing etc and the police putting it down to “thieves”???
Perhaps they take the washing to make it look like a petty crime however they are taking children? This is an utter outrage and the British People need to be aware and thank you to whoever posted this because I will be more vigilant when I’m there.

calcite51 said...

Rosiepops and Christabel - before we get to carried away - I believe the pictures were examined by either Scotland Yard or FBI and it was definitely NOT madeleine.

I've often looked at the pictures too - because I think the first one, it looks very much like Madeleine.

Rosiepops said...

Christabel

Thanks, I am just going to have a look now.

I am going to ask Sassy if we can get them in here on the right hand side.

Mandz,

Again, it is police just trying to sweep this under the carpet, how can it be thieves when they have walked passed valuables to get to the child?

Something is very wrong here and I have a feeling that the police are just going to ignore this until the inevitable happens.

Rosiepops said...

Calicte

you are correct I think the photo's were examined by experts, don't know whos experts though, because if I remember correctly the woman that took the photographs was a Spanish woman called Ms Torres? How would Scotland Yard have got her photographs?

Now you have got me thinking, I know they were examined, but would really like to know by whom.

Christabel said...

Calcite,
It depends if they were shown to them, at this time nobody could get a look in because the PJ didn't want help, and these others were given to quickly for my liking as was the finding of the whole family.
If these pictures are true pictures, somebody needs glasses and better software.
It is the same as the one with someone behind the climbing frame, when Gerry was playing with the kids when that chap was there watching them.

supertroll said...

Afternoon Everyone,

Hope you are all well. That was an interesting post and having been in both countries, my opinion is that there wasn't a bigger problem in Portugal and Spain, but there is a growing one.

I think this problem is new, and mainly not down to local Portuguese or Spaniards. This may be why these countries are not reacting fast enough.

The police forces from both countries need to become more aware of this.

There should be an international European sex offender's register. Many sex offenders from Britain and other countries have emigrated to both these countries and started again there with a blank slate.

They do not have to sign at their local police stations and the criminal pasts of many are not know to the local police.

I know of at least three british men who are paedophiles, living in a small Spanish resort.

When they go for people, they don't target the locals, they go for young people who are on holiday or the sons/daughters of other British Expats. I don't want to scare people from going to Spain or Portugal on holiday as these attacks are still quite rare, but I think there is definitely a legal loophole which is being exploited by some.

Other offenders may be immigrants from poorer countries that get into organised crime and will target children to order.

Regards
ST

calcite51 said...

Christabel - I know what you're saying (about the PJ's) but I think it was either the FBI or Scotland Yard did manage to get the pictures, did whatever tests to determine if the first one was Madeleine and stated conclusively that it was NOT Madeleine.

Mandz said...

Well said Rosie!

It appears they are scared that the Tourist Industry will decline. IMO the “tourists” don’t matter or children being taken away just bring in the money please and leave quietly.

What will it take for them to wake up and TAKE ACTION…? A classic example was the McCann family who attempted to put pictures up of Maddie in Lisbon airport and were refused by the police and pushed out the door. Disgusting.

Some Portuguese posters appear more bothered about their police reputation and their nationality than CHILDREN GOING MISSING??
If they want to ignore it then fine however these evil nasty creatures are NOT TAKING OUR CHILDREN and we must continue to SHOUT about it because WE CARE.

How dare they deny us what is going on and the DANGERS OF CHILD ABDUCTORS in their Country.

supertroll said...

Changing the subject,

I was having a real chuckle earlier at the vile site seeing Chinadoll's attack on Viv over her pet. Well done Chinadoll!!!

Poor bird, have you seen the picture, the background is awful with those hanging cables and cobwebs?

And why has she named her parrot after a parakeet. The poor animal is going to get a complex!

She posted this post earlier which also made me laugh:

felicity said...
Hiya Dillie

My son is currently putting a super pic of my red lored amazon on my computer for me and he will get his own thread where we can talk about our gorgeous pets.

I visited a couple last night who have two parrots and two dogs. I actually thought the alsation was going to eat me alive but boldly continued into their home with the usual entreaty, dont worry she wont hurt you. Blood pressure has just gone back down a bit now:-)

One of the parrots eyed me suspiciously but would not talk. The other one went as far away as possible and turned its back. My bird sometimes offers people this treatment!

Luv Viv x

Saturday, March 8, 2008 2:52:00 PM PST

Every single animal had a reaction to her.

She has said in other posts how much she wants to hug Eddie and Keela, I would love to see the reactions there hehe.

Regards
ST

Christabel said...

Rosie,

I think all these attempted abductions are happening because they know there is a good chance of getting away stock free.
If this is the case, what are people going to think.

Like the article from 1991, it said
Moreover, the police in Huelva investigating the possible existence of a network of traffic in children's organs for transplants, as one of the assumptions in an attempt to find the girl Huelva nine years Jerez Ana Maria Cano, who had disappeared on February 16 , according to sources close to the investigation, reported.

Hello 1991, it is now 2008.
No problems in Portugal though !! Bla !

Christabel said...

Calcite,

It may not have been Madeleine but what I am saying is, It wasn't Bouchra or her mother either.
It was all done and dusted far to quick, by PJ timing anyway lol !

Mandz said...

ST,

Clever animals..!!!

calcite51 said...

ST - Diane was trying to post on Viv's blog but she was unable to. Have anyone else been able to post or has she closed it down until the PJ's come down next week and do their reinterviewing?

calcite51 said...

I'd like to see Keela and Eddie's reactions to 2345.

Christabel said...

Supertroll,

"THATS THE WAY TO DO IT"

parrot speak lol !

calcite51 said...

Christabel - I agree - I didn't think the first picture was of Bouchra and her mom.

supertroll said...

Calcite,

I don't know, I haven't posted there since yesterday morning.
I try not to post there too often.

I think you would definitely get a reaction from Eddie and Keela if they went near 2345.

And Leigh, and Plainwaters...

2345 said that posts on this blog need to be examined by a forensic psychologist!

No comment.
ST

Christabel said...

Calcite,

I think that would be good to see Keela and Eddie's reactions to 2345, a good sniff and they would say "woof woof nutcase".
As you know she says they do not lie lol !

supertroll said...

Thank you Christabel,

Now I am going to have to change the picture of Viv on my blog.

I am thinking someone more prone to have a parrot.

Someone with a wooden leg, an eye patch and a beard perhaps?

AAAAARGH!

ST

calcite51 said...

I almost got banned from this bunch when I suggested I should invite 2345 into our blog as she seemed to be all by herself on Alsabella's blog.

I didn't read the comment about from 2345 about this blog. Did Alsabella delete it?

supertroll said...

Calcite,

It was posted on Viv's blog.
Here it is:

2345 said...
Felicity,

It's good to have a 'refresher' of McCann sycophants. It would be fascinating to read psychologists/criminal profilers reports on their supporters, wouldn't it ?

I must again congratulate you on your commitment and experize which clearly continues to raise quite insane wrath. 9.10 a.m.

Regards
ST

calcite51 said...

I have to go to work (don't normally work on Sunday but have a lot of catch up to do) with my aunt's funeral and I was sick last week.

Rosie, your comment to me about the PJ's coming to my home - I don't think I have too much to worry about - their record is not too good for finding people. The PJ's seem to have trouble finding England, never mind CANADA.

calcite51 said...

