Sunday, 20 April 2008

Madeleine special investigation: The damning case against the Portuguese police - and how Kate and Gerry are coping one year on

By DAVID ROSE (Last updated at 23:27pm on 19th April 2008)

This article is an extremely revealing report and carries some startling information such as information about: a copy of the formal indictment against Amaral, and his subordinates, the PJ inspectors Paulo Pereira Cristovao, Leonel Marques, Paulo Marques Bom and Antonio Cardoso. Obtained by the Daily Mail and also other information about one Michael Cook who was found guilty of murdering a child just outside Praia da Luz.
This report is long, but it is a MUST READ. (Thanks Christabel for giving us the link.)

Almost a year after Madeleine McCann disappeared from apartment 5A at the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz, signs on the ground in Portugal of the search for her or her body have become difficult to detect.

The posters and fliers bearing her photo are almost all gone.

All last week in Luz, I saw the police just once - two uniformed officers in a green 4x4, parked opposite the fateful flat from which she vanished during the evening of May 3.

The vehicle's doors were open and the two men peered at me listlessly while I made a few notes, before going back to their business: listening to a radio talk show.

The apartment gate was padlocked, but in the little paved front yard, a purple hibiscus and some dusty geraniums were coming into bloom. The Algarve spring is finally coming.

"It's a new season," said a British woman who works in a local restaurant.
"It's tragic they haven't found Maddie. But the time has come to move on."


Of course, moving on is one thing Madeleine's parents, Kate and Gerry, cannot do.
They remain arguidos, official suspects, - as does Robert Murat, a British expat living in Praia da Luz who has strenuously protested his innocence - still supposedly being investigated on the grounds that they may have caused her death or disappearance.

"Intellectually, they have grasped what has happened," said Gerry's elder brother, John. "Emotionally, they have learnt, to an extent, to cope: one's psychology adapts.
"But they haven't really come to terms with it. There are times when they can seem cheerful, but then the devastation bursts through. Madeleine's disappearance is a cataclysm that is horrendous for them, and horrendous for all of us close to them."


"It's an intense, full-on existence for both of them," said the McCanns' spokesman, Clarence Mitchell. "Gerry is back at work [as a cardiologist] full-time, but when he gets home the campaign to find Madeleine is like having a second job.

"Kate is determined to make family life for the twins, Sean and Amelie, as normal as possible.
"They celebrated their third birthdays in the way you'd expect - though since Madeleine went, they haven't celebrated anything else: Kate's recent 40th passed without being marked.
"But the truth is, it can't be normal. The whole situation dominates every aspect of their lives."


Last week, amid a bitter, public row between Mitchell and the Policia Judiciaria (PJ) over the leaking of Kate and Gerry's original interview statements to a Spanish television station, it became clear that the long-vexed relationship between the family and Portuguese detectives is close to breakdown.

Mitchell's insistence that the leak did not come from the McCanns sounds more than plausible: the statements' emergence overshadowed Kate and Gerry's visit to Brussels to call for a Europe-wide "amber alert" system to aid the hunt for other missing children.

Instead of their campaign, news coverage was dominated by the statements with the agonising detail that on the morning of the day she vanished, Madeleine asked Kate why she had not come to comfort her and the twins when they cried for her the previous night.

As on the evening of May 3, Kate and Gerry had been having dinner with their friends in the Ocean Club's tapas restaurant - in partial sight of apartment 5A.
However, the Portuguese police detectives' union, which has been a semi-official conduit for detectives' opinions about the McCanns for months, responded to Mitchell's demand for an inquiry to discover whether the leak had come from the PJ by calling him a "Machiavellian liar".
According to the union, the McCanns leaked the statements - with the sole aim of damaging the Policia Judiciaria.

Last autumn, after the McCanns were first made arguidos and sections of both the Portuguese and British Press were filled with untrue stories about them, apparently from police sources, relations with the PJ hit a low.

In October, after the first Madeleine investigation leader, Chief Inspector Goncalo Amaral, was fired from the case for telling a Portuguese reporter the British police were 'shielding" the McCanns, their trust in the PJ improved.

"For a while, the leaks and smears stopped," Mitchell said. Amaral, meanwhile, was last month committed for trial for alleged perjury arising from his conduct in another, earlier case of a disappearing child.

However, now the relationship is back at rock bottom. "The Portuguese justice minister needs to get a grip on his police force," Mitchell told The Mail on Sunday.

"We are confident those statements came from someone in the police chain. It's not just disappointing that after nearly a year, there is no sign of Madeleine: it's an absolute tragedy."

If the PJ had been "doing its job properly", Mitchell continued, the McCanns would never have felt compelled to engage the Barcelona private investigation agency Metodo 3, on which the Find Madeleine campaign has already spent £200,000. "Not a penny would have been spent on the private investigators," he said.

Chief Inspector Goncalo Amaral, who was fired from the McCann case
To Mitchell, the recent PJ visit to Britain to reinterview the McCanns' seven friends who were dining with them on the evening of May 3 was a diversion from what should be the inquiry's main thrust, finding Maddie:


"All of them put their case forcefully, saying nothing had changed from when they made statements first time around. The re-interviews suggest the PJ has nothing substantive to go on."

Mitchell said the PJ's performance meant the time had come for an "international inquiry" into their handling of the Madeleine case. "What we want is not just an investigation of this latest leak, but a much wider inquiry into their conduct.
"It's the sort of thing that could be done peer to peer - maybe by officers from Europol, someone senior from Scotland Yard, or the FBI. It's not about blame, but learning the necessary lessons."


It is an extraordinary demand, born of exasperation, which is certain to be resisted in Portugal. Yet an examination by The Mail on Sunday of the PJ's record --not only in its failure to find Madeleine, but in the previous two Algarve cases where children have disappeared or been murdered - suggests it may well be justified.

"You have to remember: until 1974 Portugal was a dictatorship," said a veteran Algarve journalist, who asked not to be named. "That was the climate in which the PJ was created. Their methods were pretty rough."

Brutal treatment of suspects was routine.
One expatriate British woman told me how a friend of her mother had been arrested in the late Eighties on suspicion of breaking and entering a house - only to be savagely beaten in custody.

"She was bruised all over her body. Of course, the police said they hadn't done anything, and were never called to account," the woman said.
"This is Heartbeat country," another expat said. "People talk to the police, and so often they think they know who's guilty, but can't prove it. So they make an arrest and turn up the pressure in the hope of getting a confession."

In the Portuguese criminal justice system, confessions are still regarded as they were in the days of the Inquisition - as the "queen of proofs". British police, it has to be said, sometimes used to operate in a similar way.
But it has its drawbacks, as shown by the succession of miscarriages of justice based on false confessions, such as the Guildford Four and Birmingham Six IRA cases.

The abduction of a child by a stranger is, mercifully, a rare event: in Britain, there have been about seven cases a year since records were first kept in 1970. But it poses daunting challenges to investigators.

"In these circumstances, having close contacts in the community may be of limited help," said Mark Williams-Thomas, a former Surrey police detective and an expert in paedophile crime. "You need to progress scientifically. Above all, you must preserve the scene and every scrap of physical evidence."

It has been widely reported that in the hours and days after Madeleine went missing, the PJ failed to do this, reacting sluggishly to her disappearance and allowing apartment 5A to become contaminated. It was not the first time the PJ has made such mistakes.

Thirty miles east of Praia da Luz lies the resort of Albufeira, where a collection of clifftop villas known as Val Novio was once a thriving development, favoured by British expats.
Now largely abandoned, it was there, on November 19, 1990, that Rachel Charles, aged nine, went missing.

Neil McKay, a Bafta-winning TV scriptwriter who has specialised in factual dramas about crime, was on holiday nearby with his father at the time. "We were sitting in a bar having a beer one evening," he recalled.

"This English guy came in, saying a little girl had disappeared two days earlier but the police were refusing to mount a proper search. He said her family wanted every British tourist or expat to meet on the beach at seven next morning to try to find her.

"So we went. There must have been more than 200 of us. Tragically, it didn't take long to find her body, hidden among some pines."

Len Port, now an Algarve publisher who covered the case for The Portugal News, said: "The police search was highly inefficient, as, frankly, was everything else about the case. The way the police handled it was desperately amateurish - and ultimately, a travesty of justice."

Just as they would later do with the McCanns, the PJ soon hit on a suspect who knew the victim and her family. But according to Port, who attended his trial, it had "no real evidence. It was an unjust trial".

The defendant was Michael Cook, a British expat businessman who had taken part in the search, and in 1992 he was convicted and sentenced to 19 years. Having protested his innocence, he was released in 2002. Last week, he told of his ordeal for the first time.

"This has ruined my life," he said. "I still carry the scars from the six times I was stabbed in prison; as for the times I had the s*** kicked out of me, I long ago lost count."

Following Cook's conviction, his then-Labour MP, Bob Spink, became involved in his campaign. In a Commons debate in 1992, he said: "The only hard evidence linking Cook to the murder was bogus" - a claim by an elderly gardener that he had seen Cook bundling Rachel into his car.

However, Spink said, the police had hidden the fact that tyre tracks left by Rachel's abductor "were of an entirely different type" from those that would have been made by Cook's vehicle.

The PJ, Spink told the Commons, claimed Cook confessed - something he has always denied - and that they had tortured him: "Cook appeared in court, with black eyes and a missing tooth, and he was deeply bruised.

"It is claimed that Cook was hung from an upstairs window by his feet, that his feet were beaten until he could not stand, that he was tied to a chair and beaten, that he was deprived of sleep and that a revolver was forced into his mouth and the trigger pulled in a mock execution."

The PJ also claimed Cook had a record as a paedophile, Spink went on. This, too, was "entirely bogus". The trial judge had asked a PJ witness how he knew this: "The officer replied that someone, unnamed, had told him. The judge accepted that so-called 'evidence' as clear and unequivocal."

It emerged at the trial that while there was no forensic link between Rachel or her clothes and Cook's car, blood had been found under her fingernails - presumably that of her attacker. But when Cook's lawyers tried to obtain it to test it for DNA, they were told the samples had been "lost".
Cook told The Mail on Sunday: "I was with the PJ four days and they gave me no food nor let me go to the lavatory - I literally s*** myself and p****d myself. I was in that state when they first brought me to court.

"What I learnt about Portugal is that once convicted, you never get the chance to get it reversed, because they destroyed the evidence."

