Thursday, 17 April 2008

Madeleine McCann mystery will be solved, say police

By Bonnie Malkin and agencies
Last Updated: 11:15am BST 16/04/2008


Portuguese police have insisted they will solve the mystery of Madeleine McCann's disappearance.

Faro police chief Guilhermino Encarnacao, who is in charge of coordinating the investigation into the missing girl, has brushed off criticism of his force.

He insisted the to insist the case was moving forward.

Madeleine McCann investigators have been locked in a war of words with the four-year-old's parents and their press spokesman Clarence Mitchell following the leaking of the couple's police statements.

Last week Mr Mitchell demanded an inquiry into how the McCanns' witness statements - given shortly after their daughter vanished - had been leaked and claimed it was another attempt to smear the couple.

In a rare public statement, the Policia Judiciaria (PJ) then criticised Mr Mitchell for his "baseless intervention".

Dr Encarnacao, speaking after a meeting between public prosecutors and police who travelled to Britain for fresh interviews with the McCanns' holiday friends, said: "Everything's going well.

"The inquiries carried out in the UK are progressing in the best way possible."

He said the police were not "vulnerable to pressure" from any party involved.

"The investigation will bring its results, whoever they hurt."

The pledge came as a clairvoyant claimed Madeleine McCann died in an accident.

Last week it emerged that Robert Murat, the British expatriate made a formal suspect over the disappearance of Madeleine, has begun one of the largest libel claims in the history of British media.

The 34-year-old, who lived close to the Portugal apartment where the missing girl was last seen, has launched libel proceedings against 11 newspapers and one television network.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/04/16/nmaddy116.xml

165 comments:

Gina said...

Good Morning all,

Calcite/Dinah you posted to me last night but I could not answer because I was in the land of nod, so I have replied on yesterdays page.

Mandz said...

Morning All,

Oh make up your minds one minute you are ready to swoop, imminent arrests, your 25 heavy boxes of evidence delivered to the Judge, ready to shelve the case, fly to Britain and interview then leave early and now….The case is moving forward?? You will solve this??? I mean it’s nearly a year now and you still can’t tell us where our girl is? But leaks continue??? You have said everything is going well????? Are you talking about Maddie???? Because from where I am sitting I hardly think anything is going well.

He said the police were not "vulnerable to pressure" from any party involved.
***********************************
Ha and neither is the McCann’s and in my opinion it appears that annoys you lot.

Re: the Leaks in my opinion I think this leak is not the original statement however I think they have taken bits of it and twisted it here & there and passed it onto a Journalist that way they can show the original statement to their Judge which will not be the same word for word I mean and no one can ask for an inquiry or sue. They will just say Kate must have told someone etc. And the fact that it was a “Spanish” journalist will add to this (to add another conspiracy theory it could have come from Met3) but in my opinion they have taken this to get at them and sway public opinion. I’m probably wrong but it’s just my opinion of this.

Gina said...

Hi Mandz, I think we could talk about who leaked what all day but at the end of it we will be none the wiser because we just do not honestly know. You may all be right about previous leaks, I am open minded about that, but naturally I had an interest in this because of the Spanish connection.

It is my understanding that when Metodo 3 were hired much time was spent with them giving them details and statements so they could start their own investigation. I am sure the wording was not exactly the same as the statements given to the PJ but the context would be the same IMO. It seems that the two statements have been compared and the ones leaked are not the same as the PJ's so I do believe they came from Metodo. I am not saying Metodo leaked them, but a journalist may have bribed someone for a copy. Time will tell, I will wait and see before prejudging

Gina said...

PS Mandz, I think the reason people are given a copy of their own statement, which they sign as accurate, is to prevent it being twisted. The only have to show their own copy to prove the original has been tampered with.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hey Mandz,

Just looking in on Troll Patrol.

Give them enough rope and they will hang themselves!.


Bye for now!

Tulip said...

Hello Gina and Mandz and anyone else who may now be lurking!

I do advise everyone to read back over the 'late-night' posts made by our friends elsewhere in the world, as they do bring new ideas and fresh thoughts to the table.

I see there is now an antipodean Vegemite champion who is rude about Marmite. You know who you are ... be afraid, be very afraid ...

Mandz I think your theory is perfectly reasonable. May or may not be true. I do know that since the PJ have leaked so much in the past (by their boss's own admission), they are the most likely by far to have made this leak too. They are damned by their own past record.

I often wonder to what extent the PJ's rigid belief that the McCanns were responsible for Madeleine's disappearance was influenced by their unfamiliarity with British people and customs.

Even the most fluent foreign English speakers (Swedish Mum take a bow) occasionally misunderstand the nuances of language and culture. I am sure the local PJ aren't fluent English speakers: the English for them are probably the rather odd red-faced people who flood through PDL every summer wearing too little clothing and losing documents. They would have been bewildered by the fact that the McCanns put their kids to sleep so early (oh ho -- to swing maybe, to drink, to get rid of them for as long as possible, very suspicious ...) whereas we all know it's a small English child's normal routine, which you change at your peril. (This is one reason btw why I believe the twins could sleep so soundly -- all that unaccustomed sun and activity in a new place: exhausting.)

Portuguese people apparently go away in a family group, not with a circle of friends. Oh ho -- very suspicious behaviour.

This couple aren't being overtly emotional, unlike Latin people. Oh ho -- very suspicious.

None of this proves anything but it might, to them, have indicated there was something 'off' about the McCanns that fellow Brits would never think of, and which might support their suspicions.

They must have known, though, about the baby-listening service at these resorts, and know it was common practice among northern Europeans to use it.

Maybe, once committed to their position, they find it impossible now to go back from it and are taking revenge as they retreat -- scorched earth policy.

Who knows? I just hope that we will soon.

Gina, I don't know how these things work, but if people are given a copy of their own statements a) they can make sure they never diverge from them in future questioning and b) check their friends' statements to find out what they said. Just seems a bit odd to me. I'd have thought a signed and witnessed statement kept by the police would have been more effective, but what do I know??

Rosiepops said...

Hi Mandz

Absolutely correct, well said.

Since this leak first emerged, I knew M3 would get the blame for this, in fact it surprised me it took this long.

Like you I think it was deliberately twisted around and leaked, this is in line with all the other leaks that have emerged over from the PJ over the past 11 months, they have always been doctored. (Excuse that word doctored, or should I say *notdoctored*?)

The PJ it appears are so thick that they think we are going to fall for this absurd story.

Little fly in their ointment, CM has said "I am not retracting a word of my statement"

Here is a novel idea Portugal, you say you did not leak this at the most sensitive time possible, well then let's have a public inquiry which sees the offices of the PJ investigated properly and let's have this investigation carried about by *impartial* investigators from *OUTSIDE* Portugal and let's see what they come up with.

Now that is a fair solution and in my opinion the only solution.

Meanwhile if the PJ really want to discover the real person or persons behind these leaks, why don't they start with their translation department? Investigate these people, check out their computer hard drives and see where they have been posting comments about this case, on what sites they have been posting and what they have been saying?

I think this is a very good place to commence such an investigation.

Also the lack lustre bunglers (PJ) should ask themselves, why M3 would want to hurt their clients so badly by leaking this and at the risk of losing a lucrative contract?

