Thursday, 10 April 2008

Lies, beatings, secret trials: the dark side of police handling Madeleine case

Thanks China for the link!


I feel responsible to keep speaking my mind about the McCann case since I have posted so many articles on it and have made numerous comments about it, all in speculation based of the data that was available.

I have to admit, I was giving the Portuguese Police the benefit of the doubt in believing their case against the McCanns could have merit, but after reading this article, I am forced to reconsider. I know police corruption is rampant around the world, but I needed more evidence about the Policia Judiciaria to change my mind or make me at least consider the possibility that the McCanns have been deliberately framed. Nobody was giving it to me until I spotted this article.

Like everybody else, all I had to go on was witness reports, the McCann’s testimony, the investigation leaks, on British police dog findings and the DNA forensic returns from British labs. Putting these together, it was not hard to believe the theory that the McCanns accidentally killed their child and tried to cover it up. I never came out and claimed to know this for a fact, but according to all these reports, it seemed to be the most likely scenario. It certainly seemed more likely than the suggestion that the PJ would deliberately frame the McCanns, but after reading this well-researched article by David Rose, I am pursuaded to believe it very possible that the McCanns are indeed being framed.

This is a very bizarre case by any standards and just keeps getting weirder all the time. The field is wide open as far as I am concerned. Anything could be true or any combination of strange and criminal coincidences could have come together in Maddy’s disappearance. What I mean to say is that I just do not know what happened, who is guilty or innocent and neither does anyone else, except for the McCanns themselves, and maybe the police.

Be that as it may, I have to say a picture is worth a thousand words. Just have a look at the photo of Chief Inspector Goncalo Amaral and tell me if he looks like an honest cop to you. There is something about him that makes me feel he is the opposite of that. Then look at the second photo of Leonor Cipriano. Does it look like she fell down a flight of stairs to you? Or does it look like she was punched in the face? To me, it looks like she was beat up. It is possible to sustain injuries like that from a fall or from a car accident, but it seems to me that you don’t get two neat black eyes with abrasions on the cheekbones like that unless it is from getting punched with a fist. If she was indeed tortured into confessing to murder, then we do have a very different picture of the Policia Judiciaria and their case against the McCanns don’t we?

Lastly, I have to say, this is more about what happened to Maddy than anything else, and it should remain the central issue. When I look at her sweet face in the photos, I can’t help asking, “What happened to you little Maddy?”

I wish she could tell us.

Note: I never wanted to go there, but this is looking like it could have something to do with past elite pedophile activity in Portugal. If the police feel so pressured to frame people for child disappearances, there could be something much more sinister behind it. Is it due merely to pressure from media attention or from powerful politicians above? It seems to me that it would require more than public pressure to make them go to such great lengths to frame someone.

According to his friends, Chief Inspector Goncalo Amaral of the Portuguese Policia Judiciaria, co-leader of the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann from the Mark Warner Ocean Club in Praia da Luz, is a dedicated and capable detective, determined to do whatever it takes to find her – or those responsible for murdering her.

As a foreign reporter in Portugal, it is difficult to form a view. Thanks to the country’s stringent judicial secrecy laws, Amaral is officially forbidden from talking to the media.

Chief Inspector Goncalo Amaral, who is leading the hunt for Madeleine McCann, is to be questioned over the torture of Leonor Cipriano

I confronted the sweaty, corpulent figure in an ill-fitting jacket twice last Friday: the first time at 10am, as he sat slurping coffee and cakes at the Kalahary cafe in Portimao with his colleague, Chief Inspector Guillermino Encarnacao; the second just before 3pm, when the two men made their way from a restaurant to a waiting black Mercedes, in which they were driven 400 yards to meet officials at the courthouse.

The reaction was the same both times: “No speak! No speak!” was all Amaral would say, making a swatting motion as though batting away an insect. But Amaral’s official silence is not the only difference between him and his counterparts in Britain. In the UK, it is unlikely he would be leading the McCann inquiry at all. Madeleine’s parents Kate and Gerry may never be charged with anything, despite their present status as arguidos, or official suspects, and by the end of last week, apparently well-placed sources were admitting that any case against them is circumstantial and weak.

Amaral, however, is in a similar position. He, too, is an arguido, facing possible trial on a serious criminal charge arising from a murder case brought to court in 2004, the last occasion a little girl vanished in the Algarve.

The Mail on Sunday can today reveal new details of this case, the subject of a draconian judicial order that has stopped most sources who know about the case from talking to the Portuguese Press. According to the order, documents about the case have been restricted to a handful of officials, while the next stage of the process – a hearing at which Amaral and four fellow officers may be asked formal questions – will be conducted in secret. It is believed that this is set for next month.

Three of Amaral’s senior PJ colleagues have been made suspects for the torture of the missing girl’s mother, Leonor Cipriano, who has been convicted of killing her daughter Joana, aged eight, and jailed for 16 years. As for Amaral, the claim against him is “omisado de denuncia” – that he tried to hide the evidence of the alleged torture or, in other words, attempted a cover-up. He is said to deny it strenuously.

In internet blogs and newspaper columns, Amaral’s supporters have claimed that the Cipriano case is built on lies – a vicious smear against a decent detective trying to do his job. It has, they say, “no connection” to the Madeleine McCann inquiry. Experienced lawyers in Portimao, the town 12 miles from Praia da Luz where Amaral is PJ chief, disagree.

The case against the detectives began as a complaint lodged by Cipriano’s lawyer, they pointed out, but has now been adopted by the public prosecutor.

“In order to bring formal charges, the public prosecutor has to believe there is a strong case,” said Oliveira Trindad, who has practised law in the area for more than ten years. “That means that after assessing all the evidence, he thinks that if the case goes to trial, a conviction is more likely than not.”

That decision is likely to be made well before the McCann case is closed.There are, to be sure, many differences between Leonor Cipriano and Kate McCann.

But there are also similarities, starting with the fact that although the bodies of their daughters have not been found, Amaral and his PJ colleagues have long been convinced that both girls are dead.

No one would suggest that in the course of the marathon interrogations that preceded their departure from Portugal last weekend, Kate or Gerry McCann were the victims of physical violence. But at times it seemed they were also being subjected to torment, albeit of a different, psychological kind. It, too, say Portimao’s criminal defence lawyers, may have been inspired by PJ officers desperate to achieve the end they sought with Cipriano – a confession.

It isn’t hard to locate the source of some of the McCanns’ current difficulties: Hugo Beaty’s bar. There, amid the burnt orange concrete of the Estrela apartment complex, a five-minute walk from the Ocean Club, most of the seats along the shady terrace and more inside will be taken all day by reporters with laptops, authors of a daily verbal torrent that has come to seem unstoppable.

After Kate and Gerry’s abrupt return to Leicestershire last Sunday, almost nothing happened in the McCann case last week.The only verified fact is that after considering a ten-volume PJ dossier about Madeleine’s disappearance on May 3, Pedro Miguel dos Anjos Frias, a junior judge in Portimao, decided to grant certain requests made by the prosecutor, Joao Cunha de Magalhaes.

Every news outlet covering the story – a waterfront that now extends across the whole of Europe to the major American TV networks and even, unbelievably, a paper in war-torn Somalia – has stated that these requests were for warrants to seize items including Kate McCann’s private diary, Gerry’s computer and (though this seems slightly less certain) Madeleine’s beloved cuddle cat. There is, however, nothing approaching official confirmation of these claims. Like everything else about the case, the details of the prosecutor’s approach to the judge are covered, supposedly, by the judicial secrecy laws, under which the penalty – in theory – for making unauthorised disclosures is two years in prison. Thus it is that like almost everything else being broadcast and published beyond Portugal’s borders about the hunt for Madeleine, the claim that the police want to read Kate’s diary has reached its audience via Hugo Beaty’s bar. Every day there starts the same way shortly after it opens at 9am, with an informal briefing to the foreign Press by a locally resident British woman who normally makes a meagre living acting as an occasional interpreter – for the Policia Judiciaria.

Every morning, the woman – who asked me not to publish her name – goes through the Portuguese tabloids and translates their ever-more febrile articles. Every afternoon, the foreigners – almost none of whom can speak more than the most basic Portuguese, nor claim a single, genuine source inside the police investigation – recycle the tales for consumers abroad. By the end of last week, some of the assertions made by the Portuguese had become part of a settled consensus. For example, it was reported from Berlin to Baltimore that the police had already made a photocopy of Kate’s diary – which, if true, would mean they had broken the law – and merely wanted to obtain the judge’s approval to use it as evidence. The reason they are so keen on it, it was alleged, is that it suggests she found her children “hyperactive” and difficult to handle, while railing at her husband’s allegedly dilatory, hands-off approach. The claims about the diary’s contents were first published on Thursday by Jose Manuel Ribeiro, crime correspondent for the Lisbon daily Diario de Noticias.

