Sunday, 30 March 2008

‘Tapas Nine’ to face three days of police interviews

Portuguese police are planning to question the so-called Tapas Nine during three days of interviews in a final attempt to solve the mystery of Madeleine McCann's disappearance.

The detectives believe there are inconsistencies in the accounts of what happened on the night the three-year-old vanished from her family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz last May while the group of friends ate dinner with Madeleine's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, in a nearby restaurant.

It had been believed that the detectives could spend up to two months in the UK.

However, a team led by chief investigator Paulo Rebelo is set to fly to Britain on April 7 to start interviews in Leicester the next day, and they are scheduled to return to the Algarve on April 11.

British police officers will conduct the interviews on behalf of their Portuguese counterparts, but Rebelo and his team will be allowed to sit in as they take place.

The Mail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=549731&in_page_id=1770

My take:
  • Again it appears we have a rehash of old news!
  • The questioning has been reported to be the T3 T4 T7 T9 then T3 again then T7 not T9 yet again!
  • Also it was reported just last week that the PJ would be interviewing many holiday makers and other witnesses!
  • Again another false leak coming from the infamous PJ sources
  • The Leicestershire Police have not confirmed this story, I feel they would have if they knew for definite if the PJ was coming.
  • If the PJ get here at all on April 7th don't hold your breath for Kate and Gerry to be interview, this could all change again, as apparently there is insufficient evidence to interview them, this we have from the Portuguese Judge, so can we say this it true?
  • Does the left arm know what the right arm is doing?
  • How many questions will it be 40? 14? 4? 100?
  • Can the PJ tell their A**** from their elbows?
  • It was also reported that the PJ may be here for months, well looks like they have cut their trip down to just 4 days, thus laying to rest another leak for the infamous PJ source.
  • Will the Portuguese government ever get their act together and ask the PJ what the hell they think they are playing at with all these leaks?
  • Will the Portuguese government ever hold a frank and open public inquiry into this farcical shambolic investigation?
  • What can these questions every hope to prove?
  • What exactly will they be able to accomplish 11 months after the event with memories dulling?
  • If these questions were so vitally important why haven't the PJ got their act together sufficiently before 11 months was up to ask these questions?
  • No mention of cuddle cat or Kate's diary!
  • I suspect yet another red herring!
  • If I were cynical, I maybe forgiven for thinking that the PJ deliberately leaked all this fatuous nonsense in order to put some kind of pressure onto the McCann's to see if they could crack them!
  • Does it never occur to the PJ that they have never cracked, because they are in fact innocent and have been telling the truth.
  • I am yet to be convinced that the PJ will arrive here on April 7th, I hope they do, but forgive me if I am sceptical, this has been said so many times already!
  • I don't think they will question the McCann's
  • I think they will release them fro the arguido status.
  • I think they will be forced to apologise for all the unnecessary pain and suffering they have caused this couple.
  • I think they will have to do this because it will soon emerge that the PJ had absolutely no evidence, on which to bring or even begin to prove and substantiate the bizarre allegations against this couple.
  • I think unless the McCann's get a formal public apology, they will proceed and sue the PJ and it has been proved that they can lawfully do this.
  • I think they should, do you?
  • I think they should bring legal action, if only to highlight the archaic secrecy laws of Portugal, laws that have caused much of this farce of an investigation.
  • I think they should bring this action for many reasons, what reasons do you think the McCann's should sue the PJ for?

462 comments:

1 – 200 of 462   Newer›   Newest»
calcite51 said...

I for one would support Drs. McCanns if they decide to sue the PJ's.

Why? Character assassination comes to mind, the leaks by the PJ's to the less desirable newspapers comes to mind.
It would have been so much better if the PJ's had done their jobs instead of pointing a finger at Madeleine parents.

There were so many problems with the PJ force - I've never heard of a PJ being allowed to be on an investigation when he himself is being investigated for wrong doing in another missing child's case (Joanna).

The Government of Portugal also should be taken to task - their excuse that the PJ force is not a political issue will in my not so humble opinion come back and haunt them.

kiwigirl said...

Well said Calcite. I agree that what has been leaked by the PJ has been defamatory and libellous and I also would support Kate and Gerry if they decided to take a lawsuit against them.

But maybe also the British government needs to exert some pressure on their Portugese counterparts if the McCanns aren't charged in the long run. Just an idea...I have no idea how our government would react in similar circumstances though, however, I do know that policemen/detectives that are being investigated in connection with other cases are usually put on leave...

Anyway will pop back in later one and see if there is anyone here then.

Mandz said...

Morning All,

I forgot the clocks have gone forward!!

Yes I would back them 100% with what you both have said and for the failing of a Missing Child Aged 3 Years…

I think our Government need to take action now this is way out of hand.

Rosiepops said...

Hi Calcite and Kiwigirl,

I agree with both of you, I too would support Kate and Gerry if they decided to take action against the Portuguese Policia Judiciaria.

This question came up back in the summer, I believe it was looked into to se if Kate and Gerry would be able to take action and what that action could be. I think the conclusion was that the McCann's would have a case against Portugal's judicial police. It would rest on the grounds that because the PJ had concentrated wholly on putting the McCann's in the picture for Madeleine's disappearance, they had not afforded the time to actually search for her properly, I cannot remember exactly what it is, but I know it concluded on grounds like this.
There has been reports that the PJ stopped looking for Madeleine around week 3 into this investigation, yet up until August 2007, the official line was that Madeleine was abducted and the parents were not suspects.

I and I don't think any of us are naive enough to say that the parents should not be looked at closely in cases like this, of course they should and we all know that statistics actually support this, but what the Portuguese judicial police did is do everything back to front, not only this they appear to have employed and appear to still use today the most underhand cheap tactics and it is these tactics that have actually fuelled this media circus surrounding Madeleine's disappearance and *not* Madeleine's parents.

I believe IMHO that there was never any evidence to charged these parents and the PJ know this fully well and should have called a halt to it months ago, the fact that they didn't, I believe leaves them open to legal action against their failure to properly investigate the disappearance of Madeleine and also leaves the PJ open to accusations that they actually caused the McCann's unnecessary pain and suffering by their actions and I also believe that the McCann's human rights have been blatantly abused.

All this stems from the spurious leaks coming from these apparent "PJ sources". Which on the face of it the PJ have never once tried to stop, in fact I believe a legal team could bring charges against the PJ for attempting trial by media.

It is hard to envisage a modern day police force behaving the way the PJ have appeared to behave, when Paulo Rebelo took over from disgraced detective Goncalo Amaral, I had hoped that at last a man of integrity and honesty had arrived on the scene and that the leaks would stop, but they haven't, they have continued, I don't know how the ordinary Portuguese person views this case because I do not think I have seen many of them on the net, but if I were one I know I would be pretty angry towards a police force that were bringing such dreadful pain and suffering down on people whose only crime (if one can call it that) was to think Portugal was a safe country where they could leave their precious children fast asleep just 89 steps away while they ate dinner. I know I would want pertinent questions asked of the PJ and I know I would join in any pressure to make the PJ accountable for their actions in a full and open public inquiry, anything less than this would just not be acceptable.

I would also want fully investigated the alleged report that a female journalist was given a copy of *Witness names *Witness Addresses *Witness Home Phone Numbers *Witness Mobile Numbers *Copies of Witness Statements.

This is such a serious breach of confidentiality and police procedures that if this had occurred in any other modern European country who had a police force answerable to the people for their actions, an internal enquiry would have been held immediately to flush out the person responsible for this breach and a further public inquiry would have been held to get to the facts and I believe that legal action would have followed against the person who gave out such sensitive information. I cannot believe that such a serious break down of law occurred and no one did anything about it.

The journalist should have been brought in for official questioning and if she would not reveal her source then she should have been charged and taken to court, put under oath and made to tell the truth and give an appropriate prison sentence for perverting the course of justice.

The person who actually gave such information away should have had the harshest charges possible brought against them and investigations should have been made to ascertain if any money had changed hands for this information and if it had who wrote the cheque and how much was paid for it.

In this alone I believe the McCann's have a suitable case for action against the PJ and if they continue to do nothing they will also have a case against the Portuguese government.

In view of the seriousness of leaks against this couple and the serious breaches of security for those giving evidence, I think the McCann's should bring action, I think it is their duty to do so, because unless they do, the powers that be in Portugal will think they can get away with such behaviour and if God forbid this happen to anyone else, then nothing will have changed and we will see the whole sorry debacle and shambolic farce of an investigation repeat itself, with yet more casualties.

Not least one innocent little child who remains missing 11 months on and still no one has a clue what happened to her or where she is.

What chance did she ever have with a police force that takes 11 months to re question witnesses?

It is not up to the McCann's or any other witnesses in this case to run around presenting themselves in Portugal to answer questions for the PJ. It is the PJ that are supposed to be running this case, it is up to them to get a grip and sort his sorry mess out.

melbel said...

Well said,calcite, Kiwigirl and Mandz.
What has happened here, goes well beyond an occasional remark[though not allowed by most civilised countries.]
It has been systematic, daily drips of information, designed to discredit this couple and to pressure them.No decent person, whatever their view, could say that this is acceptable or appropriate.
It has also,according to the Times journalist,come from a high level in PJ.
Unable on this occasion to beat the suspects up, or possibly kick them down the stairs, they try verbal bullying and pressure.
They should be sued, for these leaks and an enquiry held in Portugal, re violation of their secrecy laws.
The Government should pressurise the Portugese to end this circus now.The EEC should look into this, as should the appropriate European Courts and sanctions applied.
Many will boycott that country for holidays.
It leaves a bad taste in the mouth, hearing how the suffering of this family,has been compounded by this violation of basic human rights.
Yes, it was not wise to leave the children, in light of what happened,but these people were not "on the lash ", as some ill informed people say.
The children had been fed and the grown ups were eating and it has been proven to be a pack of lies, re the exaggerated amounts they drank.
As well as character assassination, if proved that the PJ have ignored leads, then this is definite negligence, as they dug on, trying to make the evidence fit their theory.
Who has come out of this with dignity and strength ?Not the PJ.
Read the forums and they are ridiculed internationally.
It is worse than ridicule.
I am a grandmother, in my sixties, not paid by any Media monitoring movement, fools who think this, and I am hopping mad.
This is why I bang away on my failing keyboard, here, day after day.
It may not do any good, but I believe that the PJ and others, may monitor opinion, so twitchey, are they re presentation, image and national pride.
Well, I am telling you,that I am one of many and we will not go away.
I have written to the highest in the land and can tell you, that they are supportive to the McCanns.
I intend to write no further about this.
So the PJ are coming from April 7th to 11th,are they now and not the two months !
A tying up of ends, most likely.
There cannot be much to talk about in the way of evidence, can there ?
They will find British people, on the whole, slow to anger, but you should never under estimate us, once the penny has finally dropped with everyone.
You will find the majority are against the unprofessional way you have carried on and the cruelty towards these people, whose child has been abducted.
Not much time for blogs today, but I would also like to highlight the mean spirited piece that Vile ran on the other site, re some of the backers, not wanting to pay the legal costs.
This is quite understandable,as the idea was to help find Madeleine and it is possible to go to court on a no win, no fee basis.
It does not mean that there has been a reduction of support from these people and what sort of a person,sits giving pseudo law lectures,crowing and gloating, because they hope that this means less money, for the fund to search for Madeleine?
You cannot be 100% sure of your beliefs, because the PJ, sure as hell,are not sure,or the Judge would have given wider powers to question.
Why have these poor people been reduced to paying for private detectives ?They were not taken seriously from day one and disbelieved, on flawed evidence,from an early stage, by the Keystones.
You are no advocate, Felicity and your judgement, is poor, to say the least.
tage.

Dobywallah said...

Morning all, yes, Igree but don't think it would get far and its very unlikely and its even more unlikely the UK government will get themselves in a diplomatic dispute with Portugal.Its a pitty but there it is! Notice Alsa saltza's blog is still missing! I've been wondering about that and you don't suppose she's been advised to abandon the Blog as being the Blog or Forum organizer she must be responsible for all the vile and libelous posts being made in her name? Panic stations set in maybe, how would she get out of that one if legal proceedings were instigated against her? Just a thought?

