Friday, 18 April 2008

Portuguese police accuse McCanns' spokesman Clarence Mitchell of 'lying through his teeth'

By VANESSA ALLEN

Detectives investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have branded her parents' spokesman "a manipulative liar".

The head of the Portuguese police federation, Carlos Anjos, accused Clarence Mitchell of engineering a fight with officers to sabotage a reconstruction of the disappearance.

Police statements made by Kate and Gerry McCann were leaked to the media last week as they travelled to Brussels to promote a campaign for a child alert system.

The statements revealed Maddie was left crying the night before she vanished on May 3.
At the time, Mr Mitchell accused police of masterminding the leak to overshadow the visit.
But Mr Anjos told the respected Portuguese newspaper Jornal de Noticias: 'He is a liar and a Machiavellian.

"Mr Mitchell wants to discredit the Policia Judiciaria and invent excuses so the McCanns do not come to Portugal to participate in the reconstruction of the night she disappeared.

"He lies with as many teeth as he has in his mouth. Finally we know what side truth is on."

A second Portuguese newspaper, Diario de Noticias, claimed police believed Mr Mitchell had leaked the police statements to Spanish television journalist Nacho Abad.

Mr Mitchell said yesterday: "It is categorically untrue and utterly ridiculous to suggest that I in any way leaked documents to embarrass Kate and Gerry.

"Why on earth would I? I will not stoop to answer Mr Anjos's wild allegations. All we have ever wanted is for someone to find Madeleine, without this kind of distraction."

He said the McCanns, from Rothley, Leicestershire, were considering the request to take part in a police reconstruction.

Tensions between the police and the McCann family have grown since Kate and Gerry became formal suspects in the case

It is not the first time that Mr Anjos has caused controversy in the 11-month investigation.
He said that police have "bigger problems" than finding Madeleine, accused her parents of using "diversionary tactics" and hindering the investigation, and said Mr McCann, 39, was "indescribably negligent".

Meanwhile the journalist, Mr Abad, said the statements did not come from Mr Mitchell or the McCanns. He refused to reveal his source, however.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=559675&in_page_id=1770

181 comments:

Rosiepops said...

Morning Everyone,

Feels strange to be here this time of the morning.
Thanks Sass for this article, it really shows the PJ in a very bad light.
Abad will not reveal his sources and in many ways I can understand why, whether we like his job or not, it is his job and to be a good journalist you have to have good sources, if he revealed them then no one would ever trust him again and he may as well write about cats and dogs for the rest of his journalistic career.

Sass said...

Hiya Rosie

Lots gets done in the morning here! You don't know what you're missing!

Abad said it wasn't the McCanns or CM, didn't deny it was the cops though, did he.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Morning All,

I think M3 have been a thorn in the PJ's side. We know M3 have forwarded information onto the PJ.

IMO, because of this the PJ cannot have it their own way and proceed fully in the direction they WANTED to.

I read somewhere, that Murat was allegedly a police informant, just say for example M3 have found something on Murat and forwarded it to the PJ, what would happen in this case. What is happening with the information M3 have passed on.

These are just some of my sleepy thoughts while I sit at my desk wishing I was back home in the land of nod.

See you later.

Sass said...

Hiya Tinks

I wish I were there myself!

Gina said...

Good morning all

I was very tired last night and made loads of mistakes but I have just posted at the bottom of yesterday's page a slang dictionary so those of you that want to can become experts.

I have a gripe this morning, which I am going to get off my chest - I make many typing errors and also sometimes use the wrong word even though I know the correct one, ie there, their, site, sight. I think we all do it from time to time but that does not mean we are stupid. However when foreign posters get the word wrong it seems that great pleasure is taken laughing at them, which I feel is not very charitable. If those who take the mick are also unable to converse accurately in another language I do not see why they feel they have the right to ridicule. I struggle with Spanish and if they laughed at me everything I got the word wrong I would just give up. I have to say I have myself laughed at some of the errors but have not found the need to bring it to others attention.

Well that has got that off my chest, feel better now

helenm said...

Good morning ladies,

You know what impresses me most about this article?

The sheer PROFESSIONLISM of Carlos Anjos!!!! For a man in his position to say that someone is a liar and a machiavellian is just plain stupid, but to tell it to a journalist for it to be printed worldwide, is VERY VERY STUPID!

helenm said...

Morning Gina,
If you are talking about 'leaks' and 'leeks' I think you got hold of the wrong end of the stick, but I'll leave that to Rosie and Tulip to explain as they were the ones remarking on it.

Sass said...

HelenM

Yup! Gawd knows what he was thinking at the time - actually, he wasn't thinking!

Gina

Know idea what you're talking about. The only mistake I know people cracked up about were the "escape goats". That was a sweet one!

SwedishMum said...

Hi all!

Hope you're fine (or should that be well, mustn't use the wrong word ;-))

Gina and Rosie,

I'd like to thank you both for your contributions and interpretations to my "slang lexicon" (the cockney version). I actually managed to understand most of it, but I could not for my world figure out what "jam jar" and "mince pies" were so thanks for saving my sleep.

Gina said...

Sass I agree the goat one made me roll on the floor too. I suppose the reason I get all shirty about it is because when I was in France and trying to speak French (sorry going to upset the French now) they were not very helpful, if you did not pronounce the word correctly it was raised eyebrows and Pardon. The Spanish, help you if you try and it makes you want to have a go even if you get it wrong, and boy have I got it wrong. The word for cashier and Sh"t should similar to me and you guessed it I mixed the two up in the supermarket. Everybody was falling about, but at the same time telling me no problema, poco poco-

No big deal, we all have things that get up our noses a bit

Rosiepops said...

It seems to me the PJ are rattled and desperate to deflect blame away from themselves.
The PJ tried to inflict maximum damage on the McCann's at an extremely sensitive time, at the same time they also decided to float the idea about this reconstruction, knowing fully well that this offer would also cause the McCann's problems and that combined this would reignite those vociferous people, who seem to see this as their life's work to hurt this couple.
This all happens at a time that the PJ were here interviewing the friends and then the PJ turn round and deny it is them?
Pull the other one PJ, it's got bells on and Carlos Anjos needs to learn to keep his fat mouth shut or he will be going down the same road as his mate Goncalo Amaral. In my opinion, after this morning's outburst, he may yet be going down that road anyway, I think this could be one outburst too many from this rotund defender of human rights abusers.

The McCann's and Clarence Mitchell did not need to sabotage this reconstruction the PJ did this all by themselves.

The PJ were begged by the McCann's to do a reconstruction shortly after Madeleine disappeared and the BBC's Crimewatch team offered to fly out to Praia da Luz to do it and the PJ, then working under Fatty Arbuckle 'Goncalo Amaral' refused point blank to allow this reconstruction. (Gonc should take note of what happened to Fatty, after he too faced a criminal trial, for much lesser charges.)

**So why now all of a sudden while the PJ were here in the UK, did someone suddenly announce they wanted to do a reconstruction?

**If this reconstruction was going to go out to the general public on TV, then one could understand (just) why the PJ wanted to do this after almost a year of total inactivity on this case.

**But apparently the PJ want to do this reconstruction for their files. why?

**Is it because they know they have messed up and that this should have been done at the time?

**It is said the PJ want the McCann's, their friends and all those that were present when Madeleine went missing, to take part in this reconstruction, why?

**Are the PJ that heartless that they could not care less about the enormous pain and suffering this would cause Kate and Gerry?

**Haven't the PJ caused this couple enough unnecessary pain and suffering?

**Why haven't the PJ got enough sense to see that this reconstruction can be carried out by actors?



Why is Carlos Anjos shooting his flabby mouth off about this reconstruction anyway? Did he have permission of the person, (Paulo Rebelo) who is supposed to be in charge of this investigation to say all of this?

When Carlos Anjos is not accusing Kate McCann, of something or giving his totally uneducated and woefully inaccurate opinion on DNA, he is saying that the PJ have more important problems than Madeleine McCann to investigate.

