Monday, 3 March 2008

I know how the McCanns feel

Some people say that they know how the McCanns must feel about their daughter being missing and many say how they would react in such a situation. Naturally, unless you have been in that situation yourself, your ideas about what you would do and how you would feel are purely theoretical. One person who has been in their shoes is John Tate whose daughter went missing 29 years ago and has never been found.


THEY say time heals – but ask Kate and Gerry McCann if they feel better now their daughter Maddie has been missing for so many months.

And ask John Tate if the disappearance of his 13-year-old daughter Genette has become any easier to bear after 29 long years.

Madeleine’s mother Kate McCann told this week how she has cried every day since the four-year-old vanished during a family holiday in Portugal.

And according to Genette Tate’s father, it is a nightmare from which you never wake.

John, 65, says: “Our lives have never been the same since that day. As the years have gone on there has been a lot less attention paid to Genette. Other things happen in the world. Other kids have gone missing.

“But you never stop allowing your hopes to be raised no matter how many times they are dashed.”

Genette’s disappearance in August 1978 is one of Britain’s longest-running missing persons cases and still has cops baffled.

But her family hope serial child killer Robert Black could soon be charged with her murder.

Genette vanished during her newspaper round in her home village of Aylesbeare, near Exeter. Files have recently been sent to the Crown Prosecution Service, who will decide if Black should be charged with her murder.

A trial could bring some long-awaited answers for John and Genette’s mother Sheila – but they also dread it could dash their last hopes of ever finding out what happened to their little girl.

John knows the feeling of panic experienced by parents when a child goes missing. He knows how the horror grows as hopes fade.

And, like the McCanns, he also knows how it feels when you think things cannot get worse – then the police makeYOUa suspect.

John says: “The McCann’s story has brought back a lot of sad memories for us. I watched the search in Portugal on TV and felt disgusted. It was so pathetic.

“When stories came out claiming the police had got Maddie’s DNA from the hire car I just laughed.

“I know how hard it was to get Genette’s DNA from hair. We had her hairbrush, filled with hair, but it was a waste of time.

“Eventually bods from the DNA lab came down and saw her mum, who had all Genette’s belongings, and they found a skin flake on one of her roll-neck jumpers.

“Suddenly we had Genette’s DNA and my hopes rose again. But it was another dead end.”

John adds: “It wasn’t long before people pointed the finger at me. In the first few days the family are looked at because, if you look at the statistics, in most cases it is a family member who committed the crime. The police start at the centre then move out as they eliminate people. It’s not unusual but is hell at the time.

“It happened to us on a Wednesday, after Genette disappeared the previous Saturday. They took us in for questioning. It was very harrowing and we were not thinking straight.

“They keep going over the same questions and it takes a lot longer than you think it should.

“I had a damned good alibi – but now wish I didn’t because if I had not been away from Aylesbeare then maybe I would have been there with Genette and she would not have been taken.”

Genette spoke to two girl pals just five minutes before those same friends found her bike 300 yards away in a country lane – its wheels still spinning. Genette has never been seen since.

Within an hour, search parties arrived and a helicopter was scrambled. The village hall was turned into a temporary police HQ as an epic inquiry began.

Police and volunteers trawled 500 lakes, ponds, rivers and wells, and more than 9,000 people were interviewed, with 200 police on the case. Genette’s elfin face smiled out of posters nationwide.

But all to no avail.

Now dad John has revealed how it took him years to accept that his only child was dead.

But John – who had divorced Genette’s mum before 1978 and was living with his daughter and then wife Violet – still allows himself the occasional ‘What if?’

John, now with another Sheila, says: “I remember getting angry when one of the police talked about Genette as if she was dead.

“I demanded, ‘What proof have you got? No more proof than I have that she is alive.’

“As the years go by, though, you come to accept it. They gradually talked to me and encouraged me to accept it. But it didn’t happen in six months. Or a year. It was a number of years before I spoke of Genette as being dead.

“And momentarily I still wonder if she is out there but it does not last long. There is nothing to point toward her being alive but there is nothing concrete to say she is dead.”

John also fears for missing Maddie – confessing: “I personally feel . . . I don’t think they will find her alive. It would be so unusual, I can’t think of any similar case. But they will keep hoping.”

He is waiting, too, to see if child sex fiend Black faces trial.

In 2005, police arrested Black, 60, in top-security Wakefield Jail, West Yorks, on suspicion of Genette’s murder, and detectives interviewed him at length. He is serving life for the 1980s murders of Susan Maxwell, 11, five-year-old Caroline Hogg, and Sarah Harper, ten.

He has also been grilled, but never charged, over the 1981 murder of nine-year-old Jennifer Cardy as she cycled down a country lane near her home in Northern Ireland.

John says: “It is so frustrating not knowing how long they will take to make a decision. We don’t know if they have found any trace of Genette’s DNA on Black’s belongings.

“They were able to trace his movements in the other killings from petrol receipts but I think all the records for 1978 may now have been destroyed.

“Would it be in the public interest to take him to court? I think the answer is yes, if only for all the people who helped look for Genette and who have kept up the search for her ever since. For us, a trial would offer a bit of closure, but I am not sure it would change much.

“All I have ever wanted is to know where Genette is. Where is her body? Her mother and I want to know, if only so we can say a proper goodbye.

“Black has refused to meet me so I could ask him if he killed my daughter.

“I would really like him to confess. That would be wonderful. But if he went to trial and said nothing, even if he were convicted, he could be sent down and we would never know.”

John said: “It is awful thinking, ‘If he did do it, what did he do to her?’

“I have read some of the things that he did and, oh my God, it gave me nightmares for years.”

He adds: “Often I want to talk about Genette but there’s no one to talk to. I don’t want to load that on to anyone else, but you also don’t want to carry it all yourself.”

John is not healthy. He suffers from the muscle-wasting McArdle’s disease, arthritis and heart problems, which all confine him to a wheelchair. And last year he suffered a chest infection which he thought would kill him.

He recently had cataract operations on his eyes, which has given him better sight than he has had since he was four. He fears, however, that he may not live to see the day when he finds out what happened to Genette.

“I find it difficult when people ask me what I imagine Genette would look like today if she was alive,” John says.

“Obviously there is a part of me that wonders what she would be like.”

John adds: “I don’t know what to make of the Maddie case. There has been so much information coming out which is unreliable.”

But his thoughts are still with Genette – and he says: “Some dark nights, when Robert Black is thinking about life, surely Genette must go through his mind, too.

“It can’t be very peaceful for him. It’s certainly hell for us.”

John says: “I don’t want it to drag out. I am now 65 and it is hard. I am old and I don’t know who else would carry on campaigning to find out what happened to Genette should I die.

“I don’t know if a trial would end our agony. But if it’s going to happen, please, let’s get on with it.”


melbel said...

Morning sassy.I had posted on yesterdays blog,typical sammy Snail.
It is heartbreaking to read how these random incidents, where there is no solution and closure,are a living daily hell.
This poor dad has had to battle with ill health too and it begs the question that this must have been in no small way worsened by what happened.
Little sarah, who was murdered by the monster Black, lived not too far from here and the communities never forget either.
I have been saddened to read how people are comparing Madeleine and Shannon disappearing re the media campaign.
This is very prominent in our local Yorkshire newspapers, but some on the Alsa blog,use the differing media coverage between the two, as a stick to beat the Mccanns.
Blame the victim.
With any case, it is normal to closely scrutinise the family first, but thankfully, our Police are much more professional. They have a named person to communicate and there is not the leaks and smears, as seems to be the way they do things in Portugal.
I definitely smell a rat over there and think that there is corruption,which is bound to be revealed.
The Portugese have handled this badly and dishonourably and their international reputation has gone down in the world.
I wrote comments on yesredays article,but cannot paste.
Thanks for help with computer the other day.
I did not respond, as too slow,but I always ignore the other poster who advised too, as he is a chief mischief maker.[Dope ]

melbel said...

I do not normally respond to anonymous people,but understand that the British people will not idly stand by and allow a miscarriage of justice.
As for the Portugese Police,they have lost all credibility with their daily leaks and smears.
They think that they have done a good job in poisoning people via the tabloids, but we have not swallowed it as a nation.
Many on here are very socially involved individuals anyway.
You are on the wrong blog.Will not reply to you again.

SassyP said...

Hiya Melbel

No problem helping you with the computer - any time!

Isn't it strange that for some people as soon as a child disappears, the main topic of conversation is the media campaign and not that the poor little kid is missing!

Some will use anything to discredit the McCanns - however ridiculous.

If the Portuguese had taken up the British offer of help (or from any other country with more experience in this sort of crime) from the very start, I would have had some respect for them. Deciding to do it on their own when they have no idea is unforgiveable - it's a little girl's life at stake here, it's not a case of getting house points for a job well done (or not).

Anonymous said...


I know many of you think the PJ have done a bad job, but although I cannot prove it to you, they have not. I use to work in PDL and I know what I know. The PJ searched in all places many times, used dogs, helicopters,Divers,Police patrol boats and (I do not know the name of it) but machines to see under the ground. They even searched peoples houses without warrants because they needed to be quick. People let them do this because they understood why it was needed to be done. They did this for many months, then something happened I do not know what that made them think this was not an abduction. I left to go home at this time so do not know anymore than what I see in the papers. Many people were speaking about many things and I think these things were reported as coming from the PJ but I do not think so. I have nothing more I can tell you, but when I go back in two months time maybe I will hear something more. Thank you

Tinkerbell43 said...

