Monday, 14 April 2008

Brits love to torture a 'bad mother'

By Melanie Reid

Thanks To China For Submitting This Report

In a long media career, the persecution of Kate McCann is the cruellest thing I have seenMelanie Reid How many centuries of accumulated spite and misogyny, I wonder, went into the latest twist in the Madeleine McCann saga. Did the British television presenters feel the remotest twinge of conscience as they sensationally reported - second-hand via a Spanish television station - the leaks from the Portuguese police portraying Kate McCann in the worst possible light, as a mother who had left her children to cry? And did Britain's tabloid editors, themselves presumably sons of mothers and husbands to the mothers of their own children, flinch even a jot as they ordered the devastating headlines “Mummy, why didn't you come when we cried?” to be unfurled on their front pages alongside the face of the missing little girl?

I have seen, lived with and been party to many different kinds of sadism in a long media career, but I honestly think that this latest outbreak of malice towards Kate McCann is just about the cruellest thing I have witnessed. Many serious writers have deliberately avoided discussing the case of Madeleine. Not because it is not serious, but because there was no enlightenment we could bring; nothing remotely we could add to the frenzy of distress, loss and bewilderment.

I have avoided reading or watching most of the coverage. It was too harrowing; the couple's grief too visceral to bear; and I could not stand the treatment they received from the macho, out-of-their-depth Portuguese police. For many of us, it was enough, briefly, to contemplate the horror of losing our own child. Anything more was prurience and soap opera. But somehow we have passed a watershed. With this latest betrayal, picking deep at Kate McCann's emotional scars, we have regressed to the level of the medieval peasants reaching for the ducking stool. Although women suspected of being witches, I sometimes grimly think, received a fairer fate in their slow drowning than do modern women accused of being bad mothers, who are tortured to the point of mental disintegration. And so it is time to speak out in defence of Kate McCann, a woman whom I have never met, but someone who is being sacrificed to society's tyrannical views about a mother's role.

Even in the enormity of her suffering it seems Kate McCann must be punished for failing to live up to idealised, romanticised - and wholly unrealistic - maternal standards. Her child cried the night before she disappeared. It is of no relevance to Madeleine's apparent abduction, but what a glorious stick with which to beat her already guilt-ridden mother. Why do we do perpetuate this immense cruelty upon women? There is no justice in it. Kate McCann is just the latest in a long line of high-profile victims of the prevailing fatwa - that all mothers must be perfect, self-sacrificing angels. From Kate McCann to Louise Campbell (the mother of Molly/ Misbah, the Scots girl who fled to be with her father in Pakistan), to Britney Spears to Anne Robinson to Frances Shand Kydd, nobody loves to torture a perceived bad mother or a bolter like the British do. Any sign of weakness, any suggestion of being “unfit”, any hint that a mother is compromising her child by seeking small freedoms or equality, and the judgment of society is absolute.

Behind the famous names lurk an estimated 100,000 ordinary women who are separated from their children for various reasons - everything from abduction to the mundanity of being the main earner in divorce. They must simply hide their pain, die a kind of psychological death for their loss and exist in the shadows. Some, like Paula Clennell, one of the five women murdered in Ipswich, simply give up all hope when they lose custody of their children. Their problems are too huge; the hole in their hearts too big to heal.

The taboo surrounding bad motherhood has always struck me as tantamount to pulling wings off butterflies. Vulnerable women, already heartbroken by their loss, must then face devastating social stigma. If women are honest, they admit the maternal paragon does not exist outside Catholic mythology. We all fail, and frequently. But women, terrified of being stigmatised, are often not honest.

You will find out why the media torture Kate McCann if you read the online blogs: it is because there is an audience desperate, as far as I can see, to join in any kind of attack on a bad mother. Everywhere I looked I found a harshness and a pitilessness - from both sexes - towards Kate McCann. Women sanctimoniously pressed their own claims to maternal sainthood:

“My sons are teenagers and I still don't leave them alone.” They were also horribly vindictive: “Sorry Kate, but you have only yourself to blame.” They even, outrageously, cited God: “You can never replace the time lost with your children which God has blessed you with.”

On the Daily Mail site, women criticised Kate McCann for being photographed smiling. “If I lost my child I don't think I would ever smile again,” they declared pompously.

The Daily Mirror website spoke for itself: “Sadly, due to persistent and serious abuses, we will no longer be hosting discussions regarding Madeleine McCann. We do not take this action lightly... but the level of debate on the Maddy forums has gone way beyond what we consider acceptable, with several recent incidents of extremely abusive postings, both against fellow users and the McCanns.” A society, then, riddled with prejudice, which knows precisely how to attack women where they are most vulnerable, and thereby control them.

I would like to reassure Kate McCann that she is not alone, but rather a member of a growing army of mothers who share her pain and her pariah status. In a dark, lonely corner of purgatory, behind the sign “Maternal Failures Only”, there are a surprising number of her fellows who offer her only understanding, love and support. And this is a purgatory, she will come to learn, that traps only mild sinners, the undeserving and the desperately unlucky.

From The Times
April 14, 2008

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/melanie_reid/article3739770.ece

190 comments:

chinadoll said...

God Bless Kate and all mothers.

God Bless those with compassion.

God Bless Madeleine and all your family.

calcite51 said...

Rosiepops,

Excellent article. Any mother who has lost a child either through abduction or who has had a child die in an accident, will be tormented by guilt. When they have to face the unrelenting judgement of other people, the feelings of guilt must be amplified.

As for the mother who said, "She would never smile again" if her child died, I thought it was a rather over dramatic comment.

Will there be a hole in your heart for the rest of your life? Of course there will be.

Will there be really bad days when you....
remember the missing child's birthdays
their first smile
their first steps
when you see a child who reminds you of your own, etc. Of course there will be.

Will you smile again? Of course you will - you will smile when your other children
their first smile
their first steps

If every mother who had lost a child quit smiling, the world would be an even more grim place to live in.

Look at the people who have lost children - Mrs. Rose Kennedy lost her sons, Joe, John and Robert and lost two daughters Kathleen and I'm sorry but I can't think of the second daughter's name. My point is that Mrs. Kennedy still smiled and enjoyed life until the very end.

Sass said...

And we're open for business again!

Jojam said...

Good Morning ALL
Excellent article..........

Those who sit in judgement show themselves to be totally dishonest & without compassion.........

A mother who has lost a child for whatever reason will suffer enough without the constant vile comments of those who think they are 'perfect'

These 'perfect' dishonest people have no compassion & are not fit to judge and are certainly not fit to raise a child...........To be a good Mother you need Honesty, Compassion & lots of LOVE.

Have a Good Day

Mum21 said...

Good Morning All.

A great article by a woman with compassion.
There is no such thing as a perfect parent...we all learn by our mistakes. Luckily most of us learn without suffering the terrible heartbreak of Kate McCann.
Not one of us...including Viv's ardent supporters and including the Portuguese posters...actually know what happened that night last May. Neither in my honest opinion...do the Portuguese police.
It is time for people to start showing compassion and withold judgement...until the truth is known.
It is very easy to sit behind a computer screen and act as judge and jury...as many have done.
But it is very wrong to do so.

May this week bring forth better news for the McCann family....that is the prayer I patiently await to be answered.

Tulip said...

Good morning all. I've recovered from my efforts to join you again last night -- which succeeded only after you had all gone to bed and Jak and I were left to say hello and goodbye to each other.

This article is probably the one that most reflects what I've been thinking for many months. It is the article that I think all of us would write were we asked to do so.

How compassionate -- and realistic.
People on Vile's site and others like them should be made to copy it out 100 times -- 100 000 times -- especially people like Bianca who accused me of being a witch for saying something along the same lines to her. Unless you have been there you can't begin to know what it is like to lose a child. But for heaven's sake, surely we are all able to empathise and feel the pain for someone else or we are not human.

I'm ashamed for these apologies for human beings who attack Kate. I'm sorry Kate. Sorry, sorry, sorry. They don't represent us all, far from it.

I am sure the writer of this article has visited Viv's site and felt the same revulsion as we do.

helenm said...

Good morning ladies, just a quick hi before I hit the sack.

Chinadoll, thankyou for an excellent article once again. IMO it sums up what this site stands for admirably.

Jojam, you said:

'To be a good Mother you need Honesty, Compassion & lots of LOVE.'

Exactly and IMO some posters on TWS may have love but they are sadly lacking in the honesty and compassionate categories.

Catch you all later.

kiwigirl said...

Hi guys
Tried to look in on you during the day, have snuffly daughter at home from school, but couldn't find you!! Anyway this is a great article, however, you will always have people who go to the extreme and believe that they couldn't still live their life...the fact is though, you have too, especially if you have other children.

As for the other site, I sincerely hope that someone somewhere sees the light and closes that down - it is simply appalling what is being written on there, and many of those posters need serious psychiatric help IMHO!!

Has anyone heard from Diane and how her little girl is? I really hope that everything has gone well there, and that her little boy had a good time with his grandparents!

Husband is wanting some together time, now he is back from his bike race! Kids are in bed, and it is getting very chilly suddenly over here...brrrrr, winter is about to hit, hope it's warmer in your neck of the woods!