Rosiepops said...

Further, I also believe that the British government should now be applying strong pressure on the Portuguese government to act and get to the bottom of this disgraceful set of very public failures, breaches of confidentiality and breaches of witness security.

What is the EU doing about this? The EU are so fond of stepping in and passing daft laws about stupid things, where are their teeth in this serious set of blunders?

What is the EU doing allowing this to continue?

How did it happen that two detectives were put in charge of an investigation for a missing child, while they were heavily implicated in extremely serious charges of the alleged torture into a confession of the mother of another missing child? The child Joana Cipriano went missing just 7 miles away from where Madeleine disappeared and has never been found.

Surely in any other modern law abiding country these detectives would have been suspended from *ALL* duties pending the outcome of charges brought against them? To allow them back at the head of an investigation into another disappearance of a missing child is absolutely staggering and it is unbelievable.

Questions must be asked of Portugal's judicial police and they must also be asked of the political system that allowed such a serious situation to develop.

melbel said...

Morning Rosie
That was an excellent post and you said, better than I could, what I believe, too,about this case.
If the DE and others, are really serious about being sorry for adding to the McCann's distress, they could try highlighting some of the rubbish that has gone on.
The article from the Times group, yesterday, said it all,really,but would not be read,by the antis,as they, too, are trying to "do a PJ",by only reading the things, that they wrongly believe fit their arguments.

Dobywallah said...

Yes Rosie, once again I agree with you on that issue. The PJ should not have allowed officers alegedly suspected of criminal acts against the mother of another missing child and certainly in that case the Portuguese should have stepped in a long time ago. This whole investigation into Madeleines disappearance has been an absolute disgrace and they should draw the matter to an abrupt end "NOW" and declare Kate and Gerry innocent victims of a 'IMO'corrupt and pathetically useless police force!

Rosiepops said...

Morning melbel

Like you I am extremely angry over the treatment and blatant abuse of the basic human rights of this couple, you too raise serious and pertinent points.

I would like to get together a set of questions that we would like our government to ask of Portugal and their police force and judicial system.

I actually think that no matter what you actually believe happened or did not happen in this case it is now secondary to the apparently appalling blunders that have led to this sorry mess today. I believe it is time people were galvanised into action.

I am compiling a list of questions to ask my MP to ask in Parliament, I also think a copy of these questions should go directly to Gordon Brown and to the Portuguese President Anibal Antonio CAVACO SILVA and Prime Minister Jose SOCRATES.

Questions MUST be asked. I have already started my own boycott of Portuguese goods, I understand that there is a growing call for this to happen and that in the States it is already happening.

The quickest way to get governments to listen is to start hitting them in the wallet.

Time to act I think.

So if anyone has a question they want to ask, please let me have them, both on here and by email, thanks everyone.

melbel said...

Hi Doby
I just feel that the ordinary people of Europe, will feel that it is pointless, if we do not have minimal standards and these fall, far short.
I think Portugal, would resolve this, at an early level, just my view, if diplomatic pressure is applied.
Re Alsabella,I suspect that it is fear of being sued.
I read Clawdia,on TWS,urging her to keep records of posts, threatening legal action.You cannot accuse someone of stalking you ,surely, who is pointing out, that you are skating close to the line, in terms of being sued.
I have read some pretty authentic posts, on there, from anons, which would scare me to death, if in charge of a blog.
They write many libelous things.

Rosiepops said...

Doby I agree with you, IMO I too think there is a level of corruption here. what else are we supposed to think when such sensitive witness information has found its way into the hands of a two bit journalist?

have the Portuguese not heard of witness confidentiality and protection?

How do we know that the normal Portuguese person does not have information in this investigation but may be so scared of witness intimidation and having their name and details leaked all over the world's press that they have failed to come forward?

How deep is this problem in Portugal?

We already have one person named Tuck Price who gave false witness for his friend Robert Murat because he was sacred that Robert Murat would be framed for this abduction.

Why would a witness automatically believe this?

Why would Murat's mother go to the extent of setting up a roadside stall for people who were scared of going to the PJ, to come and give her their information?

Why has all this been glossed over and hidden?

Exactly what is laying beneath the surface of Portugal's law and order system?

Let's start asking the questions.

Mandz said...

Melbel and Rosie Excellent Posts – wholeheartedly agree with.

Melbel great idea about the DE publishing the ludicrous PJ leaks against the McCann’s!

Our Government need to step in now and demand some answers from them. What has gone on is unforgivable and unprofessional therefore I want our Government to STOP this NOW. I want our Government to find out what happened to Maddie McCann aged 3 years when taken from her bed. I want them to find out why they have done this to this heartbroken couple. WHY WHY WHY????


Tourist industry Shove It……….

melbel said...

Good idea,Rosie,re the questions and the need for action.
We are all individuals on here, who are passionate about justice being done, in this case and I would join any petition, group activity or action group to expedite this.
If it is so damn obvious about what has gone on here and it is definitely screaming out injustice and corruption, I think that our politicians will be working behind the scenes, now,unknown to us.
They may be constrained now, but they stand to lose a hell of a lot more than a bit of ill will, from Portugal, if they ignore our people.
I would join any march or protest.

Dobywallah said...

MELBEL:
Dead right Melbel, I am sure if the UK government were to put Diplmatic pressure on Portugal they would act, but as I said it is unlikely the two countries would want to be drawn into this long drawn out and disgraceful Saga. However, things do go on behind the scenes that we mere mortals are not aware of, so who knows? As for Alsabella, her sudden disappearance speaks volumes in my opinion! If as the Blog organiser she was actually sued for organizing and 'giving support' to some of the most evil posts immaginable she could end up coughing up millions, especially if the case was taken through the US courts where they don't play around in pennies!

Rosiepops said...

Melbel

I have read the same as you from some of the Anons. It seems people were trying their best to warn her and despite my obvious dislike for her, I too tried to warn her, but all I got for my efforts was abuse and my posts deleted.

Alsabella apparently knows best and Alsabella knows more than anyone else and Alsabella is always right - Hail Arsebella...Hail Arsebella..Hail Arsebella.

The fact that Claudia has deemed fit to discuss this on an open internet blog strikes me as suspicious, why would she do this? Obviously these people are in touch by email, why did they not communicate in private? Why would they tip off someone they were trying to gather information on, that they were in fact gathering information on them? Doesn't make much sense to me.

This seems like a big face saving exercise to me. I think the closure of her blog falls into roughly 3 categories.

1) Domestic problems have occurred that need her urgent attention.

2) Worried she has sought correct and proper legal advice over the libellous nature of some of the comments on her blog and they have advised her to take positive and rapid action.

3) She may have been issued with a libel writ.

Not sure what I think, I am just glad that she is no longer allowing the gross peddling of filth and defamation of character of two people that have not even been charged with any crime.

Long may it continue.

If I was Viv, I would heed this and clean up my own act, but I see she is still allowing and taking part instating as true spurious speculative comments!

Some people never learn. What strikes me as astonishing in this case is that Felicity claims to have some legal knowledge, well all I can say is that looking at the filth she allows on her blog, that legal knowledge does *NOT* extend to the law of libel!

melbel said...

Hi Mandz
I honestly think that this is the end game and I cannot see this visit, if it happens,being anything other, than signing off the files and the arguido status, being lifted.
It has gone way too far and I feel that Portugal deserves to be in the international courts about this.
I had no idea re this Tuck character, lying for Murat.
As Rosie said, how weird is that for Murat's mother, to set a stall up,because there would be people, not wanting to go to the Police.
It is a disgrace and I could weep for them, on a daily basis.

Mandz said...

Who was she gathering information on?

She was reported to google therefore maybe they looked into this site & advised to close down?

Rosiepops said...

Hi Mandz

all this is boiling down to is money.

All £2.8 billion of it, most of that provided by the British tourist to Portugal's coffers!

Let's start making them take notice of us. let's start hitting them where it hurts.

The gloves are coming off Portugal, you have been warned.

Portugal's tourist industry - shove it!

melbel said...

Rosie,I always imagined her, as a team of people, with a co ordinator.
Not much attention,being given to the kids,if the husband away, flying !
There were also some Portugese DE posters, who I thought were PJ, or wives, thereof, like the spiteful Lightview and I believe it was Curious, whose husband was a pj.
Thankfully,I doubt that many people come to the internet, to read about the case,but they are not people I would ever want to ally myself with.
If banging the drum for Portugal, they repelled,not what they hoped to do.
I had great hopes for the replacement chief investigator,but what pressures is that man under ?
What is going on over there ?

Mandz said...

Melbel,

I've heard they are coming but I just don't buy it - I hope it will happen but I doubt they will come here.

Everyday I think of them all and it just makes me soo angry and sad..

Rosiepops said...

Doby

I agree about the diplomatic pressure and it is unlikely that the two countries would want to be seen to be drawn into such a convoluted process, especially as one of them (Portugal) depends so heavily on the revenue created from foreign tourists.

But I believe we can take their obvious reluctance and actually use it against them, it could prove to be a very useful tool, to make them act.

I also believe that it would take relatively few people to pull out of taking their holidays in Portugal, to start really making a difference, especially in an economic downturn, which is happening globally at the moment.

If people changed their holiday destinations this coupled with people actually not going to Portugal because of financial constraints this year, I believe we could actually make the Portuguese government sit up, listen and take notice!


I wonder when their general election is? hitting at a time like this would not bode well for the incumbent party!

melbel said...

I think Clawdia is bluffing, in "laying all her cards on the table."
She is quite unbalanced, not very mature and a junior partner to the others.
She is spiteful and vicious, like a little playground bully.

Mandz said...

Rosie,

2.8 billion...shove it...No more.

As for Alsa funny how she turn up on the DX then all her little pals turn up???

melbel said...

I am a mild person, but I only have to see an advert for holidays in Portugal, for me to feel like snarling.
I hate for this to happen, but I think of the people booing Kate,as she went for questioning and the surveys, saying that the majority of Portugese,thought them guilty.
This has been corrected, to some extent over here, once we wised up that the forensic evidence, did not show what they said it did and this has been admitted.
There must be intelligent people over there,who are more aware, not just about this case.

Mandz said...

Absolutely Melbel!

melbel said...

Let us face it, Portugal is a lovely place,but not unique, for sun and scenery.
I know of several people, who will not holiday there, again.
It is not the sort of carry on, that you expect, in a friendly European country.
Many of them need tourism.

Rosiepops said...

Melbel

I thought this too. I have come to a conclusion about Alsabella;

1) She is a fraud, has no children and just sits around on the internet day in and day out and this is why she is able to spend so much time on it and *NOT* on her husband and children.

Or

2) She is a plant of some kind, has no children and does this for a living.

This would go some way to explaining why it is she can apparently ignore the needs of her family, (especially her children) and devote so much time to her pursuits on the internet, almost 24/7.

Whatever this is, there is a reason behind this and all is not as it seems with her.

It could also be that she has pulled her blog because her PJ sources have told her that her services are no longer required because;

a) the McCanns have been found to be telling the truth

b) The PJ are not coming to the UK

c) their arguido status is about to be lifted

d) a full and frank open apology is about to be issued publicly to the McCann's, in the hope that they will not proceed with legal action against Portugal and their police.

If this were the case you would not see Alsabliar for dust, she would be off, such is her misplaced pride and her horror of ever being proved wrong!

Dobywallah said...

ROSIE, MELBEL, MANDZ, KIWIGIRL.
Think this may be one of my last posts for the time being as today I'm going to have to do some packing etc, and tomorrow will be dashing around last minute shopping etc, as we go on holiday Tuesday morning. They do have a place in Florida, part of their University complex where on our last visit they allowed me to use one of their computers. so maybe, just maybe, I may give you all a surprise Email or whatever from Uncle Sam! Before I go however, I'm wondering if anyone has thought of writing their MP's in protest about the way the McCanns are being treated, they are after all British Citizens and in the old days of the British Empire (Victorian times) no other country would have dared to treat British subjects in such a disgusting manner. Those were the days, as a once proud nation we don't have the same power and influence as in days gone by! In some ways we are becoming a laughing stock with all the illegal immigration, violence, and binge drinking layabouts!

archer said...