Morning Melbel,

I 2nd your post. No way will we stand by and witness this gross miscarriage of Justice.

They can bring out as many books as they like self flattering never got anyone anywhere. This smacks of desperation. So transparent its shameful.

Enjoy you day, I must get back to work :-)

Tinkerbell43 said...

Maria, I appreciate your post. But you are being mislead if you do not believe the leaks have come from the PJ. It was confirmed by Mr. Ribeiro that there had been leaks.

SassyP said...



Thank you for your post
- it would be interesting to know what else you will hear when you go back there!

SassyP said...


Hiya! Agree with you about the leaks! Have a nice day at work.


Anonymous said...


Tinkerbell I agree what you said, I also know that, but I think not all things that people say come from the PJ do. I have to tell you that the Portuguese Police do not do things in the same way as in the UK but they are good at many things. They came also to my lodgings and asked many many questions, all I say is they did try very hard to find the missing girl and am sorry for the family that they did not and sorry for the PJ too. I must go now because I will be in trouble if I do not do my work.

My big wish is the little girl is found and the PJ are the ones that find her then everybody will be happy and perhaps then people will understand that the PJ and the Portuguese people really do care about all children. It is a nice country, I cannot wait to return.

God bless all and good bye to you

Tinkerbell43 said...

Maira, Thank you for your post, have a good day. I shouldnt be on here really as I too have work to do.

Do not get me wrong, I do not believe for one moment the Portuguese do not care for their children that has never ever been inferred.

However I cannot share your views on the PJ. They lost all credibility when they gagged and subjected the McCs to a vicious smear campaign.

It also does not inspire confidence when the Policeman in charge is an Arguido for withholding information on another missing child case and his deputy at the time is also facing charges.

Mr. Ribeiro himself has said the McCs were made Arguido's too hastily and if proved right, which I suspect, these parents have been subjected to the most inhumane treatment and this does not put Portugal in a good light.

Anonymous said...

Black had other victims, including in all probablity here in Norfolk. Another little girl who disappeared in a country lane and has never been seen since. What Mr Tate says about how long it takes to stop believing your child is really alive made me very sad....this is what the Mccann haters often beat them with 'they know she's dead, it's all a fake'.

No you scum, it's called love, and hope, and denial that your most precious child will never grace your life again.
BTW, if you think Val's blog is ba, take a look at the 3 arguidos - that's where the real nutters live, en masse

Anonymous said...


Tinkerbell I also too should be gone or in trouble myself.

I am sorry you have no faith in the PJ, I have because of what they did when a friend of mine was rapped, but I do not want to speak about it as it is not important to this story. I cannot speak about the PJ you mentioned I know nothing about what they are supposed to have done. All I know is the police I met were very serious about what they were doing. Someone staying at my lodgings said to them "do you think we have taken the child" and the policeman said "anybody that was in PDL that night could have taken the child, and by that I mean ANYBODY". From this I took it to mean also maybe the parents and later they were made arguidos. Why I don't know, but there must have been some reason I suppose.

I will not say bad things about the childrens family or the PJ because I do not know the family and do not know what evidence the PJ have. I think it is bad to say bad things about people from only newspapers reports. I hope it is not true that the parents left their children alone but I see on many sites people say this.

Maybe one day we will know the truth, but for now we can only hope for some good news. I cannot post again, I have to work.

Tinkerbell43 said...


Sorry to have missed you. As you know there are actually 3 Arguido's. I would be interested tn know your thoughts about Mr. Murat.

Anonymous said...


Tinkerbell, my boss has gone to a meeting so I am being naughty and looking back on sites.

I have no thoughts of Mr. Murat really. I have heard many rumours but nothing that is worth mentioning. As I said before I believe the PJ looked at every possibility and perhaps Mr Murat was made an arguido too because someone said he was outside Ocean that night and Mr. Murat said he was not. It is my guess that they must have believed whoever said this so made him also an arguido. I know the PJ have taken many statements from people and even those in the same place at the same time say different to each other. How the PJ decide who is telling the truth I do not know but I hope they manage to do it.

Sorry I cannot give you any more information about Mr. Murat that I know to be true. I think I must turn off now before I get asked questions from my boss when he gets back!!!

Rosiepops said...

Morning All before I comment on today's story I found Melbels on the other article and thought it was worthwhile bring onto this page too as it is very true. I hope you do not mind Melbel, but I feel your comments apply to everyone with and without children, because each of us lead full lives, yet find it impossible to stand by and watch and injustice being done to two vulnerable people. If people suspect this we cannot stay silent, doing nothing is not an option, the path of history in such sad tragic cases is littered with *if only's*, "if only I had said something' If only I had told the police about what I thought I saw' If only I had acted when I suspected something' it just goes on and on, look at the Jersey case, people there tried so hard to get the authorities to act but were met with a wall of silence, what a pity the internet wasn't around then the way it is today, we could have banded together to force something to be done, instead a stony wall of silence served to protect the most vulnerable in society, children.
Well no more silence, no more saying and doing nothing. I believe that the most powerful tool we possess is our voice and we are going to shout louder than the scum who want to hurt children and we are going to shout louder than those that want to hurt innocent people.
Madeleine McCann will NOT be forgotten and neither will any other child, the time of silence is over.

melbel said...
Good Morning all.
I have read the regular posters on here for many months and in my humble view,the treatment afforded to this family by the PJ leaks and smears and the consequent injustice of trial by media,has been a main motivation in interest of this case.
I am a retired gran, with plenty on in my life, with daily grandparenting responsibilities.
I have plenty of interests and no vacuum in my life that needs filling,in that respect.No need to use the Mccs as a proxy for my own agendas.
I am terribly concerned about the media treating this family unfairly and that a great injustice is being done,by these secrecy laws.
I have written many letters, to my MP,Brown, Home Office and sent support letter to the Mccanns.
If requested by the family or friends not to post, I would certainly do this,unlike the other blogs.
I can only speak for myself, typing one fingered as I do.
It might not be doing any good that we can see, but it demonstrates to me that there are good people in the world, who will not stand by to condone what is being done to these people.
It only needs people to stand by and be silent for the most horrendous consequences, as we have seen in history.
I am horrified at this book being brought out, as discussed earlier,through the eyes of the PJ.
How can it be right for this person to be writing a book before anyone charged, using inside information?
There needs to be an injunction. it is probably too .
Alsas article said it was to get back at English Police.
What the hell is going on over there ?
That seems to be the main concern over there, the country's good name and saving face.
Well,Portugal, it shows you as an immature democracy, not far from the tinpot dictatorship, you were until recently.
I have now lost all respect.

03 March 2008 09:02

Anonymous said...


I forgot to say this to you Tinkerbell. I have heard that some people who have given statements to the PJ told their friends that they were going to post what they had said on some websites but not with their name. I know some of these people and that is why I keep looking to see if I recognise anybody. I also see that people are posting that these sites should be closed down so I am now wondering if someone had heard this also and do not want them to give any information. I told my friend who emailed me this to tell them not to bother because people will not believe them anyway without they prove what they say. Maybe as I see nothing they have taken my advice, I hope so. For me it is the McCanns know if they are innocent, and the PJ know if they are guilty so best leave it to both to sort out.

Rosiepops said...

Maria, thank you for your contributions, they and you are welcome here.

I can see and understand where you are coming from and I am so glad the PJ helped in your friend's case and no one is saying that they get it wrong in every case, of course they do not and I understand that Goncalo Amaral has been instrumental in bringing many cases of drug pushing and pushers to book and we all know what a scurge drugs are and what a threat they are to every country and the horrendous damage they do to our society.
Perhaps then his forte' would have best been served staying on such cases because I am sorry to say that given his status over the serious charges he was facing over the Joana Cipriano case, at the time Madeleine went missing, he should not have been allowed within miles of the Madeleine investigation and the fact that he was allowed to head it is simply astonishing, especially, given the seriousness of the charges he was facing at the time, I am amazed that he had not been suspended from duty.
you mention the Pj do things differently, sorry but there are stat responses to when a child goes missing that should be adhered to, there is no room for police to suddenly start insisting they are going to do things their way, I am talking about other countries that have experience in what should be done in these cases. The PJ by their own admission say they are not experienced in this kind of thing, that being the case then they should have taken advice instantly from people that do know, we are in an age of instant technology so it would not have been difficult.
In any event PDL is a tiny place if the PJ had alerted Marine and coast guards and alerted border control and had put police on Borders etc *immediately* then because fo the time they maybe could have prevented Madeleine being take away, but they didn't they didn't bother doing this until 12 hours later! If she was taken this way then the b******s had plenty of time to escape with her and it need not have been like this. Even when they decided to put police on the borders the police who were meant to be there stopping *every single vehicle* were filmed and photographed sitting in their police cars sheltering from the rain and smoking, while traffic zoomed by *unchecked*.
i could go on about the catalogue of errors the PJ have made and their disgraceful attitude and incompetence since, but I wont as I appreciate it is not your fault and I have a feeling you will not accept anything bad being said about them anyway.