Spink, who is still MP for Castle Point, Essex, said yesterday that as the Madeleine case had unfolded, he had become increasingly concerned by the "disturbing parallels' between the way the PJ had dealt with Maddie and the murder of Rachel Charles.
"In both cases, there was incompetence at the outset. And then, having become convinced they had the right suspects, the police seem to have ignored other avenues of investigation - especially the possibility that both were abducted by a stranger."


After the death of Rachel Charles, it was not for a further 14 years that another girl went missing on the Algarve.
On September 12, 2004, Joana Cipriano, aged ten, failed to return to her home in Figueira, near Praia da Luz, from a shopping trip. The parallels with the McCann case are again disturbingly close.

Like the McCanns, Joana's mother Leonor mounted a campaign for her daughter's return. And like them, she and her brother Joao became arguidos. As with the McCann investigation from May until October last year, the man in charge of the hunt for Joana was Chief Inspector Amaral.

According to the Portuguese Press, one factor that influenced his desire to make the McCanns arguidos was Kate's supposedly "cold" demeanour in dealing with police and on television.
In fact, as the photo published on Section 2's Page 1 today makes clear, the first known image taken of Kate on the morning after Madeleine's disappearance, she was distraught.

With Leonor and Joao Cipriano, a similar cod psychology was evident. "Amaral said he made them suspects because when Leonor was on television, she was wearing black, and speaking of her daughter in the past tense," said Sara Rosado, Joao's lawyer.

"But the camera only showed the top part of her body. In fact, she was wearing red trousers.
"The reason why she was speaking of Joana in the past tense was that she was being asked questions in the past tense.
For example, the interviewer asked, 'How did your daughter do at school?' And Leonor answered, 'She was bright, she was doing very well.'"

There was a further parallel with the McCann case - leaks, apparently from police sources, to the media. One of the most damaging, Rosado said, was the suggestion that human blood, probably Joana's, had been found in the Ciprianos' fridge.

It was only when Leonor and Joao went on trial for murder that it emerged that this had never been DNA-matched to Joana and might even have come from some meat.

The Cipriano case, which ended in 2005 with Joao and Leonor being sentenced to 21 years, made Portuguese legal history: it was the first murder trial where, as with Madeleine, no body was found.

According to Rosado, the direct evidence was weak - "all they had against Joao was a witness who said he saw him going up the street carrying a plastic bag . . . the prosecution said that inside was part of Joana's dismembered body."
However, Joao and Leonor both made confessions, which they later tried to retract.

The Mail on Sunday has obtained a copy of the formal indictment against Amaral, and his subordinates, the PJ inspectors Paulo Pereira Cristovao, Leonel Marques, Paulo Marques Bom and Antonio Cardoso.
On March 26, all five men were committed to jury trial by Joaquim da Cruz, an investigating judge. It is expected later this year
.

The indictment, the result of an investigation triggered by a complaint filed by Leonor's lawyer in 2004, alleges that having been questioned for 48 hours, she confessed only as the result of a brutal assault.

The indictment states: "They threw her to the ground, kicked her and hit her with a cardboard tube. They put a plastic bag over her head, made her kneel on glass ashtrays . .. The accused believed that by causing her intense suffering, they would force her to tell them how she killed her child and where she put the body". This she finally did.

The police, it says, later took her to a clinic where her injuries were recorded. But the PJ officers claimed she had sustained them by throwing herself down the stairs, in an apparent suicide attempt.

Amaral faces charges of negligence and falso testimunho - perjury --under Article 360 of the Portuguese penal code, a crime punishable by up to three years in prison.

Cardoso is accused of fabricating a document. Marques, Bom and Cristovao are charged with torture, for which the maximum penalty is five years.

In Britain, it seems unlikely that officers facing charges of this kind would still be on duty, but last week Amaral was at work in the PJ office in Faro. Through his lawyer, Antonio Cabrita, he refused to discuss either the Joana or Madeleine cases.

As for Cristovao, he left the PJ after the Joana case to become a writer. Last year, as a columnist for Diario de Noticias, he became a prolific commentator on the Madeleine inquiry, writing a series of articles apparently derived in part from conversations with his former colleagues.

Last month, with the publication of his book The Star Of Madeleine, currently the Algarve's No3 bestseller, he has mounted a robust defence of the PJ in general and Amaral in particular.
"In the PJ's opinion, everything written about Amaral in the British Press had one purpose - to get him taken off the case," Cristovao's book says.
"He was a piece of meat on the barbecue of the British media, which accused him of drinking too much, dressing badly, having a prominent belly and spending too much time at lunch.
"He was too much the normal Portuguese policeman ... when what the British wanted was the British way of doing things."

The book, much of it composed of a fictional dialogue between two fictional PJ officers, Francisco and Joao, recycles some of the cruelest smears against the McCanns, such as the claim that Gerry did not get sufficiently involved in the children's routines. Such information, it claims, gave the police "an idea how the family functioned".
It also contains details that can have come only from inside the investigation: as a view of PJ thinking, it may well be as authentic an account as has yet been given.

If so, its conclusions are shocking, among them the view that Madeleine is dead and that if her parents did not kill her physically, they did so by their public campaign to find her.

"The publicity given to her face was her death warrant - that's if she really left that apartment still alive," he writes.

Cristovao refused to meet me, saying that too many British journalists were "racist".

But I managed to ask him whether he was not worried that the McCanns might sue him for libel, pointing out that they had been awarded £550,000 against four newspapers last month. "I'm expecting that," he replied. "I've no fear. It will be a big joy."

Visitor numbers on the Algarve are down this year, especially from Britain: since November, said Elderico Viegas, president of the region's tourist board, the fall has been about 12 per cent - not because of Madeleine, but because of the pound's fall in value against the euro.
"I don't think Maddie has anything to do with it," he said. "And that's my view as someone who has worked in tourism for the past 40 years."

At the same time, Viegas admits that the case has done little for Portugal's image.
"I do think it has been mishandled, especially in terms of the way the police and other authorities dealt with the media. Everyone here would like this problem solved, for there to be an answer."

Meanwhile, in Leicestershire, Cristovao's claims notwithstanding, Kate and Gerry McCann get through their days with their hope and belief that in the absence of any evidence of her death, Madeleine is still alive.

"Gerry copes by being active," Clarence Mitchell said, "throwing himself into his work and the campaign."

Kate, he said, was more vulnerable. "She takes the twins to nursery, and much of her time is then taken up with campaigning, too - dealing with emails; meetings with children's groups and supporters.

"But she does have her ups and downs. It might be a particular media report, or some new claim by the PJ that gets to her, and it can take some time to pick herself up."

The twins, Mitchell added, knew what had happened, and sometimes they "called" Madeleine on their toy telephones. "Nothing is hidden from them, and the house is full of pictures of Madeleine."

John McCann said he usually found himself thinking about Madeleine on first waking up. "You do your best to live a normal life, but in the end, you can't. And I'm her uncle. One can only imagine what it's like for Gerry and Kate."

I asked him how Kate and Gerry dealt with the error for which they have paid so heavily.
"Of course they can't help but go over last May in their minds. But in the end, you can't change what happened. What you can do, and what they have been trying to do ever since, is to change the future: literally to keep turning over stones until Madeleine is found.

"Kate and Gerry don't talk about their emotions much. Maybe it's their Scots-Irish and Liverpudlian backgrounds: stoicism is part of our upbringing.
"I don't mean the stoicism where you're ready to accept any old s*** but the stoicism where you try to deal with a problem and get on with it - that dogged determination.

"That's what Kate and Gerry have, and their ability to stay focused and try to help other families who may face a similar plight in future is inspiring."

The Daily Mailvv http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=560696&in_page_id=1879


  • Who do you think was the source for this leak?

  • If the culprit/s are found, what should be done about them?

  • What do you think? Do you think there should be an international inquiry held into the appalling blunders and the absolutely disgraceful way lies, smears and innuendos have been leaked throughout this investigation?

  • The McCann’s and Clarence Mitchell may be correct, it may not be about blame, but I am not so charitable as they. I want to see the PJ blamed for this shambles, this fiasco and I want them punished and the lessons learned, because if they are not punished, how will they learn?

  • If God forbid another child is abducted from her bed in Portugal while on holiday, how will the PJ cope?

  • Despite all what has happened this past year, they appear to have learned absolutely nothing and appear to worry more about their egos, their tourist industry , do you think the PJ are just plain incompetent and have inadequate training or could they be protecting and covering something else? Who knows?

  • Do you think the PJ have learned any lessons?

  • Apparently according to this report, another child went missing and the Portuguese police acted in much the same way as in Madeleine case.
    How can we be assure that Portugal has a proper police force equipped for the £2.8 billion tourist industry, when it has show a remarkable and unjust attitude to such a serious crime as a child abduction?

  • Looking at the case of Leonor Cipriano and another case of Micahel Cook, it concerns me greatly that Portugal seem to be blind not only to the mistakes of their Polcia judiciaria (PJ), but they seem oblivious as to what needs to be done to correct such a barbaric and archaic system, what do you think should be done about the PJ and Portugal’s archaic Laws?

  • Look at the similarities of the torture claims between Leonor Cipriano and Michael Cook. Look at the similairties and the polorization between the Michael Cook case, The Leonor Cipriano case and the Madeleine McCann case and then try to think about the Casa Pia childrens home case that rocked Portugal and is now being heard in SECRET in Portugal.
  • Ask if you agree with Kate and Gerry McCann, that there should be an International Inquiry held into the alleged mishandling of the abduction of Madeleine McCann, from her bed in Praia da Luz, Portugal on the night of May 3rd 2007.
  • Maybe you could write a letter or send off an email to your MP, your MEP, the Prime Minister, The Foreign Secretary David Miliband, The Minister for Justic Jack Straw and the Home Secretary Jacqui Smith and ask that pressure be brought to bear in the European Parliament for an International Inquiry held by Scotland Yard, the FBI and Europol?

Something Needs To Be Done and Remember, Nothing Worthwhile Was Ever Easy! Just giev up an hour of yout time to do this for Madeleine McCann and all other innocent missing children. Because if we work together, something good can come out of this tragic situation.



Dear Kate and Gerry and the entire family,

if you by chance read this, please remember that there are a great many people that believe in you and support you in your efforts for Madeleine to be returned home to her loving family. Please do not, NOT EVER, pat any attention to the sick and twisted minds of some people who have issues of their own to deal with, they are mentally ill and need psychiatric help.

It may be some comfort to you to know, that I have never, not once met anyone in person that believes that you harmed Madeleine is any way and I know that this applies to most of the people that contribute to this blog.