Hey PJ the your Portuguese people may be programmed to believe anything you throw at them and they may be too scared to speak out against you and to question you, but I think you will find that the rest of the world is NOT!

Especially here in Britain, we have a habit of questioning politicians and the our police and applying pressure until we make *OUR* public servants account to *US* because this is what they are supposed to do and we pay their wages.

Try again PJ Wool- not- pulled - eyes.

Portuguese Tourist Industry - shove it!

Gina said...

Tulip I really do not want to debate this issue much more because I am not sure. I will try and explain what I mean this way.

I believe you have the right to a copy of your own statement only, not other people's statements. Any lawyer worth his fee would insist on it, in order to prevent what some are accusing the PJ of, changing it. Now if I have got that wrong I am sorry for misinformation, but I will tell you this, if what happened to the McCanns happened to me and I had no faith in the police I would certainly make sure I had a copy of my statement and as I said the lawyer should have ensured this happened to protect his clients. Maybe he did, who knows. If he has a copy he can prove the PJ messed with the original- Oh this is getting to involved, I think I will do a Mandz and go put the kettle on

Tulip said...

Gina, sure. But the McCanns could easily gain access to the other Tapas' statements in the UK afterwards. They could then theoretically check out and compare all their statements and prepare reasons why A and B could be explained.

If the original statement were signed by the McCanns and witnessed by their lawyer,then filed,it would be a bit risky even for the PJ to tamper with it, surely?

Of course we aren't sure of anything, which is why debating doesn't get us very far. So why are we here?

To show that there are people who support justice. To exchange new information when it occurs. To exert pressure if possible. To chat while we wait. Take your pick!

Gina said...

Rosie, maybe Metodo should also check their translators, etc.

I really cannot understand why you constantly want to shove the tourist trade - Perhaps you are not aware that a very high percentage of businesses and holiday rental villas are British owned, so indirectly a great many brits will loose their income, not the Portuguese. They just benefit from the spin off. Mark Warner is not Portuguese either. Seems a bit extreme to me, but I guess I look at things differently from the way you do

Gina said...

Tulip, this is an unusual case because all the witnesses are friends and ofcourse can compare statements, so if you like they have the full set to check out against leaked ones.

To be honest IMO this is not really worth getting in a fizz about it can so easily be checked out and proven, which undoubtedly it will in a few days once everybody concerned has their team onto it.

Rosiepops said...

Morning Gina,

I think you are missing the point, the statements were twisted on purpose so the PJ could deny it was them leaking the statement.

By the way this is not the first time that the PJ have leaked to a Spanish newspaper, so who is surprised?

Not me, not one bit surprised.

The PJ know the rests of the world is deeply suspicious of them and their leaks and this was a contrived way of doing it.

Well lets have a full and open public inquiry carried out by independent investigators, if the Portuguese police have done nothing wrong then they have nothing to fear - have they?

After all isn't this what is being slung at the McCann's constantly?

Public Inquiry please. One that has far reaching powers to investigate the entirety of the way this investigation has been bungled, oops sorry handled, right from the beginning.

This panicked statement from the PJ is a knee jerk reaction to the *fact* that questions are now being asked of them and their handling of this investigation. British MPs and MEPs are now asking questions and to satisfy everyone, I understand that a full and open public inquiry carried out by independent investigators is being sought.
This is what the PJ are worried about, they did not see this one coming, after all why should they? they have leaked, leaked and leaked and got away with it.

Trouble is now it looks like all their chickens are going to come home to roost and if I were a PJ or an office worker etc, i would feel very afraid, very very afraid.

M3 risk thousands of pounds retainer a month to leak something so sensitive, it could really harm their clients and lose them their contract?

Believe that little bit of nonsense and you would believe anything!

But then in my experience looking at the bizarre nonsense that some people have readily believed to be the truth over the course of this investigation and you can see why the PJ thought they would get away with it!

But then perhaps the PJ should have given more attention to what the real British people are saying and thinking about this case, those that DO NOT take part in insane and evil blogs, those that just think what they think without fanfare? they would have got a better and truer picture.

Public Inquiry into this whole sorry mess, it is nothing short for what Madeleine actually deserves, this farce must never, ever be allowed to be repeated.

Tulip said...

Has it been actually established that copies of the statements WERE given to those making them? If they weren't, Metodo 3 (and anyone else outside the PJ offices) would not have had sight of them.

Gina said...

Rosie/Tulip as yet we only know what we read in the papers and we know how unreliable they are. It appears the UK press are not saying much at the moment but the foreign papers are. Whether the PJ have leaked things before is only an opinion, I do not know for sure but you may be correct. I personally so not think the latest leaks came from the PJ and neither am I saying Metodo authorised them. I am going out now but will leave you with this report and make what you will of it

Correio Da Manha 17/4/08
Portimão PJ to sue McCann's spokesman

The declarations of Kate McCann reminding a conversation with her daughter Maddie the day she disappeared, concerning the fact that the day before she left her crying in the bedroom, are not part of the official process of the Criminal Police, as it was discovered by the CM. They were reproduced by the Spanish television Telecinco and the journalist Nacho Abad says he has proof that they are true ' but they will be clarifications made by Kate to private detectives.

The process still remains in secrecy of justice but "the day it will be open to the public it will be easy to prove that those declarations are not there" said a source close to the investigations. Therefore, this leak could never have come from the PJ.

"The day that that situation will be duly clarified" Clarence Mitchell will be sued by damages caused against the image of elements of the Department of Criminal Investigation of Portimão, after being "unjustly accused" by the McCanns spokesman of passing informations of the process to the media.

The British police also know that those declarations of Kate, about her relationship sometimes difficult with her daughter are not in the process. When the Spanish channel reproduced them a delegation of the PJ was in Leicester to hear the McCann's friends and the British authorities confirmed that it was a deposition made by Kate to private investigators. It is a company that worked for the couple before Método 3 and in the end printed a report with those sentences. According to our sources, only 3 parts have copies of those documents: the company, the McCanns and the British authorities.

The problems with the international press continue and yesterday the Telegraph advanced declarations of Guilhermino Encarnação after a meeting with the prosecutor quoting him saying that the "case will be solved whoever it hurts". Source close to the responsible of the Faro's PJ guarantees to the CM that none of this is true.

Tulip said...

Thanks Gina. 'The problems with the international press continue.' Hm. Pot and kettle here.

Gina said...

Ps forgot to say, who was the company before Metodo, was it Hogan. I cannot remember

Rosiepops said...

Gina

Why? I say shove the tourist trade?

Maybe because I am scared to death that this is going to happen to another child and another family?

After all if I were a child abductor I would be pretty happy with events so far, the PJ not even investigating an abduction and after all this nearly a year in and the PJ have not even asked tie right questions, not even been anywhere near the truth, if I were a child abductor, I would be feeling more than confident to do this again!

Not only that, in my opinion Portugal and the PJ have constantly placed their £2.8 billion tourist industry above this little girls and her family's plight and that of other children apparently, why wouldn't I say:

"Portugal's tourist industry - shove it?"

Through out this I have had gut instincts about things which have constantly come true and I have a strong gut instinct now, something more than the tourist industry is at play here and time will tell, it will too, it *always* does.