Do you think I should write to 2345 and give her the information that the police found on me? A bit of background - when my daughter was 16, her bestfriend's mother remarried and the bestfriend who was not coping well with her mother, never mind the new husband. Short version is that the mother kicked the daughter out - daughter came to live with me. Mother requested a police investigation on me (rightfully so). The report came back that I was clean as a whistle - not even a parking ticket or jaywalking ticket.

Christabel said...

Calcite,
you do that and you will be banned permanently.
There's enough of her drivel on the other 2 sites from what I hear on this blog.
She will find something the police missed when they checked you out lol !

Supertroll.

Aye JIM LAD hows me hearty's.

calcite51 said...

ST - you are probably right - or she could take a comment I innocently made would be blown out of proportion and next I would be a child neglector or abuser or something.

supertroll said...

Calcite,

She would do it pretty fast, so be careful.
Look how long it took her to find a conspiracy theory over poor Mari Luz's father.

She is a very insane creature.

ST

calcite51 said...

Farewell everyone! I owe, I owe, it's off to work I go.

Will check in again when I return home.

Have a good day everyone and in case I don't catch up with you later - good nite.

SassyP said...

Supertroll

Was just looking at the argument between Chinadoll and Vile. Hysterical.

Also that post you posted ending in:
___________________________________

I must again congratulate you on your commitment and experize which clearly continues to raise quite insane wrath. 9.10 a.m.
___________________________________

Why was that written in the "My favourite pet" section of the Justice for Maddie bleugh????

Rosiepops said...

Hi,

No the photograph may not be Madeleine but having looked at them closely it doesn't look like Bouchra either, for a start the hair was wrong and that is what struck me instantly. Bouchra looks like she has really thick hair and the style is different and the lay is different, it is a different cut.
I agree with Christabel too, this was done and dusted far too quickly for the PJ, after all w are talking about a police force who have take 10 months to write a few letters to question a few people! (And they are still not here - yet)

I think you are correct Supertroll, Spain and Portugal do have a growing problem with paedophiles from all countries, especially Portugal. Portugal still hasn't got a sex offenders register despite everything that has happened they still haven't got one and they need a DNA based sex offenders register sharp! They had nothing to check the DNA that was discovered in the McCann's apartment that did not belong to the McCann family, did they think to check it against other countries DNA base registers?

Talking of intruders what about all these people sen hanging around outside the McCann's apartment? Some looking in the windows? What about Mrs Fenn's apartment situated above 5a? She actually had an intruder in hers, all these eye witness statements have one thing in common they are all describing the same kind of people dark hair, darkish skin etc.

When are the PJ going to do some detective work?

Sounds like a gang is operating here and what happened to the CCTV footage that was supposed to have shown men smoking outside the Mccann's apartment the night before Madeleine went missing, where is that? I thought it was sent off to the US to be enhanced?

Why didn't the PJ pick all the cigarette butts up outside the apartment and get them DNA tested and then check them against Spain and Portugal's DNA bases? And the Uk's?

Have the PJ done anything at all this past 10 months?

supertroll said...

Rosiepops,

Who knows what has been done... hopefully all these things have been examined because it makes sense to do so.

I didn't know Portugal didn't have a DNA database. In my opinion, there should be a European one.

There are too many cases coming out which would have been solved ages ago had there been one or where someone would have not had the chance to reoffend.

ST

JANEGT said...

supertroll

on your recommendation went to view chinadoll's posts to Viv last nite re pets. What a HOOT. ( ooops no pun intended...) She (Chinadoll naturally) was on form. ha ha ha

I noticed later Viv/Felicity accused MANDZ OF BEING CHINADOLL. ha ha ha ha how stupid can you get??

I do hope Chinadoll gets a google account so she can post here again, we miss her.

Gotta go now, see you later I hope, got meal to start now.

supertroll said...

Sassy,

Maybe 2345 is commending Viv's expertise on parrots?

ST

supertroll said...

I have to go too.

My kids are demanding drinks and food.

Have a nice afternoon and catch you all later.

Regards
ST

Rosiepops said...

Sassy

just been having a look myself and a laugh good old China, I don't think Viv quite knew what to do with her.

Why has Felicity got a my favourite pet section on a Justice for Madeleine blog?
Felicity seem to have a thing about accusing other people of harming pets.
She accused me of killing my pet dog the other week, this was designed to hurt of course because the nasty cow knew I had just had to have my beloved dog put to sleep, pity she forgot to tell people he was 15 years old!
Now she is accusing China of killing her pets!

Clearly abnormal thought processes there, does this mean that felicity harms pets? Now I am worried for that poor little parrot!

Rosiepops said...

Supertroll

I think you are correct re the European DNA data base, but unless we pressurise for one it wont happen. I to about time that us citizens started to tell these Euro MPs exactly what we want.

For now I think we have to pressure on the Portuguese government to act over the deplorable state of the Madeleine McCann investigation.

I really am terrified that another child is going to be taken and we have to stop this happening.

See you later children must have their juice lol

melbel said...

Hiya
I am like the little white rabbit, here, there and everywhere.
We are not nice elderly ladies, according to Claudia, recently.
How ageist is that !
They must expect people of a certain age to sit on rocking chairs all day.
I could not believe my eyes when I saw the parrot on Viv's site.
Hope she will be sick as a parrot when the Police come[ which, I do not believe she would dare involve because of the countless acts of libel on her site.
maybe she is trying to look human.
it will not do her any good, when they come with the straight jacket
It upsets me when I see the picture of G on her blog.
It looks like a hounded and very upset man to me, maybe not far from tears.I only feel compassion.
so much for your knowledge and interpretation of body language, viv.
You need to be a member of the human race, to understand people and their feelings.
When you are just a control freak, with a big ego,you have lost all contact with reality.
Like Super and all of us, I cannot get my head around many of the antis.They are abusive and an affront to human decency.

JANEGT said...

Melbel Hi there

they do not know what human decency means.....and it shows, and how.....

peeling veg at mo urgh.

catch you later

melbel said...

Hiya Jane
Have a good meal.I was on the DE site, at one point,yesterday, in a discussion about roly poly pudding!
They will be taking me away, too.

JANEGT said...

is that roly poly pudding as in Amaral or food...

!!!

ha ha ha

never had that since dinner school.

melbel said...

A bit of both, chuck.X
I was explaining that When I make home baked bread [rare ], the birds cannot take off, if I leave any out, in the garden, as it is so heavy !

Rosiepops said...

Another Lie Exposed!

So much for the McCann's cutting and running after being made arguidos!

Where Have The Leaks that Have Harmed Kate and Gerry So Much, Come from?

Would You Like To See This Practice Coming To A Police Station Near You?

At first it was assumed that the more wild stories were the fanciful inventions of an unfettered press. However, it was soon realised how well they allegedly reflected the thinking of the PJ. Apparently the stories were being fed to the press by the PJ, allegedly from the highest ranks. So much for judicial secrecy. One Portuguese journalist said “that segredo de justica – secrecy of justice – was like the speed limit. Everyone knows the law; nobody keeps to it.”

When Kate and Gerry were to be made arguidos Kate was to go to the nearby town of Portimao the next day, Thursday, September 6, to be questioned by detectives from the Policia Judiciaria (PJ). It would be Gerry’s turn the day after.

For the media this would be a shocking new twist to the story – but not for the McCanns:

the PJ had told them four weeks earlier they were going to be subjected to formal interviews and the McCanns had stayed on, instead of going home at the end of August as originally planned, waiting for the interviews to take place. Waiting. Waiting.