Hi everyone, excellent posts and quite provocative too. I appreciated reading them.

Rosie - re your 11.36hrs post.In particular one part leaped out of the screen at me. That was the paragraph that said......'who had a police force answerable to the people for their actions.'
To me that is the crux of the matter. The 'PJ' are held in high regard by their people for their intelligence,dedication to duty and high rate of crime detections!!! (So we are told by the 'other side')

This dreadful sorry state of affairs has led to the publication of things that they would rather not have had aired. Probably for the first time the Portuguese peope are learning just what kind of elitist officers they have in charge- a far cry from what they would have them believe. I am sure they are shocked too. We know for a certainty what happens here if allegations are made against officers, we also know that here we have a voice that can and will be heard. Our laws dictate such.

With regard to possible re-interviewing of the 'Tapas' group. I for one would be asking to see my original statement made at the time before I opened my mouth, I hope their legal representatives will be on hand to request this. What do the 'PJ' hope to achieve nearly a year on ? If their is a disparity in what is said this will be pounced on and used to try to discredit their whole story ..... far too little and far too late. IMO

Should Kate and Gerry be in need of further financial assistance for their fund, I for one would be more than happy to donate.

Justice for Madeleine and all the family.

Mandz said...

Well I will in no way be booking a flight there ever. I have been and yes it is beautiful however there are other places in Europe just a nice.

Mandz said...

Doby,

Have a good one lucky you!!!

I have written however heard nothing? What else can we do?

helenm said...

Hi all,

Sorry just a quick visit this afternoon, hope to join you all later. However couldn't enjoy my afternoon without filling you in of PDL. Just got back from my reccy (?spelling) and I am sorry but I mislead you all yesterday. The road that runs across the top of the OC apartments (where JT alleges shaw saw a man carrying a child) is not a cul-de-sac as I first thought. This road does lead to Murat's villa but the road then bends sharply to the left and guides you out to another exit road. There are also numerous OC apartments to the left and right of this road. Just wanted to put the record straight.

Melbel I agree that if the PJ are coming only for 3 days, it will be simply to put the records straight before the PJ present ther final report to the Prosecutor's office. Is it around the 16th April that the extension runs out? I do believe though that an arguido status runs for 12 months from the time being made one.

Rosiepops said...

Mel and Mandz,

Correct, Portugal is nice and has nice weather and one of the the major attractions to Portugal was?

It was a safe family environment and this case has brought up so much that people will no longer view Portugal as a safe environment for a family.

Even if I did not have strong feelings about this case one way or the other, if I were booking a holiday for my family, I would be giving serious thought to the situation in Portugal and I am afraid I would not want to risk it.

Who would want to go on a well earned family holiday and feel terrified all the time that one of your children may be abducted and then you yourself would get blamed for their disappearance?

Thanks but no thanks, I would start looking elsewhere and in fact I know several families that are doing just that!

Two of these families have always holidayed on the Algarve, even before their children were born, but not this year, this year they are looking at France and Italy and Croatia and Croatia is an excellent place for a family holiday, beautiful weather, beautiful beaches and beautiful scenery, I can wholeheartedly recommend it. Clean and refreshing and the scenery is breathtaking, much better than Portugal's scenery.

Rosiepops said...

Hi Helen

How is your ginger nuts?

Mandz said...

Archer,

Excellent post!
I would be happy to donate again and again. I honestly feel that if she is not found then what hope does that give to other parents due to the World Wide media coverage? She must be found she must give hope to other children and families. If she is not then disaster these MONSTERS will continue to prey on our children.

melbel said...

Doby
Agree about the politicians.My mp is supportive of the McCanns and has seen through this media witch hunt.
I also wrote to Home and Foreign Secretary, Portugese President[had no reply from the latter,] but though our Ministers,are constrained in what they can say, while the couple are arguidos,and you get advice that you are not entitled to information,under data protection legislation, I believe that they are working behind the scenes.
In the light of the DE apology, I intend to write again.
Have a wonderful trip, Doby and you take care.get that packing done.x
Wow, that was a long sentence!
my English teacher used to tell me to "curb my verbosity ".
One of my son's teachers, at sixth form college, told him "to organise, energise or fail" !

Mandz said...

Right all,

Just going off out now!

Have a good day....

Rosiepops said...

Doby

am just about to go take the little dog out for her second walk, she is staring at me (I am sure that dog can tell the time!)

If you are not around and do not manage to get back on before you go. (I hope you are not going from terminal 5 lol!)

Have a wonderful holiday all of you and half your luck! I wish I was going with you, could do with some sunshine, still today it is bright and sunny and we are officially into British summer time (get me brolly then)

See you when you get back, take care, keep those kiddies close and have a wonderful, wonderful time. xxx

Rosiepops said...

Mandz

Have a great day and hope to see you pop in later and remember.

"Tourist industry - shove it!"

melbel said...

Rosie
I think you are spot on in your assessment about what is going on on the alternative blogs.
Alsie was very concerned about the legal side, as she went straight over to ask the lawyer [ not, nor Probation Officer, would not get through the selection process and would be quickly given the bum's rush, if crept in ]
Many posters cannot comprehend that we are not paid and are just concerned individuals, not family.
We are the people and I believe that they will have to listen.

Rosiepops said...

Archer excellent post and I am willing to donate again too.

Kate and Gerry in the misguided belief that you may happen across our humble blog, take heart from the fact that we believe in you and are right along side you and also behind you and no matter which way you may stumble, we will be here to support you and keep you on your feet until Madeleine is back home with you where she belongs.

We believe in you and we believe in true justice for Madeleine, justice that sees the police doing their lawful job, searching for her and finding her and returning her to her loving family.

"True Justice For Madeleine"

archer said...

Doby

Happy holidays!

Lucky you being able to go at this time of the year.

We have been a couple of times,but had to go in the school holidays and it was HOT HOT HOT.

Have a fab time.

melbel said...

I am off too, as a daughter has arrived and I need to be sociable.
Will catch up, as soon as I can.
Have a lovely day, everyone.
Sunny and windy, here.
I love all different types of weather, even horizontal rain.
So long x x x

archer said...

Rosie- you are making me very tearful. You lovely lovely person.

It takes me ages to say what I want to say and it doesn't always come out as heartfelt as yours,but believe me my sentiments are the same. xx

Rosiepops said...

Melbel

You are correct. Many people cannot believe we are not paid for our efforts.

This alone should tell them something very very important.

We are a group of ordinary people, Mum's grandmothers, fathers, aunts, sisters, brothers of all ages and all family denominations, all different and unique and most of us would never have dreamed that we would find ourselves returning day after day to aplace like this to network with others and so keep Madeleine's plight up there and her parents fight for their daughter visible.

In so far as we are just ordinary people not given to making or taking part in this kind of thing, then the Portuguese government shuld feel very worried indeed.

it takes a real injustice for ordinary people to take up arms and fight and this is the beginning of what is going to happen here, the great British pubic is beginning to wake up to a terrible injustice and aided and abetted by our brilliant friends from other countries, we ARE going to start to do something about this.

We will unite with like minded people everywhere in the world, we will highlight the total injustice of this case if the PJ and the Portuguese government do not begin to put right *their* wrongs.

Rosiepops said...

archer,

this is just it, I believe that each and everyone of the regular posters on this forum who give up their time on a daily basis are all lovely, kind and caring people and I believe because kindness and compassion are the one thing that binds us, that we can and will make a difference.

I am off ut for a wlak with my little dog and my thoughts now and when I come back we will start the process of gettting true justice for Madeleine and her family and who knows other children in Portugal and elsewhere may benefit as a result.

I am a believer in things happening for a reason, so lets find it and do something about it.

See you soon xxx

And through his little beginning we will grow and we can and will make a difference, we can actually do something about this.

Lets do it.

archer said...

Rosie

Indeed!

Catch you later.

melbel said...

Excellent posts, Archer and Rosie and spoken, with sincerity, from the heart.
We are the tip of the iceberg and it is the opinion of ordinary folk,which count in the end.
No cynicism over here about how people,in trauma, should look or behave and no wild, unfounded accusations or allegations on this blog.
I endorse what you say to the family, from the bottom of my heart.
Even though the Portugese have admitted that the forensic evidence, does not say what they wanted it to say,there is no let up , or pause for reflection, over yonder[TWS]

Who told these fools that the couple would not answer questions ?
Did they not, for one minute, think that there are alternative explanations, for this,like a small matter of being innocent ?
The questions and the dreaded forensic word, we always come back to that.
There was an idiot,Euro something or other,on TWS, criticising Jeffers [?], for saying he would appear,as a witness, in court, for the Mccanns.
Did this poster not realise that he was talking about the inventor of this kind of profiling, who could see that it was being used wrongly and misinterpreted?

Helen,hiya
Hope they do not extend to September.
You would think, that they would need substantial evidence or leads, for that.
I will be mard and scriking[Lancashire speak], if that is the case.
It will not b...dy ding dang do.

JANEGT said...

hello everyone

read back all your posts, again forgot to tick box for email follow ups......

Yes, some excellent points again. I feel the EEC now MUST imperatively look into those stupid secrecy laws, get an EEC wide amber alert in force, and look into how this case was or was not handled from day one. The fact that some PJ's already embroiled in dispute re Cipriano case is totally out of order. They should not have been allowed anywhere near a child enquiry of any sort, if any enquiry at all......

The author of that shameful book who is ex police also was involved in Cipriano case. Disgraceful. They are now seen to be corrupt. Elite? so what. Corrupt - not on, not one bit. They leaked things they had no right to to the Portuguese press, who kidded our journalists on, resulting in DE GROUP PAPERS paying out £550,000 and front page apologies..... Portuguese Police corruption indirectly started this law suit payment going. They should hang their heads in shame. Why we should be asking did Jennifer Murat HAVE TO set up stall because of fear in the community to speak to PJ?? That speaks volumes in itself.

No. They are corrupt, they use outmoded practices, they break their own rules, they MUST be brought in line officially by EEC committees.

I know of 3 families who have cancelled their holidays to Portugal Algarve this summer. I am not going there again, it is beautiful, but as you say, there are lots of other beautiful places. Safe places for children!!!! With honest police.

I also have joined Rosie's boycott of Portuguese goods as only in this way will they as a country start taking this farce seriously. Every act has a consequence. They have to be taught that in their pockets. They need us more than we need them. Their tourist industry is THE MAIN one for the country's economy. Hit that, and you hist its core.

As for A's site, she was warned time and time again, particularly lately when someone said they were reporting her to google for libel, etc. I feel this is what happened here. why? She was on her blog at the time it shut down. That's mainly why. Cleaning up exercise is far too little, far far too late. Viv will not learn from this, she is on a high with the sudden growth of her blog. They are refugees only and will go back to whatever A is planning for future. A will not go quietly. Pity she did not heed the many who advised her she was wrong in leaving abusive posts, and not allowing anyone right of reply to them. She used her delete button like a hand grenade. Well, imho it just blew up in her face. All 2 of them.

supertroll said...

Afternoon everyone,

Hope you are all well. I have been having a chuckle at Claudia's posts.

What is wrong with the woman. Speaking for Alsabella...Why can't Alsabella post something herself?

And all this public asking any abusive posts.

This behaviour is really pathetic.

ST

melbel said...