Will try and look in later on, or tomorrow morning

Sass said...

News from last night. Just to let you know that I have gone through all the records and have found out who it was wrecking Vile's and ours last night. This is just for info - no need for a debate, please, let's keep on topic!

Speak your mind posted as

"Keith"
Fake Vile"
"Fake Wizard"
"You may find the following link of interest"

Arepa posted as

"Dora the Explorer"

Now as Speak Your Mind actually sent a link to Muldoon's site, she may also be Arepa/Doubting Thomas.

I am now expecting a written apology from Leigh and Vile, but I'm sure I won't get one.

Jojam said...

Helenm,

I agree posters on TWS are sadly lacking in honesty & compassion IMHO you need both to be capable of love..............

Sassy............Those posters (or poster) bring a whole new meaning to 'Split personality' IMO they have severe mental health issues!

Sass said...

JoJam

It certainly got disgusting here and especially on Vile's yesterday!
Vile stopped talking to Speak your mind when she conversed with someone who wasn't "Vile-approved" so she gave up and left - and, it appears,took revenge!

Tulip said...

Isn't it interesting that the compassionate, realistic articles are the ones in the broadsheets -- designed for intelligent people -- and the nasties in the tabloids, designed for people who can't think for themselves and wait to be told what to think.

When I last looked, the overwhelming majority of the Comments approved of the article. One mentioned the case of little Sophie Hook who was abducted from a tent on her own lawn where she was spending the night for an 'adventure'. Nobody castigated her parents.

I remember doing something similar when I was a kid.

There was also a comment from someone who had stayed at that same resort and were persuaded by Mark Warner that it was so safe that their kids could sleep alone in an adjacent apartment!!

The venom I believe comes from a poisonous brew of true crazies, social misfits, the envy-ridden who hate people more successful, more affluent (spelling,Sass???) and better looking than themselves, and those who superstitiously fear that something similar could happen to them, and believe that if they subscribe to a witch hunt they are somehow protected against fate

Then there are the ones I find hard to place. People like Swedish Mum and Gina who often seem sane -- yet follow Viv like sheep, while pretending to have a mind of their own. Irrespective of what they believe to be true about the McCanns, can they not see how evil this woman is? Are they equally undiscerning in their real life?

Can they not see that attacking someone will achieve nothing? The McCanns have suffered dreadfully. How can they truly believe we condone child neglect?

I can understand in a way that a defensive Portuguese person might be putting up their fists in the face of criticism. But what possesses Swedish, Danish, Dutch and South Africans to get so angry? There must surely be scandals in their own countries to agitate constructively about?

Though they speak English, do some of them miss something in the nuances of what they read?

Sass said...

Hiya Tulip

Glad you finally got into the blog last night! It'll be easier next time - just e-mail addy and blog password.

It's strange this need to bash "bad mothers". I think the main reason people do it is to convince themselves they were perfect mothers. Shows how insecure they are.

See you later!

Sass said...

Gina

You can have any opinion here, too, and unlike the other blog we don't ignore people who speak to "undesirables" - which is what caused the problem on Vile's blog yesterday (and which we "naturally" got blamed for).

We don't, however, appreciate people coming over here for a chat and then going back to Vile's to complain about how awful we are. That is something both SM and Doppel did. Doppel also said to someone he would crash our site if someone completely unrelated to this site did something. Charming, really.

Now don't turn our blog into the Gina show.

Mum21 said...

Hi Gina,

Thank you for posting.
I honestly do believe we on this blog are finding it hard to remain quiet after the constant attacks we have had made against us by Viv and many of her troop.
Yesterday was the final straw. To be out and out accused of posting the filth that appeared on Viv's site yesterday went way and beyond fair play.
Have you ever seen us use that type of language on here?
Also to be blamed for what Assassin writes is a disgrace. Assassin is her own person and nothing to do with this blog. She has her own site.

Because of all I have mentioned...I (we) find it very hard to understand how you, and Swedish Mum go along with all Viv says. Even a child could see some of the posts Viv makes are a disgrace to human kind.
I could go on by refering to the comment by Viv this morning comparing Karen Matthews to Kate McCann. Anyone with the slightest bit of sense and decency can see for themselves that Karen Matthews is NOT a good parent...and never will be.
As I said...I could go on and on about that comment and tear it to shreds...but I won't.

No matter what my views on the McCann's are....as a decent human being I could never lower myself to post on Viv's site because of some of the regular posters there being a disgrace to the human race.
And that is what confuses us re you and Swedish Mum.

Have a nice day

Gina said...

Sass yesterday I made one post on that site and it said I am not posting on here today it is like a childrens playground.

Today I posted what I did on here and you instantly deleted it. It was not the Gina show it was making a comment about the McCanns which you clearly did not like. I therefore, unless I wish to be a puppet and allow you to pull my strings, have no choice but to post on the other site have I

Tulip said...

Thank you Mum and Sass.

I can imagine the post you referred to, even though it is no longer there. I knew Gina wouldn't be able to resist coming over but I've reached the point where I too must tell it like it is. I never scream or curse but I have been very very angry the last couple of days. You know why (we all feel the same) and explained it very well!

Yes, Sass, thanks so much. I did get in eventually last night. The problem was they kept rejecting my password which I was SURE was correct and then I got lost somewhere in the re-setting process. But tired as I was I refused to go to bed until I'd got in.

PS I see Gina is back. Gina, it isn't just about yesterday. Anyway, whatever ...

Gina said...

Mum 21, thank you. Don't bother yourself about Swedish Mum and I we are ok, just homeless and have moved in like a couple of cuckoos :<)

calcite51 said...

I also read about little Engla's abduction and death.

I would like to extend my deepest sympathies to Engla's family.

When an innocent child dies at the hands of an adult, borders, countries do not matter - what does matter is that the world has lost an innocent 10 year old girl because of a monster.

Mum21 said...

Gina,

No wonder we are confused over you...you did it again. You went straight back to Viv's blog and repeated exactly what was said on here.
On the DE I found you to be a very fair poster...as I also did Sweedish Mum.
But this going back and forth repeating has to stop. No wonder we have blog wars.

SwedishMum said...

Mum21,

since I've always liked you I will break my own promise not to post here again.

I think you know very well that I don't agree with everything that's written on Viv's blog. However, over there I'm allowed to give voice to my doubts without being attacked and lied about.

Here, I can't even "show my face" before the insults and lies start hurling about.

A few posters on this site are rather sloppy (and that's a nice interpretation on my account) when they're reading others' posts. And yet every word they say re those posts are considered gospel truth.

For instance, it's now an established fact on this site that I copied and pasted Calcite's post on Viv's site the other day with the sole purpose of ridiculing Calcite and this site. That's not true, I did it because I found it interesting and I also said so on both sites. Many posters on the other site found it interesting too. But then (thankfully) Isis told us the story behind it and Calcite asked me to delete it. Which I also did. The thanks for that was insults thrown my way yesterday.

Sassy,

I honestly can't remember that I've ever written here and then gone to Alsabella's or Viv's sites and ridiculed you. And I don't think you've ever seen it happen, I think you're relying on others' testimonies, which of course is your right, but it is rather boring to be slandered by people you used to respect.

But if I have, I agologise.

Mum21 said...

Gina.
Changing the subject.
I would be very interested to hear if anything comes of this alleged re-digging up of a road in PDL.

It is something that has been on my mind since Madeleine first went missing. I do remember it being reported that there was deep excavations in progress at the time...but they were filled in the next day. I also remember it being reported at the time that the PJ did not think it necessary to dig it back up.

Thank you

Tulip said...

You know, Gina, though it's not my blog, I'm sure nobody would mind you or Swedish Mum finding a home here if you argued sensibly and without rancour. I know this has been said to you before, so don't cry 'woe is little lost me'.

I see that even Bianca can talk quite sensibly if she keeps her temper and doesn't get hysterical about child neglect. There is of course no point in arguing about child neglect here as nobody thinks it was right to leave the children alone, but we are more understanding of those who did not mean or expect harm and suffered dreadfully for it. We will never take part in a witch hunt or a lynching -- we deplore such things.

The problem with you and the Swedish cuckoo is, as you know, that you abuse the hospitality of this nest then pop back to the other one to slag us off -- presumably to get Viv's approval, or why would you do it? Viv's approval! Ye gods, what an honour.

That's what we fail to understand. You can't serve two masters when one is Viv.

Jojam said...

Hi Mum,

Did you ask your husband about Arthur from Harting? I don't know if you saw my message the other day two other names, I remember are Rose & Ern............Sorry folks this is not on topic

Mum21 said...

Sweedish Mum,

You are very welcome to post here even if you don't agree with our opinions.
Because we have been ridiculed so much by Viv and Claudia...we would prefer it if you did not report back anything said on this blog.
That is all we ask of you.

SwedishMum said...

Thank you Mum21,

I believe that you feel that way, but I'm quite sure it's not the general opinion on here,

the Swedish cuckoo

Mum21 said...

Jojam,

Yes I did speak to my husband about it. He said it was a very big family and anyone with the same name living in Harting or Midhurst is more than likely related. The trouble is the last of that generation died recently....so we don't have anyone to ask.
Was it your grandfather or great-grandfather?

calcite51 said...