Finally, the PJ called. They told the McCanns they would be made official suspects – arguidos. The McCanns had noted the change of mood in Portugal, especially among the PJ, and the increasing viciousness of the Portuguese press. Some of the stories seemed so incredible and far-fetched – Kate, for instance, disposing of Madeleine’s body, or Madeleine’s DNA being found in the car the McCanns had hired three weeks after Madeleine disappeared!
The Times

The more that I see and read the more I realise how badly the McCann's are being treated by the PJ.

melbel said...

It is awful, Rosie,the cruelty this family have been subjected to and the way they have been tied in knots,all the way.Whereas, I take everything in the tabloids with a pinch of salt, the Times is a different kettle of fish and has world respect.
The bungling inefficiency gets me too.
On an article on A's blog recently, it was suggested that there were numerous people the PJ wanted to speak to in UK.
Why have they not done it yet ?

Tinkerbell43 said...

The story on the front reminds me of something little Yeremi's mum said:-

"These cases are like a new epidemic - a complete mystery in tiny windows of time with parents nearby"

"So many coincidences, too many for them to be random happenings"

"Its easy to move to Spain and Portugal - they could even be the same people behind these disappearences"

Personally, I've always thought this is far bigger than just Madeleine.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hi everyone :0) Hope you are having a good Sunday.

melbel said...

Hi Tinks
Yes, I agree that there is a lot more to this than we know.
People can move around so easily, today.
it is no good any one country thinking that they are immune.
We saw the defensiveness of the Portugese posters on the DE.
We must all work together, in some way, to stop the agonies of ordinary parents and children, who were just unlucky, as these things can happen in such a short time space.

melbel said...

Bye for now, Jane, Tinks and Rosie.I have to get some food thrown on the table.
I caught up on Chinadoll's posts on Vile's site and laughed out loud re the parrot.talk about animal body language !Always trust the animals to get it right about people !
take care.
May be back later, but have a fair bit to do, today.Xxx

Tinkerbell43 said...

Bye for now Melbel. xx

Mandz said...

Mellbel ,
Yes why don’t they come and speak to people themselves after all they have been here a few times. They also got the British and German police to send letters out asking people who were holiday there to come forward to have DNA done to eliminate them from enquiry? Why was this not done then? Everything seem to be manyana manyana & the McCann’s did say that was the approach taken when the little soul was taken and we can see this for ourselves.

Mandz said...

Jane,

So Chinadoll in now me...???

Mandz said...

With these cases there appears to be similarities: thieves coming into people houses, attempted child abductions and child abductions. Can they not see that???

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hi Mandz, you are right the McCs did allegedly say the PJ played down the disappearance from the minute Gerry approached them.

Wasn't it reported that the search was only upgraded to a major investigation after the intervention of the British Ambassador John Buck.

Mandz said...

Hi Tinks

Yes it was. P.McCann did report this. P.McCann said on the radio Kate had to wait something like "7hours" to give a statement???

SassyP said...

Hiya you lot!

How ya doing?

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hiya Sass, good thanks and you ?

I've not seen any papers today, dare I ask any news ?

JANEGT said...

tinks hi and all too hi everyone

only 'news' I saw was a comparison of Shannon's case with Madeleine's in the telegraph.

Maybe someone else has seen more? Been yo=yoing today and how. driving daughter to a pals, then another pals, then collected her, then she walked to first pals again, and hasn't arrived for her roast chicken dinner yet.. oh dear. KIDS EH???

Yes MANDZ YOU RE KNOWS AS CHINADOLL on vile's site.....what a laugh. I wish she would come back with a google account. Did try to persuade her,,,,,but no news yet......

SassyP said...

Tinks,

Not that I could see. Did find an interesting article comparing Shannon with Madeleine. Will post it at some point - Rosie has some good ideas regarding posts for the next couple of days, so will fit it in whenever.

SassyP said...

The article I mentioned wasn't in the Telegraph though - so not the same as Jane's (unless the Telegraph copied it).

Tinkerbell43 said...

Thanks Jane & Sass.

I noticed Calcite was mentioning an article by Martin Brunt recently, I couldn't find it, I dont suppose either of you have a link do you ?

SassyP said...

Hiya Mandz

Or should I say China :-) As I once said to Rosie, printing something on Vile's site is the best way to keep a secret, so probably not too many know about "your double ID"!!!

SassyP said...

Tinkz

Sorry, but I don't know which article you mean - so, no I don't have a link!

JANEGT said...

I think the Martin Brunt article was on Sky News site, but I found it short and disappointing, nothing new. Maybe it has been updated though???

The telegraph article is quite long - just really comparing difference in way parents being treated re disappearance of the children. Interesting though.

Daughter just 'flew' in door saying not hungry watching dvd, back for it at supper. Huh. Great stuff. Her feet didn't even touch the ground. Went off with a multi pack of crisps, chocolates, and large orange juice.....so bet she won't eat her dinner when she comes in.......REEEEELELELELLE;;;D;LFD;L/

Tinkerbell43 said...

Well Mandz, me old China, how on earth have you managed to pull that one off! Got to give it to them though, there's no fooling them is there, pmsl.

SassyP said...

Jane

Not hungry and she had that lot???

SassyP said...

Yeah Mandz - it's your turn to be rumbled!!!

Tinkerbell43 said...

But Jane, if it wasn't there for her to leave she would have been starving!

JANEGT said...

Don't you all feel it is constantly old news rehashed as stories these days? Even sky news is on the McCanns suing British Papers................

I HAD A EUREKA MOMENT

Perhaps you recall Gerry's check at 9.05 pm and the door ajar? I read it that Madeleine was not IN HER BED as Gerry stated he thought she had got up for loo, or to go into the parents' room. Well, I just could not fathom how noone else read it that we, so trwled the internet to see what on earth I had misread. Didn't find it. But the next check at 9.25 the male did not go in the room, but listened outside. Later Gerry said it was possible with hindsight that the door ajar could have had the person hding there til he left, then take the child. If so, Jane Tanners statement would be valid timescale wise. I now realise I misead the fct tat MADELEINE WAS IN HER BED when Gerry noted th door ajar not the way it was left before.

Now, the person COULD have been hiding there, as a witness stated they saw Murat in Madeleine's bedroom on 3 May.

~this now pieces together and isn't as wild as at first thought.

Remember too Mrs Fenn upstairs disturbed a burglar who had a key to get in. How many keys are there available in resorts like that? A great many. That should have rung many alarm bells, but no. No way should the PJ have instantly rejected abduction as a possibility, it woul to me have been a Probability......!!!!

I am so glad I got this sorted, as it has frankly been irritating me for 9 months now. Just didn't add up. Glad I sorted it out/worked it out re the perhaps ambiguously worded article. I am not usually so dim. Thank goodness that's cleared up.

How can any police ignore missing children and pass it off as being OK to not do anything for a while. It is not. It is crucial to act immediately. If a false alarm, ok noone is harmed, but if not......

Portugal in EEC need to get their act in line with all other countries. They must not be allowed to hide behind these secrecy laws whilst at same time regularly maligning a couple who have lost their child. STINKS.

We need a register not only europe wide but even further....information passes so quickly now it should be easier, not more difficult to trace missing people. Cooperation obviously is required. They have no excuses not to cooperate in my view as the PJ have not come out at all in a good light.

JANEGT said...

sorry some missing letters, as sparks coming off my keyboard......


sorry
;o(

brain overtook fingers.

Yes, daughter round corner at chums sharing crisps, juice choccies with chum watching a dvd. Hope it's not a scary one as last time she couldn't sleep....ha ha ha......