Keep strong Kate end Gerry and you nans, granddads, aunts and uncles, one day soon Madeleine will be home with you, we pray for Madeleine and for you and send you our love and positive thoughts. xxx

176 comments:

dianeh said...

Hi Everyone

Just leaving a post to tell you I havent deserted you. Just been too busy over the weekend to read, let alone post.

I will try to get back on later today, to read through the last couple of days posts to see what has been going on.

I am looking forward to reading today's article in detail.

Cheers

calcite51 said...

Hey, Diane - glad you're here. I was getting worried - hadn't "seen" you for a few days. Hope you are well.

Rosie, this was an interesting topic - I've thought for a long time that the PJ's should have an internal review.

I suspect the PJ's have had quite a few leaks - the latest one is just one of many (imo). If the PJ's were not responsible for the leaks, I am sure they would be demanding a public inquiry (don't hear anything).

calcite51 said...

Viv - you and I have had a few conversations. I read comments that you made about one of your bloggers - all of it may be true. But does it have to be discussed on your blog - how do you know this person doesn't have a family that reads your blog?

If you feel close enough to whoever you mentioned it to, then surely you could have sent them an e-mail.

And I think Claws was obnoxiously rude to that person, too. Claws' mom and dad should have either spanked her or washed her mouth out with soap.

Sass said...

Calcite

Claws' parents should muzzle her.

Sass said...

Diane

Great to hear from you again! Hope everything is going well.

Tulip said...

Hi all

This article has shocked me to the core. Not that it surprises me -- it just sums everything up -- and as for the info about the child who disappeared in the Nineties ...

If everyone SANE and NORMAL with doubts about the McCanns would read this -- and just think.

Good to see you Diane -- hope your little girl is now much better and that your life is easier and less anxious.

I've recently seen you on A's blog (felt I should widen my reading!) and you make excellent points wherever you are.

Rosiepops said...

Morning Everyone

Good to see you pop up Diane, hope you little girl is going from strength to strength xxx

Rosiepops said...

Hi Calcite

Did you get my email?

Hope to speak later.

joanypony said...

Hi Rosie and everyone,

Your letter to the McCann family is excellent Rosie and reflects my feelings exactly.

What an utter disgrace the PJ are, according to the People today the PJ are planning to charge Kate with endangerment, why now, and why not a lot of the parents staying at these holiday sites?

IMO they are doing it now out of complete spite because they have messed up big time on this case and do not know how to get out of the hole they have made for themselves.

After reading the leading article on the blog today I think it is about time that the PJ were taken to task by a higher authority and made to explain their policing methods.

Rosiepops said...

Morning Tulip

Today's report is a shocker isn't it? It threw me a bit too and I already knew quite a bit about the Leonor Cipriano case as I have been researching it for sometime now as for the Michael Cook case, what this man has told this reporter is shocking, absolutely shocking, what the hell is going on in Portugal? It sure explains a lot to me.

Why

Robert Murat's friend 'Tuck Price' decided to give RM an alibi without even telling his friend, he spoke to the PJ and said that Murat was in a bar drinking with the entire evening that Madeleine disappeared, apparently his excuse for this was because he scared that the PJ, would fit his friend up for this crime! Whether this is true or not, after reading today's article you can go some way to understanding why it is he did this (if he did it)

One of the questions I would like answered by the PJ is have they got to the bottom of why it is that Robert Murat 'himself' gave a false alibi? Why he changed his mind and said he was with his mother all night, instead of with his girlfriend, where he had originally said he was?

Why did his girlfriend confirm his alibi until Murat changed his mind about where he was?

Where exactly was Michaela Walzuch on the night of May 3rd? She herself has said she was in a place and this was later refuted by a church elder.

Where was Tuck Price on the evening of may 3rd? Can his alibi be correctly verified?

Why did Robert Murat say to Vanity Fair, that he went to bed around 01.00hrs when he and his mother originally told PJ that he went to bed at around 22.30 and was sound asleep by 23.00, which is why he says he did not here all the furore that was unleashing right outside his home in the tiny and usually deathly quiet Praia da Luz?

Why is Robert Murat starting to sue half the British press for millions, while he is still arguido?

Why is is apparently OK and welcomed by some complete nut cases that he is allowed to make millions out of a missing little girl to personally swell his own personal bank balance?

Why are there approximately 15 witnesses that all state they saw Murat outside apartment 5a on the night that Madeleine disappeared?

Why has the PJ allegedly completely disregarded these witness information?

Is it safe for the PJ to have just completely disregarded 15 people's eye witness statements, especially in view that two people have already given Murat a false alibi and he himself has lied about where he was on that night and apparently he cannot make up his mind what time he went to bed either.

Why did he lie about talking to Sergy Malinka on the phone on the night of May 3rd?

Why did Sergy Malinka lie about talking to Robert Murat on the phone on the night of May 3rd?

So many questions surround this one witness and his associates.

Yet the PJ's apparent answer to this is not to question him in great detail and challenge him to prove his whereabouts and challenge him to explain the lies about his whereabouts, but to fly to London to challenge eye witnesses!

You cannot really make up what looks like a catalogue of PJ errors, could you?

helenm said...

Hi folks,
Just a quick one before I go out for lunch.Look at the following, know it's not a 'real' newspaper but

http://www.people.co.uk/news/tm_headline=mccanns-face-new-charge%26method=full%26objectid=20389183%26siteid=93463-name_page.html

IF true just shows how the PJ need to save face!!

Rosiepops said...

Hi Joany - Brilliant post!

You are right about why the PJ are doing this now, they are doing it because they have messed up big time and they now realise that anyone with half a brain can see that the PJ have messed up big time over this case.

they are also doing it to deflect attention away from the accusations that they leaked that leak about Madeleine last week, at a crucially sensitive time.

The PJ tried to blame Clarence Mitchell and the McCann's for the leak, but have been made to look stupid by the Spanish reporter Nacho Abad who wrote about the leaks, when he stated quite categorically that neither the McCann's or Clarence Mitchell were responsible for this leak!

This statement from Abad came AFTER Carlos Anjos of the Portuguese Police federation made the wholly unprofessional attack on Clarence Mitchell accusing him of telling more lies than he has teeth in his head!

The PJ are floundering, they know it and so does anyone else that is logical and rational, it now appears that their line of defense is to attack and in doing so they are making themselves look worse than they look already (if that was at all possible!
?)

It has been said by some lying Portuguese posters on some blogs that the PJ are elite and they have to go to university to train for their jobs?

What university would that be?

The University of Leaks and Monumental Cock-Ups?

the Pj are a joke, only this is not funny, it is a tragic situation and a little girl is still missing because they callously stopped looking for her in week three of her disappearance and allegedly started to concentrate of pinning this on this poor little mites parents! What chance did Madeleine stand?
What chance did her parents ever stand?

If the PJ insist on going along with this latest round of spite against the McCann's, it can only end in more disgrace being heaped on the already disgraced Portuguese police and it will backfire on them badly, the same as the last leaks did last week.

And who now is responsible for this latest leak to a newspaper? Who is Carlos Anjos going to blame for this Prince Charles perhaps?

What a bloody shambles, what a farce, what a fiasco.

The PJ need to hold their hands up and admit their failures, release Kate and Gerry from this inhumane piece of trials by media torture arguido status and hand the Files over the British police so Madeleine's dis appearance can be investigated properly.

There also needs to be an International Inquiry into the PJ's handling of this whole investigation and the lies, smears, innuendos and leaks coming out of the PJ, which now seem to have reverted to a leak a day again, the same as it used to be under Goncalo Amaral.

joanypony said...

Rosie,

It also seems as though they wish to pile as much pressure on the McCanns as possible, and cause as much pain as possible, which, to me, is completely inhumane.

The similarity in the three cases is unbelievable and yet the PJ are still allowed to get away with it, absolutely disgraceful.

Rosiepops said...

Joany

You are right, they do appear to want to do this, when you read today's article it actually fits in with what they see and appear to use as investigative tools"

This of course is going to backfire on them badly, they are now in this so deep that they cannot view things in persecute and the PJ appear to have completely lost their way and have no idea of how to get back on track.

They are thrashing around in the dark trying to blame everyone else for their mistakes and it is just backfiring on them.

Personally if the British police were behaving like this I would be dreadfully ashamed of them!

I am just out to take my little dog for her 2nd walk see you back soon!

joanypony said...

Rosie,

Sent you an email yesterday, hope you got it.

Having a quick cup of coffee then it's back to the garden, most definitely not in the mood for gardening, but it has to be done. I'm aching all over from the short stint in the garden yesterday!!

joanypony said...

Rosie,

Forgot to say, I had a look at a blog site that someone gave the address for, I have never been so disgusted in my life. The language was atrocious and I really do not think that should be acceptable on any blog.

archer said...

Hello Everyone

Some very interesting and provocative reading !

Joanypony - I also think the pj are deliberately upping the 'spite-ometer' to further crush Kate and Gerry. I don't think that it will go anywhere though. The children were regularly checked on, so how will they 'prove' this? Too much is known by too many for any cloak and dagger stuff in this instance!

The common theme of negligence and brutality from the pj is really something to behold, especially when you see it all laid out like this. Shocking.....but ...." We must remember until 1974 Portugal was`a dictatorship.......that was the climate in which the pj was created. Their methods were pretty rough " ... said the journalist from the Algarve. Huh

I think with the impending court cases the current pj should be sidelined and be seen to be totally accountable for what they do/have done. Good work ethics are usually indicative of good management, poor ethics, poor management.

It is long passed time that something was done to change the status quo here. They may feel that they have come a long way in the last 34years but we can see it's not nearly enough or quickly enough. Certainly not for Madeleine McCann and her family.

Another travesty of justice.

joanypony said...

Hi Archer,

It beggars belief that a police force can get away with such draconian systems in this day and age. The PJ definitely seem to be stuck in the 19th century.

Reading some of the reports it always looks as though the porugese people are afraid to speak to the PJ if they have any evidence etc, I wonder why?

archer said...

Hi Joanypony



I'm sure that was a rhetorical question. :¬))
If things were bad then I reckon they are going to get worse before this is sorted.

Rosie - Some time ago I managed to get onto the Portuguese Police recruitment website. As it was in English I had a good trawl through. Yep, quite clearly it boasted the high levels of intelligence required to join!!

Whether they have tweaked it since I don't know but I haven't been able to get back on it.

Have a go, you may be amazed!

archer said...

Justice at its best.!!

http://www.policiajudiciaria.pt/htm/Ingles/history.htm


Sounds impressive - doesn't it ?

Tinkerbell43 said...