HiJane and Super
On and off the computer,but I agree with your posts.
The schoolgirl,Claudia is asking Vile for lists of posts, among other things, those hostile to the PJ.
Well, read other webs and forums and she will need a very large notebook.
They must not assume that the rest of the world, is deferential and uncritical, of their precious PJ.
The PJ, have,in my view,been totally responsible, for the worldwide ridicule and contempt,hey now hold.
Too much loose talk, insufficient action and inability to interpret delicate and innovative forensic research, even when the inventor of it, has offered to be a witness, in Court, for the Mccanns, becauso of wrong and misleading interpretation of his own research.
You could not make it up.
The fool, 2345678, is over there, pontificating about cadavers.They should club together and buy her a dictionary.
She also,uses Kate's diary, written after the alleged event, to beat Kate with,thinking it proves that Kate could not cope and that Madeleine
was a handful.
These people know nothing, absolutely nothing, about children. I rest my case.
Jane, I never ticked that box about e mails. Is that how I get on the group e mail list, or do I tell Sass ?
My computer keeps forgetting who I am[makes a difference from me forgetting !Joke,o humourless ones, looking in!]
I have to sign in all the time,which is a tad annoying,when I have written a spiel and it cannot be sent! x

JANEGT said...

MELBEL

Once you have a google account you do not require to sign in each time. Look after you come to our blog, at the top right you will see ''SIGN IN''. Just Click that, then at top left, you will see back arrow pointing to the left, click that, and your details go in automatically and you are at our page one of blog. Then after story of the day, click on post comments, and there you are.

If you tick the ''email responses'' box, it just means all posts made will come to your email inbox to read when you next come on, or overnight.

Private emails have nothing to do with this, you would need to contact a moderator about that.

supertroll said...

Hi Melbel,

I had to laugh about Claw asking for posts abusive to the PJ.

I would expect that if the PJ had a problem with some of the posts they would have dealt with this already and WITHOUT the need to send Clawds asking around for posts.

The mind boggles. 2345 is as bad as always. I think she just talks to herself.

Judging the fact that so many Alsa posters have migrated to Viv's trainwreck of a blog, I have come to the conclusion that many people are completely hooked on sick ghoulish stories and cannot help themselves, even when their queen may be in trouble.

Maybe Clawds is asking for those posts to use as their defence when it all goes to court...

ST

JANEGT said...

SUPERTROLL

good afternoon

how are you?

Yes, pathetic and feeble - you are right. It was so obvious this could happen and she was warned I see by more than a few on the abusive comments she left up. Crocodile tears too late methinks.

;o)))

MELBEL

AREN'T YOU A GRANDMOTHER AGAIN YET??? Just had my tyre fixed by garage who came out to my door so feel slightly happier but was told I need my wheel looked at. Oh dear!!!;o((((

melbel said...

Thanks for that,Jane
I have a long way to go, with computer skills,but will try that.x

Christabel said...

Afternoon ladies,

just a quick look in till later.
Oh no Melbel " who let the dogs out " a song for you bit early I know lol.
Keep the tune in your head.

Supertroll,
hope you are well, looked in at your site, I loved the docnot dream ROTFLMAO.

supertroll said...

Oh, I forgot.

Is someone trying to control who her posters talk to?

Viv said...
Hiya Hope

I notice you have been having a few chats with Supertroll.

Viv x

JANEGT said...

afternoon CHRISTABEL

how's you today???

I meant to ask you, that artist who made that beautiful collage of Madeleine from used postage stamps, did it go on public show as he planned? It was an amazing work ofart. Truly beautiful.

Kept meaning to ask you, but kept getting tied up in posting against 'intruders' ha ha ha

SUPERTROLL

your blog seems to have a resident psychiatrist posting....to whom????

Your dreams and visions section is a hooooot.

;o)))

JANEGT said...

SUPERTROLL

THE ONLY WAY SHE WOULD KNOW HOPE HAD POSTED WAS TO BE ON YOUR SITE HERSELF.

HA HA HA HA
;O))))

melbel said...

Still waiting, Jane.
Hope you are assertive, to deal with male workmen and garage people !
I reckon they try to rip women off,sometimes !
Super, you could not make it up.
Do you think anyone reads Vile's legal thoughts of the day ?
It is wearing my computer out, having to scroll past all that fodder !
They have a heartrending article, today,mainly written,from Kate's perspective, but you would need a heart to empathise and understand,which is lacking over there.

supertroll said...

Christabel, Jane,

I received those dreams last night by an anonymous poster. I was laughing so much I was in tears.

They are so good that they deserve their own post. I particularly laughed with the Alsa and Clawdia dreams.

I have a new poll on my blog. I am trying to solve the mystery of Alsa's blog demise. So if you have any ideas, please vote. Thank you.

ST

melbel said...

Ha Ha Christabel
Hiya and hope you are well.
They only let me on, in the afternoons, until the main staff turn up. !

Bianca said...

Hello Rosiepops and the rest of the posters.

Hope you are well.

Rosiepops, you say:

"I know I would join in any pressure to make the PJ accountable for their actions in a full and open public inquiry, anything less than this would just not be acceptable."

Rosiepops, here you ask for a "full and open public inquiry", and yet, one of the main things you complain about with the PJ is their apparent "leaks" into the public arena. It seems a contradiction to at once, want everything brought out into the "open" and the "public", but at the same time, be disturbed by the public being kept abreast of police proceedings.

Now, I know you may argue at this point that the reason you are dismayed by the PJ's "leaks" is because they, and the media frenzy they initiate, may potentially influence a jury if ever the McCanns are taken to trial. But to this, I would say "if the McCanns have absolutely nothing to hide, why would it bother them what was leaked to the public?" The PJ can keep the public abreast of their latest moves and still not, potentially, influence a jury. I think what the McCanns may REALLY fear is the ACTUAL FACTS of the case influencing a jury, i.e., the fact that they were in the habit of leaving their children unattended; the fact that there are contradictions in the stories of the Tapas Nine; the fact that the McCanns have never taken a lie-detector test; and the fact that the McCanns have refused to submit to rigorous police questioning (even NOW, as according to the Daily Mail, the McCanns will not be questioned when the PJ arrive on April 11). If the PJ tell the world of their suspicions, what do the McCanns care, if they know that those suspicions are unfounded? It seems to me that the only reason you would fear "leaks" would be if you had something to hide.

Ironically, the "pro's" complain about the PJ's privacy laws. But then they complain about the leaks and updates as to what the PJ are doing? You can't have it both ways.

Rosiepops said...

Hi All

I am back and have been thinking (you wondered what that noise was)

For all of you that do not have my email address and have something that you would like to contribute to the letter I am compiling to go to the British and Portuguese governments, please email me here:

atticusfinch80@hotmail.co.uk

This is open to you no matter where you live in the world, the more pertinent questions we can ask the better.

I have also thought about contacting other blogs that support the McCann's there must be loads out there so if anyone has an address for them please send it to me, I feel this is something we can all do together.

I would put it into a petition, but to be honest I do not know if this would meet the criteria of a petition and besides that, I think that names on a list count for very little, but many letters stating the same thing arriving on the PM's desk in both countries from around the world will maybe make someone take some notice. I have other ideas too which I will nit put on here, but one in particular may kick this action off big time.
I know from speaking to my friends and family that they feel as disgusted as we do at the treatment of this family. I will if necessary print these letters off put them in addressed envelopes and give them to people to sign, I think contacting our MP's the British and Portuguese governments, the PJ, the Leicestershire police, may make people aware that there is this depth of feeling out here.
I think the PJ may just be more than a little surprised.

Time to make people take notice.

For a start I want a full statement from the PJ outlining exactly what they have done, when they did it, when they stopped looking for Madeleine. what they have done with all the information and leads that have come into them. How these leaks occurred and what was done to stop them. the Portuguese journo that ended up with highly sensitive information should be interrogated, there is so much.

So lets start getting it all down on paper, sort it into order.

send any info you may have to the above addy and let's start making some sense of all of this.

JANEGT said...

ROSIEPOPS

thank you for trusting us with your email address.

I know just shortly before the De Group was sued, all petitions in support of Madeleine 'disappeared'. Not to be seen again......

So I agree a petition would not work in this case now.

I support you in your plans. Count me in.

Christabel said...

Hi Jane,
sorry had to log on again for some reason.
Yes he has put it on display, I will try and find the link to where it is and send it to you later.
He did all this free, not as some said (rat I think) he was in it for the money.

Christabel said...

Rosie,
with you all the way on that.
Will have a nosey round for info for you.
I have about 6 sites in mind at the mo, so lets go for it BIG TIME girls ignore the scavengers and sh** stirrers, let em stay where they are, makes it even better.
Lets show we can do something and leave the crowers to crow.

Rosiepops said...

Bianca,

this is not about blaming the McCann's and making them pay for imagined crimes.

This is about making a police force accountable to the people.

The leaks you are talking abut are not informative, they are spurious and they are untrue and they have been leaked to do specific damaged to the characters of two people who have been gagged by a secrecy order.

I want a full open public inquiry, I want to read a full unambiguous *OFFICIAL* statement from the PJ.

I do not want to pick up some scurrilous newspaper and be force fed some corrupt journo's slant based on some spurious leak they got from 'someone' in the PJ.

This has gone far enough and it is time that Portugal put there hand up and admitted their mistakes and then did something about them.

If Portugal embraces being in the EU then they have to start acting like a modern country accountable to their people and they have to have laws that are acceptable to the rest of Europe, if they cannot or will not do this, then perhaps being a European member should be withdrawn from them.

I know there are many Portuguese people that probably feel the same as we do on here and I hope they join us to exert pressure on their government.

I am hoping the bitter and twisted evil minded Portuguese people that I have had the misfortune to come across on here are not typical of that nation.
I have to believe that the narrow minded spiteful jingoistic Portuguese people on here are not indicative of that nation, there must be better than those I have come across, there has to be.

melbel said...

Rosie,Jane
Count me in too.Just nipped on Super's blog and had a good laugh.
I was never on the 3arguidos, but read the comments from BTR, re having put her or his life, on hold,to run that blog.
More fool her or him and what an utter waste of energy, to devote your life, to a hate blog.So sad, so very sad.
Rosie,please could you add my details to your group or personal e mail list.
The time for talk and debate, is long over and action needed.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hi All,

I'm just popping in, will be back a little later.

Brilliant posts today.

You can rely on me Rosie. Its about time us Pro's got PRO-active.

It reminds me of the boots advert "here come the girls" you bet!

JANEGT said...

ROSIEPOPS

Those leaks were not 'accidental' -they were deliberate no doubts. To cause maximum harm and diversion from a corrupt in parts police force = current and past. and How Many more arguiodos will be find unearthed within the pj and ex pj coming out re Cipriano and other child cases? How many more 'fictional' harmful stupid books? The new boss was taken in hook, line and sinker and has nowhere to go honestly......he is also there for damage limitation. They now want this sham to 'go away' but it won't. NO Way....will it simply dissipate. Far too many countries worldwide involved and a major violation of McCanns BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS.

= it stinks.

Bianca said...

Rosiepops, to quote you again:


"I do not want to pick up some scurrilous newspaper and be force fed some corrupt journo's slant based on some spurious leak they got from 'someone' in the PJ."

In this case, shouldn't the focus be on suing the newspapers or the journalists (DE style?). If it is the "corrupt journo's slant", then how can the PJ themselves be responsible for this?

You say: "some spurious leak they got from 'someone' in the PJ."

Yes .. "someone" in the PJ, quite possibly, someone that isn't even WORKING on the case. Again, not the fault of the investigators themselves, but possibly of someone of the chattering lower orders.

But about suing newspapers, I have never understood how the McCanns got away with suing the DE. First, they are still arguido's, and secondly, how is it fair that the DE, an ENGLISH newspaper, could be accused of potentially influencing a jury (when any trial would take place in Portugal?).

JANEGT said...

TINKERBELL

to right

PRO ZAC's we all are

pro

Z zealous fight against corruption, anywhere

A action against all covering up of evidence found or in this case NOT found and forensics wrongly claimed to be at a much higher percentage than actually

C count us all, head by head, country to country to stand up for a tortured coupld WHO AE NOT EVEN CHARGED but found builty by ignorant baying lynch mobs.

bring it on

S surely


PRO ZAC's

Rosiepops said...