Swedishmum - I don't think I insulted you yesterday. If I did I do apologize.

I thanked you for deleting and I thanked Isis for letting me know the full story behind the article I had posted.

Mum21 said...

Swedish Mum,

Why not give it a try...I think you will find it worthwhile.

SwedishMum said...

That's ok Calcite,

I know that it's easy to go along with the "mob". And I also know that you thanked me.

SwedishMum said...

Mum21,

if it were for you, I would. But you're not the only one here and as you notice I didn't even have to start posting before I was - what I would call - insulted.

Gina said...

Mum 21 I was wrong to go onto the other site I guess and say what I said here, but I was making the point that I cannot post here unless I do not say one single word against the McCanns, and I am critical of them as you know

Re who ever asked about the digging, forget it, as I said on the other blog I did not trust the scource and think it is nothing more than a burst pipe

Swedish Mum - I think I was out of order speaking on your behalf. I feel like a cuckoo but that does not mean you do to. :>)

I am beginning to think it is better to just keep our opinions to ourself

Tulip said...

Swedish Mum, you think people here hurl abuse and insults at you! This is simply not true. In your case I do think there may be a 'lost in translation' problem. Your English is very good -- as is that of almost all Scandinavians -- but there are things about England and the English that you do not understand, yet still voice strong opinions about. It is a risk of joining a foreign blog, but in your position I'd be a little more cautious.

For example, did you know that I called you a Swedish cuckoo because that is how Gina referred to you and her? I assume you did know but I sometimes wonder what is missed here.

Maybe language nuances are the reason why you don't appreciate how vicious people are on the Vile blog. It isn't a case of 'not agreeing with them always' it's a case of being judged by the company one keeps.

I never see you calling for moderation over there or chiding people who go overboard with their venom. Because you know that would get you into trouble?

I stand by my opinion that you and Gina would be welcome here -- but as Mum said, certain things would have to stop.

I genuinely wish you well; have a good day.

SwedishMum said...

Gina,

no you weren't wrong at all, thank you for standing up for me.
And don't you try to steal my new title fron me,

the Swedish cuckoo
xxx

Mum21 said...

Gina and Swedish Mum,

We are all here for the same reason...to find out what happened to Madeleine.

Let us move on from who did what to whom....and start again.

Hope you have better weather in your countries...we are having a downpour here.

Jojam said...

Mum21,
Arthur was my Paternal Step-Grandfather I'm not sure how Rose & Ern were related to him........it is not really important as he was not part of the blood-line. I never knew my real grandfather Dad was raised by his stepfather. I was just curious as it is such an uncommon name.

SwedishMum said...

Gina,

I think I've misunderstood what's happened here due to your post being deleted. Did you say that we were/felt like cuckoos?

SwedishMum said...

Mum21,

wonderful spring here, the sun is shining and I have just noticed who horrible my windows are. Better do something about it.

Have a nice day, Mum!

Tulip said...

Hi again Swedish. Thst post of Gina's re cuckoos wasn't deleted. See her post of 12.55 here and all will become clear.

SwedishMum said...

Thanks Tulip,

sorry that I misunderstood you (it's really funny actually - "just homeless and have moved in like a couple of cuckoos")

Mum21 said...

Swedish Mum.

I happen to like cuckoos. I wait for them to appear here each year, and listen out for their call :-)

calcite51 said...

Sass, could you tell Kiwigirl how to sign in when this becomes a members' only blog (as it does occasionally)?

Thanks, Sass.

Mum21 said...

Gina,

It was me who asked about the road works. I just wish they would dig them up again...if only to put my mind at rest.

Tulip said...

I love cuckoos too Mum -- but I believe they can ruffle the feathers of other birds!

Glad you now understand the reference, Swedish Mum! It's hard not to miss some posts when they are being made fast.

Mum, I read that the road works excavations were very shallow and that it would be impossible to miss a child who had fallen in or even been buried there -- but who knows?

Jojam said...

Gina/Swedishmum,

I feel I'm also a cuckoo as I do not fit into either blog........having been critical of both sides.

I do however find the people on here to have honest & compassion unlike the other side where I either get deleted or attacked.

I do feel it is wrong to cut & paste from one blog to another.......only seems to cause trouble..........

Have a good day

Sass said...

Hello

This is a gathering of the clan!

Calcite, I did explain to Kiwigirl how to do that. All she has to do is send an e-mail to the address I gave her. Will see if she did - don't look at the account much.

Gina - I didn't delete you.
SM - nice to see you here again, I have the posts I mean.

Anyway it matters not now. You're here so let's get on with a decent debate! (Although I can't stay long - a decent mini debate!)

Sass said...

Calcite

Just checked - she must have forgotten what to do. Will leave a message for her later - she'll be in bed right now!

Tulip said...

Sass, when you contact Kiwigirl about getting on to the site warn her that one idiot at least struggled with that simple procedure!! Is she doesn't she'll feel great and if she does she'll know she has company!

Sass said...

SwedishMa

What is the latest on Engla's death? They have the man, don't they. Didn't he confess to another murder, too?

Sass said...

Tulip

You aren't the only one who struggled! I was actually on the phone to someone in Britain for 15 minutes trying to get it sorted out! She was finding pages I had never seen before - we did have a good laugh about it all though!

Mum21 said...

Gina,
I don't think that is what Tulip meant.
You are welcome to post your opinions here...even if they differ to most of us posting.
As I said...all we ask is you do not copy what is said here on Viv's blog.

assassin said...

just thought id let you guys know that viv has just had to lock her blog to team members only. Seems she cant handle my posts. thats good news,the vile camp cannot grow anymore. Keep up the good work guys, im gone again. bye, take care. x

Tulip said...

Gina, don't start again. The woe is me thing is your trademark. It has nothing to do with opinions but behaviour.

If we can't see where you're coming from it's because you whizz from one place to the other so fast you're a blur. Saying you're off, you won't be back, you haven't got time for nonsense etc.

Let's leave it there. The others know what I mean and have said the same often.

I remember the old Gina way back when. Revive her!!

PS Oh 'eck','e's back. Wooden spoon alert everyone.

Mum21 said...

Assassin,

What the hell has that got to do with us?

What you chose to do is your business...but I for one want no part of it.

Between you and Doppleganger you caused havoc yesterday....and I want nothing to do with either of you.

Tulip said...

That was fast -- by the time I pressed print he'd gone. We now know the reason for the visit.

dianeh said...

Hi Everyone

Just hopped on for a quick update before going to bed.

My news.

It went very well at the hospital. We had no adverse reaction to the procedure and only a short period of very strained breathing. We also have had some good news from the specialist. We now know what is wrong with my little girl. And now that we know, we can put an action plan into place to reduce the risk to her. It is good to have it identified at long last. I will tell you all about it at a later date.

Little girl didnt think it was much of a holiday (we told her she was going on a holiday, not to the hospital) but accepted where she was and behaved very well. She was only really upset once, and that was after she woke up in recovery and I (and her daddy) werent there. She was afraid.

But after she got out of hospital, she had a nice time. We spent a small fortune in Toys R Us and another small fortune the next day at the zoo. Went out for meals, etc etc. It was nice. But missed the little boy very much. Fortunately he didnt seem to miss us at all. Liked it at Nana's too much. But as soon as we got there this afternoon, he wanted to go home with us. So he must have missed us.

Thank you all for your best wishes. I was very worried but now I feel like a weight has been lifted.

Sass said...

... and back to the topic!

calcite51 said...

Tulip - I had trouble signing too the first night they locked the blog down - I finally asked ST to help me find my way back home - last nite was easy to get in. So, let her know, Sass there were two of us who experienced difficulties.

calcite51 said...

Diane - what good news! And welcome back. I'm glad the doctors found out what was wrong with your little one. We have been praying and thinking of you - we the blog - not we the multiple personalities.

Sass said...

Dianeh

Sorry I posted that (about getting back to the topic) before I saw your post!

Really glad that everything went well and now that they know what is wrong with your daughter, they can sort it out. Brilliant news.

You'll be able to sleep easy tonight then!

x

Mum21 said...

Sass,
Please do us all a favour and delete Assassin's comments as well.
All the time you allow her to post on here we will be tarred with the same brush.
I for one am not will to be accused of anything Assassin does.

Tulip said...

Diane I am so happy for you. I've been there believe me (as have most mums) and the relief is indescribable.

Enjoy helping your little girl to total recovery.

Mum21 said...

Hi Diane,
I am so pleased for you that all went well.
Love to you and your family

calcite51 said...

I now have to depart for that dreaded four letter word - WORK. Have a good day everyone and keep the site safe.

If I disappear for a short time, it is because I am having computer problems again and not because I have left the site. Have been having problems with this new computer and today we have to phone the manufacturer. Such fun.

Mum21 said...

I am out of here until things get back to normal.
I refuse to post on a blog that is contaminated by Doppleganger AND Assassin.

calcite51 said...

And i agree with Mum about deleting Assasin and Dopple.

isis said...

Diane,just logged on for a look,i dont know what was wrong with your little girl,but im just so glad that all is well now and she is on the foad to being better. Hope her recovery is speedy.

dianeh said...