Now apparently Anjos has come right out and accused Clarence Mitchell of something that is obviously untrue as it has now been announced by Nacho Abad, that neither the McCann's, or Clarence Mitchell, are responsible for this leak!

Where does this leave Carlos Anjos? I think his motor mouth may just have got him in some big trouble.

When you look at the way this investigation has been handled from the very start and all the obvious blunders and then take into consideration the input of Goncalo Amaral and Carlos Anjos, if this is the standard of policing in Portugal then is it any wonder the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine is in such a parlous state?

It is no further on than the day this little mite was abducted from her bed in Praia da Luz and it really is not good enough and in my opinion it is indefensible.

With this latest outburst from Carlos Anjos, it ties in with what has been happening all along and also ties in with what the president of Portugal's Bar Association criticised the police investigation, 'Antonio Marinho e Pinto' yesterday, that the PJ were in a "dead end and do not know how to get out of it" he also said Portugal's legal system was out of date.

Put these two statements with what was said a few weeks ago, the the PJ has better things to do than look for Madeleine (Carlos Anjos) and Alipio Ribeio and his boss saying that the PJ were too hasty in making the McCann's arguidos, i think it is all being said for a reason, the PJ are trying to cause the McCann's as much consternation as they can before they announce they are to lift the arguido status through a complete lack of evidence.

At the end of the day this is not about finding Madeleine, this is all about trying to save face over the PJ comprehensive failings to discover where Madeleine is or to make any real progress in this case at all.

Under Goncalo Amaral the PJ took a huge gamble and they lost, yet they still seem to fail to understand that they lost because of one point "the McCann's have been telling the truth and they are totally innocent of harming their daughter".

Or do the PJ actually know this? Does someone in authority in PDL know what happened to Madeline? Do they know where she is now?

If the PJ think this is just going to go away then they are grossly underestimating the McCann's and their totally life consuming burning need to find their daughter and the PJ are also believing the rubbish being printed in the some of the British press and the gutter press of Portugal and they are totally underestimating the support the McCann's have in Britain.

Off of the internet and blogs and the chat rooms, the greater British public are smelling one huge rat here and the pressure is beginning to mount on the PJ and the Portuguese government to hold a public inquiry in to the "comedy of errors" that is the investigation into the tragic disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

Time to hand this investigation over to a team of investigators that may be able to solve this case, even after almost one year of total incompetency.

Please give the files to the British police and let them take over, forget your pride PJ, a little girl's life is at stake.

Something tells me that this case is about to blow up in the PJ's faces and that what will be revealed will rock Portugal to the core.

In my opinion all this has been about concealing rather than revealing what happened to Madeleine and where sh is.

Gina said...

Hi Swedish Mum, glad we did not keep you awake all night otherwise you may have got up for a Vera Lynn and tonic (gin and tonic). There is a whole dictionary full of words I have posted at the end of yesterday's so if you get bored you can see some of the old versions and some new ones that have been added that I do not even know.

I am determined once I have finished my coffe to get on with some jobs that I do not want to do, but need to be done, so will be off soon but may find time to speak later. Hope all is well with you. It is not nice here today, very windy and just starting to rain :-(

SwedishMum said...

Gina,

I'm having a break in my weekly cleaning efforts myself (no thanks, no good cleaning tips from you, it's boring enough as it is - hope you understand my meaning, I don't mean that your tips are boring but the cleaning itself).

I think I may have the Vera Lynn and tonic tonight instead, in fact wouldn't mind that at all.

Oh, and btw we have lovely weather here ...

Gina said...

Rosie, it is my opinion that this reconstruction is meant for another purpose other than what one normally expects they are for.

I think the PJ want everybody to position themselves where they claimed they were at a given time, so they can ascertain whether it was infact possible to see what they said they saw etc etc. Also I firmly believe they have conflicting statements so if somebody has claimed that someone was not where they were said they were they can fight it out so to speak in situ. I really do not think it has anything to do with making a programme in order to give the public details. It is purely IMO to clarify matters.

You will not agree with this, but consider it as a possibility nonetheless

Gina said...

Swedish Mum, I may have a load of tips but that doesn't mean I practice what I preach, think I will go and get on with some things now. Bye all

Tulip said...

Ho hum Gina -- misunderstood again. If you read earlier posts here yesterday there were all kinds of jokes about the spelling of leaks, with leeks being the symbol of Wales. So when Marga posted about 'leeks' it was a funny coincidence. That's all.

Not that I have any time for that lady, but the joke was not her.

And I'm not one of those people who speak only English and expect everyone in other countries to do the same.

The 'reconstruction'. Personally I think it could well be a ruse to get the McCanns back on Portuguese soil while still arguidos. IMHO.

Sass said...

Hiya Tulip and SwedishMa

Just troll patrolling, but see Rosie is around. See you all later. Have to do the W word Aaaaaaagh!!!

Sass said...

WORK, that is!

Tulip said...

Oh and Gina ... if anyone on this blog has been kind and complimentary about foreign bloggers it's me. Ask Swedish.

So pull the other one.

SwedishMum said...

Rosie,

It may be true that neither "Team McCann" didn't leak the quote - but that doesn't necessarily mean that the PJ did. There are rumours flying around that the quote wasn't even from the police questionings. I - of course - don't know what's true here or who may be lying, but neither does anyone else. Apart fron the journalist in question - and he's not likely to reveal his source.

Must continue with my cleaning now.
Bye for now!

Gina said...

Tulip no big deal about the leeks etc. as I explained to Sass. To be honest I sometimes look at my posts AFTER I have posted them and think that some of you may wonder if I am still at school with the mistakes I make.

Regards the reason for the reconstruction. Let us just be totally reasonable in our thoughts about this. No point this late in the day doing a reconstruction for the normal reasons, so I revert to my previous post. You say it maybe just to get them back to Portugal. Well if that is the reason it is not then just a case of saying "got yet" and throwing them in the slammer and throwing away the key. They have to prove their guilt. If they have enough evidence to prove their guilt then they will have to charge them and apply assistance to bring those charges to court. Anyway, as I have said before, the McCanns are now so high profile even if they go back for a reconstruction, they are not going alone, they have enough lawyers and heaven knows who else to see that things are done correctly. I think they should go and get this mess cleared up once and for all.

Talking of clearing up a mess, think I should do just that and clean the mess I have here. Bl..dy dogs have paddled through again

Rosiepops said...

Morning Helen

Re Carlos Anjos and his wild outburst, don't for get this little gem;

"He lies with as many teeth as he has in his mouth. Finally we know what side truth is on."

What is amazing is that this man Carlos Anjos, is the PJ union spokesman!

He has shown himself in a totally unprofessional light many times during this case, but this time may just prove to be his downfall, methinks he may have opened his mouth just once too often and maybe about to be occupying the desk next to his mate Goncalo Amaral!

He has gov en Clarence Mitchell enough grounds to sue the backside off of him and personally I think Clarence Mitchell should do it.

How on earth could someone in in Carlos Anjos position allow himself to be quoted in a newspaper saying the things he said? It beggars belief!

Poor Madeleine deserved much better than this disgraceful set of circumstances, even the Goan police have acted in a more professional way than the Portuguese police! The Goan police having realised that a mistake had been made and realised what this set of circumstances had the propensity to do to Goa, acted swiftly to correct it.

I am at a total loss as to what the PJ thought they were doing with this investigation. In my opinion it all points to one massive cover up operation.

Rosiepops said...

PJ union spokesman said:

"He lies with as many teeth as he has in his mouth. Finally we know what side truth is on."

A lot of people have *always* known what side the truth is on Carlos and now that it has been announced that neither Kate and Gerry or Clarence Mitchell are responsible for these leaks, so are a lot of other people waking up to the knowing "what side the truth is on!"

Yesterday we had this leaking from the PJ about the leak, inferring that it was Metodo 3 doing the leaking and today we have PJ Carlos Anjos saying that it is Clarence Mitchell doing the leaking.

It appears that the bungling PJ cannot even get it straight between them just who it is they want to blame for leaking, before they talk or "leak" to the press.