Bianca, the reason why you and the rest of the people you associate with are in the mess you are today is that you believe newspaper reports, we do not.

Complaining about leaking of information and requesting official unambiguous information are two completely different things and quite honestly, I have no idea how you could compare the two!

This investigation from start to finish (or where it is now) has been conducted in the most disgraceful inept fashion that I have ever seen in my entire life, if this fiasco was conducted in the UK there would have been hell to play. There would have been sackings and resignations from the police and the political scene by now, ye Gods, I have seen Home Secretaries be forced to resign for much less than this fiasco.

By the time we have finished a few heads will roll in Portugal too.

Remember every journey starts with a first step, who knows where this will lead and we will not know unless we try and I am not known for giving up when things get tough, in fact when I get the bit between my teeth, I will not stop!

Rosiepops said...

Bianca

this has nothing to do with newspapers, they will get their actions paper by paper and that has nothing to do with us.

We want the Portuguese government to bring their police force into line with the rest of Europe.
We want a full, open and unambiguous OFFICIAL statement and 'yesterday' would be a good time to give it!

The PJ must say whether they have DNA evidence and they must state what that evidence it, if they haven't got it then they must say so and then they must act accordingly.

If they think they are going to keep the McCann's as suspects for next God knows how many years, they can think again because we will not allow them to get away with that kind of police state corrupt mentality.

Portugal has to make up her mind they either want to be a 'democratic' part of Europe or they want to continue to be a dictatorship and a police state, they (actually) are the ones that cannot have this both ways. If they choose the latter then they should have their EU membership withdrawn.

Simple.

SeaWitch said...

Ladies, I have to join you in chuckling at the camp cattiness of the coffee-addict.

Claudia is an amusing diversion, with her affected "Daaaaaarling"s and her exaggerated lolololololololols, and it always brightens my day when I read her.

She should go ahead and clog her in-box with as many PJ-critical posts as she can handle; it's more entertaining than a stamp collection!

Can you imagine how foolish the "elite" PJ would look if they threw their toys out of the pram because of the the irreverent comments of a group of middle-aged bloggers?

"Alack! Alas! Boo Hoo! That nasty English granny said some mean things about us; lets black her eyes and sue her arse off...."

If they think they've been ridiculed now, they'll need smelling salts when they hear the response to that!

Sorry, PJ, we don't do fearful, forelock-tugging deference and if you have a tantrum, we'll just laugh at you!

Like this:-

Lolololololololololololololololol!

SeaWitch said...

Bianca,

Re the PJ leaks, you say:-

Yes .. "someone" in the PJ, quite possibly, someone that isn't even WORKING on the case. Again, not the fault of the investigators themselves, but possibly of someone of the chattering lower orders."

**********************************

Alsabella has really sold that one too you, but think about it.

How credible would they be as detectives if they couldn't even root out and gag one of their own employees, albeit someone from the "chattering lower orders"?

JANEGT said...

OI SEAWITCH

LESS OF THE 'ENGLISH' GRANNIES

THE ''UNITED KINGDOM'' GRANNIES PLEASE.

OF WHICH I AM NOT ONE,,,,YET.

but but but

MY SPARE TYRE IS NOW ON, AND I HAVE NOW TO GET NEW TYRE/S AND WHEEL. GREAT STUFF.

SOD IT.

AH WELL.

HOW ARE YOU??? SEE THE SPARKLING GOT BETTER OF YOU AND YOU DID NOT RETURN. HOOVERING COMPUTER AGAIN???? IS IT WORKING NOW?

supertroll said...

What is Claudia on about?
Isn't she supposed to be in Viseu, in Northern Portugal?

This is as ridiculous as someone from Newcastle collecting information to help Sussex police sue.

Claudia is just a spiteful nobody.

She can copy this post and add it to her collection if she wants.

Claudia FANTASMAAAAA!!!!!!!!!

BOOOOOOOOOOO

Regards
ST

Rosiepops said...

Hi Tinks and Jane

Tinks you are right and I love your PROZAC post.

Jane you are correct, this is exactly why I want input from all of you, many heads are better than one. The book is another abomination that should never have been allowed and written by an ex PJ officer himself an arguido on serious imprisonable charges?

I still do not believe the PJ will be here on April 7th and the reason why I do not believe this is because Leicestershire police will not confirm it. The lack of a yes or no either way probably means they have no idea if the PJ are coming because they probably have not yet been informed if the PJ are actually coming, this whole this is a ridiculous farce and they are now trying to bring the British police down to their level, with all this mucking around.

Is there not one person anywhere in the PJ, or the Portuguese judiciary or their Prosecution service that can actually make a decision and damn well stick to it?

One letter they had to write requesting the interviewing of up to nine people and they have been doing this since last September and they cannot even make their minds up exactly how many people they are going to talk to again! It is crazy!

JANEGT said...

supertrll

what a fright you gave me shouting to Portugal like that. so loud too. ;O(((((((((((((((((((( YOU WILL WAKE UP THE pj.

HEE HEE HEE

JUST VOTED ON YOUR NEW POLL

CAN'T WAIT FOR THE OUTCOME.

Bianca said...

"Bianca, the reason why you and the rest of the people you associate with are in the mess you are today is that you believe newspaper reports, we do not." - Rosiepops


So what is informing your opinions about this case, if not reporting in the media?? Where are you getting the "information" on which you base you opinions on this case? Unless you have inside information, you must be basing your opinions about this case on at least SOME aspect of media reporting. If not newspapers, then what? If even the PJ have not been able to assemble definitive facts about this case, then what makes you so informed and apparently certain that you have the facts? Where are you getting your information from?


"Complaining about leaking of information and requesting official unambiguous information are two completely different things and quite honestly, I have no idea how you could compare the two!" - Rosiepops

I can easily compare the two. Because if the leaked "information" is flawed to begin with, then the McCanns, if innocent, have nothing to fear. Any inconsistencies will surely come out when put to the test in a court room?? Furthermore, if the PJ are as inept and corrupt as you assert, what makes you think that the information they provide (even on demand by their government) will EVER be official (aren't they "inept"? Wouldn't this mean their records are stuffed?), or "unambiguous" (aren't they "corrupt"?). If the PJ have nothing of any substance on the McCanns then this will all be proved eventually. You can not stop a police force from making up their own minds on how an investigation will be run, even if they make mistakes along the way. (What police force doesn't make mistakes? Didn't the British cops shoot an innocent Brazillian man for being a "terrorist"?)

JANEGT said...

ROSIEPOPS, MANDZ AND ALL

HERE WE GO AGAIN.

i AM OFF

SEE YOU LATER.

SeaWitch said...

Jane,

Sorry, Scottish mum. No offence meant, I'm a mongrel myself with blood from everywhere in the UK, so wind yer neck in!

Glad the tyre's fixed - next time, just stop and call your recovery service because driving on a flat tyre is a very BAD thing to do!

Consider yourself told!

JANEGT said...

seawitch


Ii AM ONLY TEASING YOU, you know that full well, hee hee, BUT THIS IS NOT ONLY uk GRANNIES, BUT WORLDWIDE GRANNIES AND ALL AGES too.

I KNOW -RE MY TYRE. BUT THEY DO NOT ANSWER CALLS PARTICULARLY ON MAJOR ROADS AT PEAK TIME. NO CHOICE REALLY. HEY HO...... thank goodness for 'plastic' money as feel this is going to cost me bigtime. Happens to us all.

Is your laptop working at all now? Saveable? Hope so. what a pest. Melbel has computer probs too and her mouse went into complete shock after being on F;s site and seeing page after page after page of 'legal 'stuff' '

YYYYYAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWNNN

JANEGT said...

ooops SEAWITCH

forgot....did you vote on supertroll's new poll --- and did you see the latest dream and vision from anon???

cheer you up......

despite losing an hour's sleep last night.

melbel said...

Hi Seawitch and Tinks
You are a scream,Seawitch and have brightened my Sunday.
Do not come,after this particular granny, as she has not a bean.x

JANEGT said...

SEAWITC

neck in now

consider myself told

pass the biscuits for my coffee quick.

JANEGT said...

H

forgot it


sorry ;o)))

where is Mum21 designing her new poll vote avatar????

Bianca said...

"Portugal has to make up her mind they either want to be a 'democratic' part of Europe or they want to continue to be a dictatorship and a police state, they (actually) are the ones that cannot have this both ways. If they choose the latter then they should have their EU membership withdrawn." - Rosiepops


Well if they ARE a dictatorship and/or a police state how is that affecting the McCanns? After all, aren't they at home in Leicestershire?? And speaking of a "police state", I wonder how that poor Portuguese drifter felt when Metodo 3 and the world's media descended on him like a swarm of bees and accused him of doing dreadful things to a little girl he'd never seen a day in his life?? To me, this is the real fascism. A couple who are official suspects in a criminal case who are, nevertheless, allowed to hire their own private investigators, and then use these investigators to bully and torment hapless, penniless souls who have absolutely nothing to do with anything whatsoever! Jane tanner at first said (to the world's media!) that the man she saw carrying the child had "no face". Then suddenly .. he DOES have a face! And next thing you know, some poor guy who's never even been to PDL is being labeled the filthiest label of all - "a child abductor/killer".

Finally, isn't it rather ironic that you are claiming that Portugal is behaving undemocratically, and yet here you are, stating that if Portugal doesn't abide by the rules YOU see fit, they should be withdrawn form the EU?? This is a pretty big call over (with all due respect to Madeleine) one little girl, don't you think?

I wonder who here is REALLY attempting a "dictatorship" here??

Rosiepops said...

SeaWitch

That was a brilliant post. I have no idea what the spiteful Claudia is saying now, I have been bothered to look.

Is she still laughing like this
looooooooooooooooooool?

lauging out out out out etc etc etc loud?

What a strange little person she is, does she think she can scare us? Me?

Well Claudia (waves) I would love my day in court, I would love the chance to get into a court of law with the world's press in attendance to get my message across as to why I said the things I did about your sainted PJ.
I would love to be on the steps outside the High Court UNFETTERED by some archaic secrecy order.

First of all though to prove libel, your PJ have to prove what I am saying is not true. They have to prove that they did run an effective crime scene, when everyone in the world knows that they didn't and that is for starters.

This would be excellent because it would serve to turn the spotlight directly on the PJ's failings good good good, this is exactly what we want.

Somehow though I do no think the PJ or the Portuguese government will want this, they actually want this to go away and picking on a group of ladies some grannies, will just serve to blast this thing wide open, I hope they do.

Bring it on.

This granny is not for scaring.

I still do not know what Claudia is trying to do by threatening all of this, it is a joke, but then Claudia is a silly little girl and a real joke - grow up sweeeeeeetie daaaaarrrrrling.

(Give Tubby my love)

If I was a lower order working in the PJ offices and I have been peddling out information, I would be very afraid now because now the chickens are coming home to roost, in short it's pay back time.

The lid is coming off and the brown stuff is about to hit the fan and a few people's heads are going to roll, daaaaaaaaarling!

Bianca said...

"Alsabella has really sold that one too you, but think about it."

"How credible would they be as detectives if they couldn't even root out and gag one of their own employees, albeit someone from the "chattering lower orders"?"

30 March 2008 16:59 - Seawitch


This opinion about the PJ leaks coming from the lower orders is actually an idea I suggested to Alsabella. Not one Alsabella suggested to me.

Furthermore, every police force has its leaks and has people who are willing to talk to the media. Just because the investigators themselves haven't been able to root them out yet, doesn't make them also corrupt.

supertroll said...

Rosiepops,

She doesn't know any of them...

Other than perhaps having a thing about men in uniform, I very much doubt she talks to any PJ officers. (I have just had a vision of them running scared)

Can you imagine the embarassment hers and Alsa's activities would bring to the PJ?

Talk about bringing the force into disrepute...

Claudia, FANTASMAAAAAAAA!!!!

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Regards
ST

Bianca said...