Dope

Why do you think you are superior to everyone else, when you dont even understand the basics.

Assassin does whatever assassin pleases. She isnt a member of this blog, she chooses not to post here. Why she left the last message, who knows, go and ask her.

I know you cant get your facts right about most things but as far as Assassin is concerned, can you please make an effort to get it straight.

How boring you are. Go and bore them all on Vile's blog. You and your friends can pat each other on the back for being so smart. You deserve each other.

dianeh said...

Isis

Thank you. I really am feeling much better about the whole thing now. I think that the whole situation has been getting me down since she was born. I think I worried about it all the time, I know that I still go an stand at the end of her bed and listen to her breathe. Something that most people stop doing when their children are babies.

Gina said...

Mum 21 to be honest, and I am being TOTALLY honest I think this case has been talked to death by all sides and nothing any of us say or do now will change the end result, whatever that may be.

If there was a blog that any of us could just meet up on and chat about whatever, as and when, that would be the one I would choose to post on. If it were not for so many nutters messing blogs up I would open one myself to do just that, but although I have been around most of the day cos ironing and things near computer, I do not have time to monitor a site properly.

Tulip often when I say I am going I mean to do something, but I agree there have been times when I have said I am sick of all this nonsense. I actually used to throw a spanner in the works on the DX with cleaning tips as my way of defusing nastiness. Let us just draw a line under it all shall we, I am a decent person deep down, I get a bit hotheaded at times, but who doesn't. I think we should all just talk about whatever we are talking about and leave personalities out of it, doubt that will happen though on any site regrettably.

isis said...

Diane, we all do that. My 2 eldest are 14 and 15,when i look in on them before o go to bed at night all i see are 2 babies.Most important thing now is to keep yourself well as you must be truly worn out from the emotional trauma of the whole ordeal,pamper yourself when you have time.

Sass said...

Doppel

The person who caused the problems on Vile's site yesterday was "Speak your mind". I have checked it all out. If you remember, Speak your mind got the cold shoulder treatment from Vile for talking to an "undesirable". It's not our fault that she took revenge on that site. She was posting using many different names.

Assassin was on your site because of something written about her that was untrue. She wanted it removed. Noone called you a pervert - there was just apparent proof that you had looked on the sex part of Assassin's forum.

Now, if you have a problem with Assassin go to Assassin's site. If you have a problem with Supertroll, go to her site.

Stop bugging us with things that have nothing to do with us.
Stop threatening to hack into our site because someone who has nothing to do with us is doing something you don't like.
Stop telling us that people on Vile's are sane, reasonable people - we are all getting stitches laughing at that.

If Vile is shutting her blog down to members only (I remember you boasting on that filthy site that you had "persuaded" us to do that) that has nothing to do with us. Why, by the way, is it funny for us to have to go into members only mode and not for Vile to have to?

Go to Speak your mind's site and complain there.

Sass said...

Isis

Isn't it amazing how "cool" teenagers look so young when they are asleep!

isis said...

Sass, at the end of the day they are all just babies, whether they like to admit it or not !!

Tulip said...

Aw dop don't let us keep you.

Sass said...

Isis

I was watching an episode of an old children's programme. It was called Graham's Gang. A friend of mine had a small role in it and we were having a really good laugh over wooden acting, bad storylines and she was telling me what it was like filming. I asked how old the kids in the programme were - had assumed about 11 and she said they were 15! They looked so young for 15 in comparison with today's 15 going on 35 year olds!

Gina said...

Doppel I have always been considered a very shrewd judge of character and hardly ever wrong when I can look someone in the eye, which I cannot do cyberwise. But you are really confusing me, you either have a split personality, you are being cloned or you are not more than a sh-t stirrer. When you post on Vivs site comments based on the case, they seem well thought out and leave food for thought, then you go into this mode which just makes you look at prat. I am the one always accused of being the goodbye person, but you have taken my crown, you are always saying you will not comment again on blogs about other posters because it stirs things up, then you do it again. At least when I get up peoples noses I do it on op├Čnions on the case why don't you do the same if you want to annoy people, you may even win some over (doubt it though, think we are all fixed with our views now)

Sass said...

Doppel

I have the records which show who attacked Vile's filthy blog. I don't give a d**n if you believe me or not, it's the truth.

You threatening to hack into this blog and destroy it wasn't "that night".

dianeh said...

Sass

Dope wouldnt know the truth if it came up and bit him on the bum.

You have already posted about Muldoon/Areepa etc, but he chooses not to read it,either that or he cant quite take it in.


Anyway, it is way too late for me to be up and I have to work in the morning, so will be off to bed shortly.

dianeh said...

Good night all, I will hopefully be able to fit in a quick hello in the morning.

Thanks again for the support, it was appreciated.

Tulip said...

I have to admit that I only stopped worrying about my sons when they got married as I reckoned that sensible females would look after them in my place and let me know if they were ill!

(Memories of calls saying 'Mum I was in hospital on a drip this weekend but I'm fine now')

I still demand that they phone me on arrival at a destination after a long journey. Luckily they don't object -- they know it's because I love them -- and nor do their wives.

Sass said...

See you Dianeh!

Sass said...

Tulip

You know men who don't go into "nurse me" mode whenever they get a sniffle????

OMG, why didn't I find someone like that!!! A "serious" illness is anything from a zit up!

isis said...

Sass they are funny really, my 15 year old..going on 25 year old daughter has her make up on the hall permanently and wouldnt dream of answering the doo with out "touching up"!! . I suppose the peer pressure is enorrmous and the demand to conform to a stereotype is huge.She very dark,almost olive skinned and really does not need it but i just leave her alone, the pressure on kids is huge and the place they need most support is home. Shes a good kid though and has her head on the right way. O and by the way sass its called man flu !!

Gina said...

Tulip I have a confession to make.
My Mum always wanted my sister and I to call her too when we went on long journeys, but sometimes we stopped off for a meal or something and knew we would be really late arriving. So as not not keep Mum up all night worrying we called to say we had arrived when infact we had not. It was a catch 22 decision on our part!!!

Sass said...

Yes, but in my case it's "man flu with complications".

There are so-called illnesses here that we don't even have in Britain! Can you imagine a doctor telling you you have a cold in the small of your back? Or telling you you have Spring fatigue? Or you have a cold in your bladder? Now imagine this little lot with complications and welcome to my life!

I exaggerate a little and I wouldn't trade him in, but I have been known to be what he calls "unsympathetic"!!! For example he had a very serious nearly swollen gland in his neck once and my comment was "oh would you get a grip!"

He really makes me laugh and he has to laugh at himself when he does that too. I get called a tough Brit!

Sass said...

Gina

I do that! When I go to where I used to live on a mountain farm my dad always wants me to call him because he worries about me driving up a mountain. But I go and visit the grandma (who lives at the foot of the mountain) and I know he will worry, so I call as soon as I get to the grandma's and tell him I'm up there already!

isis said...

Sass, and hi Gina, best one i have heard is " i think im having a stroke in my eye".... The mind boggles!

Gina said...

Well Sass sometimes a little white lie is ok IMO

Gina said...

Hi Isis, hope you are ok. I wish I had something wrong with my eyes at the moment and I could not see how much ironing I still have to do. A friend has broken her arm, so I said I would do her ironing for her, there is load the size of a mountain, and I really hate ironing. Me and my big mouth, I should have volunteered to water the garden or something. It is a lovely sunny day and I am stuck in the house :-(

isis said...

Gina, household tip!! fold clothes when they come out of the dryer, no need to iron !! Im fine, just getting ready for a stint of nights in a secure psychiatric unit so god knows what i will be like on thursday.

Sass said...

Isis and Gina

How about a doctor diagnosing a man with something only pregant women can get?!!! This was after a trip to a doctor who "analyses things a little differently"!!! Thank goodness a relative was a doctor and pointed out that it wasn't possible!

helenm said...

Good afternoon ladies,

Couldn't sleep so thought I might as well get up.

Gina, saw your post re the road in PDL, going to the Baptista supermarket now so shall take a look. Have to say though that the whole of PDL has lots of road constructions going on. Get back to you all later.

isis said...

sass, im getting a mental picture of that and it is not pleasant !

Sass said...

Gina It's got nothing to do with that.

Doppel go away and stop trying to disrupt. I don't even know what it is you said to me earlier.

Gina said...

Helen, having checked out what I heard I really honestly think it is either a wind up or road works.

Sass said...

Helen

Hiya. How ya doing?

Sass said...

Bianca

We can't post on your blog - unless we agree with you 100%, so don't really see why you should post on here.

Bye bye and stop nicking comments from here to pull to bits on your monoblog. The latest one you chose is in particularly bad taste at the moment.

helenm said...

Sassy, hi, I'm fine. You have mail.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Bianca,

It was a comment Madeleine made which puzzled her parents. Whether she was actually crying NO-ONE knows.

You have taken something to use because imo it fits your agenda.

Gerry & Kate told the police everything that could possibly help the investigation, even if it was damning to themselves.

As so many people have previously said, I would tell the police everything no matter how small or insignificant it may be.