Come on PJ you can't have it all ways, who do you think is responsible? M3 or Clarence Mitchell? Can't you even get this story right?

Truth of the matter probably is of course, that it was the PJ leaking and is part of their campaign of leaks, smears, lies and bizarre innuendos about killing theories, that have been consistently leaked throughout this investigation.

Strange though isn't it, that as long as all these leaks, smears, lies and bizarre innuendos were doing damage to the McCann's the PJ were content to let it all pass them by and use their archaic secrecy laws to hide behind, yet as soon as one of their leaks turned around and bit them on their backsides and backfired on them spectacularly, they lost no time in issuing a panicked knee jerk reaction to it and completely forgot about their secrecy laws!

Yes My Carlos Anjos union spokesman for the PJ " Finally we know what side truth is on." and it isn't on the PJ's side.

**What happened to Madeleine McCann?

**Where is Madeleine?

**What is the truth behind her disappearance?

**Who is scared in Praia da Luz?

**Who never expected this to make such a huge impact on the world's stage?

**Where are Madeleine's abductors?

**What have they done with Madeleine?

**What have the PJ done today to find Madeleine McCann, the little British 4 year old, who was callously abducted and stolen from her loving family while sleeping in her little bed on the last night of her holiday in Praia da Luz, Portugal?


For what it is worth, I make this pledge to the PJ - I will never shut up until it is discovered what has happened to Madeleine and she has been found and reunited with her loving family.

This is never going to go away and the truth will come out, so whoever knows anything about the abduction of Madeleine McCann, may just as well start talking now. Madeleine's abductors must be caught and the truth behind her abduction must be known, for the safety of every Portuguese child and every single child that goes on holiday in the Algarve in Portugal, no matter what their nationality is.

Beware Portugal, beware PJ, your sins will find you out.

Tulip said...

Gina, if I were the NcCanns I wouldn't trust the PJ further than I can spit an olive pip.

They could try anything, eg arrest me, as we know Amaral wanted last year.

Any reconstruction, to be of use, should have happened a year ago and they had that chance. Now they suddenly want to do it -- and not with actors either.

As it's not for TV -- which could conceivably still be a way to find Madeleine -- it seems that the PJ can insult and accuse the McC's as much as they want, and now expect them to do them a favour. A favour that helps the MCC's how? No chance is this an honest objective effort to solve the case -- they hope to spot some new inconsistency (which they will after all this time) as an excuse to nail them with.

And there they'd be, stuck in Portugal far from the twins and their supportive family.

I know what direction my middle finger would be pointing.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hi Tulip,

"Go swivel on that" springs to mind, lol.

I'm only popping in, I see Rosie is in fine fettle today.


Bye for now.

Sass said...

Tinks and Rosie

You have important mail!

Tulip said...

Yes, Rosie, at your best you're dynamic.

Ever thought of running for Parliament? Mind you we'd have to launch a special party just for you.

Rosiepops said...

Why should the McCann's go back to Portugal to aid a reconstruction?
Why on earth should they be put through this trauma? Haven't they been through enough?

It is not necessary for them to take part in this, it can be done quite competently with actors. I is totally bizarre and inhumanely insensitive to ask and to expect the McCann's to take part in a reconstruction.

But the truth of the matter is that the PJ probably know all of this and they probably also knew that the McCann's would refuse to take part, (for extremely valid reasons too).

However, I do not think that the PJ were ever seriously expecting the McCann's to take part in this reconstruction, in my opinion it was only announced at the sensitive time it was announced, in order to try and divert attention away from the spotlight on the McCann's, while they were in Brussels.

When this little ploy did not work, they then got really desperate and released their leak which they thought was their trump card, about "Madeleine crying" and as we all know this leak proved one PJ leak too many and backfired spectacularly on the PJ and ever since, they have been back peddling furiously to try and get themselves out of this mess.

Perhaps they should stop, because they are only succeeding in making things worse for themselves.

Rosiepops said...

Hi everyone,

Thank you, just thought I would try and see what is behind all these announcements.

Just going to check my mail!

Tulip said...

Ooops, 'forgetting my manners' again.

Hi all!

archer said...

Morning All

Very well said Rosie.

I cannot believe that Carlos Anjos would say such an outrageous thing!

"He lies with as many teeth as he has in his mouth. Finally we know what side truth is on"

I am not even sure I understand the second sentence!

This is the man who is Head of Portugal's Police Federation! I don't believe either that he would be able to say such a thing without it being sanctioned by someone from within Portugal's Judiciary. But whether it was sanctioned or not - he should lose his job over it.

As this case continues more and more questions come to light regarding the ethics of this police force. I am sure it is not just me that is asking them!

Gina - re your 1010 post. I see the merits of what you say, but am questioning very much the timing of all of this. I agree with Tulip's comments completely.



ps I lurve a sandwich with cheese and onion crisps inside and the bread thinly covered with Marmite!

Christabel said...

Morning Rosie, Sass,Tinks and Tulip,

Oh dear I see the famous other fat bloke has crawled out again.
What a short memory this numskull has.
Do you remember he said,
'We have more important problems than finding Madeleine', says top Portuguese policeman.
This is from a supposedly top cop, what a slimeball.

Christabel said...

Sorry morning Archer too, didn't see you there.

Here is the link to Carlos Anjos big mouth.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=512789&in_page_id=1811&ito=1490

Gina said...

Archer I am also suspicious of the timing but let us not forget that the McCanns trip to Brussels coincided with the PJ being in the UK anyway.

We all have different opinions on what the next move should be but to put your finger up at the PJ and telling them to swivel I do not see as the best way to prove ones innocence. Whether you trust them or not it is only they who can charge or release the arguido status. They cannot keep this up for ever, they have to do one or the other soon, but I am pretty convinced that aggreviated and ridiculing them is not the answer, neither am I suggesting bowing down to pressure. Hit them head on is my view with ok we will help with the reconstruction on the understanding that once it is done we are either charged or released. I thought the McCanns said they could take whatever was thrown at them so long as it helped to find their child. Well she is still missing, so do what you can to get everything focused back on that.

I know none of you agree with my approach on this, but I suppose I only base my views on the way I would react to such a situation and I certainly would be challenging the PJ head on and not giving them an cause to doubt me further. By that I mean, this refusal to go back is also shedding doubt in many peoples minds that perhaps it is because they just may be guilty after all

Tulip said...

Hi Archer. I think Carlos Anjos is the same as a trade union leader. Don't they always say whatever they like, regardless of the civil service/political authorities?

And as for that sandwich idea -- yes, YES, YESSSS!

Into the kitchen I go ...

Tinkerbell43 said...

Gina,

I haven't the time from work to respond in full to your post but picking on one point, if they were guilty, I hardly believe the mcCanns would have asked for a reconstruction in the first place when if there was anything to incriminate them, it would have been fresh in everyone's mind not over a year later.


Off again.

Tulip said...

Gina, I'm sure that 'what people think' is not the McCann's priority. If it were they'd be hiding under the sofa. I wasn't suggesting they physically give the Pj the finger -- but I'd sure do it in the privacy of my own home!

Yes they said they can take whatever is thrown at them -- if it helps to find Madeleine. I'm sure they know the PJ haven't got a snowball's chance of doing so. They aren't even trying. They can only lose by going along with the PJ's little games -- and they won't find Madeleine.

So how would you confront them? Exhausted with grief and anxiety, is Kate supposed to batter down the door in Portomao and scream 'Find Madeleine you b's or else ...'?

I'm sure Gonc and co would be petrified and jump to it. Not.

IMHO they are fighting back pretty well.

Gina said...

Tinks/Tulip I cannot explain without going into criticism of the McCanns so best I leave that subject where it is. Suffice it to say that whilst the amber alert system may be a good idea, I would not have "got myself exhausted" with that and trips to Washington, and left myself with no energy to return to the place where my child went missing and put the record straight. Call it selfish if you like, but my child would have come first, anything I could do to save others would have come second.