I believe that certain people in Portugal know exactly where Madeleine McCann is being held. I wonder how many others could be being held with her?
Children like Madeleine that did NOT make ex PJ officer's list of vanished UNEXPLAINED missing children in Portugal. Bizarrely with the prospect of serious criminal charges being brought against ex PJ investigator Paulo Cristaovo he was made head of this unit?!
He continues to be allowed to make money out of the case of missing Joana Cipriano, even though he is now facing a serious trial in court and if convicted he will probably be sent to prison.
Astonishingly he has been allowed to publish a book about Madeleine McCann called the "Star of Madeleine" while this case is still open and supposedly being investigated!

The connotations of this man and his position within the PJ and the position he has been given since leaving the PJ, hold him and those responsible for placing him in this position highly accountable for their actions and this to me raises all kinds of serious questions of this man, the PJ, those that employed him and also the Portuguese government's Alipio Ribeiro for allowing this to happen.

this is just one facet of this highly convoluted case.

Madeleine McCann's disappearance has opened the biggest can of worms imaginable and in my opinion this is why they have been trying to cover this and what better way than blaming the parents? After all they got away with it in the case of Leona Cipriano and her brother.

But then they did not understand or bargain for the tenacity of the McCann's, who are NOT going to shut up and quietly go away, until they find their daughter.

All in my opinion of course.

Off out now have something important to do. See you all later.

Rosiepops said...

No Hogan the clod case dtective agency came long after.

Gina said...

Rosie, it is all just a bloody mess IMO, whose fault it is remains to be seen. Off myself now too

Rosiepops said...

Gina

the problem is that if you look at what I write you will find that most of it is based on things that are fact. ie Goncalo Amaral and Paulos Cristaovo and the other four PJ officers now due to face trial in court for their actions.

I base what I say on what people have said.

I simply do not believe the PJ when they say this was not leaked by them, their past record of leaks, smears, lies and innuendo says it is.

Gina said...

Rosie I will go along with you to a point but as you say innocent until proven guilty. They are awaiting trial but have not be found guilty yet, so I will not condemn them yet for something they may not be guilty of

Mandz said...

Hi All,

Tulip & Rosie,

I absolutely agree with both of you and the fact that CM has said he will not be detracting speaks volumes in my opinion.

Tulip you are absolutely right about culture and routine and how we raise our family etc which they find odd. I think they have allowed this to make wrong judgements.

If you remember not that long ago a Danish mother left her child outside a coffee shop for two hours (I think) and was arrested however she said it’s what we do in Denmark and the baby needed fresh air. It was not that long ago when people left their children in prams outside of shops however we would not do this now.
When I had my children it was the norm to put your children outside in the garden in all weathers except fog because the fresh air is good for them and my doctor also told me this as long as they are wrapped and not out when absolutely freezing or fog – use common sense. My grandmother and mother always said the same – It’s a culture thing here however I’m not sure people in England do this?

When we visited my Aunt & cousins in Spain years ago my Aunt put the baby out early in the back garden in the shade and the neighbours knocked on the door and said you’ve left your baby outside! They don’t do that and thought this was odd!
***********************************
In May of 1997, a 30-year-old Danish actress was in New York visiting the father of her 14-month-old daughter. At some point they parked the baby's stroller in front of the windows of Dallas BBQ, an East Village restaurant, and went inside for a drink. This alarmed some of the customers and waitstaff, who summoned the police. When the police arrived, they took the baby into protective custody and filed criminal charges against the mother.

First of all, this is absolutely unextraordinary behavior in Denmark, although contrary to what Americans tend to think, it's not about the drinks or the parents' desire to be rid of the baby while they enjoy a nice meal. It's about frisk luft ("fresh air") which Danes consider one of the most important things you can give a child.

I've had problems with this myself. When it began to get cooler last fall, I was surprised that Trine kept letting Molli nap in her stroller out on our patio.
"Kind of cool, isn't it?" I'd say.
"She needs the fresh air," she'd say.
The days got darker and colder, and still Trine insisted on leaving the girl out on the patio. I found myself running in and out of the patio door every few minutes to check on her because I was convinced Molli would. . . well, I don't know. But I sure didn't expect anything good to come of it.
"It's snowing out there," I'd say.
"She needs the fresh air," she'd say.
I'm ashamed to admit I even went behind Trine's back: when I was visiting a doctor for my sinus problems, I snuck in a question about the wisdom of leaving a baby outside in a stroller in winter.

"But they need the fresh air!" the doctor said.

Christabel said...

Good morning Rosie,
Just a quick visit as I have a hairdressers appointment at 12.

I see the leaks are in the news again.
These were leaked deliberately last week and IMO it was the PJ AGAIN !
I notice the leak last June by Felicia Cabrita is being ignored
(see below) and didn't she get this from Gonc ?
Do you remember Rosie who I said was Gonc posting on blogs ?
Seems I was right doesn't it ?
See you later.

The first public indication of police thinking came at the end of June when the magazine Sol published a story about the McCann group, casting doubts on their evidence and claiming they had undertaken a pact of silence. It was the first time the McCanns’ friends had been named in public, but Sol’s journalist Felicia Cabrita had their names and phone numbers and details from their witness statements. She had called them all, and at least one other witness, Jes Wilkins.

The information had been handed to Cabrita by the police – she says she acquired the material through good journalism, which in a sense it was – and her source is widely believed by her colleagues to have been the former head of the inquiry, Goncalo Amaral.

Christabel said...

Hi Mandz,

see ya later!

Mandz said...

Hi Rosie,

Well you only have to look at the Casa Pia case to see what has happened/going on in Portugal. Have they got rid of all these alleged corrupt high ranking people with alleged links to other
Countries - paedophile rings? Alleged police cover up & they apparently lost vital photographs of high ranking people???

What was it again Interpol said about them?

Mandz said...

Bye Christabel xx

Sass said...

Hiya and bye!

Just on troll patrol!

Make yourself beautiful for us Christabel.

Gina said...

Christabel, I was going out but it is raining so I haven't gone, not that you need to know that. Very interest to know who you think Gonc is blogging as. I have seen some theories on the other side as to people on here are too and to be honest I find it amusing

Gina said...

Oh dear, oh dear, I have just worked it out for myself. Christabel thinks I am Gonc. What is the point of saying anything as I can not prove her wrong although she is way off the mark. I cannot speak a word of Portuguese, and yesterday I was teaching Swedish cockney slang.

I had hoped it would be possible to post on both blogs but I can see now that it is not going to work unless I am prepared to slam into the PJ along with the rest of you. Well I am not. I am not prepared to slam into any police force in any country until such time they have been exposed as corrupt. I have too many friends in the UK force and I know how easy it is for people to be critical without understanding the complexity of some of the cases they are working on, and they do not understand why it takes so long sometimes to bring charges.

I also know as fact that one country has a completely corrupt police force which was reported before they were accepted into the EU, however they were still accepted and I question why. I presume because of political gains but I do not know the true reason. I hasten to add this was not Portugal, I know nothing about their police force other than what has been reported during this case.

Tulip before you say I am running away at the first sign of trouble, that is not the case at all, I just see it as pointless debating with people who have such fixed opinions, especially about the identity of the blogger.

calcite51 said...