Well they have proved that is what they have done too.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hi All,

Was just popping in.

Back to work - see you tonight.

Gina said...

I know you do not like the other blog but Viv has posted a picture of Madeleine with Amelie that I have never seen before, it is absolutely adorable, and worth a look.

Sass said...

Gina

If that is the picture of Madeleine feeding her little sister - it certainly is a lovely picture. I saw it quite a while back, but it doesn't seem to be floating around anymore.

Sass said...

Hiya Tinks!

See ya later!

Gina said...

Sass, yes it is that picture. I personally have never seen it before and I think it is one of the nicest I have seen.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hi Gina,

I have seen it. It is really beautiful, it just saddens me for the purpose she has used it.

TBH, I think she is using these 2 angelic little children as a cheap stunt and it is insulting to Madeleine & Amelie.

But I guess we'll never agree on that.

Bye for now.

Sass said...

Gina

I think it came out at Christmas when the McCanns were showing the last Christmas to date with Madeleine. There was that picture and the one of Madeleine opening her presents.

Gina said...

Tinks/sass

Well as I said I have never seen that picture and it is the first one that actually brought a lump to my throat for some reason. Due to my job before I took early retirement I had to shut my mind off from emotions and just get on with it and it takes on long time to switch back on to the "norm" so to speak.

Tinks I am not passing any opinion whatsoever as to why this picture has been used because I only wish in future to speak for myself and not others

Sass said...

One of the annoying idiots from last night sent a post so am moderating. It was the same site as the link sent by "Speak your mind" yesterday.

Mum21 said...

Hi Ladies,

Just got back from my routine doctors checkup.

I have to say how delightful it is to see both Gina and Isis chatting on here.
What a pleasant surprise.

Oh and Gina...I agree with you...what else is there to say about this case. It has all been said a million times.
As I am sure you have noticed we do not always stay on topic...and often chat away about all sorts of things.
Keep it up ladies.

Mum21 said...

Sky News,

PJ are defending themselves re the leaks

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1312853,00.html

Tulip said...

Back after being out. What a pleasant vibe here right now, bar the odd visit I gather? Must be because I wasn't here. Dare I say lololol?

Sass, my husband is a fusspot, like most men, but my younger son is absolutely stoic -- the drip in the hospital episode is true: he had a bad ear infection which normal antibiotics wouldn't fix.

He is the recent one to get married and I breathe at last because I KNEW he'd never report in sick!

Gina, when my sons phone to say they have arrived I listen carefully to the background noises -- granddaughter's thudding footsteps, baths being run, cups clattering. as I know how easy it is to bluff.

Sass said...

Hiya Mum21

Don't know if you were around, but we got a really nice post from Diane about her daughter.

Mum21 said...

Hi Sass,
So I see, I have been reading the back posts

Gina said...

Tulip I hope they haven't read this blog otherwise you have blown your cover. They will possible tape the background you want to hear for future use, my sister and I would have :-)

Sass said...

Gina

You'll make Isis paranoid. She'll insist on them carrying a web cam with them!

Sass said...

Gina

Meant Tulip!

Tulip said...

They don't read this blog, Gina. Too busy! Mind you we do have Skype, so I can call them at home and SEE for myself.

Mum, the statement from the PJ is coming out very slowly.

Gina said...

Sass I know we need to take care of our kids, but webcam is a bit extreme!!!!

Mum21. At least we agree this has been talked to death - Love your duck, but I love ducks, except the ones I used to have when in the UK poo'd too much on my lawn. Here I go, lowering the tone of your blog.

Tulip - I am going into one of my woe is me things now - I got all big hearted and volunteered to do a friends mountain of ironing, and poor me has been shut in all day- I have now thrown what is left on the bed and said to hell with it and am going to sit in the sun for a while before I get all white and spiteful.

Spanish cuckoo signing off. Have a good evening, been nice talking to you all

Sass said...

See you Gina! Time for your ironing?

Sass said...

Tulips kids will be the only married people around carrying a baby monitor so their mummy can check up on them!!!

I laugh but if my dad had it his way I'd be ringing Britain at 10 minute intervals to say I was fine!

Gina said...

Bye sass, you know how you all get sick of the F word (not the four letter one) well I am now sick of the Ironing one and will never volunteer to do that again, I would rather go dig the garden, or cement the driveway. TTFN

helenm said...

Hi, I'm back from PDL, certainly no road excavations going on at the site of the road works last year. Mind you, if there was I wouldn't have been able to get anywhere near Baptista for journalists!!

Gina said...

Helen I am glad I saw your post before I switched off. Someone is about to get the sharp end of my tongue for calling me with that alledged road dig. They should have know me better that I would have found a way to check it out which I did indirectly because I knew someone like yourself who is in the area would take a look. Thanks for confirming that I can now blast with confidence.

Tulip said...

No they don't carry a baby monitor. I'd draw the line at that, I think! As I said, I only check after journeys now, under some other pretext, like 'did you remember to ...?'

Bye Gina -- you have much higher ironing standards than I have. I smoothe out most of mine as it comes out of the machine and hang it very carefully and creaselessly.

But I remember when I lived in a hotter climate where everything had to be pure cotton for comfort, that wasn't so easy.

The PJ statement on Sky is now complete. Not very convincing and also very ambiguous if you read it carefully.

Gina said...

Tulip the word Ironing is banned.!!!

Isis told me to take them out of the tumble dryer and fold them, but I do not use one, rely on the sun. Where do you live

Gina said...

Tulip forget that question I have just notice you said when you lived in a hotter climate- My own ironing gets a rub over if it is lucky, was only showing off to a friend how good I am at it (not)

helenm said...

Gina,

Don't blast them too much! As I say there are plenty of road works on at the moment in PDL, in fact your 'source' maybe referring to the ones near to the Baptista supermarket, but I can honestly tell you that this is new and not at the site from last year, albeit very near to them. Hope that makes sense?

Tulip said...

I live in England now, Gina. I either hang stuff out on the whirly line (summer) where the wind sort of billows the creases out, or hang creaseable items on hangers in my understairs linen cupboard.

The rest of the stuff (underwear and nightclothes, towels etc) I drape over radiators.

Gina said...

Helen, just so I am clear, are you saying that there are some road works nearby, but not in the same place as last year.

The point I made this morning when I posted on Vivs site was that I had been told it was in the same place but at this person was not there last year I did not see how they knew it was in the same place.

Anyway, I feel like having a little blast as I hate people telling me things without firstly getting there facts straight and making me look stupid

Sass said...

Tulip

In which hot climate did you live?

helenm said...

It is reported on Sky News that the PJ are saying that there were no grounds on which to base allegations of leaks onto them as reported by CM. I didn't think that CM had actually said that, although he certainly implied it. However, why did CM not deny that these statements were untrue, if as the PJ are reporting the statements that were released were NOT the statements given to the PJ? Doesn't make sense to me.

helenm said...

Exactly Gina. The whole of the 'main street' in PDL is under construction. Th area under construction last year included the area around the pharmacy, area near to the church and the internal roads near to Baptista. The construction is now extending away from Baptista.

Gina said...

Thanks helen I now have the true picture.

sorry to have turned the blog today into a launderette.

Will go now and leave you all to get back on topic or whatever

Tulip said...

Some years ago, South Africa, Sass -- same as our not medical friend!! Hence I could understand Afrikaans.

Helen, the BBC now has the full statement from the PJ. Basically they are simply denying that they had leaked anything. Well, they would say that, wouldn't they! So they can of course be sure NOBODY in the PJ had done so? I rather think not.

Gina said...

Can I just say something which you may like to consider regards these leaks. They may well have originated from the PJ's offices but not necessarily from any PJ officers. Translators were used, typists, and even a computer engineer could look at things. Plus there are solicitors, people who have been privy to all this information while trying to obtain permission to get this requestioning done and any of their staff could have had access to it. The thing I find intriguing is why it came out via a Spanish journalist and moreover why he said he thinks the McCanns are innocent, then does them harm by leaking this information. I guess it is easy for me to look at it with a wider vision because I am on the fence and am still not sure who did what and why.

Think though it is probably best if I do not comment on anything to do with this case on here as I always seem to upset someone if I do.

Tulip said...

Gina I agree with you. It could have come from sources privy to the investigation -- I doubt if it would be the first time.

Of course such sources should be properly controlled but I do think it is possible. Some people will do anything for money.

Gina said...

Tulip I only have 5 mins to spare before I have to go out, but what are your views on my comments regards the Spanish reporter. What on earth were his motives (money aside) to do what he did when he did, bearing in mind he claims to be supportive of the McCanns. IMO he should have told them where the leaks came from even if he doesn't want to tell anybody else. IMO there is something very odd about it and I just cannot put my finger on it at the moment

Tulip said...

It is very odd Gina. But first, he had got a scoop, which is like money to a reporter.

Saying he thought the McCanns were innocent was maybe his way of saying 'Don't blame, me I was just doing my job, nothing personal'! I.e he had his cake and ate it.

Journalists NEVER divulge the source of their info to anyone as they would cease to provide info in future if they did.

That's all I can think of.

Mandz said...

Hi All,

Dianeh, glad everything went well x

Chinadoll brilliant article - thank you!