Because you are all adament that the PJ did not look for Madeleine in the beginning then what can I say, other than my sister saw the helicopters, searches etc. with her own eyes and was in a bar one night when the police were asking everybody all sorts of questions.

We will just have to agree to disagree on the who did what and who should do what issue.

I do most things the other way around from you anyway, you all seem to go off for a coffee and I come on with a coffee, which is now finished so I am off x

Gina said...

Hi Jojam I think I looked at that site ages ago and remember when you set up a blog there are templates to use so it is not uncommon for people to choose the same pattern. Have to go take care

archer said...

Gina

(sorry - had to do a job!!)

That's just it. I do question their ethics and accountability in this.( The pj) I think they too are unused to all of this and it really irks !

Hiding behind the handle of secrecy may have been just fine for them before little Madeleine McCann went missing from her bed in PDL but it is not fine now! Unfortunately past histories recently revealed does tend to cloud ones judgement, and we have been witness to a lot of that since this case began. Portugal will not like this at all, which is understandable. But why oh why have officers on this case remained there when they themselves are about to face a judge?

As` I said ethics and accountability! Where are they?

I acknowledge that they are the investigating officers and it is all dependant on them, but trust them, No I do not.

I don't mean to sound trite but all anyone is asking for is True Honest to God Justice for Madeleine and her family, and while they are at it, justice being seen to be done!

Jojam said...

Hi Gina,

Thanks, I expect you are right I had not come across that blog before.........no one seems to be commenting on it.

Have a good day

calcite51 said...

Morning all, IF the police are innocent of any leaks, then IMO they would be DEMANDING an INQUIRY. I have not heard of this happening - instead they are throwing mud.

As for the reconstruction, it is the DUMBEST idea I've heard in a long time - 11 months after. Do you remember where you were 11 months ago? The time to do a reconstruction was right after Madeleine went missing. It will not help to find Madeleine - the PJ's quit looking for her a long time ago.

calcite51 said...

Gina, everyone makes errors when typing - so don't worry about it. The one about the escape goat (instead of scapegoat) was really cute and we did have fun with that one.

Rosiepops said...

Gina

The McCann's visit to Brussels did NOT coincide with the PJ visit to the UK.

The PJ's visit to the UK coincided with the McCann's visit to Brussels!

You conveniently forget that the PJ have been coming here since last September and have been playing the hokey cokey with this visit for months.

This Brussels visit would have been arranged and planned months ago, long before the PJ finally announced which date they were to come to the UK on.

What a really illogical and irrational thing to accuse the McCann's of! I think this accusation speaks volumes, it shows how desperate the anti side of the argument has become.

What are the McCann's supposed to do put their lives on hold to please the PJ? Paulo Rebelo hasn't even had the bloody decency to call the McCann's and speak to them since he was made head of this investigation.

The words rude, discourteous, bloody minded, insensitive and inhumane spring to mind!

I do not expect the McCann's have put their middle finger up and told the PJ to swivel, so why you want to try and pin this on them is a mystery, although if they did do this who could blame them? I think that in the face of extreme emotional trauma and profound distress amid some of the most lurid headlines and the bizarre sensationalistic leaks coming from the PJ, the McCann's have actually acted with calm and dignity.

I am not sure I could have behaved in such an exemplary fashion as they!

If the PJ and it is feel aggravated and ridiculed then they only have themselves to blame for it, after all it is the PJ that have engineered these leaks and it is the PJ that started this with their bizarre leaks to the Portuguese gutter press. I do not feel an ounce of compassion for the PJ, I think they have behaved in a disgraceful unprofessional way and they have done this completely unprovoked, the question is why?

I believe that there are those in "authority" in Portugal who know what happened to Madeleine and know where she is now.

What we are seeing here is a posturing by the PJ, trying to deflect blame and searching questions away from themselves and they are panicking, because they know fully well this reconstruction was just a ruse, they were never serious and the leak about Madeleine was their trump card, both backfired and now they have no idea how to get out of their own stinking mess, the mess that the PJ created, when they decided to blame the parents instead of investigating Madeleine's abduction properly and bringing those responsible to book, the question I keep asking is why? Why would the PJ do this? Are they covering up?

They thought if they exerted enough pressure on the McCann's they would crumble and slink off quietly, but they should have heeded Kate McCann's words in one of her latter TV interviews, because she meant them.

Kate McCann said:

"We'll take everything thrown at us ti get Madeleine back"

The PJ completely misunderstood the steely reserve underneath those words.

No use making excuses for the PJ they have damaged their own reputation.

They live in a country where people are afraid of their police and afraid of their government and are afraid to speak out against injustice.

We however do not and we will speak out and we will not shut up, we will know what happened to Madeleine and she will be brought home!

archer said...

Calcite

Hi

I don't think a 'reconstruction' was ever really on the cards anyway. Tactics comes to mind!

Can you imagine one being done now?
PDL gearing up for its holiday-makers, the press etc etc. I think not. Being away on your holiday is hardly the time when you are making copious notes of when, where and what you did.

All the statements are in the hands of the pj, surely they can work that out? Err..

Tulip said...

Gina, nobody is saying the PJ didn't search in the beginning -- it's the way they gave up so quickly once they had made up their minds that we don't like.

As to returning to PDL to 'put the record straight' rather than going to Europe for the Amber Alert meeting, I think we've explained why we think that's the last thing they'd do. Not because they don't put Madeleine first, but because they know there'd be no point in doing so. Besides, the PJ could have questioned them again in the UK but chose not to do so. So how would their being in PDL be any different?

Plus, there is a big difference in stress levels for an emotionally fragile person between doing something positive at a conference for the sake of other kids and going back to re-enact the most horrifying experience of their life (with a strange child playing Madeleine?)one year after the event, when nobody can really remember details any more. And for what? To help the PJ to demonstrate they are 'doing something'? Do K & G owe the PJ help with their PR?

Rosiepops said...

Jojam


Hi, obviously it has been created by the same person and I have no wish to get int another blog wars with that sneak and liar as I can prove her to be, we now have the evidence of her lies. (Or should I say *his lies*.

Sorry I have deleted your post from here because we are not going to advertise her/his lies for her and I do not want this blog pulled into another war with her/him or his/her lies.

calcite51 said...

Archer - I agree completely - I really believe the reconstruction is a ploy.

I think the PJ's are trying to set up the McCanns. If they (the McCanns and the rest of the group) agree to the reconstruction, then there is every chance that errors will be made (11 months ago) which will give ammunition to the PJ's; if the McCanns & co. refuse to go along with the reconstruction, the Pj's being the unprofessional bunch they are (imo) will point fingers and say what are they trying to hide? See, they won't cooperate.

Tulip said...

Calcite, hi.

Precisely.

Jojam said...

Hi Rosie,

I can quite understand you deleting the link........no problem I don't want to start another war.

calcite51 said...

have a good day everyone - I'm off to work.

Rosiepops said...

Jojam

Thanks for being so understanding, I didn't want to offend you x

Rosiepops said...

Hi archer and calcite

I don't think a reconstruction was ever on the cards either. I would have liked to see their faces if the McCann's called the PJ's bluff and said yes we will com in June, just as the tourist industry is gearing up, the Portuguese government would have had kittens!

As it is I think they are praying that the McCann's will NOT go back for the anniversary of little Madeleine's abduction.

When you think of it, I suspect that the PJ's visit to the UK was actually timed for now and the leaks timed too for maximum impact, so Kate and Gerry would not do as they once planned and return to Portugal in May to confront the PJ about their arguido status.
Make no mistake this could be the real reason why this pointless visit to the UK every took place in the beginning!

After all what other purpose would it have served?

As for this stupid rumour that JT had changed her statement, yet more leaks from a "PJ source", I note they didn't bother denying this one either, wonder why?

No wonder is it really, they did not deny it because the PJ thought it would add further pressure and damage to Kate and Gerry.

And the PJ have the nerve to act all wounded because of one single leak that backfired on them?

Perhaps the PJ should ask for a public inquiry if they are so upset and sure that this leak did not come from them?

I would back their calls for a full and open public inquiry into the handling of this investigation and the leaks.