Gina, do witnesses as well get copies of their statements or just the arguidos?

Gina said...

Calcite, I was just off but to answer your question I am not sure but I would guess that everybody has the right to a copy of their own statement but nobody elses.

calcite51 said...

Eleven months later and the mystery is still NOT solved. Didn't the police also say when Madeleine first went missing, the investigation was going well? Deja vue.

Gina, if the police force are innocent of any leaks, then surely they would welcome an enquiry.

calcite51 said...

I would be very surprised to hear that witnesses get copies of their statements. I'm surprised to hear that arguidos get a copy of their statements...

Was it not reported that witnesses had replied, "I don't know or I don't remember" when requestioned in England? Surely, if they had a copy of their statement, they could have reviewed it and given replies that match their statements.

calcite51 said...

Has anyone heard that PJ's are threatening to sue CM? This is becoming a case where everyone is suing each other....

Gina said...

Yes Calcite I totally agree with you about they would welcome an inquiry but people seem to have forgotten they are in the middle of a case (whether anybody agrees with the way it is going or not). It will not be long now before they will have to either release the McCanns or charge them, that need to be done first. I know all of you think it impossible that the McCanns (or one of their friends) could be guilty, but it should not be dismissed as a possibility. If anybody is charged and evidence to prove their guilt is submitted then there is no need for an enquiry into the PJ because they have done the job correctly. This is too involved to explain in short. Some theories are that these leaks are in order to divert attention away from the actual case.

I do not know what is happening and why but I am sure that this is doing nobody any good whatsoever and everybody should just calm down a little at this point in time. As you know I am still trying to work out how an abductor climbed out of a window with those shutters in the way without disturbing anyone, or came out of the door without bumping into JT or how the McCanns if guilty disposed of a body. Neither works for me so I have no answers. Off from here now

Mandz said...

Gina,
Have you ever wondered why no one saw Shannon in a busy public area? not even the neighbours where she stayed saw her go into the house?

What about other children who were abducted how come no one ever sees what happened?

helenm said...

Gina,
No-one is asking you 'to slam into the PJ'. We have listened to your opinions just like you have listened to ours, where is the conflict there? I accept that posters have differing opinions, even on this blog but that does not interfere with my reasons for posting here. I don't know why you should think it otherwise in your case.

If you reply, get back to you later, off out now. The sun is shining here!!!

calcite51 said...

IF it is true that the PJ's are threatening to sue CM, in spite of the fact the PJ's are in the MIDDLE (after eleven months) of an ongoing investigation, then surely it would have been as easy to say they would welcome (if they do) an inquiry as opposed to saying they were going to sue CM.

The PJ's might be interested in hiring CM after all is said and done for damage control at the end of this investigation IMHO.

Mandz said...

Previously, all information in police investigation files had to remain secret, and Mark Williams-Thomas, a former Surrey child protection detective now in Praia da Luz, told The Sunday Telegraph that officers had used this as "an excuse for not doing proper detective work".
He said: "They said they could not do a televised appeal because of secrecy laws but that was not about secrecy, because secrecy refers to details of the investigation."


What stopped them from doing a TV appeal….?

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hi Mandz,

Just doing me rounds!

This has always been my biggest bug bear, there were 2 exceptions to the secrecy law that could have been applied in this investigation.

I would love to know who's decision it was to not apply them.

This is why we have to keep pushing and questioning the PJ otherwise everything is going to get swept under the carpet and THAT is not acceptable!!!!.

There are questions they need to answer. In fact I have one right now,

PJ, what have you done today to find Madeleine McCann ????

Tulip said...

Gina, there may or may not be someone on this site saying you are someone you are not, I have no idea, but there are many bloggers here, so are you running away from us all? Seems to be a bit self-defeating.

We are all individuals. Just don't debate with anyone you don't want to.

Mark55 said...

Rosiepops,

Notice I missed a post from you last night, one too many glasses of vino if you know what I mean, I could hardly keep my eyes open. Not sure how you noticed my posts on Vile’s blog though because she deleted them straight away, so I didn’t bother after that. I just wanted to tell the stupid woman what I thought of her. Why she would leave posts there she thought were by me I don’t really know, she usually deletes our posts straight away!

I haven’t been around much since I got locked out of my DE account but that’s a long story. My PC was running slowly before Christmas and my PC chap found a ‘key logger’ on it, you’ll have to get Mum21 to explain what one of those is, I’m not a PC expert. He said no one would be interested unless I had actually lost any money and it was probably just a random thing so I didn’t think anything about it. Then when I tried to post on the DE a week or so later I couldn’t because my password had been changed. To cut a long story short, there was nothing I could do about it because I had no way of proving I was me and the other person was not, I was bloody furious I can tell you!

When Kate and Gerry sued the DE and won, I was absolutely ecstatic, about time someone put that rag in it’s place, why anyone believes the rubbish they print anyway is beyond me, give me the Guardian any day.

Once again the sun is shining, so I’m off out to mow the lawn - busy people, busy lives. Just thought I’d explain why I haven’t been about much recently. It was only when the PJ leaked the information to discredit Kate and Gerry that I decided to set up a blogger account and give Vile a piece of my mind but I’ve got better things to do really, just makes the woman think the World revolves around her anyway!

Anyway, the sun beckons, if I don’t catch you around hope everything works out for you.

Adios!

Tulip said...

PS Gina

Where have you read that 'all of us think it impossible that the McCanns or one of their friends could be guilty'?

All of us have varying opinions, and I have repeatedly read here that while we don't know anything, we are against the injustice of trial by press and public opinion, when we have seen no evidence yet.

That is what we are here for, whatever the other site may say.

Gina said...

Mandz - I was not questioning why no one saw an abductor I was questioning how he managed to climb out of the window, with a child, with the blinds in the way and without leaving a shred of evidence, ie. fibres, prints etc. I am not saying it was impossible but how he did that without M. waking I really do question.

Helen, I as I explained with not ridicule any police force until they are proven to be at fault. I am finding it difficult to conversed without flying to their defence, although at this stage maybe they do not deserve to be defended, if you see what I mean

Tulip I take on board what you said, but it is very difficult to hold your temper when you get a poster encouraging others to follow their (wrong) theory that I am not who I say I am. I just feel is it actually worth the bother. I know if it goes on I will blow my top and then be accused of coming on here to disrupt. Is it worth it I ask myself? True I have presumed you all think the McCanns could in no way be guilty, maybe some of you are actually on the fence like me, not sure.

Tulip said...

Well, Gina, only you can decide whether you feel it's worth it or not, and whether you feel able to stop yourself blowing your top.

It's good to see you here for honest debate -- as Helen has said.

I think your view of what people here think and what they stand for has been influenced by what people on the other site say. They call us all kinds of names.

I know people here have said often enough that nobody can come to a conclusion on the available 'evidence'. There has been no poll on here to gauge the degree to which people are 'certain' or 'fence-sitting'. We are all for 'innocent until proved guilty', fairness -- and also pressing the question as to whether the McCanns have been treated fairly by the PJ, press, bloggers etc. Obviously we feel strongly and often emotionally about this.

Whatever. Hope to see you.

Gina said...