Mandz said...

Why would anyone in their right minds want to throw stones at a couple whose child was taken? What drives them to this? Are they just sad people who get off on others misery or are they saying that somehow the McCann’s got what they deserved by leaving the children?

Everyone is flawed so what gives them the right to judge, point and abuse this couple? Will it help bring back Maddie?

The abductor/s is probably getting off on this sort of thing and I hope they realise this and can live with that. The evil people who took her will love vile site. They “refuse” to acknowledge the possibility that these evil people exist despite having any proof on their laps to say the McCann’s did it? I could never live with myself for supporting the theory that these evil people were NOT responsible for this missing child they so desperately want justice for.

If this happened to someone in their family or a friend would their reaction be the same? Would they slate their family or friend day in day out on a forum? I bet their reaction would be different if not God help them.

No matter what the McCann’s did not deserve someone to come into their environment and take their child – My anger is for the evil person/s who took her.

Justice for Maddie and her family

Tinkerbell43 said...

So the PJ can make a public statement when it is a smear against them. They make me sick with their double standards.

It never is you is it PJ ? you never take accountability do you ?
Just blame everybody else as per usual!.

Well I'm sorry, imo the buck stops with you on this one. Those statements should have been secure, NO excuses.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hiya Mandz,

Well said, I totally agree with you.

What good does it do Madeleine to keep vilifying her parents. You can see they are absolutely broken.

No-one will beat themselves up more than Kate or Gerry, why do these people think they have the right to add to that pain.

This little girl needs her mummy and daddy and they need her and I would like to know what the PJ are doing about this!!!!

assassin said...

two threads in mines, one for proper discussion, one for 'lunacy' if anyone sees this could they oblige with biancas url on the lunacy thread thanks.

gone again:-)

Tinkerbell43 said...

Mandz,

If this was one of my friends and I knew she was to all intents and purpose a good parent, I would be absolutely distraught for her. I would be angry with her, gutted for her but most of all I would be there for her.

Thats how I feel about Kate, at the end of the day she is a mum that yes, did make a bad judgement believing her little girl would be safe, but that did not mean anyone had the right to go into that Apartment and take that little child from her bed. Thats the real criminal and NOTHING imo is being done to find him.

Mandz said...

Hi Tinks! Hope all well.

I absolutely agree I would be angry furious even however I could not keep that up it‘s only natural to be supportive if you have a caring bone in your body. I would be saying right what can we do to help and comfort my friend. I don’t know the McCann’s but my heart breaks for them and I pray day and night that somehow they will see their little girl again. I honestly don’t know where they get their stamina but good for them for fighting for justice for their little girl.

As for the PJ re: smear well they would say that! So somehow the statement just flew out of the window and a Spanish journalist was walking past and caught it and published it the day the McCann’s went to Brussels re: Amber Alert for missing children? Eh hello…

Mandz said...

PJ never mind going public about the smears we know what is going on but tell us something WHERE IS MADDIE MCCANN???? The most important PERSON IN THIS MESS....


SHOVE YOUR TOURIST INDUSTRY...

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hey Mandz,

How you getting on with sending your emails, I managed to get loads out the weekend. Every little helps :0)

Tinkerbell43 said...

Mandz,

If you are still around, if you get a mo, there is a beautiful photo of Madeleine over at Viles.

Pop and have a look, but be sure to take a torch and crucifix.

Its a shame such an adorable photo should be used in the way she is using it, underneath an atrocious headline and if that is suppose to be Justice for Madeleine, its the biggest insult to her next to insulting her parents.

Tinkerbell43 said...

See you later.

Tulip said...

I think that the translation of the PJ statement is very poor. Like Helen I am baffled by what they mean at the end of it (see Sky or BBC). They seem to be saying not just that the PJ didn't leak it (and blaming Clarence for this natural assumption), but more that the content of the information 'leaked' did not reflect what was contained in the statements, 'which are subject to the secrecy laws' (even the lack of a comma here changes the meaning -- eats, shoots and leaves stuff).

Then where DID it come from?? I don't believe in a double bluff -- that the McCann team made it up so that people would be shocked by the PJ's malice/laxness and be more sympathetic or more disposed to believe Kate was honest with the PJ. It's too far fetched, as the risk of its having an adverse effect was too great. The tabloid headlines it generated prove that this was in fact the result. And the Spanish reporter? Part of the McCann team? Hardly.

If it came from someone in the PJ's office or involved with the process, it was still the PJ's responsibility to keep it confidential, whoever had access to it. I think they are sounding desperately defensive.

helenm said...

Tulip,

I agree, that's what I was trying to say but you're version was much better than mine.

Rosiepops said...

Hi Everyone

I find it amazing how many antis keep harping on about this latest leak from the PJ, why is that? Now doubt this is because this one leak has proved one leak too many and it has backfired on the PJ big time, how telling is it that when all the previous leaks have hurt the McCann's, not one anti thought to question why the PJ were leaking or who was doing the leaking, they were content to carry on and they loved every last letter of the leak because they saw it inflicting blame, hurt and pain on the people they love to hate - the McCann's.
To most of the vapid antis this ceased to be about Madeleine long ago, it became some kind of game where the McCann's must be pilloried, hurt, personally abused and attacked at every given opportunity and the top prize is to see them charged, found guilty and thrown into prison, regardless of whether they are guilty or not, it is a totally bizarre spectacle.

Now they have a leak that doesn't suit them because it has damaged the PJ far more than it has damaged the McCann's they are all whingeing and saying it could not have come from the PJ, it must have come from Clarence Mitchell. This is the most ridiculous blind belief, the antis are now so far gone that they cannot accept the truth.
If these leaks are true (and I have my doubts that they are as they have been made to look in the paper) but why in any case would they leak such a thing at such a sensitive time? Truth is of course they did not, it was the PJ and it was timed to to have maximum impact and harm, hurt and embarrass the McCann's while they were in Brussels. Also it was leaked at this time to back up Paulo Rebelo and his team while they were here in the UK, it was timed to try and put the T7 under maximum pressure, to break them, but of course it all went horribly wrong. The PJ had no idea of how the British press and TV news could rare up on them and when the leak did not produce what they thought it might with the T7, the PJ were forced to stop the interviews and go home early and accept the fact that the McCann's are innocent.

These leaks were to designed to try and wrestle back the momentum which had swung towards the McCann's and were designed to show the PJ in a good light to the rest of the world, while making the McCann's look bad and it backfired.

Again the PJ have forgotten Madeleine in all of this, while her parents have struggled to keep her profile raised and struggled to replenish the fund to pay for detectives to search for her, the PJ have been spending all their time and resources trying to blame the parents and have forgotten about Madeleine. It appears to many that the PJ are trying desperately to cover up something very dark and very sinister here, in my opinion.

One only has to look at the Casa Pia case which is being held in secret and the case of Joana Cipriano which is bound in mire and controversy and now the PJ can add the case of Madeleine to this list. In my opinion something is very wrong not only in Praia da Luz but in the whole of Portugal.

It is impossible for Clarence Mitchell to discredit the PJ, the PJ have discredited themselves without any help from anyone. They have shown themselves to be incompetent, inept, unprofessional and untrustworthy and they need to be investigated by an outside force.
The PJ pushed, pushed and pushed and became obsessed with blaming the parents, they must have known that no evidence was stacking up, that nothing fitted, but in my opinion this didn't stop them and now all they have done is managed to turn themselves into a laughing stock.

They were requested by the McCann's to do a reconstruction in the very early days when Madeleine went missing, the BBC offered to do a Crimewatch type reconstruction and they were turned down flat. Now the McCann's are meant to return to Portugal one year later and do a reconstruction? Why? who is it for the police or for the public?
Why do the McCann's have to do it? It is cruel and crazy to expect them to do this, again this shows the PJ in a disgusting insensitive light, there is absolutely no reason why this should not be done by actors and in any case if it is just for the police what good will it do anyway? It is totally bizarre request and in my opinion the PJ knew this was going to be turned down, so they asked publicly again at a very sensitive time to cause maximum damage to these parents.

We all know what the PJ are up to, the ridiculous thing is the PJ are so stupid that they did not think they would be rumbled, let alone immediately.

As or this ridiculous notion that Clarence Mitchell is trying to save his own neck, well how stupid is that? It is not his neck on the line, so why would he be trying to save it? What idiot would think this one up?

I hoped that when Rebelo took over from the disgraced Portuguese detective Goncalo Amaral, that this investigation would be run properly and efficiently, but it hasn't, all we have see is yet more leaks and more of the same inefficiency that caused this investigation to slip into a farcical chaos in the very beginning.

This week I believe the McCann's arguido status may be lifted - About time, but what happened to Madeleine?

When did the PJ stop looking for her and why?

What about all the unanswered questions surrounding Robert Murat?

I believe the fate of Madeleine will be discovered, in fact I believe that Madeleine is still alive and I also believe that 'officials' in Portugal could know where she is and where she was taken that night, it will come out and when it does it will finish Portugal for the next 20 or so years.

archer said...

Hi everyone

Excellent artice China!

Diane - I am so pleased to hear that all went well and you are all back together again.