Tinkerbell43 said...

If I was K & G, there is no way I would return to PDL for a reconstruction. A reconstruction 12 months after the event, is not, imo, going to be productive.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, why would they want to help a process that has done nothing but try to put them behind bars. IMO, the PJ have hindered this family for long enough, they should release them from their status and let them concentrate on trying to find their daughter.

Gina said...

ayRosie 13.03 The reason you and I will never agree is because you say things as if you know them as facts. Unless you are privy to information that is no in the public domain, your statements written as fact and really nothing more than opinions which of course like everybody else you are entitled to. You seem under the apprehension that I am anti McCann and pro PJ, well I do not think you will find a single post from me saying that I think the McCanns are guilty, but I have always been critical of the media circus that they created which I considered wrong and still do. Regards the PJ, unless you are privy to actual reports you know no more than I do what they are doing and why.

I remember in the DX days whenever someone said something that sounded factual they were asked to provide a link, which they either could not, or it ended up to be yet another "source" newspaper report. You seem to be under the impression as I understand that you think Alsabella's site was run by Gonc and you claim to have proof of that. Well all I can say about that is you have either lost the plot altogether or you are way ahead of me, because I never saw anything to lead me to that conclusion. It is so easy to say we know something if we know we do not have to prove it.

It is your opinion that the PJ timed the visit to the UK to coincide with the McCanns going to Brussels. How do you know that, for heavens sake we all knew (although some chose not to accept it) about all the nonsense with the letters to permission etc.

As I said in my post, one word about the McCanns on here is taboo, fair enough, but by the same token ripping into a police force who as yet have not finished their enquiry is also wrong. If they have made a mistake, the world will know about it soon enough and there is no way they can cover up those mistakes. It has taken 8 months to find Rhys Jones killer which was a much simpler task than this complexed case but nobody is blaming the police for that. These things take time.

Tulip 13.13 If you accept the PJ were searching for Madeleine in the beginning then sure you have to accept they went along with the abduction theory which IMO blow the notion that they did not go along with it to save their tourist industry. Something made them change their mind and we are waiting to know what that something was.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Gina,

There is nothing to blame the police for in the Rhys Jones case. That is a ridiculous comparison, plus I think you under estimate the complexity of that case.

However, this is not about any other case in any other country, we are here, on this blog, discussing a little girl being abducted from her bed in PDL. The PJ are centre to this case and therefore they are going to be the subject of much discussion, a lot of which they have provided us with.

Jojam said...

Hi Rosie,

I found the following blog interresting.............please delete link if you wish.........I won't take offense.

http://madeleine-mccann-blog.blogspot.com/

Gina said...

Tinkerbell I was merely pointing out how long cases can take before any action is taken, that is all

Tulip said...

Gina, they didn't search for very long, and the way they searched looked as if they thought she had just wandered off.

Why did they change? Imo, because when they realised it wasn't going to be easy to find her, they knew that their failure to do so would really mean an abduction, threatening the local tourist trade and their reputation. The McCanns were the most convenient 'escapegoats'. The top brass were asking questions ...

By then remember, it had become clear that they had messed up the 'crime scene' big time (few dispute that) so they had to come up with a new theory that didn't involve an abductor.

They might even have believed that Kate and Gerry were responsible -- these funny foreigners with odd habits.

But Kate and Gerry themselves CALLED for the dogs to be brought in. Having found what they (the PJ) thought were promising forensic traces they (the PJ) were furious with the FSS when they turned out to be inconclusive.

Obviously we don't KNOW anything. But that's the most likely imo.

Tulip said...

Tina, the Rhys Jones case was greatly complicated by the silence of the gangs!

In that case, the police were taking plenty of action behind the scenes, they were not accusing anyone publicly, they weren't leaking, they were systematic and they were waiting. It paid off.

Off topic sorry.

Tinkerbell43 said...

LOL, Tulip is your post for me or Gina :0)

Tulip said...

Tee hee, it was for Gina! Those pesky fingers ...
X

Gina said...

Tulip if we take all the information that we have or think we have and look at it and form whatever opinion we want to the bottom line for me is - No matter what motives the PJ may or may not have had for making the McCanns arguidos, and no matter how long they string this out, eventually they know there is no way out for themselves. They have either screwed up in which case there is no way they can cover that, or they haven't in which case the McCanns (or someone else) will be charged. IMO there are no if's and but's about it, it is one or the other.

Going back to writing a report I must get finished today. adios

Tinkerbell43 said...

Tulip,

It may help if you put your middle finger down now ;o)

Rosiepops said...

Hi Jojam

No that is fine, no problem with that at all.

Rosiepops said...

Who is Tina? pmsl

Rosiepops said...

Gina

What have I said that I have stated was a fact where it isn't?

Rosiepops said...

Gina

Forgot to say that yes I am under the apprehension that you are anti McCann, this is because this is the way you come across, I don't think it is just me that thinks this either.

You are a bit bombastic in your posts when talking about the McCann's, to say the very least. You say you have not said they are guilty but your language and prose says otherwise!

Rosiepops said...

Huh Gina!

where did I say that I had proof that Arsabliar was Gonc? I think you should maybe read a little more carefully before you pass comment, I sad that I have proof that arsebliar had lied and I have have, several times.

Gina said...

ayRosie 13.03 The reason you and I will never agree is because you say things as if you know them as facts. Unless you are privy to information that is no in the public domain, your statements written as fact and really nothing more than opinions which of course like everybody else you are entitled to. You seem under the apprehension that I am anti McCann and pro PJ, well I do not think you will find a single post from me saying that I think the McCanns are guilty, but I have always been critical of the media circus that they created which I considered wrong and still do. Regards the PJ, unless you are privy to actual reports you know no more than I do what they are doing and why.

I remember in the DX days whenever someone said something that sounded factual they were asked to provide a link, which they either could not, or it ended up to be yet another "source" newspaper report. You seem to be under the impression as I understand that you think Alsabella's site was run by Gonc and you claim to have proof of that. Well all I can say about that is you have either lost the plot altogether or you are way ahead of me, because I never saw anything to lead me to that conclusion. It is so easy to say we know something if we know we do not have to prove it.

It is your opinion that the PJ timed the visit to the UK to coincide with the McCanns going to Brussels. How do you know that, for heavens sake we all knew (although some chose not to accept it) about all the nonsense with the letters to permission etc.

As I said in my post, one word about the McCanns on here is taboo, fair enough, but by the same token ripping into a police force who as yet have not finished their enquiry is also wrong. If they have made a mistake, the world will know about it soon enough and there is no way they can cover up those mistakes. It has taken 8 months to find Rhys Jones killer which was a much simpler task than this complexed case but nobody is blaming the police for that. These things take time.

Tulip 13.13 If you accept the PJ were searching for Madeleine in the beginning then sure you have to accept they went along with the abduction theory which IMO blow the notion that they did not go along with it to save their tourist industry. Something made them change their mind and we are waiting to know what that something was.

Rosiepops said...

Gina

yes it is my opinion that the PJ timed this to coincide with the McCann's visit to Brussels, and you said that their visit to Brussels timing was suspicious, no it wasn't, the PJ have been saying they were coming here for months, first they were then they were not. There was weeks when they were blaming the British government for Portugal's failure to deliver the rogatory letters, when the rogatory letters had not even been written and this was admitted by the Portuguese Attorney Generals Office, so what I thought had little to do with it. also I have never said that the PJ were not coming here for definite, I said that I wasn't holding my breath and I wasn't because of all the false leaks to the press before hand.

I also said that their visit over here would probably be a complete waste of time and money and that looks likely to be the case too.

You cast aspersions on the McCann's Brussels timing and then get upset when the obvious is pointed out!

It is obvious that any visit that incorporated a visit to and an address of the European parliament was going to have to be planned well in advance of it happening, a lot longer than the notice given by the PJ that they had finally bought their plain tickets!

Gina said...

Rosie I got it wrong, just looked back at your post.

Rosiepops said...
Hi Everyone

Just a quickie, must go and finish a few chores and put the dinner on.