Tulip, I am not influenced by what other people say about other people and I wish the name calling would stop, but it will not, so I have definately given up trying to do anything about that.

I think you are I probably understand where we are both coming from and I think you will also agree that some people on both blogs are just too extreme in their views. I am a firm believer in innocent until proven guilty, Unless I have actually seen the evidence for myself I cannot pass judgement on who is at fault, and who is right and who is wrong and I get annoyed when people proclaim everybody is innocent until proven guilty then with any ACTUAL proof sau the PJ are guilty. The only person that is totally innocent without any doubt is poor little Madeleine and that is a fact

mark said...

Hi everyone ,
espeacially "not" MARK55 .
I did think the jokes about the car and doc quack were funny yesterday but cant let you get away with impersonating me forever .
Might have to post you some questions on dentistry to see who is the rael Mark and Im sure Rosie remembers how old my oldest daughter is from the DE days .

Mandz said...

Gina,
Mandz - I was not questioning why no one saw an abductor I was questioning how he managed to climb out of the window, with a child, with the blinds in the way and without leaving a shred of evidence, ie. fibres, prints etc. I am not saying it was impossible but how he did that without M. waking I really do question.
***********************************
Who knows Gina maybe she was passed out of the window onto another abductor? Maybe they were wearing gloves? As for collecting evidence there have been many reports about that and it is common knowledge of the catalogue of errors made by PJ in the beginning and forensic experts have commented on the errors made…

Gina said...

Mandz, I do not want to be picky, but you do not wear gloves on your feet, and to pass a child out of a window without any trace of a hair, fibres, DNA etc. is highly unlikely. However as you say, perhaps the PJ were incapable of collecting that sort of evidence, although alledgely they managed to collect blood samples etc. inside the property. Not necessarily related to the incident, but could have been there due to a wound from a cut knee of something.

Mandz said...

Gina,
You can be as picky as you like however as I said catalogue of errors made by PJ in the beginning and common knowledge. Yes if there was blood and it was say a droplet then one would suspect perhaps this came from a nose bleed? I suppose it depends if this is actually her blood, quantity and blood splatter pattern.

Agree to disagree...

Mandz said...

Mark are you saying you are the real Mark55 DX?

mark said...

Gina
Without wanting to sound biased , hasnt all the "supposed " evidence that the pj have to incriminate the McCanns come from the uk police .Perhaps the pj didnt find any evidence of an abductor because they didnt look properly . Before you say I'm xenophobic, I'm a critic of all police forces when they get it wrong , including the uk . look at Colin Stagg .

mark said...

MANDZ
Why someone has cloned me , I dont know but I am definitely Mark55 from the EXPRESS and the poster who has my avavtar on his blogger profile is a fake .

Mandz said...

Well Mark what do you think of the case so far and where have you been?

Tulip said...

Gina, just one point, which I think I've made before.

It is one thing to libel the McCanns without evidence, and quite another to slate the PJ. The PJ
a) have been publicly criticised by their own when Amaral left.

b) are civil servants -- servants of the public who pay their salaries. They are therefore answerable and have to prove they ARE doing their jobs properly.

Imagine having an employee who has failed to deliver what is required of him/her. Lots of noise but no results. You call them in, as is your right, and say 'You are not doing your job properly -- it's been nearly a year now and I see no results'

To avoid being sacked it's for the employee to show what he/she has achieved. He/she can't just say 'Trust me, I'm getting there --I'm doing a great job and a big breakthrough is imminent.'

You might initially give him/her a chance for another month -- but a year??

And yes Mark, we are entitled to criticise the British police when they get it wrong and call them all kinds of names -- many have done.

Tulip said...

Mark, I did wonder what a dentist was doing cleaning his car and mowing the lawn in normal surgery hours!

Gina said...

Mandz I am not agreeing or disagreeing I am saying I just do not know and have been trying to think it truth without being influenced by anybody or being biased either way.

Mark like you, I am a critic of any police force when they get it wrong, but not until the fact is proven that they have

Gina said...

Tulip sorry I am not really sure I understand what you mean. Re the McCanns being libelled, I presume you are referring to the papers. Well of course it is wrong, but not unique many others have had the same treatment and usually as a result of becoming too high profile in the first place, which I have always said was a big mistake.

Regards the PJ, well what can I say if Amaral is a bad cop that does not mean all the rest are. One of my friends spent several years dealing with police corruption and believe me it exists in the UK, but we still respect the work of the rest

Gina said...

PS, Tulip do not forget the system is different in Portugal, it is not the PJ who decide if they have enough evidence to proceed or when charges should be made, it is the courts. A strange way of doing things IMO, but it is the way it is. So for all we know the PJ want to get on with it and are being prevented. So the finger and blame is being pointed at the wrong department IMO

Tulip said...

Sorry Gina. What I meant was this: it is one thing to say the PJ have made everything a shambles, as they are fair game in their position. It isn't like libelling a private person.

It's like politicians -- they set themselves up for it as servants of the public. Think of the 'Tony Bliar' jeers -- how could HE sue???

I do not think that the McCanns' choosing a public profile in order to raise awareness of Madeleine should make them targets of venom or libel. And it is clear to me that the PJ have played a major role in this. Put up or shut up, PJ.

Oh I see you posted again. I don't know the structure of the law in Portugal. There is something very wrong with it anyway, with all this so-called 'secrecy'. Many leaked comments we know have come specifically from the PJ; comments such as 'over-hasty' on the other hand, together with cautionary remarks, have come from senior figures in the justice system.

Btw it's also the courts here (ie prosecutor) who decide whether a charge should be brought. The police simply hand over the evidence. It isn't for them to leak all these comments against the McCanns. Not for anyone unless charges are brought.

Tulip said...

Gina, I may be wrong about the system here. I think the police can charge but before it goes to court the prosecutor has to agree that there is a case.

Anyone got the definitive answer?

Christabel said...

Gina,

Could you tell me how you came to the conclusion I think you are Gonc and passed this info to all your friends?
You see that is how you cause trouble on both blogs!
You do not think first but post before finding out.
Most of the posters on here know very well who I think Gonc is and it is certainly not you.
So I would be interested to know how you came to think I meant you.
I have my OWN opinion and am not swayed by anyone else, you only need to ask my friends on here about that, If they don't like it they lump it, and they know this.
So Gina please ask before jumping to conclusions, it would save a lot of ill feeling from both blogs.

Gina said...

Tulip I am not good at explaining procedures so will leave it to someone else. Was only making the point that the system is different in Portugal

Now you have just overstepped the mark by saying "Think of the 'Tony Bliar' NO I cannot and will not it has taken me months to forget all about him. Off to cook dinner have a good evening all

Tulip said...

Bye Gina

Mandz said...

Tulip

It’s the same here a charge first then it goes to the Prosecutor who decides if this should go to Court.

Gina said...

Christabel, rightly or wrongly I came to the conclusion it was me because I had just posted about the PJ and wondered why you should mention Gonc at that point. It is not as if any other person was posting such comments too. Secondly I mentioned no names on the other blog and just made a joke of it. I was quickly informed I am not Gonc because apparently Alsabella is. As if any PJ officer has the time to sit on a blog all day, I am not going to buy that one, it is beyond silly.