JANEGT said...

What has happened to the taxi driver who states Kate 'lookalike' (M W had blonder hair then...???) plus Murat, and another 2 men were in his cab at 8.10 that night?? May 3??

It's so annoying stories start then we hear no more at all, they just fizzle out totally. Never known anything like it.

SassyP said...

Jane

I agree. It is annoying. What happened to the Dorset "sighting" too. They are mentioned in the papers never to be heard of again!

SassyP said...

Just read in portugualresident.com that that lawyer funding the search of the dam has ordered a new search to take place. They are restarting the search tomorrow.

Rosiepops said...

hi people

Have I missed anything?

SassyP said...

Hiya Rosie

Look at the comment above yours!

Rosiepops said...

Well apparently animals are very good judges of character, this is why they recoil away from Felicity.

I wnder what all these animals would do if they met notdoc? Run for the hills I think!

Rosiepops said...

I hope mum will be OK where she lives tonight and tomorrow, the severe weather is meant to be hitting her region quite badly.

Is everyone else going to be OK? Remember no going to work in the morning if it can be avoided and most can be. It is meant to be getting really bad around rush hour time, please be careful everyone.

You gave us wind Sass!

SassyP said...

Rosie

I think it was Tinkz (or was it you) who said I'd probably be the only one around tonight with a connection!

SassyP said...

Rosie

Did you read about the dam being checked again? That lawyer must be very certain if he is paying yet again for the dam to be searched.

Rosiepops said...

Sassy

Someone said start night that they were going to start diving again, so they are going to start tomorrow then?

We were saying that this lawyer must be really convinced of his tip off because he keeps spending his own money on it, apparently he stopped last time so he could earn some more money to fund more diving searches.

Of course Alsa3bellies said this man is a millionaire so he can afford it! That woman is such a know all, is there nothing and no one she does not know about in Portugal? She is just not credible.

I say that this man must really believe this tip off because he will not give up and apparently Metodo3 has confirmed they received some sort of confirmation about this, but the McCann's cant fund the search as they now have limited funds and are looking for a live Madeleine.

I wonder if they have searched the banks of this dam properly? In the reeds etc? Apparently the dam is huge, so if they find anything it is going to be more luck than judgement!
Again it is really annoying as this is one of the places that should be searched properly, the PJ should have ordered it and experts in tidal movements and sonar equipment etc should be brought in, but yet again this is another tip off the PJ have ignored!
Also the tip off may have given an area to search presumably? And this is where they are searching.

SassyP said...

Apart from that there are many millionaires who could afford to do it and only one who is!

JANEGT said...

Roie, Sassy and anyone else I missed...docmac has copied and pasted my post EUREKA MOMENT from here on to other site, you know who I mean, and Claudia replied to get of their site. I did not post, I simply asked docmac
''and your point is???''

I pointed out I was polite, but told to go back to my House of Filth. Have a look. The loonies have certainly taken over the asylum.

JANEGT said...

Sassy/Rosie

The lawyer is not paying for it. A building/construction firm is. They start again tomorrow.

SassyP said...

What a job that must be - a diver looking for a body. You'd be sort of hoping that there was something and sort of hoping that you aren't the one to find it! Imagine groping around in a murky dam 46 metres deep and coming across a body that has been in there for a while - absolutely horrible.

SassyP said...

Docmac was looking at our blog? Still no little SA flat - that's one awful good firewall he's got there ;-) Funnily, we have one awful good firewall at work, too yet Graz always comes up! At home, thanks to the mobile internet, I am shown as being from many places apart from where I live, but the country at least is right!

Ignore Claudia. She can hardly tell you to leave someone else's blog! She seems to have forgotten that it's Alsabella's. You know what a vicious b**ch Claudia is - all she ever does is insult. She must lead one awfully sad life.

SassyP said...

Gina

That depends - are you going to go straight back to Alsabella's and tell everyone how awful we are?

Tinkerbell43 said...

Sass, I'd read that the search is supposed to start again early hours of tomorrow morning, but I think it is being funded by a sponsor this time. I also read they have increased the number of divers. Someone seems certain of something!

SassyP said...

Gina

Thanks for the post. I know what you mean about shops being like the Daily Bugle. We have one shop where I live and it is the local info centre!

SassyP said...

Tinks and Jane

It says on the portugalresident.com site that as Jane said ít is an engineering and construction society funding it.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hi Jane,

I'll take your word for it. I wouldnt visit that bog if you paid me. House of Filth eh, spoken by the Mouth of Filth I take it!

JANEGT said...

interestingly my post on my EUREKA MOMENT taken totally out of context, has some comments on it. I have been 'warned' by Claudia impolite posts will be removed'. Well that didn't stop them before deleting perfectly polite on topic posts.

I again reminded them my post has been copied, commented on out of context and ask them yet again.

and your point is????

They then defied me to name one person who came to this blog to read us....

so I did, Gina.

Now ball in their court. Still not deleted amazingly.

We shall see. They would not take this treatment, so I do not accept them dishing it out to me. Or is it my 'turn' tonight???

They do not stand by what they say. Not at all.

SassyP said...

Jane

As we are flying the Viseu flag you could have said that Clawdia also comes over here! We have a few Portuguese and Spanish flags a-flying. Check the feedjit. It's not foolproof, but it's not bad!

SassyP said...

Gina

What did you remove your post for?

Tinkerbell43 said...

Jane, but thatd their speciality to take everything out of context!

Tell me, how did notdoc copy and paste your post without visiting our blog, Duh!

Gina said...

SassyP said...
Gina

That depends - are you going to go straight back to Alsabella's and tell everyone how awful we are?

...................................

I thought is was innocent until proven guilty. I thought you knew me better, if I have anything to say to a person I say it to their cyber face. Let's forget I bother to share that info. Bye

JANEGT said...

I am wild now

DOCMAC HAS just posted I do not know where my daughter is a lot of the time, lax British parenting. etc etc. This is not on at all.

He simply copied and pasted my ppost, now he says he was not on this site.

He did not speak about it, just held it up to be 'shot at'.....

Claudia challenged who from there posted here, so I did name Gina. She has no problems with that. It is after all a word for word copy of he post there hours ago. So what?

But accusing me of bad parenting is too far. Far too far.

dianeh said...

Hi To you all.

Lots to do to day so if I dont get a chance to post, I just wanted to say hello.

I have always had doubts that Madeleine's abduction was single occurence. The death of Mari Luz may be related to Madeleine (especially if we take into account the search currently going on), or alternatively, she may have been abducted as part of a larger network, and hence her disappearance will have some relationship to the two failed attempts in Spain. The two failed attempts do prove that stranger abductions do happen.

SassyP said...

Some people are so dumb it physically hurts. There are things copied and pasted from here yet noone comes over. Claudia reckons she has "friends" (highly unlikely - it has to be her checking us, why would a friend encourage paranoia - anyhow friend is probably a euphemism for "social worker") checking our blogs for comments mentioning her and Alsabella.

dianeh said...

Jane

Do not rise to the bait.

Just let it ride on by. Not worth wasting your time justifying yourself to that lot. You know what type of parent you are and that is all that matters.

My advice to the whole blog, just forget about the personal attacks. And dont respond, except to acknowledge you have seen them. Nothing will infuriate them more than seeing that we just DONT CARE what they thing about us.

SassyP said...

Gina

You have to understand why I said that (which I wrote before reading your post, after which I thanked you).