Gina,

Just read that you are under the impression that Christabel thinks you are Gonc? I can tell you I know who she thinks is Gonc and I agree with her, it may be and this is not silly wild guesses, this is over something absolutely concrete that just could not have come from anywhere else and directly concerning this one person and it is definitely NOT you.

Back soon!

17 April 2008 18:38

You only both think you know who Gonc is and yes I presumed you meant Alsa. Well if you think a PJ officer has time or a desire to sit and blog that is up to you.

"
You cast aspersions on the McCann's Brussels timing and then get upset when the obvious is pointed out!"

I did not say that at all. I said they had to wait for permission which you do not agree with anyway.

I have never denied being anti McCann but as I have repeatedly said it has nothing to do with me thinking they are guilty I am still on the fence on that one. I dislike the extent of the marketing and the fact that their own situation, which I saw coming by becoming celebrities, has pushed Madeleine of the front page and put their plight on it instead.

You totally misunderstand me and always have and to be honest I am not going to change my opinion and neither are you so there is no point talking about this anymore

Tinkerbell43 said...

Gina,

Can I ask you a question, because you are not the first person to say this, in what way have they become celebrities, because I really can not see this ?

Thanks.

Gina said...

Tinks, I used the word celebrity because it is the one commonly used. (Celebrity - well known person). Not all well known persons are film stars etc. they are just of media interest and if I could be bothered to sit any think about it, which I cannot, I could list a lot of people who sort media attention and then regretted it later. Once the media know that that persons face sells papers, if they have nothing much to say they will drum something up from somewhere and it is not always pleasant. Nothing wrong with some publicity to get your plight made public, but not knowing where to stop is a grave mistake and IMO they have made that grave mistake. Sueing the papers might make them rich, but some mud will stick no matter what the outcome. If that does not bother them, then ok, they have done the right thing ITO

Off now cheerio

Rosiepops said...

Gina

Yes well when I say I think something, it means I think, not 'it is'.

The laws of libel prevent me from saying what I think may be the truth and as Goncalo Amaral is this man's name I have to be careful what I write. But have no fear it will all come out, hopefully sooner rather than later.


You do not appear to be on the fence Gina, not by any stretch of the imagination, I have read posts of yours that have been anything but on the fence, I am not one for saving posts so cannot prove it.

By the way I am not trying to change your mind or the mind of anyone else, I just reply to you when I see something I think should be replied to.

The use of the word celebrity for a start, I see you use this word quite a lot.
They used the press, yes they did, but they did not use it to turn themselves into celebrities, they used the press to raise Madeleine's profile, as they were advised by many people with experience to do!

I am honest enough to say that I would do exactly the same. If the PJ did not want them to talk to the press in the way they did, why did they not appoint them a family liaison officer? Why did they not advise them what to do and when to do it, instead of just leaving these poor people to get on with the appeal themselves?

More PJ errors.

Gina said...

Rosie whatever :-)

Mandz said...

Hi All,

IMO if they showed this reconstruction to the public world wide then everyone would obviously get an insight into who was where.. what time the police turned up at and who phoned the police etc which would contradict their leaks etc.

It would give us a chance to decide for ourselves what we think happened which might lean towards the abductor theory (I bet it would IMO) which the PJ would not want. They have in my opinion spent enough time trying to sway public opinion (McCann’s did it) with leaks never mind allowing the public to watch the events unfold and see for themselves.

How would they start off the reconstruction? Would it be when K& G tucked maddie & other two into bed? That would go against their theory of what happened.

Gina said...

Ps Rosie

Do I think the McCanns had anything to do with Madeleine disappearance - The could have

Do I think she was abducted - She may have been

Do I think she is still alive - It is possible

Do I think the PJ screwed up - They may have

Do I think the PJ have evidence - They may have


THAT IS ON THE FENCE AMIGA

Rosiepops said...

Gina,

Why shouldn't they sue papers? The business with the Daily Express was a token and done as a warning to other papers to stop printing lies about them, if they really wanted to sue, they would have done it properly and if money was their objective they could have got infinitely more than £500.000, they could have got millions! So I do not think money came into it at all, they wanted to stop the Express group printing the scurrilous stories and leaks from the PJ, money was not their objective.

You see yet another time you are accusing them of doing something for a particular reason that is obviously untrue. By the way, their £500.000 did not make them rich, it went into the Find Madeleine fund, so again you are purposefully giving a false impression and it is this kind of thing that annoys many people.

Rosiepops said...

Gina

When you put it like that, I would agree, but then that is not in your usual bombastic style is it?

AMIGA

Gina said...

Mandz, I think you have got it. That is precisely the point I have been making. This reconstruction is nothing to do with showing it to find Madeleine, IMO it is about finding out who was where and when and resolving differing statements. Once that is established then it can be worked out exactly what had happened and IMO none of this would be necessary if someone had not lied in the first place. I am sure someone has lied, do not know who, but it has made all the statements conflict and getting to the truth even harder.

Rosiepops said...

Hi Mandz,

I would agree with that. A reconstruction made by the Crimewatch team may just help, even after all this time, we have seen this type of thing produce results on our TV on cold cases.

And for sure it would help people to actually see what happened, but it is for this reason that I think the PJ do not want this reconstruction made public, the PJ want it for their own purposes (whatever they are), this is why I do not think it would do any good because no one would get to see it and I think this may be the position of Kate and Gerry too.

If the reconstruction was made for national TV and was to serve the purpose of jogging the memories of people that were there, then I think the McCann's would agree.

But the McCann's still do not need to take part, this could quite easily be done by actors and actually it should be, or this would be far too distressing for these people.

But I do not think this was ever in the minds of the PJ, I think this was all a publicity stunt designed to cause the McCann's maximum ebarrassment at a very sensitive time.

But it backfired on the PJ as people sussed what they were up to immediately, this is why I think they launched their trump card aboout Madeleine crying when they did.

Gina said...

Ok Rosie you win. You are trying to paint a picture of me that suits your purpose. I never said they should not sue, I don't care if they sue, I said the high profile has IMO damaged their image and mud will stick no matter what. If you and they do not have a problem with that fine, I would hate it myself.

If you feel I am bombastic ok, I do not feel I am, I am just outspoken and whilst I consider others opinions I am not prepared to agree with them if I do not just to win brownie points.

Time to call it a day and only post on what you call TWS, where you will find I don't agree with them all either-

Rosiepops said...

The only one that has come forward to say something different apparently is ONE person and that is the waiter!

I would have some questions for the waiter, and one would be, "what were you doing standing there where you definitely should not be?"

Rosiepops said...

Gina

I am not trying to paint a picture of you, I am just saying it as it is.

I note that you always run off when you cannot answer anyone.

See you sometime x

Gina said...

Rosie I do not run off as you put I am just intelligent enough to known when to call it a day.

Rosiepops said...
Gina

I am not trying to paint a picture of you, I am just saying it as it is.

As it is in your opinion which in my opinion you often get wrong so what is the point of keep going over and over it. If you want to fill your blog with boo hoo off she goes again or whatever feel free, ran away couldn't answer the question feel free. Not sure what the question is that I am supposed to be running from anyway. I have answered every post (I think) that has been addressed to me.

Mandz said...

Hi Rosie!

Exactly Rosie!
Why would they not just use actors and actresses I mean they have the statements so act it out so to speak? I agree with Tulip in my opinion they want them there for other purposes and if I were them I would stay away because of the unknown…

Rosiepops said...

Gina

I thought you had gone!

Talking about making money, what do you think about Robert Murat suing papers to make millions out of poor little Madeleine? Now he is doing this for money.

Robert Murat reminds me of the ex Conservative cabinet minister Jonathan Aitkin phenomena and like Aitkin, Murat should be careful that he does not fall on the;

"sword of bent and twisted journalism."

Tinkerbell43 said...

Gina,

The way I see it, TWS never criticises the PJ, which for want of a better word suits you and therefore you are not going to cross swords with anyone.

They also love to criticise the McCanns on every angle, some of that criticism you share.