Off to cook dinner

Mandz said...

Bye Gina....

Christabel said...

Gina,
I don't buy that either.
If you had read my post properly, it started

I see the leaks are in the news again.
These were leaked deliberately last week and IMO it was the PJ AGAIN !

You said nobody else had mentioned the PJ and leaks, well sorry my reply was to Rosie's post, not yours and she did mention PJ and leaks, so you were wrong there.
If you look back you will see Rosie's posts regarding this.

You said you made a joke of it, Gina you know very well they don't take things like that as a joke.
Anyway Gina I am not going to argue with you, as nothing changes my opinion.

If Rosie, Tinks or Sass want to do anything about my posts they are more than welcome.

Gina said...

Christabel something as silly as that is not worth arguing over IMO but if I have offended you I apologise. Remember one thing though, others read this blog even if they do not post on it so they will say and post what they think anyway. I prefer to make light of silly issues like that and move on.

helenm said...

Hi folks,

Just had a thought (ok I know I don't have them too often!!) but I had forgotten the reporter who had the details of witnesses earlier in the investigation. Christabel's post of 11.47 reminded me. If she had these details allegedly given to her by Goncalo Amaral, how do we know that she didn't have access to the full statements? As I said just a thought. Promise not to have many more!!LOL

I have it from a good 'source' ha ha! that up until recently the police were able to charge anyone of an offence and the ultimate decision to prosecute rested with the Crown Prosecution Service. (they are used to oversee all charges brought before the courts) That is about to change in some cases and may already have, that the police themselves will be able to take that decision.

helenm said...

Forgot to say that I was referring to procedures in Britain NOT Portugal.

Rosiepops said...

Hi Everyone

Just a quickie, must go and finish a few chores and put the dinner on.

Gina,

Just read that you are under the impression that Christabel thinks you are Gonc? I can tell you I know who she thinks is Gonc and I agree with her, it may be and this is not silly wild guesses, this is over something absolutely concrete that just could not have come from anywhere else and directly concerning this one person and it is definitely NOT you.

Back soon!

Tulip said...

Thank goodness the Gonc identity topic has been cleared up. I couldn't see where Gina got that impression from. I thought maybe I'd missed something, but if not someone would be along to put her right.

Quite honestly I don't see Gina in that role!!

SwedishMum said...

Evening all!

Just popped in to say hi and "thank god you don't think Gina is Amaral". I couldn't possibly believe that with all her cleaning tips :-)

And Tulip, thanks for your very nice words, I almost got lumbago though when I was bowing. Btw, I wouldn't mind some more cockney lessons (hope you read this too Gina).

Tulip said...

Helen, thanks for that info about prosecution.

Also for the comment re the reporter ... food for thought.

Tulip said...

Hello Swedish, maybe the cleaning tips came from Mrs Amaral.
I believe the PJ wives play an vocal role in their husbands' working lives!

My stock of Cockney rhyming slang is limited -- I keep hearing of new ones I hadn't encountered before.

But don't worry, Swedish, you would never be mistaken for a Cockney Muvver;you can get by fine without it.

Tulip said...

Calcite, going way back to an earlier comment of yours, I agree that I can't see how either witnesses OR arguidos could be given a copy of their statements for all the reasons you state.

Do we know for a fact this is the case?

SwedishMum said...

Tulip,

It would be nice to be able to try the dialect though :-)

Christabel said...

Hi Tulip,

there is no Mrs Amaral, at least with Gonc lol, they are divorced.

I think things should be read properly first then commented on.
Then there would be no need for things to be cleared up.
This will no doubt go on all night now.

I posted to Rosie at 11.47 this morning it is now 19.18 lol !

Tulip said...

Swedish, if you mean the Cockney 'dialect', it is still going strong in the East End of London, but apart from the rhyming slang it's more a matter of pronunciation and intonation. I don't come from London but examples are saying 'v' instead of 'th' (muvver), losing l's (miwk instead of milk) and abah' i' instead of about it.

Nowadays lots of young people in London and the South East -- including the so-called Upper Classes (!) make a point of talking English with a touch of Cockney; this is artificial but trendy and is known as Estuary (i.e. Thames estuary) English.

Don't try to learn it -- have another delicious plateful of salty herring!!

Tinkerbell43 said...

Evening All,

Well if nothing else, this latest leak blows one of the ridiculous conspiracy theories out the window, Madeleine couldn't have died on the 2nd.

Does anyone think the PJ's denial of these leaks was a bit quick. I've never seen them move this fast in 11 months, lol.

Tulip said...

Christabel, wot, no Senhora Amaral? No trouble and strife?

Aah, poor Gonc. That's why he overeats.

I think the ID issue has now probably been put to bed!

Tinks, how true!

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hey Tulip.

We also drop our H's alot. As in are you avin a larf! Oops SM, nuffink meant by that.

Tinkerbell43 said...

SM,

Trouble & strife = Wife.

Skin and blister = sister.

Dog & Bone = phone.

You'll wish you never asked, lol.

SwedishMum said...

Tulip,

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I virtually only eat salty herring twice a year, at Christmas and on Midsummer's Eve. But when I eat it I like it. Though I wouldn't want to have it once a week.

Tulip said...

Tinks, you are obviously far better qualified to instruct Swedish in Cockney.

I'm sure you don't refer -- as some do -- to dropping your Haitches??

SwedishMum said...

Thanks Tinks!

You obviously don't know me at all :-)

Christabel said...

Hi Tinks,

Not very clever are they these PJ.
They have more leaks than Wales lol.

It was denied quickly wasn't it ?
This was leaked as soon as Rebelo was on the plane.
This was the plan,while the mice are away the cats will play, and why did Rebelo go home a day early ?

Christabel said...

Tinks,
you forgot the apple and pairs lol.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Christabel,

There had to be some reason for Rebelo to leave early. Why would the Head of the investigation, who has not previously met the main witnesses, not stay to complete the interviews. I thought that was the main objective above everything else. We'd read about it for long enough!

Did you know, Rebelo is allegedly very close to Ribeiro. I wonder if he shares the "too hasty" opinion!

Tinkerbell43 said...

Christabel,

clever clogs :0)

Tulip said...

Tinks, that early return surprises me too. After all, they were talking threateningly about being in the UK for months if necessary!

Christabel said...

Tinks,

he probably had to go back to shut them up.
Yes I knew he was close to Ribeiro, but is he also close to Gonc ?
He still has friends in the PJ that will lie for him IMHO.
Gonc is one man I would not trust with a dog, let alone women and stairs.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Christabel,

Does he have any friends left that aren't standing trial then ? lol.

Joking aside, I do not trust him one bit either. I read a comment earlier that imo says it all. Combine his alleged history with his recent antics and he sounds like one very dangerous guy.

2 missing child cases.
Neither child found.
Both sets of parents blamed.
Same Officer in charge!

IMO it stinks.

Tulip said...

Tinks and Christabel

I would hate to find myself across a desk from Amaral for whatever reason.

Christabel said...

Tinks and Tulip,

He has the friends he was in cahoots with re Joanna's mom.
Have you noticed all ex PJ are in something or other.
Good name Tinks, dangerous Gonc.