It seems to me the PJ remain a law unto themselves. For much too long they have gone unquestioned. That time is over, there most definately needs to be an International Enquiry into this shambles of an investigation.

I would suggest they start with Gonc, imo a lot of roads lead back to him!

joanypony said...

Hi Archer,

Just had a look on that site, I wonder who wrote that fairy story for them, lol!!!

What is alarming is the number of missing children who have never been found.

Rosiepops said...

I'm back! The little dog is now content and snoozing by the TV, the next thing on her agenda is her dinner and then her short little walk.

ha ha ha My post 13.28, of course I meant Perspective, why the heck I wrote persecute, who knows? Freudian slip perhaps?

Joany

How is your gardening going?

Rosiepops said...

Hi Tinks

You took the words right out of my mouth, all roads do appear to lead to Goncalo Amaral and I now think that things have slipped into such a parlous state that only and international inquiry headed by independent investigators will do.

Something needs to happen here, this fiasco can never ever again be repeated.

Archer,

I tried but couldn't get on! The only qualification it takes to be a PJ allegedly is how to become a stranger to the truth! Oh and a degree in plumbing!

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hi Archer,

Thanks for the link!

"This force is assigned the task of collecting evidence"

Hmm, then how comes so much of it as reported, was missed or fatally compromised ?

How come they failed to secure the crime scene, where evidence would have been rife ?

IMO, They failed at the first hurdle and everything after has been manufactured to cover for their abysmal incompetence!

They should hold their hands up, admit their mistakes and pass this investigation over to the British Police, for once in this sorry state of affairs, they should put MADELEINE first!

joanypony said...

Hi Rosie,

Isn't it nice to have good neighbours. I was speaking to a neighbour who's garden backs onto mine and was saying that I would have to tackle the entangled mess of clematis and honeysuckle branches behind my greenhouse. Came in to have my coffee, went out again and started cutting the branches and lo and behold my neighbour Helen had started at her end, so between us it was done in about ten minutes. I can now reach the rainwater barrel which I haven't seen for about 18 months!!

Did you look at my email?

Gina said...

Not even a degree in plumbing required to join the UK police


Your Questions Answered
These are the most commonly asked questions about a career in the police. If your question is not answered here you should contact your chosen force directly.


Q: What qualifications do I need to join the police service?
A: There are no formal educational requirements for recruitment to the police service but applicants must undergo two written tests to ensure they have a reasonable standard of English and a numeracy test. You will also need to be able pass our selection process and complete initial training.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hi to Thentherewere4.

I've noticed you have made a post this morning but on one of our older topics.

If you would like to come and join in the discussions, go to the front page and click on comments at the bottom of the article published at the top :-)

Gina said...

Helen My sister was suppose to go to her villa in PDL yesterday but the trip was cancelled so cannot first hand (so to speak) confirm a rumour that the road to the Ocean club has been closed off this morning. Also there are a few UK reporters beginning to gather in PDL which seems a bit early for the 1st anniversary. I was wondering if they are going ahead with the reconstruction this morning. Have you seen or heard anything. Off now, will look back later to see if you know anything :-)

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hi Helen,

Have just read the link you provided to The People. If true, its obvious they are hitting out in spite.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm just so glad somebody had the foresight to provide the McCs with the best representation in all areas. Someone obviously knew alot more about what goes on in Portugal then we do/did!

Rosiepops said...

Hi Joany

yes I did thank you and I took a look at that site and was really impressed and am thinking about this for my big old fella! I loved the two on the home page, beautiful.

Great news about your garden and lost water butt! I have to get out in mine this week (garden not water butt!) I could do with having a loan of your neighbour! I have some very unruly honeysuckles and jasmines! I also have a rambling rose which is going off at great speed and is getting its summer foliage on now.

I also agree about what you said about ignoring protagonists, perfect and only way to deal with them I think! Especially when their name begins with a D and ends with an R lol!

I also think that the people living in PDL and around are a bit deluded if they think it is going to remain this quiet, I think the world and his brother will be there come May 3rd! (Not you deluded of course Helen x)

This is why I think the PJ were never really serious about this reconstruction, they were just trying to cause more trouble, the idiots must think we are silly as they if they thought we were going to fall for that one!

Something needs to be done about this man Carlos Anjos, I am wondering if Clarence Mitchell will sue him (I hope he does)

Interesting what Paulo Crsitaovo said about being happy if he gets sued for libel by the McCann's, i really hope they do go for it and wipe the smile off that smug face of his! I think that was bluffology, because from what I can see the McCann's have a cast iron case for libel against that pimp like odious creep.

I would absolutely love it if they moved and had every pennt he has made out of this book frozen and confiscated and also if they got that odious TV series planned for Portuguese sewer TV halted!

Like to see the look on Claws (waves) ugly screwed up face. stop sucking wasps Claw, it doesn't suit you! you old crone. how many euros you earned today? one? I bet that was a sympathy euro too.

Rosiepops said...

Gina

No need for a degree in plumbing to join the British police, as they rarely leak, so do not need something shoved in their flabby cake holes, like the PJ.

If the British police want us to know something they are open and honest, hold a press conference and tell us straight, no ambiguity.

Pity that ramshackle PJ cant.

The only degree needed to join the police in any country should be a degree in common sense, which is obviously patently lacking from the Portuguese police force, that and a degree of humanity!

For God's sake don't walk down the road in Portugal with a plastic bag, if you do you may find yourself in prison doing 16 years, for transporting body parts!
Even though no one bothered to look in the bag!

It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic!

A crash course in DNA and how NOT to throw away vital evidence, would be a good place to start teaching the Portuguese police how to detect effectively too!

Rosiepops said...

Tinks

Exactly so! It appears someone knew the the PJ very well.

I am surprised the McCann's remained in PDL for as long as they did, they must have been very brave, even though they knew they were totally innocent, I am not sure I would have stayed there for as long as they did.

It appears that innocence and guilt do not really come into play in Portugal, the police decide who did the crime, arrest them, make them suspects and then try and make the crime fit them and they do not appear to let a little thing like truth and evidence come into it either.

Poor little Madeleine, poor Kate and Gerry, what chance did they really stand in that God forsaken place?

Gina said...

Rosie if it is proven that the leak came from the PJ then I will agree with you until then I am sticking with the innocent until proven guilty theme for all concerned.

I read in the one paper that Kate is to be charged with endangerment if you can believe what you read in the papers. I thought it was too late for that, but if this is the case then I think that is wrong. They all left their kids (Madeleine was just the unlucky one, any of them could have come to harm in some way) So if they charge Kate, they should charge them all IMO

Tinkerbell43 said...

The thing is Rosie, I believe they totally underestimated the McCs, lets face it, they are not used to people fighting back.

I agree, it appears to me they select a suspect and then try to make the evidence fit, even when there is no evidence!

Admittedly there has been no physical violence against the McCs but I think they have tried to subject them to torment of a psychological kind. For all their intense interrogations of them and using the media to apply the 3rd degree, the McCs still havent cracked.

They have said they would take everything thrown at them and by christ have they, all because they asked for help in finding their daughter. My heart goes out to them it really does.

Rosiepops said...

Gina

I can see why you take that stance, believe it or not when all this started I did not want to believe the worse of the PJ, I actually wanted to believe they were excellent and would try to come somewhere near to solving this. I am not even having a go at them for not finding Madeleine, what really does annoy me is the way they have operated, sorry I am not used to it and it should not be allowed.

There have been too many proven mistakes for me and I think for their own good and not least for the benefit of the Portuguese people, the PJ need to be investigated at the highest level, nothing short of this will do now, it has gone way too far IMO.

If they charge Kate with endangerment this is going to backfire on them so badly, it is going to take a catastrophic situation and turn it into a catastrophically dire one.

Why just Kate? As I remember there were two of them in that marriage! If they charge her then they have to charge all the friends that left children, they also have to charge all those that left children in that complex. Personally I think it is another scurrilous leak put out by the PJ, to divert attention away from the battering they took last week, but they are now in a hole and maybe they should stop digging, if they carry on this is going to have far reaching effects.

also another reason why I think this is just a leaked lie put out by the PJ who are now back to leaking a lie a day it seems, is because if they do charge Kate with endangerment, then this will have to go to court and the McCann's legal team will be able to get their hands on their files and then they will rip the PJ to absolute shreds.

I just defy the PJ to go ahead and do this.

Bet they wont! More scurrilous leaks put out by a panicking PJ, they know they are in deep mire and they are trying anything and everything to regain their lost reputation.

The last thing the PJ want is an International Inquiry but it looks like this is what they will get because someone somewhere has to start listening, the McCann's human rights have been shamelessly abused.

Three names for the PJ.

Michael Cook
Leonor Cipriano
Casa Pia.

The PJ's chickens are all coming home to roost at once, no wonder they are now panicking.

calcite51 said...

Hi, Rosiepops - yes, I've received your e-mail and have responded - thanks for the info.

Gina said...

Rosie I was only commenting on the leak situation regards the PJ. As yet I am not convinced it came from them.

As I said to charge Kate with endangerment IMO is totally out of order, the whole group should be charge if this is the case because they all committed the same offence, which I understand it to be under Portuguese law. I agree if they just charge Kate, I think everybody will unit in saying that is unfair.

Have to go now, have a good evening all

joanypony said...

Rosie,

Well said.

They have to do something soon to move things on, I thought that was the main reason for the requestioning of the Tapas 7, but the thing is they have got absolutely nothing new AND THEY ARE STUCK IN A HARD PLACE and do not know how to get out!

helenm said...

Good afternoon folks,

Rosie, you are a laugh!!! Love this

No need for a degree in plumbing to join the British police, as they rarely leak

Leak, ha ha, plumbers ha ha PMSL

Gina, that was a cheap shot at the British Police. I know of many 'graduates' who have been refused entry into the police. Academic qualifications come second to reasoning skills application of logic and most of all common sense. (that makes 3 doesn't it?) but you know what I mean. My own son has tried on two occcasions to join and I can tell you that the selection process is very rigorous. Obviously I cannot comment on the Portugal Police selection system.

Regarding the road being closed at the Ocean Club, it was not closed this afternoon but I cannot speak for this morning. Had there been they would have got very wet!! There appears to have been no unusual activity in PDL, obviously I am not there 24/7 so report only what I see.

Tinks, IMO the article in the People may be yet another ploy to add to the distress of Kate and Gerry Mccann. After all someone is trying to save face.

Rosiepops said...

Hi Helen

I have been trying to follow your link for ages and still haven't managed it.