Therefore you are not really confrontational with anyone over there.

If you said to them, with the greatest respect you should not accuse the Mccanns of killing Madeleine when you have no proof, I think you will find you will start to get a frosty reception.

I may be wrong but thats how I see it.

Rosiepops said...

Mandz,

yes they should stay away, because if this was not a publicity stunt set up by the PJ, then the Pj have ulterior motives.

What a bungling load of Keystone Kops they are making themselves look.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Mandz / Rosie,

I still maintain, if the timelines was of a major concern they wouldn't have left it 11 months before reinterviewing.

But I agree, if the reconstruction is for the purpose of timelines, then they have the statements and there is no reason why they couldn't use Actors.

Rosiepops said...

Gina

Tinks last post is exactly right! you are never confrontational on TWS, this is why you get on okay over there.

But look at what happened to Bianca when she had the bottle to question these leaks coming out of the PJ, she was accused of being a clone etc!

Rosiepops said...

Tinks

Exactly! And if it were timelines, why did the PJ return home one day early and why did they not ask to question Kate and Gerry while they were over here?

Gina said...

Tinkerbell, 18.22 point taken.

You are right I do not get into confrontation over there because I do not question anything related to who did what, just comment on whatever the latest news is. Obviously I get into trouble over here because I have an opinion on the McCanns. However do not forget that they all know where I am coming from (or some do) because they read this blog also, so there is nothing stopping them as Marga did, questioning something I said on here, when I am on there, if you see what I mean.

Gina said...

PS Tinks, be fair, If I said to them they should not question the McCanns it would be ignored in the same way as I said to you all you should not question the PJ- Not a lot of point doing it is there

Tinkerbell43 said...

Gina,

I was just making the point, on here you did ask us with the greatest respect to hold fire blaming the PJ until there was proof.
(I cant remember on what point now)

But I have never seen you actually say anything like that on the other side.

I suppose what I'm saying is, you've never really put them to the test and I think thats the difference.

Gina said...

Rosie, just saw your post re Murat, well IMO I am against anybody making money out of Madeleine with films, books, documentaries etc. However if Murat is innocent of anything to do with her disappearance he has as much right as anybody else to sue and his reputation has been damaged too. Up until (if he is innocent) he has complied exactly with the arguido status, no spokesperson etc. (except from an interview from Mum), but I think if he does start talking he will go for the throat of any who have pointed the finger at him

Now if I have missed any other posts I am sorry but I have to go out now

Gina said...

Tinks, I do not feel I need to put them to the test, I have am waiting to see how good or bad the PJ are, how does anybody else know they have no proof one way or the other so why ask them- Sorry got to go late

Tinkerbell43 said...

Gina,

I know you have to go, but I think you have missed my point. Never mind, catch you another time.

Bye.

Mandz said...

Hi All,

The PJ in my opinion were well out of their depth…

Tinks,

You were dead right the other day when you said how quickly the PJ reacted with the leak statement – fastest time ever for them oh that along with the report about the 100% DNA crap then they had to go on record and retract? Also their head of PJ went on TV and admitted that his junior officers were leaking which I had to remind Alsa&Co however strange Alsa did not even know this man’s name…

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hey Mandz,

They weren't slow in pulling Ribeiro over the coals either when he made his infamous "too hasty" comment.

When it comes to discrediting them, they can move when it suits them.

helenm said...

Hi folks,

See you have been busy today. Fingers!!!(dedos) kept flying ove the keyboards. Taken me ages to catch up. You may berate me but I am doing Claudia a favour!!!LOL just visited TWS and allegedly the lawyer for Leonora Cipriano has been arrested for drug offence. Sooooo many coincidences I don't think.!!

Mandz said...

Hey Tinks,

I was not aware the functional ability would allow for such speed..!

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hi Helen,

Dont tell me and the arresting officer just happens to be.........
I was gonna say you couldn't script but unfortunately you could!

Mandz said...

Exactly Helen & Tinks

We could predict for tomorrow!!

helenm said...

Tinks,
Well he was head of the drugs section wasn't he?

Tinkerbell43 said...

Helen,

You took the words right out of my mouth!!!

Mandz said...

I bet they are furious they cant get to CM or Philomena McCann..

Off for tea....

helenm said...

Mandz, don't believe you, Corries on isn't it?

Rosiepops said...

Helen

How convenient to be arrested for a drug offence?

Who arrested him do you know? apparently one of the officers due to appear in court charged with concealing evidence about the alleged torture and confession of Leonor Cipriano, is no other than Goncalo Amaral and Goncalo Amaral was or may be still is part of the drug squad in Portugal.

It was also muted that Portuguese police were gunning all out to get a conviction in the McCann case because they knew they were going to lose the Leonor Cipriano case.

Now of course they know that it is very unlikely that they are going to win either of these cases, looks like they are gunning for Grade who is probably a soft target and because of his connections to the 6 police officers who are due to stand trial very soon.

Among them Goncalo Amaral and Paulo Cristovao.

It seems highly suspect to me!

helenm said...

Copied from TWS

It was just on TV. The guy was arrested by GNR (our more rural police force) when he was visiting two inmates in Odemira prison, where Leonor is serving her sentence. He had anfetamines (enough for more than 40 individual portions) and ecstasy and he was, apparently, trying to smuggle it into the prison. That's what you can call helping your clients!!!

Rosiepops said...

Gina

Well exactly the same should apply to the McCann's, only more so as they are being slurred, smeared against, lied about, what has Murat ever suffered? I have not seen anywhere where he has been directly accused of anything, personally I have only ever said this man has questions to answer and in my opinion he does.

He had better have some answers too, because taking action like he is he had better be 100% on the straight and narrow because the press pack will be all out to get him.
Look at what they done to Aitkin!

Trying to make millions out of Madeleine is apparently "wonderful" on that site you extol the virtues of.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Helen,

I have to say I'm surprised he wasnt handing out anti-depressants as probably half the in-mates in there are innocent, lol.

Rosiepops said...

Helen

How very convenient, personally I do not believe he did this, why would he? He knows perfectly well that the police would be waiting for him to make one false move!

I am very interested to see what he has to say about this, I bet he says they were planted on him!

Oh my how convenient, how very very convenient, especially when the PJ's reputation is shot to pieces and they must be in a really bad mood.

Rosiepops said...

Tinks

pmsl

Especially if their prosecuting officer was Goncalo Amaral!

In my opinion of course!

Tulip said...

OK, I admit it, I had to give my middle finger a LONG rest.

I've read the recent posts on here and have to agree.

I know I'm an idiot but what is pmsl -- sounds like a kind of PMS??
And this ROTFLIMAO thing that keeps cropping up. Forget the Cockney slang, how about a blog glossary?

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hi Tulip,

PMSL - P... my self laughing.
ROFL - Roll on floor laughing.
ROFLMAO - Roll on floor laughing my
a... off.

helenm said...

Tulip,

PMSL = p.....d myself laughing

ROTFLIMAO can only guess
= rolling on the floor laughing

Can't figure the rest out!!

Sass said...

'Ello, 'ello, 'ello

How is everyone doing tonight?

helenm said...

Hi Sassy,

See you were W word today.
So was I..... WALKING on the beach!!!!

Sass said...

Our 'Ell

I am SO jealous! Tomorrow, if the weather is nice, I might take a walk in the wood behind the house, but naturally because it is the weekend, the chances are that it will be lousy! Like a Bank Holiday in Britain!

helenm said...

Sass don't be too jealous, we have heavy rain and winds 30mp.h mane.

Rosiepops said...

Helen

Would that be before or after Gonc goes for his lunch?

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hey Sass,

Good to see you, have you heard the latest news on Cipriano case, allegedly the lawyer representing Leonora has been arrested for drug offences!

Rosiepops said...

Hi Sass
not very inventive are they the PJ?

helenm said...

Roseeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!ROFL
hubbies friend thinks I've gone mad!

Sass said...

Hiya Tinks

So she had a real chance then! What a complete pig's ear of a case! Unbelievable!