"First of all though to prove libel, your PJ have to prove what I am saying is not true. They have to prove that they did run an effective crime scene, when everyone in the world knows that they didn't and that is for starters." - Rosiepops


Rosiepops, could you please tell me how the whole world knows this? Who told them?

JANEGT said...

ROSIEPOPS

Thanks for your Thatcherite speech making....

rallying the troops??? you have loads here.

As you say, BRING IT ON. Let's see how many other police forces not only limited to the EEC but the WORLD -- would allow arguido cops to investigate (or not) another child case after what they are charged with. NOTE CHARGED with unlike the McCanns who are *not charged* nor will they be. They wanted to charge first, find evidence later, and it did not pan out for them. So, now they are stuck with more arguiodos in the PJ than in entire Mcann family. If Clawed Ear thinks by gatherin evidence she is supporting the PJ good. As all she will certainly do, is bring them down a little faster than we, the EEC, the world, and plain decent folk wanting justice to BE SEEN TO BE DONE......good. She is only serving OUR CAUSE. GOOD ON YOU CLAWED EAR. GO FOR IT GIRL. DADDY WILL BE PLEASED. oN THAT SITE, I HAVE SEEN THEM NAME THE MCCANNS AS 'MURDERERS' . HA HA HA LIBELLOUS IN THE EXTREME, THEN THE LUNATIC MRS 1-5 AND THE FFFORENSICCCCSS SICKO. NEED I SAY MORE? THAT IS BEYOND BELIEF AND EVEN BEYOND A STRAIT JACKET. I am sorry to say I would not even waste my green electricity on electric shock treatment for her, as you need a brain for that... and this, clearly, is lacking in entirety.

Rosiepops said...

Bianca

Why are you here arguing? Don't you understand yet that the time for arguments and bitter narrow minded speculation has passed, it has gone, here we want to move forward, we need to do something about a situation that is glaringly wrong and this is what we are going to do, if you want to keep discussing the whys and where fors and the non existent DNA foooooooorensic evidence, best go to the blog of hate, where you will be warmly welcomed.

It does not matter what you or Claudia or others say, we are going to do something about this grossly unfair situation. The McCann's are British subjects and their human rights are being abused and it has gone on long enough, it is time it stopped.

It really is as simple as that, but I do say this, when the questions of the PJ are asked, there is going to be a lot of fall out, the ripples will be extensive.

Bianca said...

"Thanks for your Thatcherite speech making...." - JaneGT

Yes .. speaking of facists ...

You know Jane, you seem to have some very strong opinions on the McCanns for somebody who doesn't base any of her information on newspaper reports (according to Rosiepops). Just wondering where you get you info on the McCanns from?

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hi Jane,

I'm just keeping eye, ignore!

isis said...

Tinks, i cant watch, ten mis to go !!

JANEGT said...

BLANCA


WHAT'S A ''''FACIST'''?


IF YOU CAN'T SPELL IT - YOU CLEARLY HAVE NO WAY OF LOOKING UP A DICTIONARY TO FIND OUT ITS MEANING.

YOU ONLY COME HERE TO DISRUPT. I WILL NOT POST YOU.

I HAVE A RIGHT TO MY OPINIONS. YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO YOURS.

IT BEATS ME WHY YOU ARE HERE AT ALL, AS IT SAYS 'ON THE TIN' WHAT WE ON THIS BLOG STAND FOR. I HAVE YET TO SEE YOU STAND AT ALL FOR ANYTHING ORIGINALLY THOUGHT OUT BY Y O U NOT SPOON FED TO YOU BY IGNORANT, VILE PEOPLE.

NOW I WILL NOT POST YOU AGAIN UNTIL YOU GROW UP AND LEARN TO SPELL AT LEAST. AND...HAVE YOUR own OPINION.....

I do not like troublemakers
and two faced people
I saw what you wrote about me on other blog. Now, go away and play with your playmates - it's nearly your bed time.

ha ha ha ha

you are a scream. really amusing

DON'T come on here and challenge me on my views - well thought out - well held and backed up.

Keep your venom to other blogs.

Christabel said...

Rosie,

More info sent to you.
If any good the rest to follow.

Bianca said...

"It really is as simple as that, but I do say this, when the questions of the PJ are asked, there is going to be a lot of fall out, the ripples will be extensive."

30 March 2008 17:35 - Rosiepops


"There is going to be ...", "There will be ..."

Two highly predictive statements. Just wondering what you are basing your predictions on? Unless you have a crystal ball, what makes you so confident to make these predictions?

Oh sorry, I thought you invited 'debate" on here. Don't you sign out your messages with "happy debating"? I thought I was debating?

I agree it is time to move forward. But somehow the focus on here has shifted from "looking for madeleine" to 'suing the PJ". It seems vindictive, spiteful, and counter-productive. I can understand the McCanns themselves getting steamed up about suing the PJ (after all, like the 500,000 pounds from the DE, THEY are the ones that will be reaping the handsome financial rewards if such a thing takes place - loss of name/character, etc), but it beats me why outsiders to the case would be getting so indignant about it. Oh, give it some air-time, for sure, but why so worked up?? Again, isn't it counter-productive to actually "getting out there" and "searching for Madeleine"??

Tinkerbell43 said...

Isis,

I was thinking about you 5 mins ago, no worries, its in the bag!

melbel said...

I see that a rumour is spreading, as ever,on Felicity's site,that the McCann's lawyers, have said that they will not cooperate with the PJ,when they arrive.
What utter nonsense.
As if that could be the actual advice given!
You could not make it up.

isis said...

Tinks, for sure as rafa says,,,,,not my fingernails are gone!!

JANEGT said...

BIANCA

YOU CONFUSE DEBATE AND ARGUMENT.

You do the latter,- we encourage the former, - politely!!!

You fail on that count too.

SeaWitch said...

Bianca,

Whether you suggested it or not is irrelevant, I still think you need to think a bit more about the suggestion.

I hesitate to use that phrase "lower order" because I do not subscribe to this idea of the elite PJ; every Police officer, regardless of rank or role, provides an invaluable service to the public.

The leaks in this case were on a large and persistent scale. The journalists in Portugal publicly announced they had faith in their sources, and I doubt this would be the case if they had been "lower orders" unconnected with the investigation.

They should have been stopped, early on.

To allow them to continue suggests either corruption, collusion or incompetence. Take your pick.

Ignorance is no defence.

Bianca said...

"DON'T come on here and challenge me on my views - well thought out - well held and backed up." - JaneGT


Really? Well let's see you think them out, uphold them, and back them up.

Because all I've ever seen you do is argue ad hominem.

You put forth a position, and then when someone suggests an alternate position, you start capitalising all your words and launching a personal attack.

Where do you stand on the issues? Why? How can you support this stance? These are the things you must consider when debating. Debating is different from getting hot under the collar and simply letting off steam.

Christabel said...

Seawitch,

great post, and whatever happened to the two faced Paulo Reiss twit.
He changed his tune as often as his socks.
Hi Paulo hope your looking in yoo hoo.

SeaWitch said...

Bianca,

Margaret Thatcher was many things, but she was not a fascist.

Whether you agreed with her politics or not, she was one of the most effective leaders of the 20th century.

It's too easy to attempt to score cheap points by bandying around words like "fascist", "racist" and "xenophobe".

They are the cheat's way of attempting to gain the advantage when their arguments have no substance.

isis said...

Tinks.... yesssssssssssssssss !!!! Off to the fridge for the champers !!!!!!!!

Rosiepops said...

Bianca

The Fascist is a very strong word and where Thatcher and I were never really on agreement with much, she was not a fascist. to use that term like that dilutes a word that should be saved for real fascists.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Isis,

Yep, that'll do nicely!

Make sure you replace in time for Wednesday! I've saved my fingernails for that one, lol.

Rosiepops said...

SeaWitch

Bang on target there at 17.34.

careless use of words like fascist, racist and xenophobe make like out of situations which hold grave concerns for all of us in the free world.

Couldn't agree more.

Christabel said...

Bianca,

would you like to know where and how we get our information ?, of course you would, its so reliable.
"Well tough".

isis said...

Tinks, there is loads on tap,as for wed night i dont think my nerves will be up to that !!

Rosiepops said...

Christabel

Paulo Reis closed his blog I remember, said he was going on holiday? Did he ever reopen it?

Bianca said...

"The leaks in this case were on a large and persistent scale. The journalists in Portugal publicly announced they had faith in their sources, and I doubt this would be the case if they had been "lower orders" unconnected with the investigation." - Seawitch


Well maybe you are correct. Certainly, the leaks from the PJ (from wherever in the PJ!) seem numerous. In fact, they have driven the majority of the coverage of the McCann story, not just in Portugal, or even Britain, but the whole world! I am not Portuguese, have no vested interest in supporting the PJ as a police force, and will not state categorically that the PJ haven't been responsible. Maybe they have. Maybe they have not. However, what I DO know, from observing other criminal cases and missing children cases in the media, is that often journalists will SAY they have their info from a reputable source, when in fact, their source is ANYTHING but reputable, and sometimes, no source at all! (i.e., the journo made the whole thing up themselves!). We saw this a lot during the Lindy Chamberlain "Dingo Baby" case in Australia. And certainly, How many times did we read in the newspapers times, dates, and predictions, supposedly informed by an "official" leak by the PJ that turned out to be complete bunkum? I wonder, how many of these sanctioned "leaks", were actually just the fantasies of the journalists? The unfortunately, as members of the public, most of the "information" we get on this or any other case, comes from journalists, and so it's difficult to know if we (pro OR anti) will EVER get the complete truth.

SeaWitch said...

Melbel,

Keep looking over your shoulder, you never know when they'll come to get a rabble-rouser like you!!!

Your pension book will not be safe from the asset-strippers!

Rosie,

No, it's laugh out loud out loud out loud out loud out loud........

;-)

Rosiepops said...

Supertroll

Clawd ear, is nothing but a silly little wet behind the ears immature girl and if she thinks she is helping the PJ, she needs to think again, because this is just what we want and h=just what they do not want.

They do not want to answer questions, they do not want to be the subjects of an internal probe into their standards. They do not want to be forced to hold an inquiry to discover who is leaking to journalists and they certainly do not want to be forced to find out who gave all that sensitive witness information and their personally details to that female journalist.

This happened when Goncalo Amaral was in charge. can you imagine being part of an investigation coming under this kind of spotlight? The first question which would be asked was who was privy to this information, the second would be to investigate who had leaked it and the third would be to discover if any money changed hands for this info. Good gracious not only would heads roll, pensions would be lost. so I think there will be a few in the PJ offices that would cheerfully gag Little Miss Clawd Ear!

Christabel said...

Rosie,

No he hasn't reopened it.He said it would be closed due to a small illness nothing serious, or something like that.

He was one of the first to point the finger at Murat and Malinka, on the 4th May to be exact, he said Murat had told reporters his daughters name was madeleine.
He also said there was no way Kate or Gerry was involved

SeaWitch said...

Bianca,

I can meet you half way there. I think it was very probably a mixture of PJ leak and journalists fantasy.

As ever, though, lives have been destroyed by the salacious and cynical stories.

calcite51 said...

Good morning everyone.

Rosie:
Did you want us all to sign the letter or does it then become a petition if more than one person signs?

Clawdia, I thought the book that what's his name wrote was going to restore the PJ's tarnished reputation? Do you really think they need YOU to fight their battle?

But here we go - the PJ's IN MY NOT SO HUMBLE OPINION, are inefficient, corrupt, thick as molasses, etc. Make sure you take a copy of that, Clawdia.

Bianca said...

Okay then I'll retract it. Margaret Thatcher wasn't a fascist (in the Mussolini sense). Fair enough.

However, she was a penny-pinching, micro-economically obsessed, economic rationalist bully (and like John Howard, the ex-Aussie prime minister, the child of a small business owner), who brought England to its knees, and raised unemployment and poverty to an all-time high.

Aside from that though, she was great.

Rosiepops said...

SeaWitch

What do you mean like this?

lolololololololololololololol?

JANEGT said...

is this the right blog???

topics not on topic at all here.