By chance I ran into him that same afternoon, outside the apartment where Madeleine disappeared. I congratulated him on his scoop, but he shook his head, disconsolate. Already, he complained, it was turning to dust.Ribeiro said he had been given the story by an impeccable inside source, but already officials in Lisbon were denying it, and the source himself could no longer assure him it was true. “Why is bad information getting out to the public?” he asked. “Because we’re being given it.”Somehow, however, the denials that had made Ribeiro so angry did not get through to the foreigners. If the questionable leak had been planted for a purpose – to increase the pressure on the hapless McCanns – it may well have succeeded. And, in the foreign public’s mind, the germinating notion that Kate might have killed her daughter because she could not handle her had been nurtured by a further dollop of manure.

A similar, apparently sanctioned but inaccurate leak had already gone around the world to still more devastating effect.Early on Monday evening, TV channels began to report that British forensic scientists had made a “100 per cent” DNA match to Madeleine from “biological material” – said to be hair and “bodily fluids” – recovered from the Renault Scenic that the McCanns did not hire until 25 days after she vanished, suggesting that they had hidden her body on May 3 and moved it weeks after her death. With no time for reporters to make checks before their deadlines, the story spread like foot and mouth to almost every British front page the next morning. It was only in the ensuing days that it began, spectacularly, to unravel. The match was not 100 per cent after all, it transpired, but 80 per cent or less – a level that, according to Professor Alec Jeffries, DNA matching’s inventor, might mean that the material had not come from Madeleine at all, but another member of her family. Even if it had, other experts said, it would prove very little.

Among readers who followed the forensic details, the case against the McCanns had been seen to suffer damage.But others were left with a clear impression – that the PJ now believed they had real evidence that the McCanns must have been responsible for Madeleine’s (still unconfirmed) death.

As for those who still harboured doubts, more rococo “revelations” were being published widely by the end of the week, such as the claim that having bundled Madeleine’s body into the car, the McCanns drove it to the marina in nearby Lagos. There they are said to have hired a boat, swore its owner into their conspiracy, then sailed into the Atlantic, into which they tipped their child, weighted down with rocks. Could such stories really be part of a conscious PJ strategy?

Some lawyers around the Portimao courthouse believe that they could.“Portuguese journalists aren’t just making this stuff up,” said Oliveira Trindad.“They are getting it from the police, of course, and the justice officers, the people working for the prosecutors. It’s obvious that some information is coming from the PJ.”

Some of it, he added, appears to be accurate – so making it that much easier for the same sources to seed disinformation.Another Portimao lawyer, who asked not to be named, claimed the PJ was fighting a “propaganda war” with the McCanns.

“It is the fault of the British Press,” he said.“They were the ones who started saying, ‘You’re no good, you’re no good.’“If you say a lie like that many times, so many people believe it. You cannot blame the PJ for wanting to hit back.”

But there might be another reason.“Some people think journalists pay their PJ sources,” the second lawyer said, citing a case where an officer from Lisbon is facing criminal charges after being caught red-handed copying secret documents about a fraud case, allegedly for private profit. “But they also have an interest in the case and its coverage.”

With the forensic evidence apparently confused and contradictory, “it seems the main goal of the PJ now is to get a confession. It’s like in the films, ‘Aha, we have a confession, let’s take them to court.’

“It’s normal to want a confession when they don’t have much else.”

Intense interrogation of the McCanns has so far failed. But perhaps, the lawyer implied, using the media might be another way of applying the third degree.

“I want to believe that the Portuguese police do everything the right way,” said Joao Grade, the lawyer for Leonor Cipriano.“But sometimes, if they really think someone is guilty, as they did with Leonor, they may find other ways to get what they want. It’s only human.“When they believe someone has killed a child, it’s normal that they will apply pressure.“In the McCann case, it seems that the police have what they consider half-proofs.“But it’s not airtight, it doesn’t interlock, so maybe they need more.”

As he spoke, I found myself recalling British miscarriages of justice: cases such as the Birmingham Six, wrongly convicted of IRA pub bombings that killed 21, where the police, under tremendous pressure to “get a result”, built dishonest but convincing prosecutions based around confessions. Could the same thing be happening to the McCanns? The pressure on the police is certainly intense. The loss of a child evokes horror everywhere.

On the Algarve, however, the need to solve the case – and, perhaps, not to leave the fear that Madeleine was killed or abducted by an unknown paedophile – has other roots as well.

“The Algarve is a family destination, and situations like this are not agreeable to anyone,” said Elderico Viegas, the regional tourism authority president. "Our reputation for safety is one of our most important values – especially with the British, who make up our biggest market.” And Algarve tourism, worth about £2.8billion a year and growing rapidly, is, Viegas said, the single biggest component of the entire Portuguese economy. The police had, he added, mishandled the media, giving rise to damaging speculation. “But for me, the details are not important. What’s important is the economy. I was born and brought up here and I can’t remember the last time a tourist was murdered.” So far, he added, visitor numbers this year are up.

Central to many British miscarriages of justice was a shared, deeply ingrained belief among police and prosecutors that their suspects “had” to be guilty.With the Birmingham Six, it was founded on botched forensic tests that “told” investigators that the men had been handling the explosive nitroglycerine – false positives that arose because they had been playing with cards coated in the harmless chemical nitrocellulose.

In Praia da Luz, there are signs of a similar mindset at work, derived from equally tendentious “evidence”. For example, said a local source who knows several of the PJ inquiry team, from an early stage detectives laid great weight on Kate McCann’s apparent composure when she appeared in public.

One of the strangest aspects of Portuguese coverage of the case has been frequent recourse to media psychologists, who have made all manner of deductions about her personality and state of mind by “analysing” her TV image, claiming that the absence of tears and presence of carefully applied make-up indicates a “cold”, “manipulative” or even “psychopathic” personality. In other words, someone capable of reacting instantly to the death of her daughter, whether deliberate or accidental, by deciding that she had to hide the body and conceal what had happened, and able to persuade her husband and perhaps other “accomplices” to go along with her plot.

Disturbingly, said the local source, such analysis has not been confined to the media.

“Pretty early on, they had forensic psychologists in, studying hours of video footage, drawing extremely unfavourable conclusions about Kate’s personality,” she said. “You could say she’s been damned by her stiff upper lip.”

There have been reported claims that Kate McCann had “confessed” to killing Madeleine to a local Catholic priest.But the Rev Hubbard Haynes, the Anglican vicar who lives in Praia da Luz and got closer to the McCanns than anyone during their months in Portugal, refuted them with controlled fury.

A young, passionate Canadian, who took up his post a week after Madeleine’s disappearance, he said: “When I mention Maddie, Gerry and Kate in my own prayers, I find myself weeping. I have gone out into the fields and looked in the hedgerows, begging God for some sign that will help us find her, and I have wept because He has not given it to us yet. All I can say is that my tears are as nothing to the tears I have seen shed by Kate and Gerry. They may not have cried for the cameras, but to say they do not weep in private is facile and offensive. The man and woman I have known for the past four months are a couple whose lives have become unbearably empty because their little girl was missing. I do not recognise those people in recent media reports, and I find the idea that they had anything to do with her disappearance just inconceivable. There is great evil in this world, and someone has taken this child.”

Other aspects of the emerging mindset against the McCanns seemed equally questionable. Several Portuguese lawyers and journalists, along with a uniformed police officer from the National Republican Guard I spoke to outside the Ocean Club apartment, told me solemnly not only that the McCanns and their friends were “swingers” who had taken their holiday together to indulge in group sex (an assertion made repeatedly by the Portuguese Press), but that “everyone knows” that its tolerance of orgies is the Mark Warner Ocean Club resort’s main selling point.

One afternoon I decided to test this proposition, approaching two holiday reps there, dressed in their red Mark Warner sweatshirts. “Er, is this a good place for swingers, then?” I asked.They looked at me in total bafflement. “Swingers?” one replied.“Look around you, sir. Most of our guests are retired, or families with children.”

Another assertion published several times last week is that, on the night that Madeleine disappeared, the McCanns phoned Sky TV before contacting the police – another claim echoed by the uniformed cop. Outside the Portimao courthouse, I asked Sky’s reporter Ashish Joshi if he thought this might be true.He rolled his eyes wearily. “It’s just nonsense,” he said. “The first anyone at Sky knew about Maddy was when the story appeared on the Press Association wire. “I was asked about this just yesterday by a Portuguese reporter. I told him it was crap. And this morning, his paper printed it.”

I passed this on to the Republican Guard officer, but he was unmoved. His unit, he said, had handled the case in its early stages, and from the start he and his colleagues had been convinced there was something fishy about the McCanns.