Hiya Rosie

Helen - sounds like the weather forecast for tomorrow here, too!

Sass said...

Helen

What do you mean "gone"???

Tinkerbell43 said...

Sass,

Its our forecast too, so we're all in the same boat!

Tulip said...

Thank you for the information Helen!

Christabel said...

Evening everyone,

I notice the lawyer for the Cipriano case has been arrested for drug offences.
How very convenient at a crucial time in the case.
It seems he is as bigger thorn in the PJ sides as the McCann's are, he won't lie down and roll over either.

Sass said...

Hiya Tulip and Christabel

Christabel said...

Hi Sass,
I saw your derogatory remark regarding Britain and the weather on a Bank Holiday, is that not exo whatsit ?

Sass said...

Christabel

What's "exo whatsit" mean!!???

Tulip said...

Could XENOPHOBIC be the X word you're looking for?

Sass said...

Tulip

No idea!

Christabel said...

Ta Tulip
that was it, I put ex instead of xe, I'm getting as bad as Rosie lol !

Sass said...

Christabel, you plonker! You been reading Vile's to come out with stuff like that?!

Tulip - how did you work that out?! I had absolutely no idea!

helenm said...

Just visited ST's blog, take a look at comment, 15th April, 2300hrs on first article. Haven't seen this before, don't know whether it's a hoax.

helenm said...

Sassy, never a truer word said in jest!!!ROFL

Sass said...

Hiya Helen

No idea, either. The fact that an Anonymous sent it puts me off somewhat!

helenm said...

I agree Sassy. However very well written, IMHO of course!!!

Tulip said...

That post on Supertroll is probably a fake, IMHO.

Sass, don't know, can't even do crosswords.

Christabel said...

Sass,
I don't think so, not enough sick bags for that lol.

See Tulip knew what I meant,you must keep up Sass lol.

Sass said...

Helen

You're right, it certainly is well written, but anything sent by an "anonymous" is immediately suspicious for me!

Sass said...

Christabel

One of the nutters (IMHO of course :-)) on the 3 Arguidos thinks we are writing in code! What you wrote will probably push someone over the edge!

Christabel said...

Sass sorry,
Have I blown our cover lol !
You can't push anyone over the edge when its too late anyway.

Shall we play OXO ?

Sass said...

By the way Christabel

The flashing bedknobs have said hello to the Portuguese eagle.

Rosiepops said...

I just read this on Supertroll's site, if this is true, you could not make this up.
Margarida Barroso Wife of the President of the European Commission.
This just gets weirder and weirder, everything seems to be connected in Portugal, just what is going on there?

"Anonymous said...
Cristovao has been removed as head of the Portuguese Missing & Exploited Children's organisation.

He started at the end of last summer and immediately stated they wouldn't be looking for Maddy because the PJ knew she was dead. Funnily enough, the person taking over is the wife of Barosso, currently president of the EU."

18 April 2008 21:24

Christabel said...

Wow Sass thats great,
any broomsticks?

Just had a look on Supertrolls site and saw this fandabbydosy news.

Cristovao has been removed as head of the Portuguese Missing & Exploited Children's organisation.

He started at the end of last summer and immediately stated they wouldn't be looking for Maddy because the PJ knew she was dead. Funnily enough, the person taking over is the wife of Barosso, currently president of the EU

Christabel said...

Snap Rosie,
keep off my computer please lol.

Sass said...

Christabel

Yup three of them - and the best news of all - the baguette has talked!

Rosiepops said...

Sass

I thought they were all nutters that wrote on the 3 A's?

I hear that 2345 now posts on there because she thinks that everyone has been cloned on Viles?

Rosiepops said...

Christabel

I got there first!

pretty odd though isn't it?

Rosiepops said...

Christabel

No we do not play OXO but rather 'hangman'.

Sass said...

Rosiepops

2345 seems to reckon that CM has taken over Vile's blog. Apparently he has cloned the regular contributors and it's all in the hands of the police!!! But that's not the end of it! Got an e-mail today from someone pointing to a comment made by CelticCarla who has blamed us for all that! According to her we are the culprits!

Some people need so much help.

Rosiepops said...

Tinks

Thanks but I do not fancy being in the same boat as Gonc, it may suddenly become jet propelled.

Helen, you are mad that is why they think it! pmsl

Rosiepops said...

Sass

How come this is our fault has CC been taking the same medication as 2345?

Sass said...

Rosie

Reckon I might know who the prescribing doctor is!

Christabel said...

Rosie and Sass,

Do you think it might be a Clown (Clone) lol.
Hope you get that Sass.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Oops sorry all, crashed out. I'll say goodnight as I have to be up early.

See you tomorrow, take care xxx

Sass said...

Christabel

Yes ta!

Sass said...

Night Tinks!

Rosiepops said...

It is obvious that poor woman needs help, why on earth wouldn't Vile listen, we have been telling her for weeks that 2345 was ill, yet they encouraged her and last week some were even telling her that she was so good she should become an investigator for the PJ!

None of them had the sense to realise the woman isn't well, but then they do not recognise that vile herself is unwell either, so why are we surprised?

Anything goes as long as it is as anti McCann as it can get.

But if notdoc and his alta ego *psychologist* Southerncross were worth anything at all, surely they would have recognised what we have been recognising for weeks now?

But that is assuming of course that they are the professionals they say they are and that as we well know is extremely debatable!

Mind you the poor woman will hardly be noticeable amid the contributors on the 3 A's, they are all barking mad on there!

helenm said...

Regardin Paulo Christovao, a minha amiga Claudia (waves) left me the following on TWS

'Here is the portuguese link where anyone can see that Paulo Pereira Cristóvão wasn't taken from the Association.
http://ww1.rtp.pt/noticias/index.php?article=337849&visual=26&rss=0

Helen (waves) can take it to her Portuguese language teacher (just like she did with some Portuguese posts I and Alsabella exchanged) and confirm it.

I can confirm this without the referral to my professora.

Rosiepops said...

Tinks

Good night sleep well and it lands at dawn!

Take care.

helenm said...

Nite Tinks, sleep well

I have decided that seeing as I am so mad that I will take my services to the 3 A's site (maybe I will be appreciated there?)

P.S. can anyone give me directions?

Christabel said...

Helen,

good luck to you and all the best.
I hope they appreciate you over there lol.

Not sure if you are that far gone yet though IMHO.

Rosiepops said...

Helen

I do not bother reading the nutters paradise, if I wanted fiction on their level I would read nursery rhymes, only that would be a bit above them too.

It is obvious however that they cannot survive without reading this blog, this is why they keep sending Doppel over here to cause trouble, they are pathetic.

Any way is he still currently employed as head of this unit or not? If not how did he lose his position? because if you Google Margarida Barroso she comes up in that capacity!

Sass said...

HelenM

You'll probably be worshipped, not praised! Turn left at the straitjacket!

Rosiepops said...

Helen

Go straight to Viles and you will be beamed up from there, the welcoming committee will be a debriefing from Mrs Consecutive Numbers!

helenm said...

The article that is cited is dated today, and shows him as director.

helenm said...

Ok I'm coming back Mrs Consecutive numbers is more than I can deal with, IMHO of course!!!

Tulip said...

Night everyone

helenm said...

Nite ladies, I'm off. See you mane.
Sleep well.

Rosiepops said...

OK Helen, I'll tell Mrs consecutive Numbers to put her torch away!
"We ask the questions - not you"

Still odd that Margarida Barroso is head? makes it all even more suspect in my opinion, why would she allow herself to become involved with the likes of him?

I would say that she is allowing herself to become compromised, especially if he is found guilty and why would anyone want to associate with a person that pimps money out of missing children?

Rosiepops said...

Night Tilip, Night Helen

sleep well take care.

Helen be careful of Gonc he has been on the beans!

Sass said...

Night Helen and Tulip

Just lot my s*ddin' Internet connection.

helenm said...

Rosie, was Christovao president before or has he always been director?

Sassy, lost mine earlier as well.

Sass said...

I'm off now, too!

See ya!

Athena said...
This comment has been removed by the author.

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