Up to now, every time you have posted here you have then gone back to Casa Crud to say something bad about us all here.

I questioned it last time you did that and I had that vicious mare (Clawdia) stirring things big time. It was when you apologised for coming here with a fake ID and I said thank you for that. You went back to CC and ran us down again!

Rosiepops said...

Hi Jane

I thought it was a combined effort this time?

Oh well lets hope they do not find her in there, but if she is then I do if you understand, because if she is in there she needs to be laid to rest properly.

JANEGT said...

Hi Diane

Yes, you are right.

It is this two faced 'Standard' ha ha ... that I loathe. They yell blue murder at any such treatment from anyone else, but if they get a taste POLITELY of their own medicine, they just can't handle it.

As Sassy says, they are 'never here' but somehow our posts are copied and pasted tere. So, psychics with a cybercrystalball then?

Can't be docmac.

He's no balls at all.

copy and paste that loser!!!!

;o)
said with love

Rosiepops said...

Jane

Just ignore him, his credibility is shot to pieces and everyone is laughing at him behind his back and he is beginning to realise it, so he will hit out where he thinks he can hurt.

Ignore him he is just one big joke.

Rosiepops said...

Also it actually proves that he has no idea of what teens are like or how they can be, so again he is a liar.

Has he got children this age? Or did he buy his wife too late?

SassyP said...

Hiya Dianeh

You are so right. Everyone should just ignore the personal rubbish coming from Casa Crud. What more can you expect from Docquack and that vicious mare Clawdia?

As Dianeh so rightly says, you know what kind of parent you are.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hi Dianeh,

Glad I caught you, I note you mentioned the other night whether it was just rumour that Murat called Malinka. Wanted to let you know that I read a copy of an interview and it went like this:-

Interviewer allegedly referring to Murat "His manner was less assured when asked about the late night call to Malinka, a call he initialy denied making"

Murat is alledgedly quoted as saying in reply "I checked my phone records and I admit they do show I made a call at 11:40pm, it lasted 30 seconds so we must have talked but I cant remember what about. He was setting up my website so it was probably that"

While Malinka is allegedly reported as saying, I last saw him 3 months ago!

JANEGT said...

Rosiepops

Yes, I agree, if this lawyer is so certain his knowledge is true, then I can see his energy in doing this and attempts to gain funds..... If she is there, yes, I too would prefer we find her .....and then matters will progress as they should. Sadly.

He must really trust his sources though. Pity we did hot know more about them.

I just cannot face thinking she is dead yet. No enough proof anywhere for me, just speculation. Until I have real proof, I have to believe she is alive.

Rosiepops said...

Hi Gina

Glad you called in because I was reading your posts on A's blog and I see that you wrote that now Mari has been found that it proves there is no connection with Madeleine.

I have no idea how she died or if it was connected, just wondering how you know?

SassyP said...

Jane

The lawyer said that he couldn't talk about his sources YET as it wouldn't be safe. So maybe we'll hear about them at some point in the future.

dianeh said...

Hi Tinkiebell.

I asked my daughter if she had a message for you and after a lot of giggling, all you have is a 'Hello'. She is going to think about it and maybe have a message another day.

Thanks for the info on Murat/Malinka. My feeling about them, is that they were up to no good (hence the wiping of Malinka's laptop computer) but it may have nothing at all to do with Madeleine. I have never subscribed to the theory that it is either the McCanns or Murat that are guilty. I think it is entirely possible that someone else is responsible for Madeleine's disappearance and is getting away with it.

Gina said...

Rosie, I do not wish to be rude, but I am not going to answer that question and I have removed the news I had about the attempted Spanish abduction. I have learned from experience now it is better to stay on one site as I do not want to get into blog wars it is all getting out of hand.

JANEGT said...

Yes, that is the most worrying aspect of this, 10 months down the line, whoever took Madeleine - and maybe others too we just don't know, - is laughing up their sleeves at us not catching them. It is awful.

ha ha ha Rosiepops loved it about buying a wife. hee hee..Made in Taiwan perhaps? ;o((( Like Fred Elliot in Corrie if any fans are on tonight.

JANEGT said...

On reading back posts from today, someone said we were called 'elderly ladies' ..... GOOD GRIEF.....

who posted that?? Are they still in nappies then?

wouldn't surprise me no matter their age. Docmac has announced his new job as a toilet cleaner. Hope is is happy with his PROMOTION.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Dianeh, Aw, I'd been looking forward to getting a little message :-(

I dont think Murat was responsible for the abduction, but I cant shift this feeling that he had a role somewhere and he knows a lot more than he is saying.

supertroll said...

JanetGT

Don't be too annoyed about notdoc.
He is a very sad loser.

Everybody knows he is not a doc, (well maybe 2345 doesn't...)

Mum21 said...

Hi Rosie. At the moment I am fine. The wind is really beginning to get up here now....plus we have the highest tide of the year tonight. The sea sounds fantastic....a deep roar.

Hi everyone else...and Jane, ignore the abuse coming from the House of Hell. You have to remember....they know no better.

(waves Alsa3bellies :-))

JANEGT said...

tinkerbell

what worries me is I read recently that Murat was in Madeleine's bedroom on the night of 3 May. I had not seen this published before last week. It was reported to the PJ by a local.

This clearing out of discs etc, and saying they had no contact when Malinkaand Murat cleary did, is enough to raise a lot of suspicion in some involvement or knowledge. How much reamins to be seen. I do not regard him as innocent at all, nor 'dignified'. .

Gina said...

Rosie I was just checking my posts because I didn't recall saying what you said. I was having a bit of a disagreement this morning with 2345 who seemed to be inferring Mari's parents were involved, and something sinster was going on because of the condition of the body. so one of my post was this.....
Gina said...
We all have our opinions and until a case is solved and all the facts known we are all only guessing.

2345 thinks this and could be right
It's very sinister ... it seems she was killed, kept some place prior to being dumped in the water where found. Highly questionable behaviour. In normal cases of abduction children are systematically abused, killed and dumped. Apart from Madeleine's case, it's unique for bodies to be moved from one site to another.
...................................
I think this: she was taken for revenge (or something)(not sexually abused) killed, put into a sturdy cardboard box which was weighted down and thrown in the river. The box has now deteriorated and Mari's body has surfaced. I will leave the Guardia to sort out the rest.

................................

It has been confirm tonight Mari was not sexually abused, they are still theorising on whether it was an accident or murder. Based on this information IMO this has no link to Madeleine- Off now Bye

dianeh said...

I know I said I wasnt going to post but there are many reasons why Makinka would wipe his hard disk, which are nothing to do with Madeleine. Here are a few, tax evasion, child porn, computer hacking, illegal real estate deals.

So although suspicious, it doesnt prove anything. I wonder though, how succesful they were in tracking his web movements. He is meant to be a computer expert, so he may be practically untraceable, especially without his hard disk to point the way.

The PJ have checked our Murat and Malinka but maybe they hit a stone wall. Alternatively, they may have nothing to do with Madeleine and therefore there is nothing to find. Same as for the McCanns. But the PJ really need to establish why Malinka wiped his hard drive. Only problem is, how do they do that????

Tinkerbell43 said...

Jane,

I also found it of concern when Michaela was reported as allegedly saying, "the police kept telling me Robert was a bad man, a dangerous man who had pictures of young children on his computer"

Unless they were trying to make her crack, they obviously seem to know something about him if what she has said is true.

JANEGT said...

good evening supertroll yes I agree.

Mum21 how i the weather????