Will it lead me to Tubby? all over links and roads seem to lead to him, have you noticed?

Gina thought something was going off in PDL, any news?

calcite51 said...

And if that article is true the PJ's charging Kate with child neglect, then it is very, very wrong. I can't see how they can even charge just Kate. Is Gerry not the father and would he not be charged as well? Oh, I forgot - everything is the Mother's fault.

Rosiepops said...

Helen

I think Gina's resonse was at me because I asked if the university the PJ attended was the

University of Leaks and Monumental Cock-Ups?

Rosiepops said...

(oh and perhaps they went there to get a degree in plumbing for their leaks.)

Gina said...

Hey Helen, don't shoot the messenger, that were not my words I took them of the polices web site

Tinkerbell43 said...

Helen,

I agree. With the first anniversary looming, I would imagine Kate is particularly fragile at the moment.

Rosiepops said...

Joany

One could perhaos have felt a bot for them if the Pj had not behaved in the fashion they did and if it was just one or two errors and leaks, but it is has been mistake after mistake and leak after leak after leak and months of silence bar the bizarre leaks.

but look at how quickly they moved when they knew their leak backfired on them W~O~O~S~H and far from the McCann's getting a bad press, it was the PJ.
Didn't take the PJ long to say "secrecy laws? What secrecy Laws?" did it?

Mandz said...

What can I say…. Anger, disgust, bitter, furious, livid, blood boiling and outraged by this. Why are they in the EU? And now we learn of another case where a man claims he is innocent and got sentenced due to someone (who wanted to “remain anonymous”) saying he saw him put this girl into his van? Joana case “someone” saw them carry a plastic bag? And the Judge accepted this? What sort of people are we dealing with here? What sort of judicial system do you call this?
McCann’s do not go back to that Country and our PM and EU wake up and take action this is beyond belief and Maddie was let down big time………
Never will I step foot in that Country – shove your Tourist Industry and God help anyone in need of help.

Off now for tea feeling sick…….

Rosiepops said...

Calcite

Exactly so! This is just another scurrilous leaking load of doo doo put out by a panicking PJ.

how can they charge just Kate when there were two that did this? They would also have to charge everyone else that did this too and it is just not going to happen.

In some respects if it did, it would play directly into the McCann's hands as they would have to allow the McCann's legals team access to their files and I cannot see that happening anytime soon, because the one thing they do not want is the world knowing they have never had a shred of evidence on which to make the McCann's suspects, in my opinion.

Unless of course the plumbers can no longer keep their fingers on the leaks and they are busting out all over and they have been informed that the McCann's are to see their case files?

This could be a way of trying to get their own back and diverting attention away? Let's face it a court case with the McCann's would be pretty big news!
(But not as big as the their red faces when the world learns how utterly callous and vindictive and totally incompetent the Pj have been)

Why else did Tubby Gonc rush to make them arguidos? Alipio Ribeiro and Pinto have already said if they had waited a further 8 days then it is extremely doubtful that they would have been able to be made arguidos because of a lack of evidence!

All roads lead back to Gonc!

Rosiepops said...

Mandz

My feelings exactly, when I was getting that ready for publishing, I kept getting angrier and angrier, the PJ and Portugal defy belief don't they?

No wonder the Portuguese will not speak out against the PJ, they must be terrified of getting put in court on some trumped up charge!

The only ones speaking out in Portugal are those that hold a right wing agenda and who cannot let go of the past, all this fawning over the PJ makes me feel physically sick and the PJ must be laughing their trousers (and underpants) off at these women! The stupid fawning fools, they do not even realise they are being used and they call us "highway whores?" yeah right.

It is a monumental disgrace and the EU allow a country like this to join the EU?

Bloody disgraceful.

Come on Gordon Brown, Jack straw, David Miliband and Jacqui Smith DO SOMETHING!

helenm said...

Pity Goncalo Amaral did'nt think of this before

'Asked for an interview, Amaral declined to talk, stating that he was bound by the Portuguese judicial secrecy laws.

He has not been suspended and Portuguese legal sources said that even if he were found guilty, it was possible he would not lose his job. '

The above taken from the Mail today.

Rosiepops said...

The McCann's MP is Stephen Dorrell and he was supposed to be writing to the Jack Straw and the PM, I wonder if he has heard of anything yet?

Apparently he is asking for an inquiry into the PJ's handling of this investigation.

The PJ have let Madeleine down repeatedly and what is more heartbreaking, they do not seem to care, all they seem to care about is pinning this on her poor parents, as if they haven't been through enough?

Rosiepops said...

Helen

so what about if Tubby Gonc is found guilty and sentenced to 3 years in prison?

Because in my opinion, if he is found guilty of those heinous charges, he has to go to prison, there should be no alternative!

So please do not tell me that his job would be kept open?

After being found guilty of charges to do withholding information of torture? this would be like putting a flower made of snot on the icing on the cake!

By the way do you know if anything is happening in PDL? Gina thinks there may be something apparently.

helenm said...

Rosie see my post of 17.24 re PDL

Rosiepops said...

Helen

I read somewhere that he has gone back to his other job in the drug squad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

With Jaeo grade (Leonor Cipriano's lawyer) been found *allegedly* smuggling drugs into a prison.

What the hell is going on there? why would a man that is so close to to having a prisoner released from jail and making a legal name for himself jeopardise all this by smuggling drugs into a prison, where he knew there was a distinct possibility that he would get searched and caught?
Especially with his dealings with Gonc in the drug squad?
Why would he risk it?

Also the timing is so suspicious *YET AGAIN*
how convenient this is when the PJ are under such pressure and the world is looking at them with suspicion?

This is so ridiculous, a 6 year old could have worked something more credible than this out!

Rosiepops said...

Helen

thanks for that, well if they would have got very wet this morning this rules that out too!

The GNC and the PJ do not like getting wet, remember they all sat in their cars when they were supposed to be operating a road and stopping all vehicles in and out of PDL, in the early days when Madeleine went missing. It was raining and they preferred to sit in their cars having a smoke rather than get out and stop all vehicles!

So that could not be true then.

helenm said...

Rosie, I see that Amaral has been charged with negligence and false testimony, I suppose it is possible that he could keep his job with regard to the negligence, making him take further studies in addition to his very high degree!!!! in how to run a police department,. However how could he possibly keep his job if convicted of perjury? Honesty is the basis of all good police work, without it you have nothing.

Note in the article that the celebrated Christavao is charged with the actual torture of Leonor Cipriano. Nice man.

calcite51 said...

And what about the other couples that left the children by themselves? They would be charged too.

IMO, the PJ's have proven themselves very inept. And the ex PJ who wrote the book "The Star of Madeleine" has not received as much recognition as he wanted to. As for the American firm negotiating with him to translate the book in English - go for it. The Americans will publish anything as proven when they published OJ Simpson's book. We saw how well that book did.

calcite51 said...

Christavao? Is he the one who wrote the book on Madeleine? If yes, then maybe he'll be writing another book on his experience in jail.

helenm said...

Rosie,
Amaral's lawyer name of Cabrita, where have I heard that name before? Can you help me?

Rosiepops said...

Helen

I noted that about Cristovao, if he is found guilty will he still be able to profit out of a crime he has been convicted of? maybe from prison? I note that he is in danger of getting five years in found guilty!

Re Amaral, it beggars belief doesn't it? Surely a police officer cannot be allowed to continue in post if found guilty of perjury? Perjury concealing that a woman was brutalised by PJ detectives? That has to be a prison sentence!

By the way I read somewhere that if the judge did say that these PJ had to face trial, due to the way the Portuguese legal system works, there would be a good bet that they will be found guilty!

Also it should be noted that one of the three judges that tried Leonor Cipriano has gone on record as saying that he thinks she is innocent!

I hope these b'stards get this judge!

now that would be Karma!

calcite51 said...

Would it not be ironical if they did get the judge who thinks Joanna's mom is innocent. Ah, justice can be so sweet.....

Rosiepops said...

Helen

Now I had already thought of that, can it be? have you Googled it?

Felicita Cabrita? the journalist that obtained all those witness names, addresses, telephone numbers, mobile numbers and excerpts from witness statements?

Let's see what Google brings up!

Yet another road leading to Goncalo Amaral?

This lot is going to implode soon, it must be really close to it, no wonder the Pj are panicking!

Rosiepops said...

Calcite

It would be sweet justice!

helenm said...

I noted also that the Mail is reporting that the five will face a jury. I remember Alsabella saying that most cases are heard before 3 judges and not a jury. I certainly wouldn't volunteer to be a jury member, and possibly have the wrath of the PJ brought to bear.

Rosiepops said...

Calcite

yes this is one and the same Paulo Cristovao, the one that wrote the "Star of Joana" AND the "Star of Madeleine".

Apparently he is not bothered if the McCann's sue him for libel, well he should be because from what I can see, they have a cast iron case!

Perhaps he knows he is going to prison and is just saying in for a penny in for as many filthy tainted euros as he can get to line his own filthy nest before he is curtailed?
He could write from prison about his experiences at the hands (and feet) of all those prisoners that are there and should not be! Who knows, perhaps he has helped put a few in there.

I hear that Leonor Cipriano was in the prison that her lawyer was accused of trying to smuggle drugs into!

Did you know that Goncalo Amaral was back on the drug squad? and did you know that Goncalo Amaral is also due to be up in the dock accused of concealing the brutal torture of Leonor Cipriano?

yet another road leading to Goncalo Amaral.

Not looking very good for the PJ is it?

Rosiepops said...

Helen

I hope the jury are not made out of a panel of Arsabliar's and Clawdia's! My God the PJ can do no wrong!

Now this is beginning to stink to high heaven, looking at the record the PJ have got and what has been happening, why wouldn't a jury be scared of convicting these men?

Something is very wrong there Helen and the McCann's should in NO way return to Portugal (especially not if they were carrying a plastic bag!)

Knowing about this bag now, how strange do you find it that Martin Brunt said a "source" had told him about a bag that was supposed to be missing from the McCann's department?

Stupid "source" couldn't even get the colour of the bag right, although this didn't stop the conspiracy theories getting bags that the McCann's were carrying and changing the colour did it?

calcite51 said...

Never mind, Rosie. I'm sure if the PJ's do end up in jail, they will have the likes of Claws and Alsabella going to visit them on a regular basis. Maybe Alsabella could open up another blog explaining her reasons why the PJ's were UNFAIRLY (in her opinion, of course)packed off to jail.

Rosiepops said...

Wasn't a PJ Detective recently convicyed of beating a mototist up in Portugal?