I have lost all respect for your country's police and I fear that Madeleine being taken like this is the tip of a very sinister and unpleasant iceberg and when (I do mean when) Madeleine is found, I believe others will be too and I am sorry to say this is going to look very bad on Portugal and the Portuguese government.

Doby said...

Good afternoon friends. Sadly there has been no heart warming news or indeed any news about dear little Madeleine for some time now and I now fear all our hopes and prayers have been in vain. That is not to say we must give up hope completely, miracles do sometimes happen, or indeed that we should now cast little Madeleine from our minds,on the contrary she will always remain in our hearts. But it seems fairly obvious the PJ have now given up their efforts to find Maddie and should now out of decency remove the stain on the character and finger of suspicion from both Kate and Gerry. This sad and sorry state of affairs has been a disgrace and complete disaster and it's time the PJ either put their cards on the table and admit to their gross incompetence.

Jojam said...

Good afternoon all,
Just thought you may be interested in this report in the sun............(Not the Best paper)

A PORTUGUESE newspaper poll has showed that LESS people have faith in the police probe into Madeleine McCann's disappearance while more believe Gerry and Kate are innocent.

In a survey by Correio da Manha, 60.4 per cent of people believe the investigation has been carried out well - a drop of around 30 per cent since last year.

Of those surveyed, 11.9 per cent said the Portuguese police were doing 'so-so', while 16.7 per cent said that they had done a bad job and 11 per cent did not have an opinion.

Polls carried out in May of last year showed that 90.3 per cent thought the police had done a good job, and only 2.1 per cent thought they had not.

And on a scale of 1 to 100, the poll showed the police in Portugal were rated an average of 94.1 in May, 81.6 in September falling to 74.2 at present.

Correio da Manha also claims that 38.6 per cent of those surveyed in an opionion poll believe Kate and Gerry are responsible for the "disappearance of Maddie's body."

However, 30.7 per cent believe that Madeleine's parents had nothing to do with it, and another 30.7 per cent did not have an opinion.

The same question was asked in September 2007, when 39.9 per cent considered the McCanns to be guilty, while 26.8 per cent said they were innocent and 33.2 per cent did not know.

Re todays article........I am thankful that I cannot Know how Kate feels...........I can feel for her but never truly know.

Anonymous said...


Rosiepops, I am not Portuguese I am Spanish/English, and work in Spain and Portugal. I am not defending Portugal as no country is perfect and I think we all know that. I just posted what I had seen and heard for myself, and the further news I get from my colleague who is still in Portugal.

I cannot comment on Mr Amaral as I had never heard of him until this case. There are many bad policeman in many countries unfortunately.

When I said the PJ do things differently I was referring to, I think you say "not to the book". They came to me and my friends, and asked many questions and looked around the apartment. If we had said you need a warrant to search, they would have staked out our flat till they got one, we knew that, we had nothing to hide and let them do their job as did all people. You say they sit in cars smoking and sheltering from the rain. To us we laugh that you find it odd that they smoke, but I know they all worked long hours so to have a rest is not wrong. While some rest, some worked.

Many children have gone missing, I think there is one in England at the moment who has not been found. I do not know, but were all the borders closed there immediately.

It is all too sad. We are perhaps all are guilty of wanting to blame someone that these children are not found but we often blame the wrong people because we were not there at the time and did not see what really was being done.

I am sorry I cannot add anymore to prove that you are not entirely correct about the PJ although you may be about Mr. Amaral. I will not be able to get back on here today as I now have to go and collect my boss and then catch up on what work we have to do.

If I hear anything that I know to be TRUE I will post the news to you, but I am not really expecting to hear anything more than I know already. Regards to your bloggers

Christabel said...

Shannon: Family Criminal Records Probe.,,30100-1307725,00.html

I hope this is not true.

Doby said...

Interesting statistics from the Sun Jojam but who cares what the papers say any more. Nice to see opiniopns are changing though if that's the case!

melbel said...

Hi Jojam,Doby, Chtistabel
Just catching up,but here, there and everywhere again.
The PJ and Portugese tabloids seem to have done a good job, if such a high number of Portugese believe the parents involved.
It will be an uphill struggle to prepare their public, if, as I believe, the Mccanns are cleared.
I will not be holidaying there, for the foreseeable future, as I totally disapprove of the way they have carried on.
I know nothing about policing,but the lies and spin have got to me.
They are still being brainwashed with this appalling book being discussed last night, the purpose being to get back at the English Police,giving inside information.
What is all that about ?
What does that matter, national pride and saving face ?
I used to find it incredible that posters came to DE site, asking for proof of an abduction.
They must live in a fantasy world of Big Brother or something.
They really think they are at the heart of the case and are in a position to produce evidence and convict.
I am sure such posters are threatened by being "challenged " intellectually about their wild statements, because a lot of them have irrational agendas, which they are not even aware of.
Well, I bet you are all in the kitchen,making food now.
I am not here long, but all the best to you all.

SassyP said...

Hiya Christabel

Long time no see! How you doing? Read the article you posted the link for. What a shame people weren't warned about these attempted abductions so they could take extra care.

SassyP said...

Hiya Melbel, JoJam and Doby

I wonder what is making the Portuguese change their minds about the PJ.

melbel said...

Hi Sassy
I suppose so many Portugese work abroad or have relatives who do so.
They must have cottoned on that no serious newspaper or documentary in UK [and I heard America]was following the line of pointing the finger at the parents and they must get to hear about the criticisms from highranking foreign, including British, Police people.
I lose the plot sometimes, with my sentences, typing one finger. I can only get better ! Take care

SassyP said...

Hiya Melbel

Didn't think of that - was thinking in much more complicated a way! Of course, with the Internet and all the online papers everyone can see the way other countries see the case!

Rosiepops said...

Hi All

I have just posted the poll results on Alsabelia's site, just thought they may like to see them in case they have missed them

SassyP said...


How very considerate of you!

Rosiepops said...


Well I thought it only right, seeing as they like the truth on that blog (then I woke up)

SassyP said...

Just been reading the Casa Crud blog. The people writing comments there appear to have abandoned the Madeleine topic and to have focussed solely on our blog! Our Feedjit map shows their enthusiasm - Viseu is constantly flagged. Hiya Claudia sweety - enjoying yourself on our blog???

SassyP said...


That was one awful deep sleep you must have been in! What were you? Comatose?

Rosiepops said...

Well let's face it Sassy they pop over here if they want to learn the truth.

Hi Alsabelia (waves)

Rosiepops said...

I think I must have been hallucinating!

Rosiepops said...


Not that I mind and note we leave comments up, even if we do disagree with them, but Maria? Posting from Spain sticking up for the PJ?
I just found something a bit strange about those posts, can't quite put my finger on it though!

SassyP said...


Same here. The English sounds like someone who is pretending they cannot speak it properly, too.

I bet you and I are thinking the same!

Rosiepops said...

I think so Sassy! Strange things people find funny don't you think?

SassyP said...

Depends - if someone has an IQ which is roughly on par with their shoe size, then pretending to be a Spaniard might be a right laugh!

SassyP said...

Was just reading the article posted.

I can't think if it is better to know or not to know what happened to Madeleine (if she is dead) or Genette. It may be that your imagination of how awful the last few hours were isn't half as bad as the truth.

The fact that you can assume that the poor little kids were crying for their mums and wanted to go home so badly is awful enough. Although I would want to know exactly what happened to my child (assuming the body is found), I'm not sure I could live with the truth.

Rosiepops said...


that is it really you have to know, as a parent you just have to but once you know the truth you cannot unknow it! Living with it would be the hardest thing to do.
I feel so sorry for this man and I hope he does get his wish.

Thing is I think that Portugal has a serial child abductor on the loose and they are sleepwalking their children into tragedy if they do not wake up and realise it!

supertroll said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
SassyP said...


Why? I am talking about someone PRETENDING to be half Spanish, not actually being it! Have another read - I think you misread what I wrote.

SassyP said...


I can understand what that a parent would need to know what happened to their child. I just wonder if it is always for the best for them - as you said, you can't unknow it!

Rosiepops said...


I think you have misunderstood Sassy there, she wasn't talking about people being half Spanish she was talking about people pretending to be half Spanish.

Good to see you again.

SassyP said...



Rosiepops said...

The pain this poor man is in even after all this time is evident.

Did you read where the police were even talking to Black about a murder of a girl in Ireland?

I mention this because of Gran Canaria, PDL, Huelva.

I wish the PJ would wake up before another disaster happens!

supertroll said...

Ok Sassy,

Thanks for clarifying. I did read again.
No harm done.


SassyP said...


I think Rosie and I have clicked as to who "maria" actually is! We were referring to this person (who is British!)

Rosiepops said...

Also still no news of Shannon Matthews, poor little girl, her mother says she is convinced that someone is holding her!

Instead of all this arguing we should be uniting and showing these evil scum that if they do this kind of thing they will hounded, hunted down, found, tried and punished, they should be made to see they are not going to be allowed to get away with their sick crimes.

Instead we have a situation where everything the PJ do is whiter than white, they can do no wrong, they blame the parents put them through hell on earth and all this is allowing a child abductor/s to go free and what is even more scary, free to carry out their sick evil crimes again!