“My partner was there on the night of May 3,” he said, “and I can tell you, that apartment was full of people, Kate was screaming – and yet her twins didn’t wake up. How do you explain that? They must have been drugged. Nobody on the force believed their story about a kidnap for a moment. That little girl is dead, for sure. Soon you will see the truth.”

Why the need for such bizarre allegations? The answer, I believe, is that there is a massive hole at the heart of the emerging PJ theory. When Madeleine disappeared the McCanns did not have a car. The Ocean Club is in the middle of a busy resort, and the notion that somehow the McCanns found a way to conceal her without transport, and then went to dinner with their friends as if nothing were amiss is beyond credibility.

One Portuguese journalist suggested to me that they might have hidden her on a scrubby headland a few minutes’ walk away. But as I found when I attempted to go for a run there, at night it is inhabited by feral dogs, whose barking would have made the digging of some putative shallow grave impossible.

The PJ enjoys a high reputation in Portugal. “They are ranked among the top five police forces in the world,” attorney Trindad said, albeit admitting he did not know the source of this curious international ranking.Most PJ officers are graduates, and would-be entrants face severe competition, with a battery of psychometric, physical and academic tests before they can even be considered for the PJ training school. The force’s Press office likes to compare the PJ to the American FBI: “We are an elite,” spokeswoman Ana Mouro said.

But beneath the veneer, as the case of Leonor Cipriano suggests, the reality can look less impressive.

“She is nothing like Kate McCann,” her lawyer Joao Grade said.“She is very poor, with maybe only three years of schooling, and her children have several fathers. She did not get to meet the Pope and she did not have the support of Sky and the BBC. But I tell you this: if Kate had been treated like Leonor, she would have done what Leonor did – ended by saying, ‘OK, OK, I’m guilty, and this is how I did it.’”

The special judicial order – imposed on top of the usual Portuguese secrecy – means not only that Grade is prevented from disclosing virtually anything about the Cipriano case, but that pre-trial hearings of the charges against the detectives, due as soon as next month, will be held in camera.

The Mail on Sunday has established crucial alleged details from other legal sources in Portimao. After Joana disappeared in September 2004, Leonor was arrested by the PJ in Portimao on October 14 at 8am. Held there and in the city of Faro without access to a lawyer, she was interrogated without sleep for 22 hours. Then, after a two-hour respite, she was interrogated again until 7am on October 16. By this time, as photos published by the Portuguese media make clear, her face was a mass of bruises. According to Grade: “Not just her face but her whole body was black and blue.” The police said she “tried to commit suicide” by throwing herself down stairs. If the alleged torture was to force a confession, it succeeded – only for Leonor to withdraw it when she finally saw her lawyer the next day.

The supporters of the accused police have claimed that the officers must be innocent because Cipriano could not pick out her alleged attackers in an identity parade. However, according to the sources in Portimao, this is because they are not alleged to have beaten her themselves, but to have brought in paid thugs. In any event, she was convicted and sentenced to 21 years. Last June, this was reduced on appeal to 16 – though one of the five appeal court judges issued a dissenting opinion, stating that he was convinced she had been assaulted in custody and was innocent. If the criminal case against the PJ officers does lead to convictions, Grade said, she will appeal again. He has also lodged a case in the European Court of Human Rights.

Strangely enough, Chief Inspector Goncalo Amaral is not the only link between the Cipriano and McCann cases. Another of the senior officers who is now an arguido is the recently retired Chief Inspector Paulo Pereira Cristovao. He is one of the McCanns’ principal scourges – not as a detective, but in his new capacity as a columnist for Diario de Noticias, among the most active of Portuguese newspapers in its pursuit of stories about Madeleine derived from leaks.

“There is another link between the Cipriano and McCann cases,” a Portimao lawyer claimed. “You know, it’s like if Manchester United lose a big game: next week the pressure they have to win is very big. “The PJ are beginning to worry that now they might lose the Cipriano case. If that happens, they have to win with the McCanns.”

Of course, there is yet another connection.If Leonor Cipriano did not kill Joana, the chances of discovering the truth – or indeed her body – are now remote.

And as the McCanns have stated repeatedly, if they are innocent, the enormous effort being poured into trying to blame them is effort diverted from the search for a missing four-year-old girl, and the person or persons who abducted her. That is a thought so grim that it almost makes one wish that the mindset so evident around Praia da Luz had a real foundation. My fear is that it has as much solidity as the sandcastles on the beach.

• David Rose has been investigating miscarriages of justice for 25 years and has written several books on the subject.


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Rosiepops said...


Here is a link to the page which will explain it again for you:

How To Add A Live Link To Your Posts

When you land look for where it says:

This is an email link

and then follow the instructions, if you have any difficulties just ask, but do play around with it, you cannot breal anything and if you do it wrong it simply does not publish your post.

calcite51 said...


calcite51 said...

Good article, Sass. I was always leary of any process where finding a missing child rests solely on the police force.

I think getting flyers of the missing child out to the public is necessary (the sooner the better), immediately shutting down borders, posting amber alerts,etc. are all necessary tools when a child goes missing. Do they always work? No, they don't always work but these processes work often enough to make it beneficial.

And as Madeleine's case progress or didn't progress, I became more leary of every process being used by the PJ's. Never, ever have I heard where investigators are being investigated for misconduct and are still allowed to continue investigations. Just is NOT done.

chinadoll said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
chinadoll said...

Another link referred to in the article above:-

Portugal's elite linked to paedophile ring

chinadoll said...

For anyone who missed it, here is an excellent post from Melbel, made last night:-

Evening all
Just a flying visit, as I am turning up new trousers, for my holidays[makes me crabby,as I am shortsighted]I caught Seawitch, earlier, who I know is busy, but was lovely to see her, before I go after Sunday, for a month.
Thanks for the interesting material presented and was reading, with concern the material put up by China.
There is something rotten in the state of Portugal.Fact.
These latest leaks, purporting to show part of the oh so secret statements, are either a pack of lies, like we have come to expect, about anything emanating from that country, re this case;alternatively, this shows, imo,a PJ spinning desperately to smear this couple,before releasing them,from arguido status.It is damage limitation, but if a true leak, how spiteful,unprofessional and desperate, does it make the PJ look.
Oh, they didn't kill their child, your honour, but we will blacken them and accuse them, of child neglect.
It shows me, how insular this nation is, in spite of their seafaring past.
On a day,where the EEC, with some input from the McCs, among others, were debating an important child protection issue, if true, someone from the discredited Portugese Police Force,decided to play dirty tricks.
Will there be an enquiry into this leak?I doubt it, as there was no action taken about the others.
It is all fur coat and no knickers, isn't it?
It is all spin and presentation, BUT IT HAS BACKFIRED.
Kiss goodbye to your international standing, Portugal,what is left of it.
Kiss goodbye to your tourist industry.
My husband has been working with someone with a holiday place, to letin Praia da Luz.Well, I can tell you, that the bookings are well down. There might be a few cameramen and journalists, around the anniversary, but don't hold your breath.
The tactics of these almost third world bullyboys, are so transparent.WE are a sophisticated audience and we will be merciless.
They must not return to this basket case of a country, unless they see any evidence and unless the arguido status, is removed.
They have great lawyers to fight any extradition request and would need them.
In my view, though, the PJ will slink home, tails between legs and will have to prepare their nation, which appears to have a massive inferiority complex, if we believe Portugese posters and their talk of an unequal battle, between David and Goliath.
POliticial interference at this end? ?You have seen nothing yet,Portugal.
Do you wonder why many of us have been lobbying MPs and Gordon Brown?
Most of the rest of Europe, takes for granted, a working democracy and an effective POlice Force,run with integrity and in accordance with the laws of the land. Not so Portugal.
Your POlice break the secrecy laws, day in and day out[Times journalist source, Claw ].You have no system of accountability.
Portugal, you are a bloody disgrace to Europe.

10 April 2008 22:51

Sass said...

Hiya to anyone who is around (and who isn't from Vile's psychoblog).

Just troll patrolling.

Thanks Rosie for adding that link. I had no idea of what to do.

China - did I not get the whole article? Sorry! Didn't realise. Was half asleep when I did it - will add it now.

helenm said...

Hi Sassy,

Your link at the bottom gave the whole article, so don't worry. Keyboad seems ok this morning after the severe bashing I gave it last night.!!! Any mistakes are purely on my part!LOL

An excellent article Chinadoll, thankyou.

CM on sky news at present catch up later.

chinadoll said...

It seems to me that in divulging this information to the pj, the intention of Kate McCann, was to tell them anything, no matter how small, that may be of relevance to the disappearance of Madeleine.

It was an honest comment, that the pj chose to leak and the timing of the leak, was clearly designed to undermine the McCanns and their effort to promote the Amber Alert System.