Also wasn't another PJ detective found guilty of taking money for leaking information in Portugal? I think his name began with an E!

Rosiepops said...

Calcite

LOL I would pay money to join that blog and have my say!

But it would be constantly soaking wet from all the tears that Arse and Claw would be crying.

Oh did you know that our clever Sass has categorically PROVED that Arsebliar was posting on our site making venomous and nasty posts under ANONYMOUS and signing off as Marla?

yep sure did, so where does that leave the "honest" Arse? Oh and Notdoc who bent over backwards to lie through his back teeth for his little bit of cyber skirt?

Or maybe not that cyber?

B..E..J..A

silly stupid idiots, they think everyone is as stupid as they are. Some do not think that arse could be Gonc, I have my reservations, but they are certainly both arrogant enough to think they could get away with it.

Strange how Arse suddenly disappeared around the time that Tubby was told he was going to face charges!

helenm said...

Rosie, do you have my e-mail? If you do can you contact me?

calcite51 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
calcite51 said...

Rosie - I noticed that too - Asabella disappeared around the time her pal Goncalo Amaral was told he was being charged.

And I also noticed her pal, Claws said Alsabella and her blog would be returning within a couple of days of Alsabella disappearing from the blog scene. Hasn't happened yet, Claws (wave to Claws everyone).

I suspect Alsabella is Ana on the other blog - their writing styles are very similar so her being Marla does not surprise me.

calcite51 said...

Sorry made a mistake so I deleted one post, correct it and reposted it.

helenm said...

Rosie, doesn't matter, going out for dinner now. Catch you all later.

Rosiepops said...

Amaral's lawyer's full name is Dr António Cabrita.

J J said...

Rosiepops
I have read a few times where you mention an international inquirey into PJ.
Is this just something that you think would be a good idea or is there actually anything in the pipeline?
I think it's a bit unlikely.
Whenever the UK police foul up, it is another UK force that investigates them. I thought it would be the same everywhere.
I just can't see any foreign police force wanting to get involved in the Portuguese system as they would have no idea of the laws in Portugal.
I probably haven't read as much background information as you, is there something I've missed?

supertroll said...

Evening everyone,
Hope you are enjoying the weekend.

I don't usually comment on the case but I must say that your latest post from the Mail is a fantastic article. It confirms many of my suspicions about how the case has been handled.

Hopefully the Portuguese government will react and put wrongs right, and concentrate on finding Madeleine who IS STILL MISSING!

I have been having quite a laugh reading the reactions to the article in the vile blog. I am sure that if I could see Clawd and Ana right now their faces would be distinctly GREEN.

Its good to see them locked up in that stupid blog talking to themselves. Well done Viv for making your blog scum only.

Now they are going on about libel suits against the Mail. hahaha.

Since they don't seem to have much of a life...will they start the legal action themselves I wonder...

They seem to live in a world where freedom of expression does not exist and the authorities are not accountable for anything.
A bit right wing methinks.

Regards
ST

Rosiepops said...

helen no I don't sass did give it to me, but I accidentally deleted it.

Email me on

atticusfinch80@hotmail.co.uk

and then I can reply to you through my correct email addy.

Have a nice time out to dinner hope to see you later, you can tell us what you had. (for dinner)

Rosiepops said...

JJ

no it is not something that I have thought up, you should read today's article.

the reason why this would have to be an international inquiry is because of the number of errors leaks, lies, smears and innuendos and if you suspect corruption how can you have those suspected of corruption investigating themselves?

Please do not forget that there is two countries and Europe involved here.

If the British police had stuffed up like this they would have been suspended and been the subject of an independent inquiry long ago, the British would no way have tolerated this total shambolic farce!

calcite51 said...

Helen - have a good dinner and keep away from the vino.

Rosie, I'm leaving too - have to go to work again - I have tons of work to do.

Everyone have a good day, keep safe and I'll read tonight.

calcite51 said...

Well, Claws, here's a little message for you: "He/she who laughs first, laughs last". I suspect soon you'll be crying (and they won't be tears of joy)!

Rosiepops said...

Hi Supertroll

Do you know that I haven't even thought of having a look over there, maybe I will later!

Amazing how they can all scream libel when it is the PJ concerned, it is OK when it is the McCann's that are being libelled right, left and centre and usually by Vile and the vilettes too!

you cannot make it up can you?

Sounds as if their reaction to this article is as expected, I bet they have really loved this Sunday - NOT lol.

Have they forgotten that Madeleine is still missing because of the alleged way this case has been investigated? Or doesn't that resonate with them?

I would like to know how they think the Mail article is libellous, from what I have read they have only printed the truth, what is a matter of public record, so no libel suit there for the poor little PJ - shame!

Instead of screaming libel, those idiots would do well to actually read the article properly and try and understand the gravity of what is be told.
No modern civilised country should stand accused of such a dreadful justice system in 2008 and a Member State of the EU too?

In my opinion Portugal should be thrown out, evicted from the EU until they have righted the obvious wrongs in their legal system and their archaic laws!

Thanks for tellng us this ST, it has made my day!

J J said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rosiepops said...

hi Tinks

Just off for my dinner back soon!

supertroll said...

Rosie,

It is not about the children for them. It never was. Entertaiment and a misplaced sense of pride for their country is closer to the truth..

If they had been concerned about finding Madeleine and justice for all the other little children that they freely mention in that vile blog, they would have probably joined in the asking of questions.

Instead all they do is defend any wrongs that may have been commited by the authorities. They deny the undeniable.

Who are the ones facing charges in this whole sorry saga? Not the McCanns.

Sorry Clawdia but I think its a bit rich from you to call us 'child neglecters' and 'child neglecter defenders'.

When I see some of the like Marga putting pictures of murdered children as an avatar it makes me sick to the stomach.

I just hope that soon they will all crawl back to whichever holes they came out of in the first place.

Regards
ST

calcite51 said...

It is indeed a sad day for Portugal.

Five of their PJ's are up on various charges in the Leonor Cipriano case and her lawyer has now been found with drugs while visiting his client at the prison.

Whether he was set up as some suggested or not, I will await the judges' verdicts for they are all innocent until proven guilty but if any of it is true, then my tears will be for the Portugal people who deserved a hell of a lot better than what they have received from this pathetic bunch (imo). Maybe it's time the Portugal government cleaned house and if they are unable to maybe the EU will be taking care of it.

Christabel said...

Evening all,

not staying long and thank you all for your emails regarding mom.

Sass said...

Hi there

How is everyone doing?

Just read Rosie's article. How worry is that if the PJ is one of the top 3 or whatever it was on the list of police forces (as has been claimed) when it uses those techniques to get people framed.

calcite51 said...

Hi, Sass, Tinkerbell - I'm off to work. Will read later.

Sass said...

Hi and bye Calcite

Have a lovely day working!!! What are you? A vicar?!!!

calcite51 said...

Nope, I work for an oil and gas company and we're very busy.

Sass said...

Calcite

That wasn't a serious question! :-)

Tulip said...

I have a revolutionary suggestion.

Since we are all agreed that the Other Site is populated by people who are beyond the pale, may I suggest that nobody here does them the favour of calling attention to anything they say there? Can they be converted? No. Do they twist everything we say? Yes. Are the fence-sitters worth stroking? No.

Most if not all of us here have done it, myself included, but it just inflames the blog wars which are utterly pointless.

I think this site is self-sufficient enough to manage without using the appalling material from that other one.

If we met the Vile people socially we'd soon ignore them. Why not the same here?

Let's concentrate our efforts on giving Kate and Gerry and their family positive support. The more I think of what they are going through and what little Madeleine has probably suffered, the more irrelevant the crazies seem. I've had a bellyful of them and have resolved never to go there again.

If this means we talk less, then we talk less.

Anyway that's what I'm going to do.

Rosiepops said...

JJ

Perhaps it is just wishful thinking by CM, or perhaps he has some knowledge and is starting the ball rolling to ask for an international inquiry. If the McCann's want an International inquiry into this farce of an investigation then they above all others are entitled to ask for one.

If that is what they want then I would support them 100% pf the way.

Something needs to be done about it and that's for sure, before other children are put at risk.

It comes to something when we have a case of abduction and the PJ refuse to believe it and then try and blame the parents and then we discover that this has happened at least twice before in other cases of missing children in Portugal strangely all in or around the Praia da Luz area!

Not to mention the Casa Pia case!

I don't know why the PJ and their adoring followers are so worried, after all if they are innocent and have done all things correctly and there are not a load of worms to come crawling out of the woodwork, then the PJ have nothing to worry about......have they?

Rosiepops said...

Bye calcite

See you later have a great day at work.

Rosiepops said...

Hi Christabel Hi sass.

How is things?

Rosiepops said...

Christabel

A corker of an article isn't it?

Just what the hell is going on in the corridores of power in Portugal?

Obvioulsy nothing is what it seems. I would like to know what the EU is going to do about it?

Sass said...

Tulip

Well said. I haven't even looked at that filthy blog for a few days now, because it makes me sick that people can actually think like that.

There are more than enough good posters who come here to keep a debate going. If there is nothing to debate, then we can chat. As Diane once said when I apologised for going well off topic "Who cares, it's not a classroom"!

Gina said...

Tulip I take it from your post "should we stroke fence sitters, No" that people like myself and Swedish Mum are no longer welcomed to post here. Fine, if that's what you want.
I thought last week you wanted other points of view.

Sass said...

Hiya Rosie

Great ta. Spent the afternoon and part of the evening on the Slovene border.

That's one "great" advert for the PJ today! One of the top 3 police forces? Wonder who put that list together!

Sass said...

Gina

Tulip was talking about the other blog not this one.

Gina said...

Sass, I get so confused sometimes what people mean, it is not that important really, I just like to be sure where I stand. I think this case has gone on so long now we are all getting a bit touchy

Rosiepops said...

Calcite re your post 19.57

How do we know the Portuguese government is not behind a lot of this?

The Portuguese tourist industry is worth an estimated £2.8 billion, I don't suppose they would be happy to see it affected too much and apparently it is Brits that make up the vast majority of their tourist industry.

Also in today's article it quotes that tourist numbers are down on last year, but the person in charge has said he thinks this is down to falling Pound against the euro. Well I have news for him, he can say that and it may be correct in a percentage of it, but I think overwhelmingly Madeleine McCann investigation has a lot more to do with it than economics of it, of course he is not going to admit this, no one would, but this is what is happening in my opinion and we have been warning about this for some time, but it fell on deaf ears.