Tulip,
There's more chance of being across a table from Gonc than a desk ( Lunches )lol.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Tulip,

I agree, I would imagine he is very frightening. In fact, I get the impression the whole set up is intimidating and they have been a law unto themselves for a very, very long time!

I get the distinct impression they are feared. I've never heard of someone setting a stall up for people that were too scared to go to the police. You have to ask why?

Tulip said...

Off topic I know, but I see that there are now serious reservations about the Meredith Kercher case in Perugia.

Now police are wondering if it was robbery?

Can you believe it?

Tinkerbell43 said...

Tulip,

I cant comment, I haven't been following that case. This is enough for me, lol.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Christabel/Tulip

The thing is, it wasn't only Gonc, his number 2 in charge at the time, the one that allegedly accused Kate of being involved in Madeleine death, is also on trial for trying to torture a suspect into confessing. And the accusations of what he is supposed to have carried out are brutal.

Can you imagine how Kate must have felt being in the same room as them. Yet she didn't crack.

No wonder the number 2 asked to take leave after, he probably thought, sod this, I'm in enough trouble as it is, lol.

Tulip said...

Tinks -- yes this is a time of specialisation!

Tinkerbell43 said...

LOL, just had a read of the Vilest blog on the net, and they have a replacement for Mrs Consecutive,
just when you thought it couldnt deteriorate any further up pops BATH THEORY. For anyone suffering from insomnia, you will be cured!

Tulip said...

I wondered where Baththeory had gone. Mr '99% of my Catholic community believe ...'

helenm said...

Hello ladies,

Glad to see you are enjoying yourselves. Sorry to pour cold water on your theory Tinks (well not me in particular, but other posters on TWS)they are of the opinion that the statements were leaked specifically by the 'Mccann team' in order to allay suspicion that Madeleine did in fact 'die' on the 2nd and not the 3rd.

Christabel, you are a star!

Not very clever are they these PJ.
They have more leaks than Wales lol.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hi Helen,

They were also of the opinion 2345 was of sane mind. Say no more, lol

helenm said...

Tinks,

Your saying she's NOT!!!!!!

Christabel said...

Helen,

I see you liked that one ?
I know it should be "leeks" but they get stuck in the colander lol.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Back in a minute!

Gina said...

gawd blimey Swedish, yer don't wanna be filling yer ed wiv a loada cockney rabbit, you av ter wirk rill ard to learn the lingo. Need to start at burf

I shut me finger in the door of me jam jar so it erts to type. Me mince pies are sore so going to get some bo peep now :-)

helenm said...

Flippin eck Gina, I 'speak' English and don't understand a word youv'e just said!!!LOL

helenm said...

Don't know whether you have all seen this from Daily Mirror today:

'Police in Portugal yesterday insisted they will solve the Madeleine McCann mystery.

Faro police chief Guilhermino Encarnacao promised the investigation would "bring results, whoever they hurt".

He spoke after officers travelled to Britain to question the Tapas Seven - the friends Gerry and Kate McCann dined with on the night Madeleine, four, disappeared. Dr Encarnacao said: "Everything's going well. The inquiries carried out in the UK are progressing in the best way possible."

But the president of Portugal's Bar Association criticised the police investigation and said his country's legal system was out of date.


Antonio Marinho e Pinto said: "They have reached a dead end and don't know how to admit it."

This must have been a severe blow for the PJ if this is true.
.................................

Quote:"bring results, whoever they hurt".

Sounds like sour grapes to me, all he needs to complete it is to throw his dummy out of his pram!

Rosiepops said...

gawd blimey Swedish, yer don't wanna be filling yer ed wiv a loada cockney rabbit, you av ter wirk rill ard to learn the lingo. Need to start at burf

god blimey Swedish, you do not want to be filling your head with a Load of cockney talk, you have to work real hard to learn the language. need to start at burf? (what is burf?)

I shut me finger in the door of me jam jar so it erts to type. Me mince pies are sore so going to get some bo peep now :-)

I shut my finger in the door of my car, so it hurts to type. My eyes are sore so I am going to get some sleep now.

I still do not know what burf is, my partner is a true cockney and he doesn't know either! LOL

Gina said...

Helen - translation

Good heavens Swedish you do not want to fill your head with a load of cockney talk, you have to work really hard to learn the language. You need to start a birth.

I shut my finger in the door of my car and it hurst to type. My eyes are sore so I am going to get some sleep now

Really am, nite all

Tulip said...

BIRTH, Rosie, BIRTH!

Well done Gina -- what a performance!

Tulip said...

Helen, the comment from the Bar Association guy is very telling.

Rosiepops said...

Helen

Of course Antonio Marinho e Pinto is right, we have all known this for a very long time, it is almost 11 months on and there have been no charges, the PJ are in a dead end and they have to admit it, they cannot keep Kate and Gerry as suspects when they have no evidence and they know it.
The arguido status is soon to be lifted.

But where does this leave Madeleine?

The pained themselves into a corner and a couple of us have been saying this for months!

Gonc started this nonsense and Rebelo ran with it, they gambled on the DNA evidence and they lost and now they do not know how to get out of it and still keep face.

News PJ you can't, so just own up and admit you got it terrible wrong, that you have made the lives of these people a living nightmare at a time when they were in deep distress, time for you to apologise PJ and put your cards on the table.

Gina said...

Tulip/Rosie, me dad came from Bow and me mum from poplar but I was born in artfordshire. Mum fort I ad a speech problem, but the doc told er I was speaking wiv a cross between east end and artfordshire accent. I speak terribly posh now but it is a waste of time because the Spanish cannot understand me.

Rosie homework for tonight, I want to know by the morning what a pony, monkey and gorilla are. Single words, not like pony and trap (don't need to lower the tone)

Really must go now sooooo tired

helenm said...

Where the bloody hell is Poplar?

Now them I do know!! Pony, Monkey and Gorilla. Can I tell please?

Rosiepops said...

well burth is not cockney rhyming slang, burth is just dialect. LOL

I have to live with someone that speaks like this all the time. We both originate from London. Yet speak completely differently. he is from the East End and born within the sound of Bow Bells and I am from North West London.

So near yet a completely different accent, I have always found this strange.

Rosiepops said...

Gina

Have you picked up the Spanish accent yet? That should be interesting a cross between Spanish and cockney "init a geezer?"

Tulip said...

On the other site, Gina is being treated with suspicion; Viv and Claudia are exchanging salacious remarks about the irresistible attractions of Gonc; and barftheory is ... well just full of it. A worthy replacement for Ms Consecutive. His speciality seems to be government plots rather than forensics.

Tulip said...

Poplar is in East London Helen. Now do tell about gorilla etc

helenm said...

Only because you have insisted Tulip!!!LOL

Pony £25
Monkey £100
Gorilla£1,000

Rosiepops said...

Anyone that is capable of holding a conversation with us is treated with suspicion, I don't think Gina will let it bother her too much, she is quite capable of sticking up for herself.

I'll make it easier for her I think Gina is a very lopsided fence sitter LOL Gina your toes are clinging onto the fence for dear life yet the rest of your body is in the anti camp.

Now gina is going to come and tell me off!

Rosiepops said...

gotta a pony in me pockit!

Tulip said...