SassyP said...


What happened to your Feedjit map? Did you remove it?

supertroll said...

It is still there now. Is it not showing?
I can see it from my computer.


SassyP said...


I read on Wikipedia that Black is suspected of committing murders throughout Europe, not just Britain and Ireland.

SassyP said...


Reloaded page and it's come up now. Just got the wording Feedjit Map or whatever it is but no map!

supertroll said...

I don't know what to say, I am having no problem from my side.

Have to go now as I am cooking dinner.
Will be back later.


Rosiepops said...

Sassy just going to feed him or he will be moaning, will be back around 8.30 ish

See you later too ST

Tinkerbell43 said...

Evening All :-)

SassyP said...

Hiya Tinkz - a'itschood woman!

SassyP said...

See ya later Rosie and ST!

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hi Sass, thought it was something I said, lol.

Me thinks I know who the poster is too that you and Rosie were referring to, could I give you a tip ?

SassyP said...

Go for it, Tinks!

SassyP said...

I said "go for it", Tinks, not "go"!

Doppelganger said...

The double post was accidental by the way - that's another 3 posts on your blog - I should be charging you really.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Sass, never cross the road without looking!

Interesting poll in the Correio Da Manha. Seems as if public opinion is beginning to wane!. I read a little while ago, following Ribeiro's "hasty comment" a backlash had started.

SassyP said...


If you think it is me that is posting on Casa Crud using Babelfish translations then you are very wrong.

If I were to try and pass myself off as a foreign national, I would try it with a language I speak.

Don't forget we can see who is posting on our blog - it's not paranoia leading us to believe that "Maria" is not who she says she is.

SassyP said...


I was wondering what had started it!

Rosiepops said...

If I post anywhere I use my ID.

So is there any news about Madeleine?

Mandz said...

Evening all..!!

Anything new........? Are the PD!! here........? Have the interviews begun...?

Rosiepops said...

Hi mandz

just sent them again!

Rosiepops said...


That's right you did I remember you saying and I read it too, only it was a small paragraph in a report, but this is different at least the McCann's have a little bit of comfort.

Mandz said...

Thanks Rosie!

Rosiepops said...


Interesting you said that, where are the PJ?
I wish they would hurry up! Although what it will actually prove when they get here is another thing entirely (if they ever get here, I think they are walking!)
If they don't, I wonder who or what they are going to blame now?

Mandz said...

I do not normally respond to anonymous people,but understand that the British people will not idly stand by and allow a miscarriage of justice.
As for the Portugese Police,they have lost all credibility with their daily leaks and smears.
They think that they have done a good job in poisoning people via the tabloids, but we have not swallowed it as a nation.
Many on here are very socially involved individuals anyway.
You are on the wrong blog.Will not reply to you again.

03 March 2008 09:57

Melbel well said!!

The British public are not stupid and we will not stand for this "blame the parents".

Rosiepops said...

This was publishe on the 29th February

PORTUGUESE cops are to jet to Britain to interview Kate and Gerry McCann and their pals in a last-ditch bid to solve Maddie’s disappearance.

They want to quiz David Payne, Jane Tanner and partner Russell O’Brien, it was claimed.

Authorities have waited months for UK approval, but a source told newspaper 24 horas: “We are finalising the last few details. Within ten days’ a team of investigators will travel to the UK.”

Maddie went missing around 10pm from her holiday apartment in Praia da Luz last May as her parents ate with pals in a nearby restaurant.

Dr O’Brien, 36, was away from the group at the time changing bed linen after his child was sick. But staff say no-one asked for new sheets.

Portuguese police have made formal requests to seize Kate McCann’s diary, said to show how the GP struggled with the daily routine of work and childcare.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hi Mandz and Rosie,

No news that I can see. Even the Correio Da Manha have made use of their spare time and conducted a poll, an interesting one at that I may add!.

I think one of the reasons its quiet is that there is no real news. I suppose if we were like Casa Crud we could always make up some stories or conspiracy theories but I think we want to keep it real dont we ? We'll just have to be patient, hopefully the PJ will arrive this week!

Mandz said...

They will be embarrassed about coming and I hope our police are in on the interview to see exactly what is being “said”. Maybe they are walking or have decided to swim? Maybe that will be a theory for not turning up?

Rosiepops said...


If the PJ think that we will stand idly by and watch while this persecuted couple get more of the same, they definitely do not understand the British.

If they think we will just stand by and let them shelve this case, they can think again, we will not and we will not stop pressurising them until they do their job properly and if they do not want to look for Madeleine, then the PJ should hand over the files on this case to M3 or the Leicestershire police so they can.
I am sure they have missed something vitally important probably filed on a scrap of paper in the bin underneath the PJ fag ash!

Tinkerbell43 said...

Rosie, surely you must know its all our Governments fault and other people in high places!. This is one of the most ridiculous desperate excuses I have ever heard.

Mandz said...

Hiya Tinks!
Maybe they should fly to Portugal and help the PD?!! They could do with there help surely..!!

Tinkerbell43 said...

Mandz, do you remember the night LisaJ put up the flight co-ordinates for them, that was a classic.

I believe it will be our Police doing the interviewing, the PJ will only be observing from what I have read.

Mandz said...

Absolutely Rosie!
They should hand this over to Scotland Yard and Met3 now.
Coming over to look at Kate’s diary as she was struggling? Since when did they become experts in written English to fully understand what she meant? They had to bring in a translator for their statements which was the other suspect. Well done PD.
Kids are hard work, gosh the things I have said? My mother used to say to me “I’m going to kill you” !! Now she did not mean actually kill me!!!

Ops got to go visitors have arrived..

Mandz said...

Tinks thanks for that! Excellent they will being doing it! That way this will clear up any confusion on the PD side!!

Bye for now!!

Tinkerbell43 said...

See ya Mandz, enjoy the rest of your evening, looks like I've got time to make a cuppa aswell!

Doppelganger said...


Christ Church Oxford won University challenge by the way.

And I don't think it was you, I think you have more dignity and self respect.

But some of the people who have been posting here on your side of the fence are very obviously seriously deranged individuals.

All I am saying is, please be careful who you give personal details to and please be careful what sort of things people may try and get you involved with.

I really can't for the life of me understand why I am bothered, but things have turned really nasty recently and I think that anyone involved with what is going on at the moment needs to think really carefully about what they are doing and step back from the brink.

I really would like to think that none of you are involved, but I think it is possible that some of you know who is responsible.

And by the way Feedjit is not 100% accurate and constant references to it are just making you look amateurish and silly frankly.

I know you did not ask for my opinion and no doubt one of your 'experts' will be able to give you a sick twisted explanation for my motives but the boring reality is that I am actually quite a 'nice' person and some of you have inexplicably 'grown on me' over the past few months.

Perhaps I am a nutcase after all.

Christabel said...

Hi all, sorry I'm late.
Sister in hospital at Oswestry, 150mile trip to visit.

By the way tinks congrats on news yesterday, how heavy and name ? ( you don't have to say on here) just a nosey git lol.

Rosiepops said...


i tried again!

assasin said...

Just a quickie to back up dopplegangers comment.

Feejit is easily conned by any number of methods as is where you are posting from.

I would equally advise that since you have no legal protection as in copyright senses at all using a google blog in comparison to a copyrighted website etc that for you own safety, whilst there are individuals out there who are trying to be defamatory, libelous about several of the people that have been in here that you do not ever delete any surf history from your computer. Keep it all running so it will match with your ip number and isp provider log files etc etc. I'm very glad i do this i tell you after the nonsense the other night.

I'm just in with a quickie to try and keep you all protected cos I'm not using the blogs anymore on a regular basis because of the legal issues you leave yourself wide open to.

Its ok if you are keeping yourself right and if anyone wants info on that fine.

But this platform is not safe with such people as are out there copying, pasting and posting things to allege others did etc.

Keep taking care, and you do still have my respect, despite im 'out of here':-)

Tinkerbell43 said...

Dad/Dopple, with the greatest respect, why do you come here ?, you do not share our views, its obvious what you think of our Blog and posters to assume it is one of our posters that is out to cause trouble.

Maybe you need to take a step back and look at the kind of people that are posting on these other blogs that you tend to approve of.

The person causing trouble may not even be "known" to anyone, why do you automatically assume it is.

It seems you always want to play posters off against each other, maybe I am misunderstanding you but I'm sorry that is how you come across.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hi Nosey git :0)

8lb 14. Just known as bubba tink at the mo. They was convinced it was a boy. It was a bit dicey but they are both doing well today.

Thanks for your wishes.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Just a quickie, if I suddenly disappear its because I am having connection problems, keep getting cut off.

assasin said...

i know i have my run ins with dopel, but i think he is being genuine on this one.

Christabel said...

Tinks you don't have to agree with me ya fairy elephant lol.
Good weight, I bet they are pleased after their losses.
I think I told you our Di lost 5, how she coped i don't know.

Rosiepops said...


That diary is a red herring. Apparently Kate did not even start keeping it until after Madeleine vanished, she started keeping it on the advice of the psychologist that was helping them through.

Unless in it she said I killed Madeleine, what use will it be?