Mrs McCann told police: "While we were having breakfast, Madeleine said, 'Mummy, why didn't you come when we were crying last night?'

Clarence Mitchell stated on Sky News, that the children had not been distressed or even awake during the checks that were made on them that night - hence, the parents were rightfully puzzled by Madeleines comment. In addition, one of the tapas group was sitting in a room on the other side of the wall from the McCann children and heard nothing.

I therefore think it highly likely, that Madeleine and one of the twins did wake at some point during that night and most likely, when Kate and Gerry were asleep in bed themselves.

helenm said...

I have never seen CM so incensed about 'leaks' of Kate Mccann's statement. I think the boxing gloves are definitely on! Everyone, if possible try and watch the live interview on Sky news. Can't give you the link, not mastered that yet. Give us a few months!!

Have to go. Catch you all later.

chinadoll said...

In other words, if one of the twins was restless at some point in time during that night, it was heard by and enough to wake Madeleine who was sleeping in the same room, but was not loud enough to be detected by their parents sleeping in their bedroom.

chinadoll said...

Hi there Sassy & Helen - if you're still around. I have just been watching Sky News and there was a telephone interview with the Spanish journalist/presenter to whom the story was leaked by the pj. From what I picked up, he stated that he wanted to protect his source, but believed the information was leaked to him in an effort to smear the McCanns, who are suffering enough. He also stated that he thought Kate and Gerry McCann innocent of involvement in Madeleines disappearance.

Nasty, spitefuly, underhand, unprofessional, desperate pj.

chinadoll said...

Thanks for that Sassy,

I will delete my first post.

Sass said...

HelenM and China

Hi there

Took me ages to edit that last part of the post!

The whole shower just seems chaotic and unprofessional to me. If they are the "elite" then what are the others like???

Sass said...


Glad you got dead technical with your keyboard! I'm sure you'll find your solution in the handbook in the troubleshooting section!

Problem: Keyboard doesn't work.
Solution: Throw it against a wall and whack it a bit

kiwigirl said...

Good morning all

Madeleine never stood a chance, did she, with the PJ taking charge of her case.

I felt absolutely sick when I read what they had leaked while at work this morning, it was just unbelievable. All I can think of is a poor little girl who has been taken from her parents, who love her absolutely, and I keep asking myself why....? For the purpose of what? For the desire of whom? Why?

That whole story of Madeleine challenging Kate about why she did't go into her and the twins on the night of the 2nd is pure fabrication. There are nights in which you do leave your kids to 'cry' it out - we do frequently! There are nights where children do just cry out, whether it be due to night terrors or nightmares and you do simply listen to see if they settle, or not - to my mind this is what Kate was recounting...not the sinister account the PJ are leaking, and what timing - impecable as usual, my god if our police force acted like this the country would be up in arms!!!

As a mother of a five year old, just a couple of months older than Madeleine, this is just so upsetting!

Mum21 said...

Good Morning All.

I am laughing my head off here.
Not about the McCanns...not about Madeleine...and not even about the corrupt PJ.

I think Viv and her little band of followers have really lost the plot. THEY believe Clarence Mitchell leaked the McCann's police statement to the Spanish in an effort to discredit the PJ.

I have always had the opinion that Viv was one brick short of a full load....but now she has proved it to be a fact.

chinadoll said...

As Clarence Mitchell has just stated on Sky News, the very man who was brought in after the sacking of Goncalo Amaral - the very man who said he would put a stop to the leaks and smears, is currently here in the UK questioning members of the tapas group, when this latest and imo cynical underhand smear is leaked.

Was this sanctioned by Paulo Rebelo? If not, surely he will take the opportunity whilst here in the UK, to speak out and denounce this latest disgraceful and illegal leak.

melbel said...

Morning all
Thanks to China for the very good article, into the background of this case and the other scandals, in Portugal, including the paedophile ring,involving highranking politicians, in that land,as well as the concerns about the torture of Leonor Cipriano.
If her injuries had happened to a child, in a child protection inquiry, there would have been absolutely no doubt, that these were inflicted by a fist and a hard beating. The finding of her guilt, was clearly not unanimous.
The so called Secrecy laws,have led to a vacuum, in that society, where leaks, half rumours and lies, sometimes for money, are fed to journalists, who never correct them,so the lies get printed and recycled.
In the article, Ana Mouro, Spokeswoman, at the PJ press office, says that "We are an elite." They like to be compared to the American FBI.
How divorced from reality, they are. Thugs, not gentlemen, in my book.
I noticed on TWS, that the Portugese posters, as well as the usual blinkered suspects, such as Lizzy and Mrs consecutive numbers, blame Clarence, for the leaks,refusing to accept that this leak,is from the Portugese Police.They think someone is trying to discredit their Police.When will that country wake up and have a debate, about the rotten and immoral and unjust things happening over there?The rest of the world,is sure debating it and the PJ,need blame nobody else,but themselves.
Jojam is pointing out, that CM, has no control over the Spanish and Portugese media.
This article illustrates the calculating way the PJ,have conducted this investigation.Anyhow, they look like fools, when they make claims about 100% dna matches,when the inventor of this profiling, Prof Jeffers, says it does not prove what they want and has offered to appear in Court, as an unpaid witness, for the McCanns.

I glanced at our newspapers and many are leading with it, all in the context of leaks being from the Portugese Police.The leaks are very full account of witness statements and I defy any decent person,Portugese or otherwise, to say that this is right and just.
Re what was said, if true, we do not have the context and it shows, to me, that the couple were making a very frank and honest statement, which is in line with my general impression of them.What child killer would give that sort of information?
The timing of the leak, shows a desperate PJ.The case has collapsed, so they thought they would take a last pop,at these people,knowing this would go down well,in Portugal.
Hang your heads in shame Portugal.Your world standing has just bombed.
There are decent lawyers and other people out there, who need to start the debate now.See you at the European Court, POrtugal.Your dirty washing will be washed in Public and how.

Mum21 said...

In my opinion the PJ have done Portugal a great deal of harm.
Harm that will take years and years to be put right...if ever.

If the PJ cannot respect their own secrecy laws...then how the hell can they expect us to respect them?

In my opinion the McCann's are innocent of all implied accusations against them...other than leaving the children alone. But even if I was proved wrong my opinion of the PJ and their tactics would remain the same.

Several Portuguese posters have referred to the PJ as one of the ELITE. I now ask them Elite what? Elite liars and cheats? Elite bully's? Elite gang of thugs?

I could go on and on.

melbel said...

Hi Mum
I had to smile, to,as Vile meets every single one of the criteria for psychopathy, as revealed in her scribblings. It takes one to know one.

Mum21 said...

Hi Melbel,
I honestly do not believe Viv has the mental capability to even understand the word psychopathy.

IMHO of course.

melbel said...

Hi China
Thanks for the Sky news summary, as we do not have that.
People are not daft and can see what is afoot here.At least the Spanish journalist,admitted what had gone on re the smearing tactics and does not believe them guilty of involvement in the disappearance/disposal, of their daughter.
In something as serious as this, I do not think Gordon Brown will attempt to smooth things over and the gloves will have to come off.

chinadoll said...

Hi Mum21 and Melbel,

The Spanish reporter interviewed by Sky News, actually repeatedly stated that he thought Kate and Gerry McCann were 'completely innocent'

Tulip said...

Good morning everyone.

In the absence of confirmed fact, one has to go a great deal by gut feel -- moulded by one's own reactions, those of others you trust, what one reads/hears via the decent media,then you put the whole lot through the filter of logic and common sense and personal experience of things like the realities of parenthood to come out with an opinion.

My gut feel has, of course, always been that the McCanns are innocent of anything more than very poor judgment.

But after this leak I feel incandescent rage -- PLUS an increasing certainty of what I just 'felt' before.

It is quite apparent to all thinking people that the leak is the real news story -- not what a toddler said in passing to her mum at breakfast. And it's bad, bad news for the PJ.

I think of what my 3-year-old granddaughter says sometimes about her loving mum when she's having a tantrum -- evidence of child abuse???? Hardly.

I recall her telling me sincerely (!) 'Mummy's horrible, she MADE me go out when it was cold'. 'Mummy bumped my leg'. Lol lol to coin a phrase.

The leak was so arrogant and so blatantly against the Portuguese 'laws' as well as human decency, and had such an obvious motive (NB timing) that even the Vile lot recognise this -- hence their trying to pin it on Clarence!

I don't have time to research all the amazing material that some of you find, but I want to thank you for digging out all this info and giving us sight of it, even though some of it makes my blood run cold.

Finally -- to those (you know who you are) who have trouble with their computers. My husband is 'into' computers. When something goes wrong he sits down and fiddles forever with settings or talks at length to 'experts' at the end of a helpline.