We are ok so far here, just 5 degrees, cold, windy but that's all. We are inland though. I used to live by the sea and so miss that. I loved it. But at times like this, not so sure.

Hope you will all be safe from the weather warnings.

;o))

supertroll said...

It is quite funny what is happening now on the vile blog, and very predictable.

Someone has been giving Viv a bad time and she has gone into ranting mode. She always does the same thing. It is as if she gets to a point where she cannot defend herself anymore goes into ranting mode and deletes all the posts she doesn't like.

2345 is helping her with the ranting. We are all animal abusers now for laughing at her poor parrot.

It is an interesting pattern of behaviour.

Mum21 said...

Gina. That is not all you disagreed on with 2345. If I remember correctly 2345 went so far as to say little Mari's parents were suspect. I cannot remember her actual words...but I do know you very rightly did not agree with her.
That woman has a twisted mind.

Mum21 said...

Hi Jane. The weather here is getting bad now. The wind is whipping the high waves right over the top of the sea wall. Beautiful to watch...but a touch scarey.

JANEGT said...

Oh supertroll, mum21 you have just made me hoot with laughter.


2345 keeps saying the cadavers foun....such and such. not realising what a cadaver actually means.....

She has spouted the fffffffffffooorensssssiiiickcks word so long I am immune to it almost as much as 'lucicrous' words now with no meaning to me.

That is one partnership made in hell. Deranged, talking about animal cruelty....our fault.....call in the rspca.....OMG it really beggars belief. I have to laugh at the lot of them that get to that level. Can't they think at all? Don't they take NEW FACTS in at all but just have same old same old mantra no matter what??? Bet 2345 wears dog collar with a bell and is chipped. Oh dear.

As for docmac. no. No going there. 15 yr old computer geek playing in his bedroom after lights out sucking his lollipop...at best before his nightjob cleaning the toilet....apt place to find 'friends' they say. Hmmmm....Says a lot. Never a truer word said in jest.

How so many losers canfind themselves united in one site is amazing.

supertroll said...

Mum21,
I envy you, I really miss the sea.

I had been gearing up for this storm and nothing is happening.

No wind, nothing.

ST

supertroll said...

I think that the post which finally annoyed Viv was this one:

Anonymous said...
Viv,

What did you go around posting about Jane Tomlinson?

Did you ever apologise?

Who will you target after the McCanns?

Sunday, March 9, 2008 3:09:00 PM PDT

She could have denied this.

ST

Rosiepops said...

Gina

Well thankful for small mercies that she was not sexually abused.
The other stuff I read this could have just be a natural process due to her being in the water, I hate to say this but sea life does feed and they would not know what they were feeding on
I cannot believe that anyone could be so cruel as to do this to a child, no matter if they are Romanian gypsies or not.
It does not look like this was an accident, but whether she was killed by accident or not is another thing entirely.

whatever I hope it is discovered soon and the person that done this caught. I cannot believe that gypsies would take and kill a child to get at her father because of an argument in a market.

I cannot see why the McCann's keep getting mentioned on that blog because they offered their condolences, if they hadn't they would have been attacked for that too.
The way that 2345 is trying to link M3 with this child is sick.

I think the McCann hating has gone way too far and people are completely obsessed and they are no longer thinking clearly or rationally.

JANEGT said...

Tinkerbell

I was concerned when I read Murat had pictures not only of his own daughter and ex wife, but of Madeleine on his computer. I only read it once. I do not recall th paper. I have tried to find it but can't. I did read it though. The press running conflicting articles in same paper, particularly in my view the D E did themselves no favours. I have lost respect for a lot of them, most of them in fact.

The truth is in there somewhere but with all this dust swirling round, how will we know if it hits us in the face no? It's nearly a year. It's ridiculous.

SassyP said...

Rosie
___________________________________
I think the McCann hating has gone way too far and people are completely obsessed and they are no longer thinking clearly or rationally.

09 March 2008 22:56
___________________________________

And people are egging each other on to be worse and worse!


Exactly.

SassyP said...

Rosie

All the copying and pasting made my mail come out all the wrong way round, but you know what I meant!

supertroll said...

Sassy,

'And people are egging each other on to be worse and worse!'

If they do that, they lose any credibility they might have ever had.

Someone stumbling onto those sites in the state they are in now will never stay or believe anything. They might even report them

It is good news in a way.

ST

Tinkerbell43 said...

I'm off now all. Going to batton down the hatches seeing as I am in a red area!

Take care everyone, be safe.

Nite, nite xx

Rosiepops said...

Sassy

Don't worry I understood it.

It is often a trait of people working for such organisations that they think they know everything about everything.

Take people working for the PJ for instance, silly stupid impressionable and gullible, the believe everything that is fed to them and they then come out and blab to newspapers a lot of old rubbish they have been told, hence these ridiculous stories from PJ sources!

it is not even unheard of for men to tell women a load of nonsense just to make a good impression on them so they can get what they want! lol

Fancy going out with old tubby! you would get flattened!

JANEGT said...

I cannot believe anyone could stoop so low as to criticise Jane Tomlinson. She was so dignified and positive for others in her terminal illness. I do recall her lovely husband saying on television that internet articles had been very very hurtful to her and them all as a family.

Now, was this what you were mentioning supertroll? Was it this woman who caused this lovely woman such pain in her last months?

If so........

cannot key in my thoughts here, ...............

JANEGT said...

I cannot believe anyone could stoop so low as to criticise Jane Tomlinson. She was so dignified and positive for others in her terminal illness. I do recall her lovely husband saying on television that internet articles had been very very hurtful to her and them all as a family.

Now, was this what you were mentioning supertroll? Was it this woman who caused this lovely woman such pain in her last months?

If so........

cannot key in my thoughts here, ...............

dianeh said...

Rosie

The autopsy will show how long Mari Luz was actually in the water.

I do not for one minute believe that Mari Luz' parents has anything to do with this, or that it was some sort of revenge killing. In my mind that is a very racist thing to imply, and it is just because they are gypsies. If you want revenge, kill the adults, or else you start a vendetta.

Has the autopsy report came out and said that there was no sexual abuse? I dont think so.

Also, it can sometimes be difficult for a body to be found in water ways. Take case of Lacey Peterson in the US. It took ages to find her body (and her unborn baby) but her husband dumped her body in the water the day he killed her.

Gina's theory is closer to the truth than 2345 (just spouting rubbish) but I doubt that is a revenge killing.

Mum21 said...

Good Night Tinks. I think I need to do the same.

So I will say good night to you all.
Stay safe and God Bless.

JANEGT said...

good night tinkerbell

keep safe in your red area.!!

see you soon.
;o)
keep cosy

JANEGT said...

good night Mum21 keep safe, warm and cosy too.

see you soon
;o)

Gina said...

Rosiepops, I was just off to bed but will answer you with what I know so far. The guardia like the Pj do not keep talking to press about what they are doing so there are conflicting reports. One says she was not in the water very long, so she has been kept somewhere then dumped. Apparently her eyes and face were badly damaged and yet they are say no violence, and that is why I said about the fish. Horrid to think of but these things happen and I feel for her family to see her in that state if it is true. Rest assured that if this person is caught, they will suffer for it big time, and I am sure you will not mind if the guardia black a few eyes before the get to jail. Spanish prisons are just that prisons, nothing like the "butlins" of the UK.