Of course Helen -- I've heard the phrase 'pony up' and knew it 'ad somefink ter do wiv money!

Rosiepops said...

Well I think the vile site talks pony and trap meeself!

Tinkerbell43 said...

What is Pork & Cheese ?

Gina said...

Rosie me old mucker I am too knackered to argue wiv anyone.

Glad you did that helen I cannot find a pound sign on my Spanish keyboard.

It is now past midnight, and I have turned into a pumpkin now and am rolling toward the bedroom :-)

helenm said...

Sneeze??????????

Rosiepops said...

Tinks

PMSL!!!!!

Tinkerbell43 said...

Helen,

I think Rosie got it in one, lol.

Tulip said...

Well, guess what? Marga is talking about leeks.

Rosiepops said...

Gina now i am speaking in my posh London accent.

Goodnight see you tomorrow, sleep well.

helenm said...

That's just not cricket tINKS!!!

Rosiepops said...

Tinks

That was naughty dropping that one in

Pork and cheese..... Portuguese!

Tulip said...

I'm off too. Good night everyone.

dianeh said...

Gina

An article out today says that M3 did interview the McCanns but this interview was forwarded to the PJ. So they also had a copy of the M3 interview.

So it is a furfy to suggest that the PJ didnt have this exact interview to release. They did. But of course they can claim it is not part of the official transcripts, as they are not. So they wont be in the file when it is is opened, will they. But the PJ have the transcipts. I of course have no proof except what I read in the article this morning. Daily Mail


Here is the quote.

"It is understood that after they were interviewed by the police, secondary interviews were conducted in English with Mr and Mrs McCann by private investigators for the couple's own security and that these were passed to the police. "

And on giving the arguidos their statements. In other countries, such Australia and UK, the accused/witness gets to read and sign their statement to verify that it is an accurate portrayal of their testimony. BUT they dont get to take it home. You dont need to take it home. So much for holding any future interviews with any relevance, as I think it would be safe to assume that giving someone their statement allows them to get their 'story' straight the next time they are interviewed.

It is my understanding that in Aust and UK, copies of all interviews and evidence are forwarded to the defence team as part of the pre trial disclosure, to allow for the preparation of a full defence. Evidence (in any form) is not disclosed at any time prior to that. So we are to believe that in Portugal, you cant see the evidence against you (quite rightly) but you can take home transcripts of your interviews, if you are a suspect. Does anyone else see the contradiction here?

Rosiepops said...

Tulip

leaks or leeks?

Gina said...

Rosie to be honest I didn't really understand you would you believe that with all the different nationalities I talk to some call you lot pros and some call you antis. Lets just say I a pro madeleine and leave it at that.

Goodnight all

helenm said...

Night Tulip, Gina, sleep well

Tulip said...

LEEKS, Rosie as in Wales

Tinkerbell43 said...

Nite Tulip, sleep well xx

Gina said...

dinah I am sorry but I really dont want to be rude and not answer you but I am falling asleep. I think I saw somewhere (brain not engaged at the mo) that these statement came not from Metodo but from which ever agency the McCanns used before metodo. But as usual we are now getting conflicting reports coming out so I really do not know where they came from. Just chuck a load of names in a hat and pick one for now, until the truth outs

helenm said...

Just got thrown off!!!

Diane, what is a 'furfy?' might as well be in a Portuguese lesson for all I am understanding tonight!

Tinkerbell43 said...

Well I'm brown bread on me plates of meat so I'm gonna hit the sack.

Nite everyone, enjoyed this evening.

See you tomorra xx

helenm said...

Nite Tinks, sleep well.

Rosiepops said...

Hi Diane

I think see the contradiction.

I also see how the PJ thought they would be clever in doing this but again this is going to turn around and bite them really badly on the bum, as M3 forwarded their transcripts to the PJ, so the person that leak this must have had access to both statements! So this narrows down considerably who made the leak!

Again if the person that made the leak was only privy to the M3 statement, then this would narrow it down further!

If it is not a PJ leaking this, then my money is on the translator who would have had access to both statements!

Someone is going to get the sack over this, whoever it is!

I still want to know who leaked this:

"The first public indication of police thinking came at the end of June when the magazine Sol published a story about the McCann group, casting doubts on their evidence and claiming they had undertaken a pact of silence. It was the first time the McCanns’ friends had been named in public, but Sol’s journalist Felicia Cabrita had their names and phone numbers and details from their witness statements. She had called them all, and at least one other witness, Jes Wilkins.

The information had been handed to Cabrita by the police – she says she acquired the material through good journalism, which in a sense it was – and her source is widely believed by her colleagues to have been the former head of the inquiry, Goncalo Amaral."


There have been too many leaks from the PJ and there MUST be a full and open public inquiry into the entire way this investigation has been handled and it must be done by independent investigators and it must be done soon!

helenm said...

Now here's a good one for you that are awake.

In Portuguese fingers are dedos
feet are pes, guess what toes are?


DEDOS DOS PES - fingers of the feet!!

Rosiepops said...

Night Tinks and please do not go out on the highway tonight, remember you are allowed to have a night off!

Sleep well take care xxx

Rosiepops said...

blimey Helen how would they "swivel" then?

Rosiepops said...

Helen perhaps it is a potato?

I just got Googled off too!

helenm said...

Got it, no thanks may I add to Diane!!!!

Furfy is rumour.

helenm said...

Rosie, bet it's Sassy. Where is she by the way?

Rosiepops said...

I would find it amazing if the this leak came from the agency the McCann's hired before M3, simply because I believe they are still retained by them! And they have been so quite they have not made one press release or statement, why would they start now?

PJ leaked this and they panicked and made a statement about it because they knew it had spectacularly backfired on them!

dianeh said...

Rosie

I doubt it is a translator. They also shouldnt have their own copy of the transcript.

My theory is that the transcript that the Spanish journalist has is the M3 one. Leaked by the PJ (by any one of a number of methods) to discredit the McCanns at that crucial time and used the M3 version so they would be accused of the leak, instead of the PJ.

Rosiepops said...

Helen

Sass has run away with George Cloony!

dianeh said...

Rosie

Great minds think alike. Or at least 'our' minds.

We are probably just clones of each other.

Sass said...

George Clooney bored me, so I'm back. Told him I had to wash my hair.

dianeh said...

Helen

Furfy is misleading, leading one down the garden path etc.

Slightly different meaning over here, I think.

helenm said...

Thanks for that Diane.

Sassy, George Clooney is mine!!! all mine!!

Sass said...

Helen

You can have him! Just remember I rejected him so you could!

Am off now - see you!

x

helenm said...

I'm off folks, sleep well for those about to go to bed, happy posting Diane.

calcite51 said...

Hi, Diane, Rosie, Sass - no news, eh?

Yes, I read the comment about the one of the police saying they were close to solving the case - I think heard that one in June or July last year. Believe it when I see it.

Gina said...

Just read back on my ramblings last night and realised the many mistakes I made with "me cockney". I was tired and was not thinking clearly. I think blimey was once blind me but many have forgotten its orgination. Did a couple of other things wrong to, so this morning I managed to find this on google, so you can all become experts if you want.

http://www.cockneyrhymingslang.co.uk/

Minute For Madeleine McCann

Locate IP Address on Map