Last week the TV wouldn't go onto the digital channels -- I gave it a kick. It grunted and obeyed.

When my husband's PC played up he was all ready for the propeller head bit, so I said why not hit it? Problem solved.

This advice is given with no guarantee or admission of personal liability ...

Oh -- if the Spanish journalist believed in the McCanns' innocence and pain why did he get the story into the press? Greed overcame conscience no doubt. Nothing new there then. But fancy admitting it.

Jojam said...

Good Morning all,

I have grave concerns with regards to the motives for the leaks of the transcript.........The leak was made as the McCanns visited the European Parliament to appeal for a Europe-wide child alert system..................

Why?..........Surely ALL would want the system adopted...........

Who wouldn't?

Why not?

Who would benifit if the system is not adopted?

I am concerned as to the timing of the leak.

melbel said...

Hi again
Really my last word this morning,I see the penny has dropped on TWS, re this really being a PJ leak, as admitted by the Spanish TV journalist.
They now think that Clarence could be a drinking partner of this Journalist. What a load of idiots and we really should not take their ramblings, seriously.
Many people continued to believe the world was flat........
Off now, as daft old twit, I forgot my hair appointment, yesterday and am in today,but need to buy some wine, as a peace offering.
Morning and regards to all. x x x

chinadoll said...

Hi there Tulip,

We are all agreed on the fact that this latest and very serious (by its implication) smear by the pj, brings the whole of Portugals Judiciary and legal system, into disrepute.

I would feel very embarassed if I was a Portuguese citizen, that their so called 'elite pj' have repeatedly conducted themselves in an illegal and underhand fashion.

They are a disgrace to their country.

chinadoll said...

Bye Melbel,

Have a good day. I usually have my hair done on Fridays, but my hairdresser is on holiday, so I will have to manage myself lol

Must catch up with some chores, as I have visitors later. Will pop in and out when I can.

Mum21 said...

I see the DE article has been pulled.
But not before I managed to get this message across to them.

To The Daily Express

I applaud you for your honest article today... it was a long time coming.

Now I, as one of the British people expect you to take it a step further.
I want to see Portuguese heads roll over statement leaks coming from a country who proclaims to be governed by strict secrecy laws.
I want to know WHY this was allowed to happen. I want to know how come a country who is a member of the EU is allowed to stoop to such thugish tactics.
I want to know how come members of the PJ who are awaiting trial for brutality are allowed to work on the McCann case.
I want to see this whole case re-assessed by the EU as a matter of urgency.
If Portugal do not agree to the involvement of the EU...then they should be kicked out.

Now are the press. You have the power to act and push buttons.
So do it the name of British justice.
Thank you

chinadoll said...

Just one more thought.

Tulip - your comment about the Spanish reporter, does beg the question why, when he believes in the complete innocence of the McCanns, is he prepared to leak this story nonetheless.

It seems to me, that, apart from the fact that it is his job, he is savvy enough to know, that if he did not report the leak/smear, having received same, that the pj source, would most likely take his illegal information elsewhere - hence, it would be reported, come what may.

chinadoll said...

Jolly well said Mum21 and I hope it gets actioned.

Tulip said...

What is this shouting person doing here -- would someone direct him/her to the Other Place -- or maybe he/she escaped from there?

Oh I see it's gone. Thanks.

Tulip said...

China, you're probably right about the Spanish reporter -- if it had not been his scoop it would have been someone else's.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hey Mum,

Just popping in on troll patrol.

I would send your post to every single Newspaper Editor you can think of.

Portugal imo is a bloody disgrace.

Bye for now.

chinadoll said...

Speak your mind,

Why don't to think before you open your gob.

The McCanns were in Brussels, to promote the Amber Alert System. They were invited there by Members of the European Parliament and action groups/lobbyists, who are trying to bring this very important system into European Law, which will mean that all European Member Countries will have a defined and successfully proven sytem in place, to protect our children. Like it or not, but where the McCanns go, the cameras follow and maximum publicity is a dead cert. If this helps other missing children in the future, then what is your problem with that?

Don't bother coming back here to spit your venom. No doubt you would be a member of lynch mob you mentioned in your post.

Tulip said...

It's OK China -- I think Tinks did her thing! Tinks you do have very good timing.

chinadoll said...

Thanks for waving your little wand Tinks, it always does the job.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hi girls,

Always happy to oblige where I can :0)

Just looking in from work, I'm so angry today I can hardly concentrate, which doesn't help when you have a boss in a bad mood breathing down your neck. I need that like a hole in the head this morning, lol.

See you later.

Sass said...

Just on troll patrol too. See Tinks, fairy with attitude, has already magicked someone away!

chinadoll said...

Anyway, where is it reported what time Madeleine was awake and crying? As I said earlier, it is possible that she was disturbed by one of the twins - as they shared a room, but that the disturbance was not loud enough to wake her parents - who could have been sleeping, rather than absent. This would explain why K & G were puzzled, as the children were not awake/crying/disturbed during their half hour checks.

Tulip said...

I ses that one report (I think Sky) states that Rachel Oldfield said she had been in the adjoining room throughout the evening of the 2nd -- not all night as Vile's crew have it. If that is the case, couldn't she have been babysitting Jane's children? Do we know whether the entire party was at the Tapas bar on the 2 May? Maybe they weren't.

In that case it sounds perfectly feasible that Rachel was in 5b and heard nothing during the evening --and yes, Madeleine could indeed have cried later when her parents were asleep. Fresh air and exercise do make people sleep deeply.

When I stay over with my son's family my granddaughter often cries at night but they only investigate if it continues.

Rosiepops said...

Afternoon Everyone

Well have just been reading the Vile ones blog and apparently I am white with rage and apparently I am single handedly going to destroy Portugal. Excuse me while I do this;


If only I really did have this much power, if I did I would have gone for the PJ before now!

Anyway I am not going to destroy Portugal, the PJ and the Portuguese government are going to do that all by themselves and they have been systematically doing so this past 11 months! Today marks the beginning of the end for those within the PJ ranks who have something to hide, from the investigators themselves to the wannabe office workers, to the groupies who let their knickers down at the mere sight of the ugly PJ and believe anything they are fed (metaphorically speaking of course lololololololol)

Apparently I am not the only that thinks like this and we are not the only ones on here that think as we do.

While I was there I saw a post come up from someone calling themselves Viv Is Mad, of course it has been deleted from the vile TWS site but the person has put it up on Supertroll's and I am going to put it up on here too, it is very very interesting and the more people that see it the better!

Rosiepops said...

This is the post, see what you think.

"viv is mad said...
Hi Supertroll I have put this on here because I know it will be deleted of the muck peddling Vile Viv's blog. I feel this is important that people know this information, thanks for giving us the chance to put up information that the peddlers of lies and filth would rather have kept quiet.

"viv is mad said...
Remember what I told you yesterday before this story broke? I told you I had good news? Now perhaps you will believe me in future?

Forget all that Old news you are going on about, anyone with any sense knew there was something like this and now it is out and that is good news for Kate and Gerry. It actually shows that they have been telling the truth all along and despite what they knew this would do to them, they still told the absolute truth to the Portugese police.
It shows that the PJ leaks have been nothing but scurrilous lies and innuendo. 40 Questions? Now we know the questions have been asked and answered completely honestly.

The newspapers and TV stations are now not concentrating on this, they are going for the 'real' story behind this, "The leaks from the PJ" whether you lot like it or not this is the real story and it is this that will now hang the PJ.

I told you I had good news yesterday, this is it. There will have to be a full and complete inquiry into these leaks from the PJ. The Portuguese government are going to be forced into holding one by the EU and according to my 'reliable' sources I am told and I believe that an outside police force is now going to investigate the PJ starting with Goncalo Amaral and even scum bag Ex PJ Paulo Cristaovo is going to be drawn into this, as if these two do not have enough charges and trials in court to face, no apparently they are now going to have a few more! Also Paulo Rebelo, I believe is also going to be investigated, no one is safe here anymore. The Portuguese government are seething, the tourist industry is now being hit big time, there is an economic downturn and now everyone knows that Madeleine was indeed abducted and will not trust holiday with their family in Portugal for fear of paedophilia abductions and a police force that are appearing to cover up for these abductions, by bizarrely blaming the parents in each case. The leaking of certain other classified information 'IS' also being investigated as we speak, this includes that leaked of sensitive witness info and phone numbers and addresses and witness statements to one Portuguese Journalist when Amaral was in charge.
Who ever is behind these leaks should be feeling very worried this morning, they are going to be scrutinised to within and inch of their lives.

The fantastic news for all those suffered with Casa Pia, the fantastic news for Cipriano and the great news for all missing children in Portugal is that the lid is going to be blown completely off of the PJ and the whole lot of them are going to be held in disrepute.