It will have absolutely no bearing on anything, stating that she found it hard to cope with a toddling Madeleine and twin babies? aaahhhh Join the club wouldn't we all?

Oh but I expect that Alsabelia is Portuguese mother of the year too.
I read on the DX that Alsabelia has help with her children, excuse me if I am wrong but didn't Alsabelia criticize the McCann's for putting their children in the kiddies club?

Why is this behaviour ok for some and not others.

Rosiepops said...


good post re doppel.

Why should it be anyone from here? I cant think of anyone that would do such a disgusting thing as that.

Doppel I think you should go and give the same advice to Viv's site where you have said you have posted, that blog is a libel minefield and I hope she has reported that to the police and I hope they look through her whole site, it is a disgrace.

Rosiepops said...

I didn't get to read about what the French police said about the video, does anyone know what it was?
Are they going to allow Kate and Gerry to view it?

assasin said...

Rosie - small clue - when is the last time viv/felicity herself posted;-)

Some people will not stand for her nonsense, libel and defamation and I am one.

Anonymous said...

Gina M says

I want to set the record straight. I just had an email from a friend who asked me if I was Maria. The answer is no I am not, and if she has any sense she will not post here again.

You will recall I got angry at being called a liar by some on here and that I was also pretending to be Bee. So I decided to do what you accused me of and lie and none of you were smart enough to know McJustice was me. Rosiepops admitted that some of you were proactive but could not speak about it and sassy gave me an email address. I was going to take it further later and wind you up more but unfortunately the people I was targeting did not take the bait because they do not care about Madeleine they just want to argue and I(as McJustice) was boring so got ignored. Only those of you that genuinely believe in what you are saying got sucked in and for that I am sorry.

I have never done it before and will not do it again, on that you have my word and I have not passed the email address to anyone nor will I.

I was angry and did what I did for that reason, but there are not many people who would have the courage to admit to it so I trust you will accept what I am saying and leave it at that.

Tinkerbell43 said...

I've never understood the amount of criticism they received for putting the children in the creche. The facilities are there for a reason there must be a demand. It looked like there was plenty of family fun time too. Because others wouldnt do it, it doesnt make it wrong.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Rosie, I'm pretty certain the French sighting has been ruled out. I have a feeling Gerry has confirmed this on his blog, but I've not checked.

Rosiepops said...


I dont get you, you have just admitted pulling a fast one and getting genuine people to trust you, you go back to A's blog and boast about doing something really funny.

Then you say that is Maria's got any sense she will not post here again!
Is it any wonder we do not trust when people come on and recount dubious sounding stories, especially in the light of what you have just told us?

Also getting people to trust you and then laughing at them because they do, is nothing to be proud of and I am actually quite surprised at you.

I cant think of anyone on here that would pull a stunt like that Gina - Well done.

Rosiepops said...

Thanks Tinks

I wanted to read it but was so busy I didn't have the time. I could never see it as being true anyway, just treated it as usual, hope for the best while fearing the worse.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Well I have to say Gina, I was one that got sucked in, I was even looking forward to you replying with some ideas we could work with.

Now you can go and have a laugh at my expense, I'm just sorry you felt you had to do that.

Doppelganger said...


I have just given you my genuine reason.

On the DE forum it was all a 'game' to people, but the DE forum was moderated and checked by lawyers and any posts which might get people into trouble were removed.

Now everyone has split into two camps things are getting nasty and people are doing and saying things without thinking about the consequences, often based on legal knowledge apparently gleaned from Wikipedia.

On saturday night I came here because I get bored talking to people who agree with me and I find the views of people who think differently from me interesting, sometimes I even learn something about myself and other people.

But tonight I have come here because I am genuinely concerned about what went on over the weekend.

There are nice people on both sides of the fence. Many of the people on the other side actually respect some of you here, although they do not agree with you obviously.

All I am saying is, it's not a game anymore. Please carry on doing what you believe in, but please be sensible and try and retain some sort of grip on reality.

Christabel said...

Hey Rosie, do you want a membership for Star City ?

Rosiepops said...

Don't worry Tinks, we get ridiculed for trusting people and ridiculed for not trusting people.

Some of us are trying to be pro-active and actually do something to help.

If that is cause for a good laugh and a joke then they can laugh at me too.

And they wonder why we do not trust them? Multiple IDs, running around from site to site posting wind up comments.

Don't worry Tinks, she who laughs last, laughs the longest.

Rosiepops said...

No thanks Christabel, I think I'll pass,

Wonder if they swing?

JANEGT said...

Yesterday must have been very traumatic for the McCanns and extended family.

I know of the Black cases, and yes, far more children were abducted and more by him as he boasted so - but refused to name them. Cat and mouse game with Investigators. Pure evil.

I cannot 'know' how they feel, the parents of children missing, abused, dead .... but I do know I would prefer to know the outcome so that in my mind I would not hold on to false hope. Look at the Yorkshire Ripper and the mother who has begged and begged for decades just for Christian burial for her poor son. No. She just cannot let go. No parent ever can let go completely, but some sort of closure gives some sort of peace. Just a little, but the knowledge helps a little.

It is awful and somehow it has to stop if we all concentrate our efforts and are vigilant.

I also recall the Jennette Tate case.

assasin said...

I replied to you too. I am not in the slightest offended at what you did at all. I would have worked out fast if it was genuine or not given what you followed up with in mail since i work with this stuff all the time, not just since this case came up.

I would respond again if anyone else came along and did what you did cos ultimately the case is anything that can be done to the mcCann cause to help should be done.

If i was offended at all, it would mean i was here because of myself and had, had my pride hit. I dont suffer from pride, so humbly admit - you got me, and youd get me again doing the same for genuine want to help.

Doppelganger said...


Just read your post.

I am sat here, wasting my bloody time trying to get them to realise how easily they could all be scammed or dragged into a murky world that they obviously know very little about.

They actually think people like us are, nasty sick individuals when the people they really need to be worried about would pose as their 'friends', not sit arguing with them for God's sake.


Tinkerbell43 said...

Hello Jane, nice to see you, I hope you didnt get daffodils yesterday ;-)

I saw your best wishes this morning, thank you for that.

Rosiepops said...


I do not think that person who done that posts on this site.

I hope that she has reported it to the police.

What has it got to do with us further than this?

Christabel said...

Hey Jane, glad to see you mate !

Anonymous said...

Gina Says

Rosie you have got it a bit wrong I am afraid. I posted on Alsabella's site that I had done something funny earlier this afternoon and it has nothing to do with what I have just been talking about. Bee emailed about an hour ago and said she had been reading on this site and people seemed to think someone called Maria was bogus and she asked if it was me (As she knew I had posted as McJustice). I told her the same as I have told you, Maria is not me. The reason I said if she has sense not to post again is because I think she might actually be genuine, but I know if she says anything good about the PJ when your heavy's get on here she will get slaughtered.

And to set the record straight I have as I said never mentioned anything about this on Alsa's site or given away that email address which if I had been trying to make you all look a laughing stock I could have.

Can I now assume I have now yet made another big mistake in assuming that you are unable to accept what I said as fact and are now twisting the truth to make it out to be far worse than it was.

Rosiepops said...

Hi Jane

Glad to see you back.

Reading about Black and Geanette's father, I can see why he says what would a court case prove, what he is scared of is never knowing what happened to his daughter and if the case of his daughter went to court he may never know what happened to her.
God what a situation to be in, completely between a rock and hard place.
Poor parents how dreadful, I remember that case well.

Sassy was saying that Black has been questioned for other disappearances and murders all over the country as well as Ireland.

assasin said...

ok, we know the person who did it doesnt post on this site. the advice is still genuine though.

Look at how many people were actually reeled into believing that i posted that stuff on vivs site. Or that supertroll did. I never post on her site, never even looked before i became aware of the other nights events, and yeah, th is will be seen as more denial as they are suggesting, of course it isnt. But see how fast they can twist things to make something out that did not happen? And i do see it happening in here at times too. I will add, not by yourself or any of your team, just an odd couple of posters.

Be careful. I've been around this game a long time and deal with abuse victims online a lot, which means abusers too. I see through it all, but be very aware.

Any messenger conversations you have, emails you send, whatever - cc the mail to yourself and preferably bcg to a third party too, save everything and cover yourself all the time.

Dopel is right in all of this.

So many people think they are genuinely helping, no matter the side and they are making themselves vulnerable instead.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hi guys, lets not get taken off topic :-)

melbel said...

As for remarks which are libellous, I do not think that the pros have anything to worry about, as we are not making such accusations .
I think viv's and alsa's site could be in real trouble and that is where the Police will be concentrating.
I hope that all tabloids in Portugal and UK, the PJ who have leaked and all posters who have made libellous statements against the Mccanns will have their day in Court and that all proceeds will be given to charities for missing and abused children.

JANEGT said...

I don't care who who is or is not. I do not care about other blogs.

I care about Madeleine only here.

Tinks yes, I am walking a little oddly just now.....

Yesterday I got a very large daisy pot plant, .... ;o)))

Doppelganger said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Gina says


I am sorry Assasin I know you responded and would have sussed me eventually if I had kept saying I could not speak on an open site then never emailed on the address I had been given

I would never do anything wicked to harm anyone, I was just b...dy angry and I think someone said I was also stupid so I thought I will show you whose stupid and did what I did. I haven't gloated about it or anything and would not have bothered to post in that name again but it seemed today that just maybe people were beginning to start speculating again about another person.