JANEGT said...

CALCITE

hi there to you too

It's now 18.20 here. I agree entirely with your post, well said. Indeed!!!!!

JANEGT said...

CHRISTABEL

your 18.00 post


ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ;o) ;o)

so apt. well put indeed. curt and to point.

hee hee!!!

''tough'' indeed! as will be shown. Sooner the better.

calcite51 said...

Bianca, all democratic countries at one point or another have had a hypocritical, self-serving, corrupt, etc. individual who have taken their country down economically and morally to their knees.

However, countries often have public investigations into the wrong doing of the politician. Do they always work? Of course not. But I think when a politician is publicly embarrassed, then perhaps a little bit of justice has been served.

JANEGT said...

ha ha ha ha ENGLAND???

to its knees? (Blanca post)

When did Scots, Irish and Welsh get separation order?????

ha ha ha ha ha

supertroll said...

I just wanted to clarify...

Fantasma: Portuguese and spanish word which means ghost or apparition.

Used also to describe a person who is a 'Walter Mitty'. Lots of ooooooooh and BOOOOOH, but no substance behind their claims.

Note also that the word has many A's and therefore it might be suitable to use as an ID for some well known characters.

We could have, fantasma1,
fantasma2...and so on...

Regards
ST

JANEGT said...

SUPERTROLL

can't wait for new blog by faaannnntaaaasmaaaaaa

then,

Your concepts are of course right.

Bianca said...

Bianca,

I can meet you half way there. I think it was very probably a mixture of PJ leak and journalists fantasy.

As ever, though, lives have been destroyed by the salacious and cynical stories.

30 March 2008 18:14 - Seawitch


And I can meet you half way. Because while I would NEVER argue in favour of a muzzled press (this is a REAL police-state) and believe very strongly in freedom of speech, I also think that newspapers go too far in the stories they "report". To "report" is one thing (no matter how outrageous), but to simply make something up is another. I often wonder, when reading and listening to the news, how much of what I am getting is objective and factual, as opposed to how much is driven by fantasy and/or the personal opinion of the reporter. If the McCanns have fallen victim to made-up stories then yes, this is unfair. But then again, if WE are objective, we can see that clearly the McCanns have had their own media stories and spin machines right from the beginning (the ultimate manifestation of which being Clarence Mitchell). I feel sorry for the Mccanns being on the receiving end of scurrilous reports, then again, I feel equally sorry for the innocent man swarmed down on by Metodo 3 and paraded to the news of the world. In fact, I think I feel MORE sorry for him, and he does not have the money and resources available to him to fight such scurrilous accusations as the McCanns have. Though his regular acquaintances know he is innocent (and even laughed at the mere thought!) we all know mud sticks, and this man will have to live with this for the rest of his life.

It's no good claiming to be humane, caring, and simply wanting justice for one couple (i.e., the McCanns), if you are then going to write-off or try to negate the humanity of somebody else (i.e., the Portuguese man wrongly fingered for the abduction of Madeleine). A truly just person is fair, equitable and balanced. Not always easy when you are strongly opinionated (as I am) but something that we all should aim for, I think.

Mandz said...

Hi To All Proz!
Rosie count me in – brilliant!

The head of the PJ had to come out and speak about this case due to the leaks and he admitted there was leaks within his camp however he put it down to the inexperienced policemen. Tut tut…

**********************************

McCanns' misery goes on amid newspaper coverage exhibiting a casual cruelty
November 27, 2007 9:00 AM

"It's not often that a newspaper headline can induce a physical reaction, a sense of queasiness so real that you feel the lurch in your gut. MADDIE MUM 'SOLD HER' falls into that category." That's the opening to a Scotsman article today by Kate Miller Just how much vilification do they have to suffer?

She is horrified by yesterday's insensitive Daily Star headline over a story that claimed the theory of the child being sold by her parents was once investigated by the Portuguese police. "Who knows how it got out", writes Miller. "But it got out, and this is where we are, almost seven months after Madeleine McCann vanished from her bed."

She continues: "You have to hope that Kate and Gerry McCann stopped reading the papers a long time ago, that they have their news filtered though the calm compassion of Clarence Mitchell, the former BBC journalist turned family spokesman. He described the theory, splashed across sections of the British press yesterday, as 'a new level of lunacy'".

Lunacy, yes, but also callousness. The casual cruelty of the headline over a story which, to be frank, has little authenticity, is a disgrace. But the Star is reflecting a disturbing trend. As Miller writes, the vilification of the McCanns "has become nothing less than a national pastime." All sorts of far-fetched theories about the reason for their daughter's disappearance have been raised in reporting so cavalier that there is no longer even a pretence about attributing claims to credible sources.

To quote Miller again, "There is now no claim so bizarre that we won't entertain it, mull it over, consider it, give it space and weight. Theorising about the McCanns is the new navel-gazing, a favourite topic, still, for every water cooler, dinner party and coffee morning." She goes on to chart the changing public perception about the McCanns, even by supposedly "rational, educated people... who should know better."

She then calls for the public baiting to stop in an impassioned polemic, which had me nodding vigorously. All journalists should read her piece in full.

But let me take further the implications of her argument, that the responsibility for the public's unhealthy obsession with the McCanns lies with the media. Irresponsible newspapers - notably the Star and its stablemates, the Daily and Sunday Express - have been guilty of publishing all manner of innuendo that feeds an unhealthy appetite for spiteful gossip.

A classic example is today's Express splash: "Crucial evidence which could point the finger of suspicion at Kate and Gerry McCann is being kept under lock and key, it was revealed last night. DNA tests are said to undermine their claims that they had nothing to do with the disappearance of their daughter Madeleine... It is there that tests into DNA particles allegedly linking the McCanns to Madeleine's death have been carried out."

Note my italics: could - or could not; are said to undermine - said by whom?; allegedly - here's the hand of the office lawyer. There is no genuine basis to the story. Indeed, the only sources mentioned are those "close to the McCanns" who deny the allegations. It's all speculation and innuendo.

I know that papers understand there is a ready audience for speculative rubbish about the McCanns. I know how easy it is to concoct such rubbish. I know that editors are happy to defend their rubbish by asserting that they are exercising press freedom by probing a story in the public interest. But rubbish is rubbish.

They also know that their unattributed stories, which contradict each other day by day, are not throwing any genuine light on the mystery. They are nothing more than sales gimmicks aimed at pandering to the basest of human characteristics, a gloating, ghoulish, gossiping vulgarity devoid of basic human pity

Bianca said...

"When did Scots, Irish and Welsh get separation order?????

ha ha ha ha ha" - JaneGT


Sorry. Should have said "Britain" not "England". Hilarious, I know!

JANEGT said...

BIANCA

ok

truce?

it's not that funny nor was 'facist'. I typed in capitals coz yes I WAS SHOUTING AT YOU. My choice, o a criminal offence, especailly after your last foray here. Now, let's forget it. eh??


get my point?

you know what this blog is about, you know what we stand for, it is nor a surprise.

calcite51 said...

Bianca, I agree with your last statement and about that poor man who was being investigated by Metado3.

As for the McCanns, if you look in the history of missing children, i.e. Mr. and Mrs. John Walsh - the media almost destroyed that couple after their son (Adam) went missing. Again, a lot of leaks happened in that case too.

Then, there was the Smart family - Elizabeth's uncles, her dad were also suspected and became victims of the media circus.

I think stories reported in the media should be read with a grain of salt.

Bianca said...

JaneGT - Always happy to have a truce. I like a good debate, even an argument (so long as it's rational) but have never wanted to go to war with anyone (well, not over the internet anyway!)

Truce.

Mandz said...

Hahaha so little Miss Claw is going to tell the police on us? For what? HYS an opinion on this case on a BLOG? Hahaha LOL..LOL..LOL..LOL.......

I can just see us all being deported!!!!! - who is making the sandwiches & flasks of tea/coffee and ginger nuts (jane)?!!!!!!!

Bianca said...

"I think stories reported in the media should be read with a grain of salt." - Calcite51

I agree. I mean, it's hard to not form opinions about news stories based on your own personal bent in life - political, social, whatever, but I think a good general rule, no matter WHO you are, is to take anything from the media with a grain of salt. And to be fair (and I'm sure, controversial!), that includes stories that supposedly came from PJ leaks. As I said, maybe they DID, maybe they DIDN'T, but we can't just assume that they all did, PARTICULARLY when we know how fond individual journalists are about putting their own spin on the Madeleine McCann case.

melbel said...

Off now,guys, as I am spending time with family, after eating packet chicken chasseur.
I have been laughing, more than good for me, at Vile's site,mainly on account of some anons.
Take care all.x

Rosiepops said...

Mandz

Are you sacre of Little Miss Clawd Ear?

And thr big boogiemen PJ?

Bianca said...

See you Melbel, hope you enjoy your time with your family.

I'm sure this won't go down too well, but Viv really isn't vile you know - just sees things through different eyes (I'll prob be booted off the blog now!).

Anyway, see you later Melbel.

Rosiepops said...

Melbel

Have a good evening, hope to see you back later xxx

calcite51 said...

Melbel - I swear it wasn't me on vile's site posting as the Anony. I only posted that one time when I posted to Bianca and bitched about
Ana.

Bianca said...

I've got a funny feeling I'm about to get booted off here so I'd better go! Thanks for at least giving me the opportunity to explain my point of view and why I hold it.

Cheers pro-blog,

Bianca.

Rosiepops said...

Bianca

You may not think she is vile, I do. Perhaps if you were a McCann (or me) you may change your mind?

besides her stating as a fact that the McCann's killed their little daughter, she has called me a fair few disgusting things too, still I do have a sense of humour.

Sass said...

Hiya

How's it going? Anything new? What's this about Clawdia?

JANEGT said...

BIANCA

TRUCE IT IS

good.

;o))

calcite51 said...

Taken from the other blog - update on the 5 PJ's. The poor PJ's are going to be busy. Trial to take place on the 8th and some are coming (maybe, just maybe) on the 9th.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/03/mccanns-case-team-of-pj-in-leicester.html

Rosiepops said...

Is Alsabella/Marla/Ana

around today?

Mandz said...

Yawn Yawn Yawn.....Where have I heard that one before!!!!!!!

Melbel have a good one x

Rosie I'm so scared....Do you think we will be deported?!!!!

SeaWitch said...

Bianca,

I agree with your 18:32 post in it's entirety.

I have argued the same points myself in the past, and I firmly believe the story got out of hand on both sides long ago.

I think it spiralled out of control because the McCanns were forced onto the defensive at an early stage by the scurrilous reporting and apparent Police leaks.

They, in turn, lost perspective and some of their press releases fell far short of the original stated objective, which was to keep Madeleine McCann in the headlines for as long as possible in order to maximise the opportunities of finding her.

I did not agree with the press hounding of Murat, nor of the various others upon whom suspicion has fallen.

Equally, witnesses, naive to the ways of the journalists, have been encouraged to give accounts which have then been systematically ridiculed to the point where many observers would feel reluctant about assisting the Police in future.

I do not subscribe to the concept of having blind faith in any organisation, particularly if that unquestioning acceptance is based upon illogical Nationalism.

I believe that official agencies such as the Police must be of the utmost integrity and the public is entitled to hold them up to scrutiny.

We are also entitled to expect honesty and integrity from a free press and, when the media lets us down, as they have in this case, it is hard to know where we can obtain reliable information from.

I think I'll get off my soap box now, before this post turns into a tirade!

calcite51 said...

Sorry, guys I didn't see anything about Joana's case on there.

Sass said...

Bye Bianca
Bye Melbel

Bianca, if you don't agree with Viv she does get vile. She has called us all supporters of child neglect, paedophiles, said our children should be taken off us, etc. And by the way, you won't get booted off just for having a different opinion from us!

JANEGT said...

MANDZ

great stuffl

let's all get deported. where shall we go? We will need a lot of bendy buses and boats to get us to where we are deported to. Hmmm Where shall it be??