Think I am wrong? Think again. Who told Alsabella? Who predicted HIS demise off of the blog? Who knows that Alsabella is really Goncalo Amaral?

I am right, you see if I am not. you lot of suckers you have been played for fools and if the PJ have lied about all of this, what else have lied about?
What next will be investigated? How DNA miraculously found its way into the McCann hire car 25 days later?
How the dog handlers insisted the dogs keep walking around that one particular car with all the Madeleine posters still all over it until they signalled a positive?

It is all going to blow now, the s*** is really going to hit the fan.

Now watch the heads start to roll.

You know I am right. I have not been wrong yet in anything I have predicted, not from the very start of this. The stupid clown that thought this was a good time to play their trump card and try to spoil the McCann's chances of doing something for ALL missing children and their families, despite their relentless pain and suffering, got it completely and utterly wrong. In fact they are to be congratulated as the fool is responsible for helping to blow this case wide open, for all to see the smears, lies and leaks.

All the above content is as usual and of course In My Humble Opinion.

But mark my words the lot of you, take a copy of this and see if I am not wrong.

I know this will be deleted so of course a copy of this will go onto Supertroll's site for all of you fress thinking people that may actually like to read something of real interest for a change."

Friday, 11 April 2008 11:25:00 o'clock BST"

11 April 2008 11:37

JANEGT said...

hi all just quickly popping in


I agree with your letter tothe DE and yes, all Editors should be aware of our call re PJ and EU. They ae elite, well qualified, gentlemen, THUGS, LIARS, SNEAKY, LEAKY KNOW NOTHINGS who are a disgrace to Portugal, the EU and wider.....

In their futile attempt to discredit the McCanns once more, they have taken one step too far and really shot themselves and their country up.....GOOD!!!!

Their arrogant bravado helped to get the McCanns PROPER JUSTICE. Good for you idiot PJ. You now deserve all that is coming to you.

Your country will never recover its tourist industry now and now your 'elite gentlemen' one huge joke.

Well deserved.

Tulip said...

Oooh -- er! Alsabella is Gonc!!!Mind boggles. We must be careful, not to become crazy conspiracy theorists too!

Apart from that I suppose anything is possible. I hope that Viv Is Mad is right, I really do.

JANEGT said...


Good Morning or 'Good Moaning' .....

How did you fix your keyboard? What was causing the problems?

chinadoll said...

Sky News have just interviewed Stephen Dorrell Member of Parliament for K & G'S Constituency.

He is going to contact the Foreign Office to complain about this and other leaks.

He said the pj need to look into their own house, as there is someone in their structure who is not playing according to the rules.

So the matter will now be looked at by the Foreign Office.


Rosiepops said...


I am going to read your letter now and I think it important that we all now start to apply pressure and to urge anyone we can to do the same.

If it means writing the letter out and forwarding it to them to send on to their MP's, their MEP's and the PM and the Leicestershire police.

NOW is the time to do this.

We must now press for a full and open public inquiry into all of this farcical shambolic investigation.

Tulip said...

Great news China. They went a leak too far! Ooops!

Janet, I doubt if Helen's keyboard will work until she kicks it ...

chinadoll said...


Your post 12.13....exactly.

Nowhere is it stated that the children woke up when the parents were absent - they could well have been in bed at the time.

JANEGT said...


Yes, about time too.

But, let's *thank* the idiot leaky sneaky Plod Jokes for doing 'one leak TOO FAR' enabling this to happen now.

the only job well done they ever did......

Rosiepops said...

China Yeeeeeeesssssssssssssssss

Please let us all write to our MEPs and MPs NOW, we have to keep the momentum going!

Remember the local elections coming up?

isis said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
JANEGT said...

viv is mad...

apart from *A being Gonc*, I too hope this is true.

chinadoll said...


I cannot stop laughing at your alledged rage and alledged powers.

Hilarious.......I'm almost crying with laughter lololololololololol

Rosiepops said...

Yes they did go one leak too far as Viv Is Mad predicted!

Let's hope that this person is correct in the other predictions too!

isis said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
isis said...

Sorry ,had to delete my 2 previous posts .Was trying to post the link to sky that helen wanted but it wouldnt paste the full link.

chinadoll said...


Still laughing my head off.

Remind me not to upset you - ever lolololololol

chinadoll said...


I agree about the letter writing, although I think the appropriate wheels are now in motion. It would be a good idea to put the addresses of the Leics Police and the Foreign office up in a post, so we all know where to write.

chinadoll said...

Hi Janegt,

Do you think we should take bets about which members of the pj get sacked, lose their pensions and suffer a fraction of the pain they have inflicted on this family?

Rosiepops said...

Jane and Tulip

Can I ask you how you know that A is not Gonc?

Look at the use of the letter A, it is something I picked up on a couple of weeks ago.

Now look at the number of times A appears in Amaral and look at how many names on the anti site that are actually an anagram or virtually an anagram of Goncalo AMARAL.


How did this person predict the demise of A's site?

Strange this is all happening now and it really is a subconscious act to choose a name like this when choosing a fake ID, apparently I read a behavioural psychologist report saying it is actually quite hard for people to choose an ID especially if they go in for multiple ones!

By the way I believe this could be correct and also by the way, much of what i have been saying about this whole thing has also come true.

So let's wait and see, I am reserving my judgement and much about Alsabella can be explained if you follow this line of thinking. How else would a ???woman who says they are such a family orientated person spend so much time virtually 24/7 on the DX and her own blog?

Tulip said...

Don't get me wrong, tee hee.

I don't MIND if Alsabella is Amaral -- would explain a lot. Could Claws be Cristovao? Could Viv be ....?? And WHO did Gina REALLY have to lunch?

But this could all be a Theory too Far!! After all, Viv has graciously come to the conclusion that only Rosie among us is a member of the McCann family (namely Gerry).

How about a Little Britain episode with Rosie/Gerry and Alsa/Gonc twirling their parasols along the promenade -- 'We're SENHORAS'

JANEGT said...


I didn't say #A was definitively NOT Gonc. Just I doubt that would be the case, but who knows? Apart from that one stumbling block for me, I hope the rest is true as I think along those lines too as you know.....that's all. I am not arguing the point, just not taking it as 100% accurate as it is very far fetched. I am not judging it, just not accepting it as the 'truth'.........

Tulip said...

Rosie you could be right -- time will tell.

Rosiepops said...


Would you like to gather all the info on all the names we should write to?

Don't mention them on here, we will email each other with the list. There are a couple I would like to add, but I am not going to put them up here.

Shall we collate a list and find the addresses and then make an official list?

I am just going to pop out for around half an hour with the dog, but I will be back soon.

Anyone else that can think of who to write to please email me.

JANEGT said...

anyone recall

the mystery surrounding the 10th or maybe 11th tapas members?

It was allegedly -I shall not name them, - from the Foreign Office. Hmmmmmmmmm.

Vested Interests coms to mind here?

Rosiepops said...

Tulip re 12.50

Who is going to be "the only Gay in the village?"


chinadoll said...

Still giggling,

Rosiepowers, Mistress of the Universe lolololololol

Tulip said...

Rosie, could we ask Notdoc to take this role?? After all, his alter ego is SO feminine.

calcite51 said...

Good morning everyone - well said, Clarence and Mum 21. Glad you got your message in DE - I agree with Rosie about submitting your comment to ALL newspapers,etc.

Here's the link to Sky News - there's also a video - didn't bother to paste the video.,,30100-1312575,00.html

Vivismad - well said and Rosie thanks for posting vivismad in this blog.

Rosiepops said...


Now reporting that this was a blatant attempt by the PJ to smear Kate and Gerry.

Also released by the McCann's that Paulo Rebelo has not even had the courtesy to call them since he has been in the UK and not about these latest smears and leaks either.

Rosiepops said...

China and Tulip

You can laugh, I have a lot to do to keep these powers topped up you know.

Notdoc of the frilly skirt over his trousers you mean?

See you back soon.

Calcite thanks and you action is needed too, it will not go amiss and I will forward you an address or two, if you do not mind doing it?

calcite51 said...

Rosiepops - sure any way I can help - already thought of the Canada's PM, Minister for External Affairs, Canada's Ambassador to Portugal, Portugal's Ambassador in Canada. Did I miss anyone?

calcite51 said...

Some people on the other blog are saying that CM tape has been pulled on Sky News - just went to Sky News - it is still there.

calcite51 said...

Here's the link to the video:

Tulip said...

The video of Clarence is certainly still there -- actually I think he did a good job of telling it like it is.

calcite51 said...

I think CM did a wonderful job. May be some more leaks coming up though from a comment good ole Clawdia said. Mind you, she like to "pretend" she knows more than she actually does.

It seems to be me quite a few times she was proven wrong.