My, oh my, Rosie - very well said.


Indeed, a complete underestimation of the British by the pj. The water's are so muddied at the moment, but I for one, have faith that it will clear and soon!

Tulip said...

Well said Rosie. Atta girl

On a lighter note, Ultraviolet understood our slapstick session re the spelling of affluent (was it with you Sass?)to mean that we thought the right spelling was effluent. I swear!

Much cackling at our ignorance. Do you ever feel that there's a slight -- how can I put it -- slowness about those people's ability to cotton on. To anything?

archer said...

Tulip Hi

Well then, there's really no hope for us is there? :¬))

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hi All,

Rosie, gave you a standing ovation for that one !

Hope everyone is well. So we have an unprecedented statement from the PJ (they can do it when it suits them) Anyone have the feeling they are on the back foot!

Just at a time (according to them)when they were making significant moves into the investigation aswell!. You couldn't script it could you, lol. Well dont let us stop you PJ, and while you are at it, can you let us know what you have done today to find Madeleine McCann.

Rosiepops said...

PJ? they are bloody amazing! They give a rare public interview because they want to try and save their own necks!

Where were the public interviews when "baseless" lies were being leaked out of the PJ offices about DNA? About Madeleine falling down the stairs? About her parents killing with and overdose of drugs, hiding her body and then retrieving it 25 days later and putting it in the boot of a car and hiding it some place else?

Why did they keep silent then? They did because it suited them to because they had achieved what they wanted, to further damage the McCann's and the only reason they have spoken out now is to save their own lying necks.

Why would Clarence Mitchell leak something that wasn't even on the transcript? As if this wouldn't come out anyway.

Well the PJ leaked this, it came from their office and maybe they should look to who is doing their translating for the leaks?

This is the PJ trying to save their own necks and it smacks of desperation, they know they went too far this time and the know that questions are now being asked in the Portuguese government, they know that the whole sorry mess in PDL and Portugal is about to implode and they are desperately trying to hang on. Tough too late!

If they think they can get out of this by coming out and panicking and making a public statement and thinking that we will accept it and nothing more will be said? Well they can think again, because the British government are going to be asking questions and we will not take this nonsense from the PJ any longer.

There needs to be a full and open inquiry into this investigation and the PJ need to be investigated by Interpol.

If the PJ think this is going to go quietly away, then they can think again because it will not.

archer said...

Tinks Hiya

This pj statement. I am intrigued that they should not only make one but also by the fact that it actually says nothing!

kiwigirl said...

Hi all
Good to see you back again! I didn't take down the email address which you gave me Sass the other week however, I have trawled back through the blogs and found it - hope I've got the right one, and sent you an email!

Great to see Diane back and hear that her little girl is going to be fine, that's really good news!

As for the PF, Rosie Isuspect you have hit the nail ont he head, they are simply just tryiong to save their own skins now. If Madeleine was abducted to order for one of the paedophile rings, then someone somewhere knows where she is! With the exposing of highranked officials being involved in the Casa Pia case then it almost follows that that someone is in the PJ.

All it would take is one persons conscience to kick in and Madeleine might be found...anyway have to pop away and prepare toast for little boy and tangelo for little girl - both home sick from preschool and school again...lucky me!!!

Tinkerbell43 said...

Archer,

When has anything they've ever done made any sense, lol.

Rosiepops said...

Tinks,

they use their secrecy laws to suit themselves, they say sweet **** all for 11 months and this investigation has been stagnating day in day out and suddenly because they get a bad press, this investigation was making significant moves?

Oh right pull the other one! The only significant move this investigation was making, was gliding towards the shelf!

Significant? the PJ were over here and they did not have common decency to give the McCann's a courtesy call, why should they? After all it is only the McCann's innocent little daughter that was abducted from her bed in Portugal.

For the PJ to panic and make this statement says to me they are bricking it, they are indeed on the back foot, because they now know that questions are being asked about them and their competency and they are terrified that there is going to be an official inquiry!

Tinkerbell43 said...

Rosie,

The only significant move I can think of, was Rebelo quick footing it out of the UK before the interviews had even finished.

Very significant to me that was, I thought it spoke volumes!

kiwigirl said...

Has anything come out of the PJ visit to the UK yet?

I would have thought that if they had made any sort of break through that arrests would have been made? So I assume that because this hasn't happened the PJ still have no official idea what happened that night. Unfortunately this doesn't bode well for Kate and Gerry as they could find themselves still the scapegoats and subject to all sorts of slurs and smears.

What is happening about their arguido status? I thought I read somewhere that this wasn't going to be lifted until August and Murats has been extended to August as well.

Rosiepops said...

Tulip

I have long since ceased wondering what makes their thick vindictive minds work, in fact I think their minds stopped working years ago!

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hi Kiwigirl,

I understand Rebelo was meeting with the powers that be today. Whether we will hear anything this week, I dont know, as I believe the UK are still questioning all other witnesses outside of the Tapas 7. I assume these must be relevant.

I have read the same as you regarding the Arguido status, but Murat has his mind on other things at the moment. I dont know whether you have heard he intends sueing 12 British Newspapers. No Portuguese ones mentioned!!

Tinkerbell43 said...

I'm gonna have to love and leave you guys, I hate work nights!

See you tomorrow,
take care xxx

archer said...

Tinks

Remind me please - Why did Murat feel the need to hire a care in PDL when he already had access to two??

Thanks

archer said...

Tinks - another time perhaps then.

Night night

Rosiepops said...

Hi Kiwigirl

There has been a bit in our papers that said that they were expecting the arguido status to be lifted soon, maybe this week an that apparently the PJ were due to report to he Portuguese judge today that they have no further information on this case after the interviews.

This being the case it is hard to see that the Portuguese judiciary will be able to do anything else but release the McCann's from the arguido status, to do anything else it is going to look petty and vindictive, in fact it already does.

They have to look at the bigger picture now, if (when) it is discovered what happened to Madeleine in Portugal, whoever is authorising these orders to keep the McCann's as suspects will automatically be dragged into it and could very well end up being accused of conspiring to pervert the course of justice, in my opinion of course!

So I think this week will be the last week that the McCann's will be kept as suspects.

There is much that is now going to start to come out about this. In my opinion we are starting to see the jostling for positions and we will start to see people trying to distance themselves from some of the disgraceful leaks, lies and innuendo.

there are some very very cared people/officials in Portugal now, talk of inquiries and being investigated by outside agencies, is just what they did not want.

Portugal needs to clean its act up, it now appears to have the reputation of a paedophile lurking on every corner waiting to abduct children from their beds!

Casa Pia...Joana Cipriano...Madeleine McCann are now becoming houselhold names across the world, just what Portugal did not want!

Rosiepops said...

Tinks

good night will not be long behind you tonight, have a long day again tomorrow.

Sleep well take care xxx

Rosiepops said...

Archer

I think there are many questions surrounding Murat, if I were a detective I would want to know why he hired that car when he had access to three vehicles?

dianeh said...

Hi Everyone

Just checked the news and am staggered to hear that the PJ are denying they are behind the latest leak. Just how stupid do they think we all are?

I also have been wondering whether or not the latest leak is even true. Reading Skynews, it doesnt say that the McCanns agree with what has been reported, in fact it is vague as to whether or not it is even the truth. The thing that I find terrible strange is that the McCanns friends have commented on it, where, when and how. No names, only 'Friends said'. The bits attibuted to the McCanns themselves have come straight from the transcript, with no confirmation forthcoming.

I wonder if it is even true, or a variation of the truth, or even an out and out lie.

Regardless of whether it is true or not (and if true, gives no wait at all to any of the allegations of accidental death, hiding body etc), or all it shows is that the kids were alone. And we knew that already. If it is true, then it shows the McCanns were co-operating.

I agree with Rosie, the PJ thought they could throw a bit of dirt at the McCanns and it has backfired, very badly. This denial from the PJ makes them look foolish.

It is time for an inquiry and time for the removal of the secrecy laws. Certain individuals are hiding behind the secrecy laws, causing embarassment to the PJ and the people of Portugal. And far worse, they have allowed (either deliberately or by their incompetence) the abductors of a little girl stolen from her bed, to get away, and have been unable to return the little girl to her parents.

archer said...

diane

Hiya

I was once told "When you are in a hole, stop digging". The pj are in a mighty big hole at the moment and would do well to take that advice.

The next thing they should do is start looking for Madeleine McCann... might I add with No Fear or Favour to anyone!

Rosiepops said...

Hi Diane

So glad your little girl is on the mend now and hope you will all be back to noraml ASAP. Give her a kiss from me x

Rosiepops said...

Archer

maybe they do not need to look very far!

Rosiepops said...

Diane and archer

I understand that Stephen Dorrell the McCann's MP has written to David Miliband at the Foreign Office to ask for an investigation into these leaks.

And apparently Kate and Gerry McCann have asked for experts from the FBI and the Metropolitan police be drafted in to look at this case.

I believe what we are seeing with the PJ at the moment is a knee jerk reaction to all this sudden turn about.

They have probably been told to make a public announcement and deny it all, like that is going to make any difference now.