Re picking on the McCanns for condolences. I really do not think anybody blames them for that, but I am sure many more important people than they have also sent condolences but it was not necessary for them to tell the world they had done it. Blame Clarence if you like, but I think he/they are milking every opportunity for publicity and it is just getting on people nerves now. Anyway hopefully it will soon be over and I for one will be very pleased about that.

Sorry to hear about your bad weather, but being the wind up merchant that I am I have to tell you that I just returned from Moraira (yes the abduction place) and it was 12 degress, Good night, put your winter drawers on and stay warm

supertroll said...

JanetGt,

This is what I was told by an anonymous poster. I was disgusted but not that surprised.

I remember being upset about the news too, Jane did not deserve that kind of vitriol.

If I get proof it will be all over my blog.

ST

SassyP said...

Supertroll

You're right that they lose their credibility - or rather lost it a while back!

SassyP said...

Bye Tinks and everyone else, too.

I'm also off now, so I'll see ya tomorrow. Hope your houses don't do a Wizard of Oz!

By the way Supertroll, love your right column on the blog!

dianeh said...

Supertroll

Also, that poor woman who has stalked by that Felicity L????, cant remember her full name. She was a victim of a horrible traumatic crime(s) and then suffered at the hands of some demented person. She was only trying to help others. Same as for Jane Tomlinson.

To be in the public idea will definitely attract that lunatic fringe. Same thing has happened with the McCanns. But scary thing is, the offenders cant see that this is what they are doing. They are attacking the victims of crime. But somehow justify it to themselves.

Gina said...

Mum 21 just say your post so thought I should answer it. Yes 2345 and I were at logger heads this morning I didn't go along with any of it, but she had her say I had mine, it got us nowhere but it passed the time while I was waiting for my washing to finish.

Rosie I forgot to say that it has also been reported that Mari was seen with two older children, don't know what to make of that, so not going to make anything of it. Leaving it all to the guardia to sort out, just glad the cortes' can lay their child to rest.

Now really going it is cheaper to sleep than have botox treatment because have not slept enough!!

supertroll said...

Sassy,

Thank you I'm glad you like it.
I need a new picture of Viv, now that I now she has a parrot.

AAAARGH!

I am off to bed now, but good night everyone.

Your blog is the only one that has any credibility.

Night
ST

supertroll said...

DianeH

It is strange what goes inside people's minds.

Resenting people who have suffered such tragedies.

ST

Rosiepops said...

Night Tinks and Mum

Remember don't go out unless you really have to, too much flying debris.

Take care and stay safe

Gina

Thanks for that. I just want this monster who did that to that child caught, I wonder why they kept her hidden and then went and dumped her in the water, that sounds really sick to me. I cant bear to think about that poor child and my love goes out to her parents, what must they be going through.

JANEGT said...

diane

yes, think you have some good points there, hideous as they are.

I just do not see that they cannot stand back and think, if that were my child, my mother, father, aunt, uncle whatever, they would NOT HAVE THESE dreadful opinions at all. Not one bit. Can't they see what they are doing? It is simply crucifixion. It makes me sick. More than sad, more than worried sick that such evil twisted tormented minds have a voice at all.


eeek

with that,

off to bed now.

thanks for the debate, enjoyed it. see you all soon.

take care, don't let the winds bite, keep warm

;o)))

Rosiepops said...

Gina

I hope they make a statement soon and then they will put an end to this speculation.

I am sorry to say that 2345's theories are not even borderline crazy, they are totally barking mad and she doesn't laterally think, she thinks too much, point blank and if she or someone else doesn't stop her she could land up getting herself into serious trouble.

Gina said...

Rosie there are so many possibilities on this one. There was also a guy who lived in the same block under some suspicion. I think he had some mental disorder. Anything is possible, it has been suggested she was suffocated and a hand over the mouth to keep her quite may have been enough to kill her. A mental person could have just put her in a bed and done nothing to her at all, then realised she was decomposing and got rid of her. Many things are possible we will have to wait and see, but at least with the body they may be able to get some DNA clues from her clothes or something (not going there do not know enough about it) Going to bed now good night

dianeh said...

Hi Rosie

I think we need to wait and see for the results of autopsy etc in Spain. But that is where we get in to problems, having to read the articles in Spanish and then convert them.

I didnt know that Mari Luz was with two older children. I wonder why that wasnt reported in English press.

And autopsy not been released,yet. Here is article on it.

http://www.typicallyspanish.com/
news/publish/article_15480.shtml

This is very very sad thing. Mari Luz' poor parents. They deserve to know what happened and whoever did it, needs to be put away for a very long time.

Gina said...

Rosie 2345 not my problem I manage to get myself in enough trouble without worrying about getting her out of it. Off tomorrow to investigate attempted abduction in Moraira "I have ways of making them talk"

Rosiepops said...

Gina

Well if she wasn't put into the water until latterly then there is a possibility of more DNA than would have been if she was there in the water all of this time. The fact that they have the body is good because this is going to tell them so much and there is a good chance whoever did this to her will be caught.

Good night Gina Take care.

Rosiepops said...

Well if you find any abductees make them speak in avery high pitched voice!

dianeh said...

Gina

I know you have gone but please come back and tell us your views on Mari Luz. It will be very interesting to get your view being that you are reading the Spanish papers, in spanish and not just getting the translated, often slanted version.

Thanks for your info tonight.

Gina said...

Dianeh Sorry I do not know anymore that I have said, several paper with differing stories, and I am unreliable at reporting what I see on TV because my Spanish is not that good and I might get it wrong.
Think we will hear something factual soon as this is not like the Madeleine case, they have Mari's body so have something to work on.

I am currently trying to find out the truth about the attempted abduction in Moraira, I live 15 mins away and recognise the couple as have seen them in the village. However I have also seen many women like she described begging and/or stealing things. Really tired must go

Rosiepops said...

Diane

Looks like the want a second autopsy, this is not unheard of in cases like this, people have to be sure in their own minds what is what and they will not get a second chance.

I find it a little conflicting though, if the parents do not know what the results of the autopsy are, then why would they request another?

I think this is bad reporting of the press, yet again, as if these poor parents do not have enough grief to contend with.

As horrible as it may sound these parents have to know, if they do not know then they will not be able to grieve properly.

Oh dear this all sounds such a cliche', really there are no words that can express what you feel inside for those parents, I think the silent gathering to show sympathy and support was very poignant and said far more than words ever could.

Why is this world so cruel, why do children have to suffer?

Too many questions and not many answers.

Chinadoll said...

Tried to post a joke the other night - but google was down, so here goes.

Man walked into a bar with a pig on a lead and ordered a drink. The pig had only three legs, the other being a wooden one.
Other man in bar asks 'Why does your pig have a wooden leg?'
First man replies, 'Don't talk about that pig, he is a hero. Last week, my small son fell in the swimming pool and was drowning - the pig dived in and rescued him'
2nd Man, 'but why does he have a wooden leg?'
1st Man, 'Thats nothing, a month ago, my house went on fire and my wife was overcome by fumes in the bedroom. The pig crashed through the door, ran up the burning stairs, grabbed her by the nightie and dragged her out, saving her life.'
2nd Man, 'But why does he have a wooden leg?'
1st Man, 'If you had a pig as good as that, would you eat him all at once?'

Rosiepops said...

Hi china

very funny lol

I see you have been making use of your time, you naughty girl

"Who's a pretty boy then?"

Chinadoll said...

Rosiepops,

I think I got lost in cyberspace and found a few weirdos along the way.

lol

dianeh said...