Would like to know how the trial for the 5 PJ is going. Does anyone know?

chinadoll said...

London Evening Standard (This is London) states inter alia:-

Portuguese police have so far refused to comment about the leaked statements..............

They must be following the secrecy rule------as they do, when it suits them.

Pj - has the cat got your tongue?

chinadoll said...

Daily Mail headline

Tapas Seven demanded private jet and 5-star hotels to return to Portugal for Madeleine questioning, Portuguese police claim

Yet another desperate leak by the pj to that gutter newspaper 24horas. Panic truly is setting in. They clearly intend to up the anit and continue the smears, prior to shelving the case imo.

calcite51 said...

Chinadoll - great article. Did you notice that Roberio(spelling???) has gone back to Portugal?

Also, the all important document Kate's diary was not requested for by the PJ's. I guess the diary must have gone to the same place the 40 questions that Kate refused (personally, I think it was most likely) couldn't answer.

chinadoll said...

Oops, that should have read 'up the ante...


Yes, I noticed that too and I agree that any questions Kated did not ask were worded in such a way that there was no possible honest explanation ie why is dna from your daughters corpse in the hire car?

I remember reading that Gerry was totally cut up and in tears and Amaral was waving a report at him saying it contained absolute proof of Madeleines death. Gerry begged to be shown the dna report and or medical evidence of same. Amaral stated something to the effect that 'this is the report that matters' was the report on the cadaver dogs, that is what they were banking on or should I say barking on about?

Tulip said...

These '40 questions'. They have become part of the mythology. Who said Kate didn't answer 40 questions? The PJ? Oh, well, that's true then ...

Rosiepops said...


Spot on and time to do something.

I am not going to leave it up to Stephen Dorrell, I have no doubt he will do as he says he will, but I think we need to be putting pressure on several different people and the more people that do this, the better, people have to listen.

JANEGT said...

DAILY EXPRESS HYS on for Madeleine and Leaks.

wonder how long it will last this time? see you later on tonight.

helenm said...

Gone already Jane. See you later.

Mandz said...

They are an utter DISGRACE and should be ASHAMED. Kate told them everything in the HOPE to find answers as to why this had happened and thought there might be a clue in what Maddie said. The world case “SEE” and you have embarrassed your Country and the people “world wide” are not fooled by the “likes” of YOU LOT.. You are protecting the real criminals who got away and WHY?????????????????????

The McCann’s have asked for this leak to be investigated however will they “investigate”..? In my opinion you don’t ask the “public servants” answerable to the people they appear to DICTATE and TELL you HOW THINGS ARE…SCUM…. BULLYBOYS…….

Mandz said...


“There is another link between the Cipriano and McCann cases,” a Portimao lawyer claimed. “You know, it’s like if Manchester United lose a big game: next week the pressure they have to win is very big. “The PJ are beginning to worry that now they might lose the Cipriano case. If that happens, they have to win with the McCanns.”

helenm said...

Thankyou to all those of you who have been asking about my keyboard, if you look at my post of 9.26 you will see that I fixed the problem!! However I would sincerely like to thank Sassy for her support and excellent technical advice, she said:

Sass said...

Glad you got dead technical with your keyboard! I'm sure you'll find your solution in the handbook in the troubleshooting section!

Problem: Keyboard doesn't work.
Solution: Throw it against a wall and whack it a bit

11 April 2008 09:58

I notice that many of you gave me similar advice!!!LOL

Jane, sorry but you can't have me with a finger function like you! Only room for one finger malfunction on this site.

I thought the interview given by CM was excellent. I understood him to say that there have been apparent leaks from the witness statements made in England and that the Leicestershire police were to undertake their own investigation. Let us hope that all these leaks ae not swept under the table. I think that heads are about to roll when Rebelo gets back to Portugal.

Ena Guardian said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rosiepops said...

Hi Everyone

Did everyone get their email from me today?

It is to send on to a list of email addresses I have included.

Mandz said...

Yes Rosie Thank You I'm doing it now!

helenm said...


Not received e - mail, not sure who I can send a letter onto over here though.

archer said...

Good evening everyone

Hi Rosie

I have returned today in a better frame of mind than the one I left in last night! I was so angry and so frustrated for Gerry and Kate when I read what was going on yesterday....

A lot of interesting 'reads' today have helped put things into a better perspective. I pray to god that these b**t**ds are outed and outed quickly. However, I won't hold my breath.

I have been mulling over 'Justice' pj style, in particular next months impending 'secret' hearing of good 'ol Gonc' and his buddies. Now, just imagine what further implications there would be to Portugal's reputation if he were to be found guilty?? Mmmnn. Is that likely??? I would of course like to think that 'Viv is mad' poster has got it covered and this is what will happen!

Interesting times ahead!

archer said...

Hello Mandz and Helen

Rosie - No e-mail!

Mandz said...

Hi Archer!

Good post! Do they think we are that daft?
Stupid idiots.. perhaps this is a good thing because it proves what Gerry and Kate and family members have been saying all along..!

Tinkerbell43 said...

Evening All,

Just popping in briefly for now.

Rosie, I have received the addresses - thank you.

I have just watched Clarence on Sky news video. He came across very well putting everything totally into context.

The only ones that have been shown up for what they are, are imo the PJ.

They will be seen around the world as having employed a dirty tricks campaign, it is scandalous and imo reflects very badly on Portugal as a whole.

IMO, these are very desperate measures, employed to smear the Mccanns as much as possible before shelving the case.

But why stoop this low on a day when attention should have focused on making Europe a safer place for our children. Makes you wonder doesnt it!!!

archer said...

Hi Tinks

But they must not shelve the case -just acknowledge they were barking up the wrong tree!!! and start investigating PROPERLY . That is all any of us wants hear.

Madeleine is still missing, she has to be somewhere! A young child like that does not just disappear without trace, there must be clues. Someone knows something and it's past time that
they spoke out! IMO x

Mandz said...

Hi Tinks,

It does make one wonder and in fact very my opinion something is not right...

Kick them hard... out of EU...

ps Rosie all emails gone and letter typed ready to go tomorrow.

archer said...

Did someone speak????

Justice for Madeleine and her family.

helenm said...

Tinks, Sassy,

Are you not able to put a block on Dopple?

helenm said...

Don't give him leg room Tinks. He'll disrupt the site all night.

Mandz said...

If you really want to know the truth, your only hope is that the British police and the PJ will together be able to crack the case.

Dadto3 re your post above:

The people who took her will not come forward dadto3 we know that however it was the elite buffoons job to “investigate” which in my opinion they did not do very well hence the smear and struggle and desperado attempts to “blame” the parents who are innocent.

The only thing that is going to crack for them is the lobster on the PJ lunch plate.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hey Archer,

I totally agree, unfortunately I think the only chance Madeleine has is for this investigation to be passed over to the Britsh Police.

Its never been an investigation imo, it has been a vendetta!

archer said...


I think it was the lure of your avatar...:¬))

helenm said...

Archer!!! you are naughty!lol. Don't you know that us leprechauns have impeccable taste and do not take kindly to slugs!!

archer said...


Blush blush..:¬))

Mandz said...


I don’t know however who said they were coming to “charge” arrest the McCanns?!!!! You lot!! Dream on..

They don’t know the meaning of the word “truth”.

archer said...

Popping out on the taxi-run, back soon.

Mandz said...

Going off for a bit ladies!

helenm said...

Seeing as I vowed never to post on TWS I need to answer a question posted by Marga her, (hope you all don't mind?)

marga said...
These people must think the portuguese are a bunch of fools!!

Not the Portuguese as a whole, no, but certainly the likes of you and your alter egos, and certainly some members of the PJ who have bitten off more than they can chew!! These are the people who have brought disgrace to Portugal. Are you so arrogant that you completely disregard the lessons you should have learned from Casa Pia and the Leonora Cipriano case? If you are, then I have to answer YES I do think you are stupid.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hi Helen,

No problem at all and well said!

Sass said...


Hope everyone is fine!

Nicely said Our 'Ell

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hiya Sass,

Are you around for now, need to pop off for 15 ?

Sass said...


Am indeed! Go for it girl!

Sass said...

Our 'Ell

You still around?

helenm said...

Sassy, I'm here, just looking at Corrie!!

Mum21 said...

Good Evening Ladies.

If all Portuguese people are like Marga, Ana, Claudia and Alsabella....then yes, they are a bunch of stupid fools.
Claudia also suffers from an over inflated ego. She thinks she is the bees knees...when in fact she is a young nobody.
In fact she bores me to tears.

As for Doppleganger...well what can I say except he is constantly stirring people up on both blogs.
Then when he gets a ticking off from Viv he moves on to Claudia.
He is safer with her because they both suffer with the ego get along fine.