Anyway from here on, it's over for me I don't read or post here anymore just did it for obvious reasons.

SeaWitch said...


I think you can be a bit of a berk sometimes but I like you and I'm glad you're here.

I don't recall ever much agreeing with you before but I felt for you on Saturday night and I respect you for coming back.

If you put the mixing spoon away for a bit you'd be very likeable. Sorry about that, because I know you really want to be nominated for Supertroll's "Most Annoying" award!!

I think your sentiments are genuine tonight and I agree with you.

For once ;-)

Chinadoll said...

Hi Everyone,

Still nothing new.

What this article does show, is that other parents that have been through similar nightmares, can empathise with Madeleines' parents and that their hearts go out to them.

I firmly believe, that in years to come, we may be reading another tragic story of another missing little child and the real life horror of what this family has had to endure, will coming rushing back - no matter what the conclusion of this case.

Rosiepops said...

TBH I do not care anymore, just leave it.

I just want to talk to others on here about stuff we want to talk about.

JANEGT said...

Hi Rosiepops, Christabel.

Trust you are well.

I don't know if you saw a programme on very very late at night recently on the mind of a serial killer, child abductor and paedophiles. It was a real eye opener.

Once caught sadly = usually tip of Iceberg and they enjoy the 'game'. Quite similar to serial blog abusers who do it for 'fun' say the will never come back and do. Again and again and again under so many id's therefore serial id'ers too. Sad really.

Rosiepops said...


Hi there. I agree with you, it is my worse fear that another child is going to get taken (if they haven't already) and I cannot understand why people are not worried about that.

It must be dreadful, your child is missing, you know she has been abducted and you cannot make them believe you and they they turn on you and accuse you of harming her and this confirms your worse nightmare that they are not searching for her!

Rosiepops said...


That's true, are you talking about that Belgium man de Truit (? spelling?) it was truly shocking, at least they got two of the girls back alive, what a terrible terrible story.

I see so many similarities too.

Rosiepops said...


I just have to believe that Madeleine's parents will discover what happened to her that night for their own sake, but more than this I still hope that she will be found alive.

In years to come when people look back on what these parents were forced to endure, people are going to be shocked and angry and I hope those that are causing their grief to be multiplied hang their heads in shame.

JANEGT said...

One thing Madeleine's prominence in the media has given us, is the returning to analyse older and cold cases that we can perhaps bring to light and re-examine. the internet has brought so much power and good in causes. Conversely it has brought a lot of harm, as we personally know here as do all bloggers etc.

If this media campaign can be highlighted and help a lot of others then something very good indeed has come out of this.

Sadly watching such programmes analysing this horrible subject is sickening, but you have to watch. We owe it to Madeleine, others before and any that sadly come, and they will, after.

we are all so much more aware now.

that in itself is a good thing.

melbel said...

Hello Jane and friends. I am forgetting my manners.
As well as the agony that the Mccs share with the Tates about not knowing what happened to their beloved child,they also have to endure the cruel remarks of ill informed people, fed pap by tabloid newspapers.
With the internet and global communications, every Tom, Dick and Harry want to be judge and jury.
It really isn't right.
Not staying guys, as I need my beauty sleep and how.
Nite and sleep tite X

assasin said...

I'd like to apologise to you for my run in with you the other night, it did at points get out of order. I know we got on when i was batting for the other camp which i genuinely do no longer belong to and do now feel kate and gerry are innocent. But, i got a bit annoyed with you the other night and probably shouldnt have. You arent like the viscious of the other camp. Im happy to talk to those of other camp that arent, deranged.

You are right though, that opportune is not there anymore since split camps so none of this helps Madeleine at all.

I don't think i ever called you stupid Gina? I hope not. I dont like some of your posting angles but none of us are here to like/dislike - we are supposed to be here for Madeleine.

When i say dont like, i dont mean your confession tonight either - thats no problem as far as im concerned.

I know people are being told to shut up here and get back on topic.

However, im actually seriously wondering if this is not opportune for something productive to come out of this for the cause, no matter what side we belong to...?

I'm out of the blog game too, but?

Is there a way forward another way?

Chinadoll said...


Sadly, I agree that they do not appear to be looking for Madeleine and have not been doing so for some time.

Ever since the pj adopted a hunch viz a viz the parents, they have fully concentrated on finding the evidence to suit the hunch.

I suppose this is natural, they have an inquisitorial justice system and accuse first and try to find the evidence to prove the accusations thereafter.

In this instance, they realise, belatedly, that there is no evidence - hence Portuguese Authors being promoted via Portuguese media, with alledged contributors (well certainly implied as such) from the Portuguese police.

How desperate can they get?

Chinadoll said...

Goodnight Melbel,

Rest well and sleep tight.

JANEGT said...

good evening chinadoll

nice to see you how are you tonight?

Yes I agree. You can't make the wrong sized shoe fit the foot ever. Trying to makes you look a fool which they have done. You cannot have secrecy laws, then break it by the back door. Then complain when the victims try to do same with a PR advisor.

Not on. A form of bullying. You see it everywhere, even on blogs and forums.



supertroll said...

Hello everyone,
Interesting conversations going on...

Just a thought:
Don't let what happend in Viv's site and their reaction affect you.
This blog is doing far better...


dianeh said...

Hi Jane, Rosie, Tinks, Sassy, Christabel, Assassin and anyone I have left out accidentally.

A while ago, I was watching a show on serial killers and there was one thing that stood out. In many cases, the serial killer likes to keep one of his kills to him/herself. So although they may confess to many murders (once caught that is), they will often leave one or more out, to keep some sort of control over the situation. I am no expert in this but it did make sense.

Genette may be one of the 'hidden' ones. Black may never tell what he knows as by keeping it private, he is keeping the police playing his 'game'.

assasin said...

Good grief. Out of here. Talk about paranoia and people wanting to keep thier little babies about self running?

I tested something in here yesterday too Gina actually.

I posted how i had spent mothers day - go and read the marked difference in posts/days and events.

It is interesting, very. This has turned into a mothers grief and fear and pride club, whereas the opposing campe are equally mothers pride clubs, but vitriole and rage too rather than grief and fear.

Bye all.

Anyone interested in doing something productive, feel free to contact me. If the paranoia has not taken over:-)

Doppelganger said...


I have spent a lot of time debating and arguing the case with many of the people who post here over the last few months.

But certain people obviously do not want me here for some reason and I think others ought to ask themselves why.

As I said to Rosiepops, I am now officially no longer bothered.

Thanks for your post

I am giving up for now

Chinadoll said...

Really struggling to make out what has been happening this evening - the back posts are a bit confusing.
Perhaps I should read them forward back instead of back forward?

SassyP said...


Fell asleep and now it is midnight so I am going back to sleep!

See you all tomorrow!

Doppelganger said...


This is your blog.

If you don't want me to post here, just say so and I won't.

Not much of a bloody stalker am I?

Nite, nite everyone.

assasin said...

Just saw you come online there as i genuinley am going for the last time.

I'd like to say bye though. I have very much enjoyed the conversations with you. Serial killers is a massive subject, one i have followed for a long, long time. Not trying to split or separate the crowd here but you are and do pick up the differences where they are rather than seeing similarites which are not there, being spurned by media at the moment.

The keep on hidden is a tactic of any controlling person, serial killers, controlling man whatever. It allows them to bask in the 'having on over' on others feeling. Satifies the narcissist if you like.

Take care, have enjoyed the chats:-)


Chinadoll said...

Absolutely Supertroll,

This blog, is indeed, doing very nicely.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Doppel, you have made your point, and I have taken on board what you said.

Come and debate by all means, but you have not always been pleasant in your references to us so its hardly surprising when one questions your motives.

Goodnight to you.

SeaWitch said...


Are you gone AGAIN???

Actually, I think it’s you people need protecting from.

I can’t recall ever agreeing with anything Doppelganger said but I found your posts to him disturbing; the manner in which you demanded that he reveal his true identity, with the implied threat that if he did not do so, you already know it and would out him to the world, was nothing short of harassment and intimidation. There is a big difference between debating, (or even annoying one another),and sinister threats.

I also found your unpleasant post to JaneGT unwarranted, and deserving of an apology. She is funny and adorable and I certainly enjoy her posts. You seem to have apologised to everyone else tonight, but with what degree of sincerity?

Worst of all was the amateur psychobabble aimed at all the “antis” in your response to Doppelganger at 23:52 on 1st March. This was a very revealing post – but only about you. Whilst I do not agree with most of what appears on the other blogs, your post was openly accusing them of sexual perversion and paedophilia.

I do not wish to be associated with such utter bilge.

Whether you agree with the opinions of the posters on the other sites or not, they are human beings, with families, including children, and this is the most despicable, hurtful accusation to hurl at them. You accuse others of hiding behind anonymity to say vile things, without a trace of irony.

You would take a different stance, I’m sure, if Alsabella or Viv were to say such things about the McCanns.