We have a long standing arrangement with Oz for ex--cons to go there, so We Have Friends.....shan't name them......from there..... who can help us. Great stuff.

Off to pack. ;o)))))))))))))))

Bianca said...

Rosiepops,

Again, I don't think this will go down too well, but I really do think Viv is just passionate about her opinion and maybe sometimes she says things that are not the best!

I have spent a bit of time talking to her now, and I honestly don't think she has a bad bone in her body!

Still, to your credit Rosiepops, you have never been one for serious name-calling, and that is to your credit.

You know I am an anti regarding this case, however, that doesn't mean that I can't see good points in individual posters .. even the "pro's".

Take care.

Sass said...

Mandz

If you are deported then it's back to plan A. You can all come here and hide out in my flat and I'll make you clothes from my curtains (only have net ones - bit chilly, but hey - who said this was going to be luxury).

JANEGT said...

SASS

On my way, but I must insist on wearing my Tiara with your lovely net. That and my large handbag and laptop and thigh white pvc boots will suffice. thank you so much for putting us up.

SEAWITCH

One of your few moments of total lucidity there, excellent post from you and every word well thought out. Well done. ;o)))

Bianca said...

"I think I'll get off my soap box now, before this post turns into a tirade!

30 March 2008 19:11" - Seawitch


No no, it's not a tirade. I actually think what you have said is very rational. If both sides were held up to scrutiny (i.e., the PJ to make clear why they have kept the McCanns as "arguidi" for so long, and the McCanns being expected to submit to police questioning when the police come in April) then I think we in the public would feel that we were getting to the truth a lot quicker. I think one of the reasons the media (both British and Portuguese) have been able to speculate so much, is because both the McCanns and the PJ have been behaving in a way that is opaque and incongruent, and therefore, subject to rumour and innuendo.

Sass said...

Jane

Yup, in that little get-up in the village I live in I'm sure you'll blend in marvellously!

Mandz said...

Sass,

Beats prison Sass! I’m up for that…!!

Bianca said...

"And by the way, you won't get booted off just for having a different opinion from us!"

30 March 2008 19:15 - Sass


Thanks Sass. Appreciate it.

Mandz said...

Jane,

Ha ha! Anywhere but Portugal...Bring the Ginger Nuts!

Christabel said...

Jane,

You wear that lot and you will have no problem.

Sass,
If you have only got net, what do we do with the hangy bits ?

Mandz,
we can buy them lunch, no probs then eh ?

JANEGT said...

OMG OMG

well sass, tinks, rosie and anyone still with will to live

ha ha this definitely beats our wri calendar now. thigh boots, nets, tiara, laptops and handbags at the ready on bendy buses galore.

BRRRRRRRRRING IT ON.


#GETTING MY TICKET NOW..... ;O)

What a picture I have in my mind. Gerrrrrooooggggg.

Can just see Mrs 1-5 in fffooorrrrensic soco suit in net ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

going to lie down in dark room now

YOUR FAULT.

Sass said...

Bianca

You're welcome.

Mandz

Just bang on the door when you get here! Even have Tetley tea at home, so am will prepared for British visitors!

Mandz said...

Hi Christabel!

Forgot about that one! Buy them lunch maybe even a glass of wine?!! SORTED!!!!!!!

Tinkerbell43 said...

Evening All,

Jane,

That sounds like the usual attire for a night out in Essex!

chinadoll said...

Just peeking in and noticed that Bianca has zoooomed in, with her engine revving as usual.

I agree Bianca, that it is unfortunate, that the Portuguese man, was wrongly fingered for the abduction of Madeleine.

It is also unfortunate (on a catastrophic level) that the McCanns had to hire outside help in the first place, due to the pj's continued paranoid tunnel vision of accusing the parents and searching for non existent evidence to support their well known theories. Just because the pj gave up looking for Madeleine, does not mean the family had to do so and I fervently believe, they never will.

It is also unfortunate that the pj did not follow up all the leads/information in their possession (albeit, some of which was written on the back of fag packets and the like)
Had the pj interviewed the family that stayed in the appartment prior to the McCanns and whom I understand contributed to the picture which was distributed, of the bearded man, then it follows that the pj should have located this individual, interviewed him and ruled him out themselves.

It is also unfortunate that the pj leaked the names, addresses and phone numbers of the tapas group and Wilkins and his wife and that they too, were subjected to harassment by the media. This particular leak, was imo done by someone very high up in the investigation and was designed to put the persons concerned under added pressure and press scrutiny, even though they had all been formally interviewed and cooperated with the enquiry.

It is well known that in cases of this nature and magnitude, hundreds, even thousands of people may have to be questioned, as even the smallest most insignificant of leads could be the one that cracks the case. I agree, that it would be preferrable for those whose job it is and whose duty it is, to be seen to be doing so.

JANEGT said...

christabel

''HANGY BITS'' ????????

MY DEAR

YOU m u s t MEAN THE CURTAINS AND NOT OUR BODIES.....NO NO NO NOT AT ALL. heaven forfend.

sass

Love Tetley tea. Are we being sponsored by tatley as well asMcCanns now??? Coes Clara know? Only fair to say to them.....

HA HA HA HA HA HA OOOPS NO I MEAN


LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Christabel said...

Sass,

You know I only like Sainsbury's Red Label, spose I gotta bring my own, ugh no change there then.

Sass said...

Hiya Chinadoll

How ya doing. Just off to find out for myself what all the talk of Clawdia is cos noone will enlighten me! Back in a minute.

Mandz said...

Sass,

I’ve got to take this seriously….therefore as a “criminal” on the run I would need to break in to your flat…can you imagine if word got out that this bad mother knocked on a door? No if I got sent down and word got out I would be in big trouble – someone might even push me down the stairs.

calcite51 said...

I suggest we all "HIDE" out at Helen's place - we'll be right under the PJ's noses - see how long it takes to find us. In the meantime, we can go out for lunches with HelenM and have some of those liquid lunches.LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

JANEGT said...

chinadoll

GOOD POST
GOOD EVENING
OR REVERSE THAT TO BE CORRECT. SORRY.

I AM LAUGHING OUT LOUD SO MUCH AT LAST POSTS, I HAVE NOT MY USUAL 'DECORUM' SO TO SPEAK. HA HA HA HA

OH DEAR. it is the visualisation technique that is causing me major problems here, specially the fffffffffffffffffffffforenscic suit
in net with thigh length white stillettoes oMg no no no no

back to dark room.

to make a cork escape from a tight surface for good of its health. hee hee hee

if you get my drift.

LOL really LOL not a joke ....

!!!

chinadoll please go to supertrolls site as today's post on dreams and visions is an absolute HOOOt. Best yet. You really must go.

Mandz said...

Excellent Post China!

Hi Tinks!!

Christabel said...

China well said excellent post.

Jane,

No defo not the curtains.
I am speaking for myself only, none of the others will admit it lol.

chinadoll said...

Hi Everyone,

Hope you have all had a lovely weekend. Am going to look back at the earlier posts.

JANEGT said...

MANDZ

you do not need to break in

get a key from mwwwww or whoever.....no problems.

sass needs her door, as it is new, and it would make soooo much noise......

can't have that. Keys are easy to get, remember?????

Christabel said...

Hey Mandz,

Have you seen those steps outside Sassy's flat ? You first lol.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hey China,

Good Evening, very well said!

Christabel said...

Calcite,

Blimey why didn't we think of that?
Your too clever you know.
Theres no way they would even look let alone find ah ah.
Lets go for Cals idea Mandz !

Mandz said...

Calcite!

Good idea! They will never find us..If we go out for a liquid lunch and shout out our blog names…. the penny wont drop..Guaranteed!

Mandz said...

Hey Mandz,

Have you seen those steps outside Sassy's flat ? You first lol.

***************

Christabel

You are scaring me now!!!

JANEGT said...

CHINADOLL

We really do like your serious post and Seawitch for once mde a lot of sense too in a very well thought out long post. In between we are, just let us say, playing with a ridiculous idea which on reading back will become apparent. The posts overlap at times, which makes you tink you are, indeed, in the twilight zone.

I don't want you or anyone else to think that

coz ''''


you are!!!!

ha ha oops no - I mean ....
looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

;o))))))))))))))

Christabel said...

Mandz,

2345 is coming with me, in case I need any advice on ffffrrrrrrreeeeeennnnssssssiiiiicccccccssssssss or dogs oh and DNA.

calcite51 said...

I am being kicked off the computer by the only one who's doing work around here (I'm still in my pj's it's only 1:00 p.m.).

I'll be back later. Have a good one.

Sass said...

Okey-doke Mandz

There are three doors - let me know how many I should leave open for you. Would bashing down one door be enough or would your street cred be ruined?

calcite51 said...

Christabel - only if Mrs. Consecutive Number is heavily sedated and even then I think we have to vote. We could drop her off at the PJ's office, I suppose - let them listen to her rambling.

JANEGT said...

HEY GUYS

In my thigh length stilletoes I don't 'DO' steps.....My tiara might slip not to mention me.

I require a 'hoist' or a glass sided lift with views. And integral bar with champagne. The Lisbon Eye perhaps????? ;o(((

and I don't 'DO' *stannah* either so don't get any ideas. Not a grannie....not at all.

by the way - there are lots of grannies on the other blogs, not to be named = for example 2345.67899% ffforensics who is 60, and child/ren. so ????? - NTBN - NOT TO BE NAMED AS i SAID HEE HEE HEE so why pick on us????

huh


Just wait till our bendy bus is in their region with our posters. That'll teach them.

Christabel said...

Calcite,

I will just give her a colouring book and crayons, that should keep her occupied for a fortnight.

chinadoll said...

As for the outstanding questions, if they are, indeed, due to be asked, the McCanns and the tapas group have repeated stated that they welcome same.

In addition, they have forwarded the names of 25 people (including their holiday companions) which they require the pj to interview further.

..............................

From The Times
November 5, 2007

McCanns give police list of names to interrogate

David Brown

The parents of Madeleine McCann have asked Portuguese police to question 25 witnesses whom they believe hold the key to solving the mystery of their daughter’s disappearance.

A list of names submitted by lawyers acting for Kate and Gerry McCann include the seven British friends who were dining with the couple when Madeleine was taken from the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz on May 3.

Employees at the resort, including the crèche nannies who had looked after Madeleine, are also on the list. A source close to the McCann’s legal team said: “Mr and Mrs McCann have always said that they and their friends are prepared to do whatever it takes to find Madeleine. These people can prove that Madeleine’s parents could not have been involved her abduction and could provide evidence about who took their daughter.” The couple have the legal right to request police operations since they were made arguidos, or official suspects.

JANEGT said...

christabel

no no no

mrs 1-5 doesn't do dogs SHE DOES *CADAVERS*.....THAT'S WHY WE TAKE THE POOSE..... As if a 'cadaver' could find anything at all. hee hee hee



ANYWAY, SHE WOULD GET A CHILL IN HER soco WHITE NET OUTFIT COURTESY OF SASS AND THIGH LENGTH WHITE STILLETOES AS SHE ONLY WEARS SLIPPERS AND CARDIES, AND HER TIARA WOULD SLIP AS SHE'S NO HAIR TO PUT THE NET AND TIARA ON.

NOTHING WOSRE THAN A CHILL N YOUR SOCO.

HA HA

OOPS

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Mandz said...

Christabel all you need to know about dogs is how fast they can run and how fast you can run? As for 2345diddleedooo we do need a laugh so bring her!

Jane,
I have street cred woman come on! Break it sounds much better! The jail birds will think we are pure mental mad mothers!

Sass,
One door would be good as I might be knackered by the time I arrive! Dogs chasing us & all….

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hey China,

I read that article too, everyone is getting carried away with the fact the PJ are reinterviewing the Tapas, wouldn't it be funny if they were interviewing them on request from Gerry & Kate, lol.

Mandz said...

Chinadoll

Thanks for that! Very interesting.

helenm said...

Hi all, Had a good day. Everything ok?

helenm said...

Oh No!!!!

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