Amazing 11 months and they have hardly made one coherent public statement on this case, they left the McCann's to their own devices in PDL to talk to the press or not, they use the secrecy laws as and when it suits them, but as as soon as the papers turn on them and there is talk of inquiries and outside investigations into their competence and their conduct and also investigations into the case itself, suddenly we get some garbled nonsense from them saying it "wasn't us it was the spokesman!" Utterly bizarre.
If this little episiode in the ritish press scared and panicked the PJ so much, they haven't seen anything yet! They have no idea how bad the British press can be!

I think the PJ have actually panicked and gone way too far now, Clarence did not make this leak and he is not charged with anything, he may have a case of libel against the PJ. He is probably taking legal advice, because if this statement by the PJ is untrue, he certainly looks like he has a case against the PJ.

Rosiepops said...

If Clarence does sue, then this will add to the five PJ already in court facing serious charges of concealing obtaining a confession by torture!

Good in Portugal init a?

dianeh said...

Hi

Bianca took my post about what I would write in a diary (as in Kate's diary) from last week and has suggested that there are dark undertones.

No Bianca (and I have answered her on her blog), nothing dark. Just stating the truth and just trying to make it light hearted. Do you really think I would trade in my son for a cat? as an example.

All mothers get tired and doubt their abilities as mothers and also doubt whether or not they are going to make it through the day. This is NORMAL. Anyone who has no doubts is a fool and needs to take a good hard look at themselves. It is how we deal with these doubts that is important. Mothers that suffer from depression (post natal or otherwise) make poor decisions and dont cope well, it is isolating for them and without help, bad things can happen. It is NOT normal to be constantly thinking these depressive thoughts, and it is definitely not normal to take no joy from your children at all. For anyone not coping, then seek help, get support, it will help you and your children.

Mothers should know that doubts are normal and not beat themselves up over the fact they have doubts about themselves. Mothers should also know that frustration with your child is also normal. We are not Mother Teresas, we are just mothers. We are not perfect,just human.

Forget the doubts and frustrations, dont lose any sleep over them. Rejoice in your children, play with them, sing with them, sleep with them, do the things you enjoy doing with your children. And most of all love your children because that love you receive in return is the best gift in the world. Nothing will ever beat it. And I know, I feel that love from my children everyday, in many many ways.

calcite51 said...

Diane, welcome back. Glad to hear your little girl is doing well.

I tend to agree with Gina and Tulip - there are so many who work for the PJ's (translators, typists, etc.) who could have been the leak.

These leaks seem to be continuous and come at very odd times. I don't think the PJ's seem able to plug these leaks.

Computer seems to be working better tonight - manufacturers were called and did some diagnostic stuff (how's that for high IT terminology).

calcite51 said...

I also went to bianca's blog - but I think one has to sign in to read the comments and I'm pretty sure that is not one blog I want to visit.

I've noticed how ALL the blame seems to be Kate's for making the decision of going out and doing random checks on the children. Oddly enough, I keep thinking, "Wasn't Gerry involved in this decision, too?"

What I'm trying to say in a rather clumsy way is that I thought as a society we were moving to two parents being equally involved in child raising.

calcite51 said...

On the lighter side of motherhood:

WHY GOD MADE MOMS

Answers given by 2nd grade school children to the following questions:

Why did God make mothers?
1. She's the only one who knows where the scotch tape is.
2. Mostly to clean the house.
3. To help us out of there when we were getting born.

How did God make mothers?
1. He used dirt, just like for the rest of us.
2. Magic plus super powers and a lot of stirring.
3. God made my Mom just the same like he made me. He just used bigger parts.

What ingredients are mothers made of ?
1. God makes mothers out of clouds and angel hair and everything nice in the world and one dab of mean.
2. They had to get their start from men's bones. Then they mostly use string, I think.

Why did God give you your mother and not some other mom?
1. We're related
2. God knew she likes me a lot more than other people's moms like me.

What kind of little girl was your mom?
1. My Mom has always been my mom and none of that other stuff.
2. I don't know because I was't there, but my guess would be pretty bossy.
3. They say she used to be nice.

What did mom need to know about dad before she married him?
1. His last name.
2. She had to know his background. Like is he a crook? Does he get drunk on beer?
3. Does he make at least $800 a year? Did he say NO to drugs and YES to chores?

Why did your mom marry your dad?
1. My dad makes the best spaghetti in the world. And my Mom eats a lot.
2. She got too old to do anything else with him.
3. My grandma says that Mom didn't have her thinking cap on.

Who's the boss at your house?
1. Mom doesn't want to be boss, but she has to because dad's such a goof ball.
2. Mom. You can tell by room inspection. She sees the stuff under the bed.
3. I guess Mom is, but only because she has a lot more to do than dad.

What's the difference between moms & dads?
1. Moms work at work and work at home and dads just go to work at work.
2. Moms know how to talk to teachers without scaring them.
3. Dads are taller & stronger, but moms have all the real power 'cause that's who you got to ask if you want to sleep over at your friend's.
4. Moms have magic, they make you feel better without medicine.

What does your mom do in her spare time?
1. Mothers don't do spare time.
2. To hear her tell it, she pays bills all day long.

What would it take to make your mom perfect?
1. On the inside she's already perfect. Outside, I think some kind of plastic surgery.
2. Diet. You know, her hair. I'd diet, maybe blue.

If you could change one thing about your mom, what would it be?
1. She has this weird thing about me keeping my room clean. I'd get rid of that.
2. I'd make my mom smarter. Then she would know it was my sister who did it and not me.
3. I would like for her to get rid of those invisible eyes on the back of her head.

WHEN YOU STOP LAUGHING -- SEND IT ON TO OTHER MOTHERS, GRANDMOTHERS, AUNTS and anyone else who has anything to do with kids or just needs a good laugh!!!

dianeh said...

Calcite

On leaks.

I disagree. There would be very few people that would have access to the files that are not Police Officers. One would think that there would only be half a dozen people that would legitimately be allowed to look at the file. If it were computerised, then it would be easy to see who had accessed it. And if not computerised, then I would still think that due to the secrecy laws, that access would be restricted. Otherwise, how can the secrecy laws be enforced.

A typist would I believe have to type on line, and there would be records of access to files (well there should be). This is no different to tax office files. All accesses should be recorded.

It was the PJ that did the leak, in my opinion. And how do we know that what was leaked was even true. If I know what the transcripts should look like, what is to stop me from making one up and giving it to a gullible journalist. And why to a journalist in Spain and not Portugal, where there are some very experienced journalists who have been following this case.

Very very strange.

dianeh said...

Calcite

I agree with your two parent comment. It is not Kate's fault, it is Gerry and Kate's fault that the children were left alone.

And I would like to add that whether or not Madeleine was crying the night before she was taken is completely irrelevant. The only relevance is the night she disappeared. Crying, yes or no, not relevant in the search for the abductor. Because that is what the PJ as meant to be doing, looking for the abductor of beautiful Madeleine. Hopefully, that will lead to finding the little princess.

But one thing for certain. Participating in a smear campain against the McCanns, will not find Madeleine.

dianeh said...

Calcite

The Mum questions. Very very funny.

Good post.

calcite51 said...

Diane, I agree with the smear campaign. The good thing is that most of the rumours/leaks have turned out not to be true. Unfortunately, some people take the rumours/leaks as actual facts and the damage is done to the innocent party.

Did you go on ST's blog? There's an e-mail from Piers Merchent, Assistant to Roger Krepmen about liability on blogs. He states quite clearly in his letter that people are liable if they accuse the PM of a conspiracy.

He also spoke about the fact that Portugal is a country who has recently become democratic.

dianeh said...

Calcite

Yes, read the email.

Those nutters (hanging around with Poms for too long) on Vile's blog have been told over and over that there is no Govt conspiracy, at least in Britain.

I doubt the govt would take any action but in my reading up on libel, I think that libeling the prime minister and govt is a criminal offence, whereas most libel is a civil offence (as in the case with the McCanns). But it really depends upon how this libel could damage Gordon Brown. Not much I think, unless the accusations actually get off the blogs and into the papers.

Stupid fools still dont understand they are breaking the law. Pack of Morons.

calcite51 said...

Is your little girl busy playing with her new Toyrs R Us and has forgotten her experience at the hospital? Was she at the hospital overnight? Do they have cots in the room for mom to say with the child if it's overnight?

I don't think either of my kids ever spent the night in a hospital. Looking back, I was very lucky in that respect. And it was luck, nothing to do with my parenting skills.

And your son is probably thrilled ot be home with you, Dad and sister. You're probably glad to be home too.

calcite51 said...

Diane, I have to go to bed - I'm just tired.

dianeh said...

Calcite

I slept in a big armchair next to her bed. She was in the Paediatric Intensive Care, so that they could monitor her breathing, in case of trouble.

The staff were really terrific at the hospital, it is a children's hospital. I cant ask for more than that.

Little girl hasnt forgotten the hospital. And didnt like it. I think we will be having to reassure her that on the next holiday,she is really getting a holiday, not going to the hospital. But she loved the zoo and the toys, and having Mum and Dad all to herself. She slept in with us for half the night, went out for tea with us. etc etc.

She just loved it. And has forgiven me for taking her there.

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