You seem to take pleasure in confrontation, hence, I suppose, your username and avatar of choice, but you cross the boundaries of acceptability to me. I read your post on Alsabella’s site on 27th February, telling her to hang herself, in which you did neither yourself, nor this blog, any favours.

I suspect you have issues that the internet cannot help you with, but, unlike you, I do not consider myself equipped to make a diagnosis on the basis of a few posts.

You keep saying you are out of here and clearly have more worthy things to do. Go and lead by example, then, and do them.

JANEGT said...


Lovely we are on at same time for a change.....yes I agree with your thoughts quite a lot of the time too.

dianeh said...


I dont see your last point as being valid. The posters on both sides have the same fear, of child abduction, child abuse, neglect, paedophilia. We just express ourselves differently. We see deep sadness and feel compassion for the victims as well as the parents.

While some on the opposing side also feel that way, many on the other side feel anger and as such lash out looking for someone to blame. I think you have said something very similar to this and the reasons it happens.

And then there are the obviously deranged individuals who are a problem for all sites. So what if someone fools us (or thinks they have). I never give any credence to those who pretend they have important secrets.

I want to discuss/debate Madeleine. And I like the format/feel in this blog. It is supportive but that doesnt make it less interesting. I dont need confrontation every time I come onto the blog and I suspect neither does anybody else.

Rosiepops said...

Good night Melbel and sleep well xxx


I think this is all about a face saving exercise for the PJ now. I also cannot believe a country that has these archaic secrecy laws yet allows their police to leak misinformation to blacken people's characters and allows Portuguese journalists and Portuguese authors to write rubbish books, which they fill with garbage and present as facts. While the McCann's are threatened with prison of they break their secrecy order!

How about some parity here? I am afraid what with the gross negligence and the complete mishandling of this case, Portugal is losing respect and credibility in the eyes of the world.

If I were Portuguese I would not be arguing that Kate and Gerry are guilty and backing the PJ up like they have been Canonised, i would be pressurising my government o do something about the appalling misjustice that is occurring there.

It is a disgrace!

JANEGT said...


reading them back to front, inside out, front to back end on end makes no difference. Some are on to stir, some to debate, some to play games, and some to keep saying they will never come baack then do. Even within 2 minutes of last post. Beggars belief. Some address posts to one person alone, some talk of other blogs, and completely off topic. Some complain people do not agree and get upset, but that is what this is, a debate isn't it??? Others leave their own agenda via email contacts................completely off.

Now I agree with your points as you have stated often here. The PJ cannot have a secrecy law which must not be broken, gag the McCanns, then complain when they do all they could viz get a PR to help by speaking out and keeping Madeleine's profile up, Justine McGuinness then know my views on him...... otherwise, we would still be in complete dark over this case. All we would have would be the 'leaks'...these archaic laws must be brought in line with EEC generally. It is ridiculous to live by that system. You said this in one of your previous posts. Intolerable.

Mum21 said...


I am pleased you are at last out of the blog game. I am too.
My reasons may be slightly different to yours...I am not sure.
To matter what side of the fence we sit...we are doing nothing at all to help the cause we support.
Blogging is nothing more than blogging....and I am sure the whole McCann family and the Portuguese PJ would prefer they did not exist.
We are not helping the McCann's anymore than alsabella is helping the PJ.
I have thought hard about all this over the last couple of days and realise the only reason the DE and DM called a halt to because WE all caused to much trouble or heartache...depending on what side we are sitting..just by insisting on having our say. It all got way out of hand...and continues to do so.
The best way the general public can help the McCann's is to email them with their support.
Other than that we should leave them in peace to get on with their lives the best way they can.

Good Night and God Bless to you all.

Doppelganger said...


At least you have got the message, I don't think anyone else is listening.

I could not say what you have just said, because it would have been portrayed as me stirring and playing mind games with people.

There are people here playing mind games, I can see it - others obviously cannot.

I hope people think seriously about what you and Gina have said.

Oh and I can be a bit of a berk sometimes, I was beginning to think I had been one tonight, but perhaps not.

Goodnight and thank you.


Chinadoll said...



In the Daily Telegraph (paper version) almost 90% of respondents polled, in the 'test for public opinon' want an referendum on Europe and in particular, the Lisbon Treaty has really put so many shackles up so many backs.

The poll was based 152,000 repondents and 133,00 wanted a vote on the said referendum.

Citizens are climbing on to the Houses of Parliament to have their say and swinging from cranes on building sites.

Portugal should not underestimate the loyalty and tenacity of the British.

dianeh said...


I will miss your input, as although I dont always agree, re my last point (and I didnt disagree with your observation just the way you used fear to represent us, saddened by it all is how I see us), I do enjoy your input.

Drop in from time to time, especially if you come across anything you find that you think we might want to discuss.

All the best to you

SassyP said...

Hiya Jane

Nice to see you back. I see Gina has written another bunch of comments saying the usual "I won't be back, I am never posting here again", bla bla.

Don't know what e-mail address I am supposed to have given her - I never pass out e-mail addresses. She must have muddled me up with someone else.

Don't know why she would feel so proud about what she did there with this McJustice malarky. They were obviously running out of stuff to say on the Casa Crud site so she decided to supply them with a laugh. How low can someone stoop?

Tinkerbell43 said...

I'm off for the night now, just aswell as my connection has been a bloody nightmare tonight. Happy debating. Take care all xx

JANEGT said...


I have an applause and encore key on my new NON tesco keyboard and am pressing it full and hard.

feel better now? Glad you are on not seen you a while apart from the Saturday Night Massacre. Crucifixion of thought, debate, manners, All time low to which me must never descent again. They will not jump in my puddle again and splash me.

I agree posting venom on other blogs and parading them here and asking if you can help people is farcical, as was McJustice. I knew immediately that was a scam. It is also insulting.....I didn't even rise to it yet the person is accusing people who did not rise to the juvenile prank as not 'caring'. ha ha ha ha ha ha

Please send replies to my pet monkey who occasionally posts for me, or I bring with me for you to feed. Like Opus and.........

well fill in the gaps....there are too many to mention and it would sound like the Oscars. Did you know, my monkey's name is OSCAR.


Rosiepops said...


It is not MY blog, this blog is OUR blog moderated by four of us, albeit 3 at the moment as one of us is ill.

If you want to stay and debate and chat with people on here you are very welcome, but to be honest I see precious little of it, each time you come on, you are speaking about other things that really do not concern us.

I take you point about earlier and the content is noted.

We have never really got on and without dredging all that nonsense up again, please lets draw a line under it.
As I said you are welcome here a light banter, etc while sticking and also talking about the topic in hand is fine by me. I hate all this constant unpleasantness and you must admit that I come in for it daily where you post on both sites (I do not mean the 3 As because I never look in there) and I know I do not deserve that utter tripe and so I think do you.
Be honest where do you see me making pages and pages of references to that other person? That is completely deranged behaviour.

I will not tell you to go, because I actually do believe in free speech
and I have no wish to take away your voice and at least you post under your ID so we know who we are talking to.

Anonymous said...

Gina M Says

Thank you for that remark sassy, You said to McJustice you can email on this address. I copied it, then you removed it. I can prove this by pasting the comment back on here but I will not embarrass you by doing that (as if you would let it be seen anyway)

I only came back today to set the record straight and admit to what I had done that is not stooping low it is having the courage to not let others who may be genuine be accused of being someone else.

As usual I wish I had never bother and that my b friend had not emailed me and asked me to take a look.

dianeh said...


You make some very poignant points in you last post.

But you are forgetting that people (for better or worse) are affected by what has happened to Madeleine and the blogs allow these people to discuss the situation with others that also care. I am someone who due to my own private reasons, have found Madeleine's disappearance very difficult to deal with.

I find that in the real world, no one wants to discuss details. Many dont know any details and most dont want to know. They want her found, and most have an opinion on what happened. But that is as far as it goes.

I dont kid myself that we are really doing anything to help the McCanns, other than to post opposing views which others may read and help them to form an opinion and maybe sway public opinion in a very small way.

I am on here to help myself mostly and not doing any harm to anyone else, especially the McCanns. So I guess I am saying the blog has two purposes.

1 To try to give support to the entire McCann family
2 To help those who post on here by allowing discussion on a subject we care about.

I will miss you, if you dont come back. I enjoy your posts very much.

Rosiepops said...

Night Tinks

Sleep well take care xxx Tuesday tomorrow. Play dough duties loom!

JANEGT said...


I wish you good night.

I trust you are leaving for the night, and not for longer. I value your posts, and have done for many, many months now. I know we have had this blog compromised by people trying to deviate, divide and disperse aggressively but we can take it back to what it was. It must have been good for them to even try this tactic which will fail.

Our humourous, thoughtful, genuine caring and positive posts can and do make a difference. Swampin the McCanns with emails will not help. Let's face it only Clara will read them. And what will he do? Spin them .... into the bucket We can't have that. We need your balanced posts here.

See you soon.


Mum21 said...

dianeh...thank you for your reply.
I am also affected by what happened to Madeleine...but what good does it do her to constantly comment on a blog? or argue on a blog? Or copy and paste messages on opposing blogs?
If everybody was to be truthful for a moment they would admit the real reason they are here...or on any other for themselves.
These blogs are sinking lower and lower...even this one. Doppleganger was speaking the truth tonight...where will it end?
Well..for me I am ending it now..full stop.

dianeh said...