Rosie

The parents may want a second autopsy now, with another pathologist, rather than maybe go through it later. I am not sure how the law works in Spain (of course I dont know) but if a second autopsy is offered and foul play is suspected,then it would be common sense to do it upfront before the inquest.

I wonder how much will come out from the Spanish police. Not much I suspect, as first priority is to make sure do not compromise the investigation.

Of course, now I will be accused of double standards, we want info in Madeleine case but think that Mari Luz' details should be kept secret. Big difference is one is a missing person case, the other is a suspicious death (going by earlier reports that Mari Luz had cracked skull) but one would think that death of a 5 yo would be suspicious by default.

Lets hope for quick resolution of the case, for the parents sake.

dianeh said...

Hi China.

Nice to see you.

dianeh said...

China

Just checked on your visit to the black hole. Most of your posts have been deleted. See, what goes in, never comes out, as I said, black hole. Please be careful when posting there in future. We would hate to lose you in there forever.

A

Rosiepops said...

China

there are certainly a lot of weirdos around in cyberspace, they all say they are doctors or airline pilots too!

Rosiepops said...

Oh no has she deleted China's posts? They were funny, gave her hell hole blog a human touch!

Isn't Felvivty a spoilsport?

Shame on you Felicity!

Chinadoll said...

Tue Diane,

but it was only on my second visit that I was not tolerated in the black hole.

On my first visit, vile tried to manipulate the posts, by posting a nasty - waiting for my reply, which, I might add, was restrained,
then deleting her origonal post etc etc etc I guess most people know her game.

I don't think she is talking to me just now and have posted her to tell her I am gutted, but she even deleted that post.

Bit of a sensitive type, if you know what I mean.

Hey Rosiepops,

Did you see the state that that poor parrot is living in. Live cables, artexed walls, cob webs etc.,
not quite the photo of a happy parrot to me.

At least the parrot got more website hits than the neverending drivel article that followed.

Rosiepops said...

I felt sorry for that poor little bird, what about if it pecks through that cable? I don't know much about parrots the only bird I had was a Gloucester red canary and we had him for years, apparently he lived a lot longer than most canaries. We used to take our dogs for a walk and pick the bird a bunches of rapeseed greens, he used to love that, when we wouldn't get that we would get him fat juicy dandelion leaves, he used to make me laugh, fill his little seed hopper up and he would dive in throwing all his seed about to get the bits he liked!

I noticed how many hits the parrot had in comparison to the garbage she usually spews out on there, I think she noticed it too as she has now added someones dog!

Rosiepops said...

Anyway I am going to bed now, very tired.

Good night Diane take care see you later xxx

Good night China and you take care too, especially if you have to go out in the morning! I hear the wind getting up in my chimney already!

Please be careful xxx

God Bless Madeleine xxx God Bless Shannon xxx

xxx God Love and keep Little Mari-Luz xxx

Chinadoll said...

Rosiepops,

I am nearly crying with laughter.

I popped in and had a look at the black hole today and noticed that the parrot sketch was so popular.

I didn't have the heart/time/inclination to read the epic vile headline/saga above it.

Just noticed that everone else was ignoring it too, so decided to contribute and was duly deleted - as vile, clearly will do anything to avoid upsetting her sidekick 2345, who was onto me like bees on honey or flies on you know what.

calcite51 said...

Tinkerbell - here is the link to Martin's article.
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1308330,00.html

calcite51 said...

Hey, how come the Anonymous button is back here?

calcite51 said...

Did you guys ever see "The Omen"? Animals reacted to the anti-christ.

calcite51 said...

Hi felicity - don't know where everyone is - can't answer you as I just got home from work - we're just little old ladies knitting. Are you going to join our knitting club??

calcite51 said...

Viv - no, not the police but thinking of reporting one of your bloggers who reportedly works for Leicester Social Services and is sharing confidential information about an active case - ie. McCanns ring a bell?

calcite51 said...

Sad Viv - for you - I've never visited your site nor do I intend too. As for my pets - I have had 2 dogs who lived a pampered life until they died of natural causes. Now, I'm the adopted mom to two cats (one who is diabetic and has to be given shots twice a day). So go away.

Oh, yep, I also have two daughters - and they both have managed to turn out very well - so be gone with you.

calcite51 said...

Nice talking to you Viv/Felicity - don't let the door hit you on the way out.

calcite51 said...

Don't worry about the Social Services item - I'm sure whoever it was that mentioned it - has a copy of it and will be forwrding it to the Leicester police as well as the head of the Social Services.

calcite51 said...

Someone wondered if information on a case Social Services could be construed as breeching the privacy laws.
As I use to work in a Social Work department - I know we were NEVER, EVER allowed to comment on the cases outside the department. That's the answer I gave. Don't know what was on your blog - and frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.
But I am honoured that you came to talk on this blog. Your blog and Alsabella's must be awfully quiet tonight.

calcite51 said...

By the way who are you? Felicity or Viv?

calcite51 said...

Let me weigh what club I want to be in: one who has played jury and judge on one sad case or why who would rather support parents who are being accused of the most vile of crimes and may be very innocent?
No, I don't really want to be in your club or Alsabella's - but thanks so much for the invite. I must decline - oh, damn where is that knitting needle?

calcite51 said...

I, Calcite51, hereby swear, I will never come to this blog again when everyone is gone. So help me God.

calcite51 said...

Viv/Felicity - Odd, but I don't recall the McCanns being charged with anything. Between you and 2345, I just don't know why we have police agencies/Scotland Yard/FBI - we should just let the two of you sit in court all day long and you could play 'judge and jury' Think of the money we poor taxpayers could save. Wonder how many innocent people you would find guilty?

Forgive them Father, they know not what they do.

calcite51 said...

Did you want to lie down on the couch and tell me about the dual names? Is tht because you have a dual personality?

Do you want to tell me about your childhood? Did you play nicely with the other kids? Oh, no, I bet you were the Bully on the playground. Tsk...tsk....

calcite51 said...

Rosie, Sassyp - hope to god you're both sleeping good tonight.

calcite51 said...

Viv/Felicity - in case you come back - I'm off - I have to go to bed as I have to go to work tomorrow.

We've chatted twice now and that has been more than enough for me.

Have a good night and do let the bed bugs bite.

calcite51 said...

Well, here's more news. Remember when I posted a few days ago on the 15 year old girl who was murdered on Alsabella's site? Of course,good old Claudia jumped right in and said, "thought you weren't posting here anymore - a little bird told me." Replied it was a woman's perogative to change her mind and charming Claudia called me a liar.

So after I signed off here went to Alsabella's site and posted her a note telling her Viv/Felicity was very upset and maybe she and Claudia should go talk to her. Also mentioned her disclaimer - where she said she could change her mind because that's a sign of an open mind and I asked her if she wasn't afraid of being called a liar?

Needless to say, my comment got deleted and Alsabella told me to go read the funnies.

Why do I feel like I've met the three witches?

Sorry about the stench guys - I've left the windows and I've sprayed some pretty potent stuff but the stench - it lingers....

SassyP said...

Felicity

Go back to your junk site. I realise that noone is posting there anymore, but that's your own doing.

Rosiepops said...

Hi Calcite,

Thank you for baby sitting our site while we were all asleep and sorry you got visited after the witching hour!

I must say your replies were very funny though. xxx ;-)

Sassy

Well she had to have something to do, she read her parrots page, which now has a dog on it apparently and there there was nothing else to do. She could have tried a bit painting and decorating, but she chose to come here and stagnate the atmosphere, but Calcite was om hand to open the windows for us.

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