I know people that always go out to the Algarve together each year with their children, this year they have chosen Croatia. They did this because they were extremely worried about their children in Portugal, how often is this being played out I wonder?

I know that I would not take my children there and I would try and persuade my children not to take my grandchildren there either.

Every little noise I would be up out of bed, I would be terrified to have a window open, I would not be able to take my eyes of the children for a second, what kind of holiday would that be?
The whole holiday would be blighted and tainted and every second person I would be worried would be an abductor ready to pounce as soon as they got an opportunity.

Like you I think the PJ has an awful lot to answer to! Perhaps the Portuguese people will be more inclined not to believe everything they are told about the PJ when as a direct result of the PJ's incompetence their pockets will be hit - hard!

Tinkerbell43 said...

Evening All,

The more I read that front page article the more I wonder just what is going on deep down in Portugal. It is clear we are only scratching the surface which has been thrown into the spotlight as a result of a little girl abducted from her bed.

Unfortunately the PJ are never going to resume their search for Madeleine, this case now needs to be handed over to the British Police with immediate effect!

Anyone that believes the PJ are still going to resolve this case are labouring under an illusion.

Rosiepops said...

Sass

One of the top 3 police forces? I would hate to see the ones below it!

Strange I have never thought of police forces and their rating in the world, I mean how would you compile a list and what would be the criteria for marking them on?

Who marked them and on what? How many? Who crunched the numbers etc etc etc?

Or is this possible something dreamed up by some right wing Portuguese person with an agenda?

Did you have a good time? Sounds good. How dare you have a life!

Sass said...

Hiya Tinks

How ya doing?

Sass said...

Rosie

Am slapping my wrists as I write!
It was unforgiveable of me to leave the blog!!!!

Although there was this proud boast of the PJ's standing in the international list of Gawd knows what, noone seems to have found out who compiled it!!!

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hi Sass,

OK thanks, you sound like you've had a lovely day - good for you.

Tulip said...

Gina, I know you don't know where you stand.

But don't worry. It's only a blog!

Rosiepops said...

Tinks

I could not agree with you more, the PJ are never going to solve this case or resolve it, not while they have a hole in their backsides!

They are not interested in resolving it, they appear only interested in blaming the parents and of they cannot get them on one thing they will try and get them on another.

I do not see the PJ being granted permission to press charges on Kate for endangerment, why her? why not Gerry? Why not all the other friends that also left their children?

Why not all those that left their children that week in the Ocean complex?

Why not prosecute Mark Warner for encouraging endangerment of children? because they offered this service, a service that actually offered less than the McCann's did?

Truth is the PJ have not got a hope in hell of bringing this charge, this is just sour grapes because the know they cannot get the McCann's on anything else.

This is all about saving face for the PJ and them diverting attention away from the PJ inadequacy's.
The PJ know their game is up, they are deep in their own doo doo and haven't got a clue how to get out of it.

The more I read this article the more I seem to discover about Portugal and none of it is very good!

Sass said...

It was great Tinks! Lunch, walk and two coffee stops. Lovely sunny weather, can only recommend it!

Hope you had a good 'un, too!

Rosiepops said...

Sass,

Probably compliled by Arsa and Claw!

Rosiepops said...

Gina

What? Where did that come from? Tulip didn't mean that at all, she was talking about the other place, which she doesn't want to talk about and now we are lol.

Tulip see what you started?

Gina said...

Its ok Rosie sass explained and I am only firing on one cylinder at the moment, think I am going down with something. Off to bed now nite all

Tinkerbell43 said...

Well I've read a lot of articles since this case started but I've never seen one so full of personal insults and attacks like that.

Well done Mr. Reis, I take it you wanted to get in first!!!!

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hi Tulip,

I agree with your suggestion 21:03.

As I said yesterday, I never come away from there without shaking my head in pure disbelief at the nastiness on display. Its not a healthy place and I'd rather leave them to wallow in their own poison.

So I'm with you.

Rosiepops said...

Gina

I did delete it because before i got passed the 2nd line I knew it would be written by Paulo Reis.

It seems it is OK for Paulo Reis to have been dishing the dirt on this couple for months and pandering to sick minded individuals that flock to his blob, and then onto Viles and the Vilettes and 3 Arguidos blogs, but it is not OK for people to hit back, in fact when they do it produces ill written clap trap from Paulo Reis.

Well not on this blog he doesn't, his rubbish can stay his side of blog.

What Paulo Reis is, is jealous, he could not dream of penning a well written, well researched article like that which contained a scoop of speaking to Michael Cook about his experiences at the hands (and the feet) of the PJ.

What has happened to Madeleine McCann?

Someone in PDL knows, some people somewhere know.

Michael Cook
Leonor Cipriano
Madeleine McCann

All dis appeared from in or around Praia da Luz in Portugal.

Do you know what the statistics are of these not being connected?

............Miniscule..........

Rosiepops said...

Good night Gina, hope you get better soon, I had a bug this last two weeks too, it takes ages to go, horrible.

Rosiepops said...

I haven't been on Vile and the Vilettes for days either, I was feeling sick enough, I didn't want to make myself worse!

Tulip said...

Sass, you live in a lovely part of the world.

I know the Austrian Tyrol quite well but not so far east. Slovenia is also gorgeous, I have heard, and as yet fairly undiscovered.

Wish I'd been able to spend my Sunday there! Don't blame you for absconding.

Gina said...

Rosie, I expected you to delete it, I just used it as an example of what is likely to go on over the next week or so. I was just wondering if the Portuguese papers are going to take the same sort of line. I sincerely hope not otherwise this, if not already the case, will get totally out of control.

I am going to ignore both UK and Portugese paper reports unless they report facts on THIS case and what is actually happening. I know Casa Pia is a serious matter, but we do not know yet what Jersey is going to throw at us do we.

I just want to know the truth of what happened to Madeleine and I want whoever had a part in it to be severely punished.

Sass said...

Tulip

Slovenia really is lovely. Michael Palin started his "New Europe" travels there.

I used to commute there to work - did it for 6 years working in Maribor - it's really not far at all. The only daft thing is that the money was rubbish - everyone commuted in the other direction, because Austrian wages while living in Slovenia were good. It was brilliant experience and looks good on the CV though.

Things have improved there a lot now, too. It used to be a nightmare with things like getting a repair man out there. It took 6 months to get someone out to repair the photocopier (at a university, where copies are necessary!). Finally someone would come (6 months wasn't the exception, but the rule) and 2 days later the thing would be broken again. It certainly taught you a lot though - I can mend a (basic) copier now!

Tinkerbell43 said...

Tulip,

We do have less posters than the other blog, it was no different in the old DE days, but what we lack in numbers we make up in quality. All of our posters imo are genuine and sincere who have given us a lot of support.

Its not always been easy and we've had to ride out one or two storms but we're still here and we're as committed as ever.

Thanks for your continued support and everyone elses too.

Tulip said...

Thre are many lovely places that are better visited as a tourist than lived in!

Sass said...

Tulip

That's true! I wouldn't want to have missed the experience though.

helenm said...

Thankyou Tinks.

Had dinner, no vinho though, acting as unpaid chauffeur (?spelling) as always. Besides have learnt my lesson regarding too much before Easter!!! I am sitting here wih a small glass of red now though!

Tinkerbell43 said...

Calling it day guys, have a raging headache. See you all tomorrow, take care xx

Chris, if you are looking in, thinking of you and hope all is well.xxx

Sass said...

Hiya Our 'Ell

I'm just off, so no time for a chat, but will catch up tomorrow if you're around!

Rosiepops said...

I accept that some people may not want to post on this blog or any blog, what I do not accept is why they have to got to another blog to say so?

Why not just stop posting? End of?

It is true this blog is down three posters, so what? Since when was it a competition?

This is about a missing child, not some sick version of CSI.

While there are vile blogs in existence, so this one will be in existence, it is offered to balance out some of the complete nutcases around.

This is my opinion and my choice if others do not want to join in that is for them and they are liberty to please themselves, but they should remember, that while they have a choice so do I and the others that choose to post here.

By the way the quality of the posts here one is worth 500 of the bilge spewed out elsewhere.

We have good honest, decent and kind posters, who want to try and make a difference, if only in a small way.

I am proud of our posters on here and it has been a very nice and peaceful few days, very enjoyable to post.

The Daily Mail article by David rose is the best piece of journalism I have read for sometime and it is obviously excellent as Viv is so rattled by it, she felt the need to go and post on supertroll's about it.

Sass said...

I'm off, too.

See you tomorrow.

Nighty night.
x

Tulip said...

My last post was to Sass, sorry!

I think that most people who believe that the McCanns have been shabbily treated don't post on the net. I have never done so before.

The fact that we do now doesn't mean we are a minority opinion. Many older people who have time to post aren't comfortable with the net and most younger people are too busy imo.

People who hate the McCanns DO blog. They need an outlet for their poison. I suspect that many are veteran hate bloggers and that this won't be the last occasion they do it.

Rosiepops said...

Night sass and Tinks

take care sleep well. tinks I hope your headache shifts ASAP.

xxx

Tulip said...

And now I'll say good night to the congenial company on here.

Rosiepops said...

Hi Helen

Enjoy your dinner out?

Tulip

You have that right, I suspected that they were professional hate bloggers too, either that or just plain miserable of bastards that will moan about anything given the chance.

Rosiepops said...

Goodnight Tulip

One thing though does strike me as really funny if somewhat surreal, never did I think in all my life I would be talking to and a ddressing people as Tinks, Sass, tulip, Calcite Christabel, Melbel and joanypony, Lazarus, Sea Witch etc etc calling myself Rosiepops PMSL

sleep well take care
You have to laugh ya just gotta!

Tulip said...

Now I've really, really got to go but Rosie your remarks about the names, the blog etc are spot on. My grown-up and very work-pressured kids would think I'm mad and suggest knitting instead I think ...

Night again.

helenm said...

Goodnight Tinks, Sassy and Tulip, something I said?LOL

Hope you shift that headache Tinks.

Tulip, In research I was told that you will always get replies from those wishing to complain about something. People are always quick to give you the negative, never the positive. How sad but true as we have witnessed.

Rosiepops said...

Gina

I believe that you do and so do I and so does everyone else on this blog.

What really terrifies me is that some low life abductors are getting clean away with this, it sickens me and scares the life out of me. I could not bear to see other children or other families forced to endure this, it is just not right. I would go so far as to say this behaviour by these abductors is anti-human.

They MUST be caught.

helenm said...

You're right about names Rosie, glad I'm the only sane one amongst you!!!!

Dont Let Them Hurt Our Children said...