Hi Jane

good to be on here at the same time.

Agree with your last post to Mum21. I hope she stays.

I must admit to having a bit of giggle at some of your posts but at other times I cant even work out what the hell you are saying. me thinks the brain is going faster than the fingers sometimes. or it may be a foreign translation thing going from English to Australian.

keep it up.

Chinadoll said...

Entrapment sound familiar anyone?

And to boast about it to hoot.

Well our snout nosed friend, I certainly did not respond to your honeypot. I do not criticise those that did, they are just more trusting and less cynical than me. They believe in a cause and wish to help anyway they can. Hence your victory (as you view it)
As for me, I have a limited amount of time to give, but choose to spend it here and have learnt so much from my time amongst everyone.
You should be nominated for a Portuguese award ...for best attender - you and your pals.

JANEGT said...

chinadoll are you asleep???

not like you to be so quiet.

Any more viewpoints on the PJ and M3 etc? You didn't expan on them before. what you did say I agreed with.

SeaWitch said...

Goodnight, Janegt, Chinadoll, Rosie, Doppelganger, GinaM, Tinkerbell and anyone else I have inadvertently missed off the list.

Mum21, goodnight to you. I know you'll be back and I hope to read you soon!

Won't see you all tomorrow,but take care x

dianeh said...


You will be missed.

dianeh said...


You will be missed.

JANEGT said...

ha chinadoll you ARE awake


diane....hey SCOTTISH not English. (joke by the way....)

Sometimes I may have said Scottish words to Big L when cybernagging him to stop smoking. Wish I knew how he was doing with that. I liked his humour, but not his stance on Madeleine, but he was funny and usually kind.

Yes my fingers often don't keep up with my brain, but now it is midnight here my brain is a lot slower than my fingers. We have a foot of snow here today, and traffic chaos ensued, naturally. Oh dear. Seems like we will have it for a week......

well, off to read what I crossed posts with Chinadoll on.......

nice you and I are here at same time. I know what you mean about your posts............ ;o)

take care

Anonymous said...

Isencerely,owe you amassive appology,i am truly sorry for my abbusive posts to you i see you are held in high esteem here .so my heartfelt appoliges once againhope im forgiven not surprised if im not,but once again i am really sorry
thankyou in advance.

Chinadoll said...


I wish to apologise in advance for speaking to you in this tone, because you have my utmost respect and I have learnt much from you and your poetry and your beautiful site.

If you are truly telling me and others that there is no point continuing this blog about Justice for ALL the family, then I am gobsmacked.

Ok Mum21,
If Madeleine and her family do not have a voice on these irrelevant blogs, then who does?

I, for one, will do my bit, no matter how worthless, to contribute

Please Mum21, you have contributed so much and should continue to do so.

SassyP said...


It wouldn't embarrass me - I just don't remember passing on an e-mail address, so copy and paste away.

Rosiepops said...


Good night and thanks for the great posts.

Look forward to the next time you are on x

dianeh said...


I dont respond very often to anonymous but the other night I responded to Simply Ludicrous who got offended because I made light of her name. Total waste of time, as she was unable to debate, only able to resort to the neglect thing again. Also though McJustice was talking rubbish, I dont think I even answered at all.

So I agree, lets ignore anon's unless they want to identify themselves. But I do see a problem. Anyone can use someone else's ID. How do we know who is telling the truth. Just exercise a bit of caution. Also would suggest to all regulars that you get yourself a google/blogger account, so we can see that no one else is using your ID.

Just a bit of caution, following Dopel's advice. Never thought I would be saying that. But his advice is very valid.

This has worried me since I first got onto this blog. I like to know who I am talking to.

dianeh said...


Scottish hey. Well, well that explains an awful lot doesnt it.

Chinadoll said...

Thanks for that Diane,

Actually, I have my suspicions that this has and is already happening.

JANEGT said...


I cannot accept an apology from a blank.
which is what anon is.
name yourself.
You are playing a game. Anyone who owes me an apology can at least SPELL.



Tinkerbell43 said...

Mum21, If your mind is made up then I am sorry to hear of your decision but thank you for the support you have given us. This has been one hell of a baptism of fire for me and a learning curve all at the sametime.

I am not here for myself, I am here to try and dispell the horrendous smear campaign this family have been subjected to and by doing so, I hope I can sway a little piece of public opinion.

K & G know what has been said about them in the papers and on the Internet, this is why Kates mother and father have pleaded for the smear campaign to stop.

I have donated to the fund, I have sent messages of support but there are people out there in the absence of any news that will be looking into places like this for any information they can get because Madeleine has touched a lot of hearts. If we are not here where do they go, Casa Crud, Viles ?

Somebody has to maintain the balance. I hope we can achieve that.

Should you not come back, I wish you the very best of luck for the future.

Chinadoll said...

Well all,

I am saying Goodnight.

So, goodnight from me and goodnight from her.

A response is not necessary.

JANEGT said...

good night seawitch if you are still reading.

catch you next time you are on.

I too share a lot of posters views here, and wish that Mum21 comes back refreshed to post - sooner rather than later. Her invaluable support is required and I am sure she will see that too. There are a lot of people here who would miss her, so she won't go for good. Just a huge dose of FF that we ll get, and are bound to, after 10 months......


JANEGT said...






sleep well

hope it is warmer than here where you are.

dianeh said...

New article just appeared on Daily mail.

Hope this paste works but if not, google new, search for madeleine mccann. Sort by date. This is top of the list.

Another possible sighting back in May and they were not even contacted by the police. Give the PJ the benefit of the doubt, maybe the boat was one of their own, so they didnt need to interview them. But surely needed to, to make absolutely sure.

Rosiepops said...

Sorry people have missed some of you and so I say goodnight to those I have missed. Sleep well.x

I have been reading the back posts and removed one where I was told to grow up for no apparent reason, I don't have to take that from anyone anymore and I wont Doppel and we do not speak to each other in this way on here, this is not the DX.

I just want to put the record straight, us who moderate this blog are not fools and we know what is going on and actually we can see a lot more than we have been given credit for on here tonight. Some things are best left to burn themselves out, sometimes doing nothing is best.

I do take on board what Doppel has said and I have seen this happening long before we entered this blog, it was happening on the DX forum in a big way, some posters just could not quite keep their sinister nature out of their comments no matter how hard they tried and some of them have visited this blog. We are also very aware of other aspects and they are kept a strict eye on.

Just thought I would let you all know this in case any of you think we do not see what is happening.

JANEGT said...


read your daily mail link as I was signing out.

what worries me frankly is that this is yet another sighting from 'S W ENGLAND' where murat and families with McCanns were prior to holiday in P d L......

It will be slated as McCann spin I bet you....................

oh dear. The PJ have not invetigated so much and more I am certain we do not have any news of. Ridiculous.

off now.....

see you again Diane

It's coming up to 1 am so better go.

take care.

Anonymous said...


Rosiepops said...

China, Diane, Jane and others I have left out, I want to thank you personally for your posts over the past couple of days, they have helped us keep the blog on track, which is sometimes very hard to do!
There are others too bit they are not posting at the moment and will catch up with them tomorrow.

Now I am going off because I am tired and have a long day tomorrow.

Good night sleep well and take care all of you and thanks too xxx

God Bless Madeleine xxx God Bless Mari xxx God Bless Shannon xxx

dianeh said...

Good night to you all.

And for the morning. I saw Shannon's mother and father on the tv this morning. He kept himself together until the end. She didnt. My heart breaks for them. I wish and hope and pray that Shannon will be home soon.

supertroll said...

Goodnight Rosiepops,

Sorry I blew up before, I wasn't in a good mood and don't know what came over me. I'll apologise to Sassy tomorrow.

As I said before, I feel this blog is doing very well.
Keep up the good work and ignore the troublemakers.


Anonymous said...

Rosiepops said...

If the PJ think that we will stand idly by and watch while this persecuted couple get more of the same, they definitely do not understand the British.

If they think we will just stand by and let them shelve this case, they can think again, we will not and we will not stop pressurising them until they do their job properly and if they do not want to look for Madeleine, then the PJ should hand over the files on this case to M3 or the Leicestershire police so they can.
I am sure they have missed something vitally important probably filed on a scrap of paper in the bin underneath the PJ fag ash!

Rosiepops: Did I miss something? My understanding was that the PJ were coming to England to observe the questioning but that the questioning would be done by the Leicester police.

dianeh said...

Rosie, Sassy, Tinks

I found this item on blogging that was in the news in Aust today.

It is very interesting.

Here is the link.

dianeh said...

Let me try again with the link

Link will have a few spaces in it, but take them out and will work.


Anonymous said...

I think the very worst possible scnario is when your child is missing and you don't know what happened.

Recently, I was watching an interview with Natalee Halloway's mom who felt that after the alledged suspect's confession to an undercover reporter and you could tell she was relieved to know what finally had happened to her daughter. For her and the family, the hardest aspect of Natalee's case was the NOT KNOWING.

SassyP said...

Dianeh - thanks so much. Just reading it now.

Anonymous - that has to be the worst thing, the not knowing, I agree.

Minute For Madeleine McCann

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