Hello Everyone !
Just passing through ...

Rosiepops said...

Hi there DLTHOC

Great to see you. I was wondering if you would like us to link with your site as you have ours up on yours, thanks so much for that.

What do you think of this Daily Mail story? We think it is an absolutely shocker and a real eye opener.

dianeh said...

Hi Tink

Just begging to disagree about your comment that we have less posters than the other blog. Not true in my opinion. After all, a number on the other blog are the same person, so it is hard to know how many they have. In my last visits to the other side, I noticed that there werent many posters at all (this was before it went private) but they all post a large number of posts. Got nothing better to do I suspect.

Rosiepops said...

HelenM or MelenH?

Sane you? you must be having a laugh!

Rosiepops said...

hi Diane

how are you?

Rosiepops said...

Diane

You wouldn't mind if occasionally they were cohesive and made sense, but they do not - ever!
Just the same vile spitting venom, day in day out.

You are right, we have a genuine number of posters, where they have all different persona's and sit around all day writing to themselves.

"Strange But True!"

dianeh said...

Helen

I have also done a customer service course, called Complaint is A Gift. It said the same thing. People do not provide positive feedback in response to a service, situation, etc, only negative feedback. It is the same as with the anti's. And it was in reponse to them, that we all joined the blogging scene. I for one was outraged by the blatant lies being told about the McCanns, lies that were being portrayed as true. I couldnt just sit back and say nothing. And notice that this was a negative response as well. I didnt respond in support of the McCanns until they were unfairly attacked.

dianeh said...

Rosie

Im fine thanks, and I hope everything is well with you. Litle girl is sick again and slept for half the night with me last night and night before. So am a bit tired today.

I liked the article. It says all that we have been saying but left out the facts about Critovao, the important bit that he heads the Organisation for Missing Children, that he was appointed to after being made a suspect (charged I think) in the other case. But glad to hear that this article came straight out and said he used PJ material. Absolute disgrace.

Dont Let Them Hurt Our Children said...

Hiya Rosepops .. I love that !
That's a great idea... Thanks !
About the latest post... Disturbing
Personally I think if this is All They have Got after Nearly 12 Months ... They Should Allow Someone Else in there to Find Madeleine as They Obviously Have More to Hide.

Rosiepops said...

Hi Diane

So sorry to hear about your little girl, I hope she gets better really soon. When they are well and are getting up to all sorts of mischief you long for a little peace and quiet, however, when they are sick and quiet you long for the times they are up and about getting into everything again.
Give her a hug from all of us xxx

dianeh said...

DLHOC

I went for a look at your blog a couple of weeks ago.

Well done.

Dont Let Them Hurt Our Children said...

Hey Thanks
Your Not doing Such a bad Job Yourselves !!

Rosiepops said...

Hi DLTHOC

it's done and they work!

Dont Let Them Hurt Our Children said...

Thats Great Thanks !

Rosiepops said...

I was absolutely astonished to read about Michael Cook. He got put into prison on the say so of someone that said they saw him and wanted to remain anonymous!
No scientific fact, no witness verification.

They said they had tyre marks, but apparently the tyre marks the PJ could not have come from Cooks vehicle!

Also the DNA?! What is going on there? Don't the PJ know they have to store evidence like this? Didn't their university training teach them that they do NOT destroy vital evidence?

Apparently they said this poor little child had blood under her fingernails and that it came from Cook, bit when his lawyers ask for it to be DNA tested they said that they had it destroyed!

This is so ridiculous you cannot make this up!

Rosiepops said...

I agree, the PJ are apparently clueless and they should allow someone with the expertise to have the case notes and allow them to get on with finding Madeleine, after all it is patently obvious that the PJ are not looking for her and haven't been for a very long time!

Dont Let Them Hurt Our Children said...

It Makes You wonder also, How many Other Children & Adults They are Not Looking For...
Joana Cipriano to Mention Just one.
I Have Heard there is to be a Conference Regarding her & Madeleine 24 April.

Rosiepops said...

Diane said:

"I for one was outraged by the blatant lies being told about the McCanns, lies that were being portrayed as true. I couldn't just sit back and say nothing. And notice that this was a negative response as well. I didn't respond in support of the McCanns until they were unfairly attacked."

This was exactly why I first joined the DX and I did not arrive there until September and this was because I had heard they were being castigated, so I joined to try and defend them in some small way.
It is still going on and while it is I will defend them.

I cannot do anything to personally find Madeleine, but I can help her parents see that there are still good kind decent people out here supporting them and praying that Madeleine is found and returned home to her loving parents.

I can also in my own small way apply pressure for the authorities to act. Which I have done and have had a lot of very good, positive and supportive emails back from people in authority who are absolutely shocked, stunned and appalled at how this poor couple are being treated.

We can also keep the the pressure up to get the British police to take over this case, I have every faith if they are allowed the case notes, then they may have a chance of finding Madeleine and while there is that chance, then I will be around to help in any way that I can. It has nothing to do with blog wars, or what other people want to do or do not want to do, it is has everything to do with what I want to do and how I can give help if I possibly can.

Rosiepops said...

DLTHOC

Have you? Where is that being held and who by? I would be very interested in that.

dianeh said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dont Let Them Hurt Our Children said...

As You know I make Video's on Youtube, a friend of mine made one about the Divers who were searching the lake. One of the Divers Contacted her and asked for her to send him some Pictures from her video. As His team had not seen these Pictures before. The pictures they were talking about were from the playground, Robert Murat with the PJ and the man in the playground, and one from Robert Murats Wifes Home in the uk. my friend sent them to him and he passed them on to Metedo 3 also. He then sent her some pictures from the search in the river items found - and asked her to make a video including Madeleine and Joana for this conference.

Rosiepops said...

Apparently an expert in child abduction has said to have three cases within a small radius such as this, that there is every chance they are connected, even the one that happened 14 years ago!

Stupidly I read it and cannot find the link anywhere, I cannot remember if I saved it, which is annoying as I would normally save such a link.

Even the Mari Luz Cortez case could be connected and non one seems to be fully investigating this, the boundaries are way too close apparently!

So this makes 4 that we know of!

My fear is that some of the street children who are not being missed are also going missing and *not* being recorded, this is a very very bad situation in Portugal, you would not catch me going on holiday there with my grandchildren!

Paulo Cristaovo heads a unit where he has control over who enters the list of missing children and apparently Madeleine is not on there because Cristaovo says her disappearance in *NOT* unexplained?! How dare he make this assumption? Who told him that? Which buddy in the PJ?

More importantly how many other children who have gone missing and fallen through the net and have *NOT* ended up as *unexplained* missing children?

dianeh said...

Rosie

I just deleted this, have modified it and reposted.

I dont kid myself that what we do on here helps the McCanns. But what is the alternative. Let those ridiculous anti's sway more and more gullible people.

I find this blog to be a voice of reason. I understand why the 'fence sitters' get upset when they posts here but they have the wrong idea as to what is going on. If they are going to post in support of the PJ, then they are going to get bombarded with answers. The problem is they are trying to defend the indefensible. The more that comes out, the more it is evident.

The longer this case goes on, the more it appears the McCanns are completely innocent. For me, this is obvious but then I alwasy beleived them to be innocent. But I cannot for the life of me understand how apparently normal people cannot see the truth of this. I think the conspiracy theorists have definitely hurt the collective consciousness of society. People now see conspiracies at every turn.

But on the Madeleine case, what I cant quite comprehend is how the same people can have multiple theories (which all contradict each other) and just trot out the one that most suits the current conversation thread.

I think that most that post on here, are more consistent and have only one theory (not saying all agree but each person has their own theory,not multiples).

Rosiepops said...

DLTHOC

Will you tell us more when it takes place? Is there any chance that we may be able to see the videos at asome point?

Dont Let Them Hurt Our Children said...

I have all the details including the Divers email address, You can have all I have got but Privately of Course.

dianeh said...

Rosie

As for Christavao, he will get what is coming to him. Of that I have no doubt.

One question though. I am surprised we do not hear from the various social justice organisations in Portugal. I feel that they must be there and canvassing behind the scenes to rid their justice systems of problems that they have. Why have we not heard their comments on the Cipriano case. We heard them on the miscarriages of justice in Britain. Where are they?

Dont Let Them Hurt Our Children said...

I forgot to Mention the Video is on My Blog.

Rosiepops said...

Diane

I think you are right, we do have only one theory on here and that is that Madeleine was abducted, for us this is the only plausible explanation.

At first I did not really know what to believe, I think I was suspicious because of other cases where I have seen supposedly grief stricken people breaking down for the camera, only to discover at a later date they did it. I wonder too sometimes if the effect of their lies are what we are witnessing in some of the more reasonable antis?

But as time went on I became more and more convinced of their innocence, I do totally believe they are innocent.

As for the blogs, well you never know who is reading these blogs and I often wonder if they do read them sometimes, if they do, I just want them to know that there are decent right minded people all over the world that believe in them, it is important to me that they know this. they do know that there are hate blogs operating, so it will not do them any harm to know that there are also support blogs operating for them!

As I said you never *ever* know who is watching and reading ;0)

Rosiepops said...

DLTHOC

here is my throw away email addy

atticusfinch80@hotmail.co.uk

I would be very interested in the details, thank you so much.

I will also take a look at the video as I haven't seen it yet.

Thank you x

Rosiepops said...

Diane

I believe there are a group of Portuguese lawyers fighting for a change in Portugal's constitution, because this is what is needed!

Funny with all the recent EU and all about Britain getting uppity about our constitution in relation to the EU and we had to sign.

What about Portugal? What changes to their constitution were agreed before they signed?

Rosiepops said...

Oh well must go to bed now can hardly keep my eyes open and I have an early start in the morning.

Good night Diane and DLTHOC

speak again soon sleep well take care.

Nice to speak to you again DLTHOC, remember you are always welcome on our site.
xxx

xxx God Bless Madeleine xxx

Dont Let Them Hurt Our Children said...

Thank you,
I have sent you the details we Discussed.

dianeh said...

Good night Rosie, sleep well.

Dont Let Them Hurt Our Children said...

I will say Goodnight also Diane
Nice Talking to you Both again, Take care Janet x

johnfrank said...

Just of a matter of intrest WHY?WOULD DELETE MY POST.
JOHN

Rosiepops said...

Hi John

No one has deleted your post, you are posting on a different blog to where you made your other post.

But I am switching the blog over to invited members only soon, you are welcome to post when the blog is running again tomorrow.

Good night.

Minute For Madeleine McCann

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