I honestly believe the counter attack going on on Viv's blog today is bravado...they know they are beaten. Even Claudia does...that is why she keeps coming out with her one liners that say nothing at all....except of course lololololololololololol :-)

archer said...


There are about 49 different Police Forces policing England.

Mistakes do happen and when they do we acknowledge it. This is done by way of external investigation !!! The person suspected of any wrongdoing is either suspended from duty or moved to a non-compromising position pending the outcome.

Can you see this Portugal!!

Can you see this Marga!!
That's the way to do it.

Sass said...

You get Corrie where you live? I only get the American soaps (in German - nothing is subtitled here). A friend of mine in Slovenia gets Only Fools and Horses, Vicar of Dibley, etc on the Croatian channels - all in English with Croatian subtitles. I am green with envy. I only get Slovenija I (from former Yugoslavia) which is the Slovene cultural channel. The stuff on there that isn't from Slovenia is also subtitled, but it's so boring that I never watch it!

archer said...

Hello Mum

Hope you are well.

Mum21 said...

Hi Archer, I am fine.
How are you?

Mum21 said...


In fact I have been busy sending emails. I have so far sent about half of them.
Will send the rest later this evening.

archer said...


Have had a 'good day' shopping.

Daughter asked me to get her some false eye-lashes, but not too thick, else people would think they were false!!!! duh :¬))

I got them.

archer said...

Not received mail from Rosie, but will get stuck in when I do.x

Sass said...

Hiya Mum21 and Archer

Agree with you, Mum21, about Clawdia. "Silly little girl" comes to mind. The little girl certainly comes out when she sends purrs and miaows (or whatever it was) from her cat to Notdoc - who in turn sends his greetings to the cat. I am beginning to wonder if her bedroom is done out in Hello Kitty d├ęcor. Her ego is so big I wonder how she can actually squeeze through her parents' front door to said Hello Kitty bedroom.

In any case the regular Portuguese posters are hardly ambassadors for their country - but then Vile isn't really one for ours either!

Archer - that is the difference between us and the posters on the bleugh. We acknowledge that mistakes can happen - in all areas of life. The bleugh is too busy being perfect to acknowledge anything like that. They are perfect parents (bringing up new age travellers who dump beer cans all over the ground according to the pictures), the Portuguese come from a "perfect" country where mistakes simply aren't made (like yeah right), etc.

Mum21 said...


I do believe we have a flea on the blog.
Could you swat it please?

Tinkerbell43 said...

Evening All,

I assume the Practical Jokers are now on their way back to Portugal!!. No apologies or condemnation of these latest leaks before they left then!

Can someone confirm for me, am I right in understanding before they arrived, they asked our police to conduct these interviews in secrecy so that it wouldnt affect the on-going enquiry ?

Tinkerbell43 said...



archer said...

Sass Hiya

They will not acknowledge mistakes there. IMO PJ either! To do so would bring the whole house down like a pack of cards!!!!!

Mum21 said...


I can confirm that.
As I am sure you have noticed our police have not uttered a word.
They must be very tempted though.

Tinkerbell43 said...


I can certainly confirm our police have remained professional.

Mum21 said...

I can see the splat on my screen Tinks.
Many thanks.

Mum21 said...


It appears you did not swat hard enough. te he he
Have another go.

helenm said...

Hi Mum and Archer.

Sassy, We have a sky dish, but only get free channels.We have some sort of viewing card from England for ITV, channel 5. We do not subscribe to sky sports, that's the reason I had to watch the football at the nearest pub the other night.

When people talk about being relaxed over here, they are not far wrong. I wouldn't dream of going into a pub in England, on my own and sit watching a football match!! My son thinks I'm SAD!!! Never mind the better half is back on Monday so will have to cut down on time spent on computer.

Tinkerbell43 said...


A little joke,

Whats the last thing that goes through a flies mind, when he hits the windscreen ?

He's A...hole :0)

Mum21 said...

Very funny Tinks. te he he.

archer said...


Even a pre-menstrual/menopausal woman like me wouldn't go into a pub on my own alone sit watching a game!

helenm said...

Archer, I was sat there like Billy no mates!!! A Cola lite lasted me the whole of the game!!!

archer said...


Talking of Billy-no-Mates.....

Tinkerbell43 said...


Thanks for ignoring the minor irritation we seem to have.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Go on then Doppel get it out of your system. I bet your wife thinks she married to a grown up.

You really are showing yourself up for the silly little man you are.

Sass said...


Am back - was preparing an article to post either tomorrow or whenever there is no news. Mandz sent it and it's very good. It's just a case of the "publish now" button and it's up! Dead easy.

Some people subscribe to Sky here, too. They have an account in Britain and the money is taken out on a monthly basis. Freeview is a much better idea!

Rosiepops said...


i thought I had swiched it over to invited members only but I see restricted to team members! Sorry

Rosiepops said...


Will you switch it over to invited members only or shall I?

Sass said...


I'll do it

Tinkerbell43 said...

A message from Christabel,

She's having a ball and she sends her regards to everyone.

Sass said...

Tis done!
Everything suddenly went so slowly! Bloody Google!

Rosiepops said...

Hi Tinks

What the bloody hell did that stupid idiot do that for?

What triggered him off? the fool, can we help he hand his nasty mates have been proved wrong?

Rosiepops said...


it still says restricted to teram members

Rosiepops said...

Oh right it has switched back now!

Why did the fool do this?

helenm said...

Thought I was Billy No Mates again!!!

Sass said...


Just sorted it!

Rosiepops said...

Hi Helen

Sorry, I didn't mean to shut the door on you lol

jak said...

Hi all, it's been a while for me to post on here, hope you are all good and well, and congrats to Melbel on her new Granddaughter.(I have read when I get a min).

This new LEAK has had me V angry all day,IMO, it's now, not just about the McCanns but discrediting any good which may come out of this sad story, I find this sinister in the extreme.
The Europe wide alert system has been the only really productive and beneficial media campaign since Madeleine disappeared, other than the appeals for her return.

For the PJ to wait for this campaign, to release this, only reflects on them and their desperate attempts to disparage this couple, before they close the case due to a lack of evidence. Thus giving themselves enough of an out ( well, couldn't really think of another way of describing it without swearing) by their lack of investigating the real crime of Madeleine's abduction.Shameful.

I have to say I don't believe all of the PJ or Portugal as a whole should be held to blame for this, quite the contrary, their country are exactly the same as ours, there are good and bad in every walk of life. There is no point in blaming in an entire race or police force for the short-comings of a few, in doing so I think this only breeds hatred from others .Which is also unhealthy for all concerned and at the moment the McCanns are going to be the ones to take the brunt.

I see doppel is back for a little stir, things must be boring elsewhere. LOL.

chinadoll said...

Good Evening Ladies,

Anything new?

JANEGT said...

jane here

If I am in, it is the old link Sass sent first time we had to do this.


Rosiepops said...


yes seen it, thanks. In my haste to help Tinks I checked the wrong box!

Sass said...


Thanks! Am also to say hi from Jakrla!

helenm said...


Thought you had locked me out due to my inappropriate dress code!!!LOL

Rosiepops said...

Hi Jak

Good to see you

Sass said...


I didn't see your post when I wrote that! Will delete!

Rosiepops said...


that will teach you, you bear ass little hussy ;-)

Sass said...

We're back onto anyone with a Google ID being able to post again - just to let you know!

Rosiepops said...

Hi China

You just missed Doppel or DOPE being the operative word throwing a hissy fit, the idiot bombarded the blog because he is a silly Billy no mates and wanted us to know he has no one to talk to.

jak said...

Hi folks, how you all doin?

JANEGT said...

the threats came after his boast about assassin getting her allegedly 5 yr old son to keep pressing the repeat button, and he did threaten to do that to us. then he did. You can see it. Just look up his idiotic boastful ignorant posts.

Oh dear. sicko saddo.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hi Jak,

Its really nice to see you, it has been a little while. Sounds like your day was like mine, I went to bed angry and woke up the same, lol.

ok now I've got it out my system!

Sass said...

Hiya Jak

I'm fine. How are you doing? Glad you made it here after such a long time.

helenm said...


Do you think I should change? Archer seems to think that is why doppel keeps coming on our blog.

jak said...

Hey Tinks, I think I got the news after you, still in the angry phase, LOL, good to " see " everyone again though.

melbel said...

Hiya chums
Just popping in,for five minutes,taking a break from turning up hems,on my holiday trousers [george]and got to the adverts, in Corrie, before I could thread the needle.
I might send you a pair each, to be getting on with.
I have the email and will do my best with that.These editors, are always wanting new angles and these issues,need to be addressed.
I keep thinking, that they need to sing, like canaries, but that is easily said, when you are not under this ridiculous,so called secrecy law.
I get the impression, that the latest disgraceful leak, is for domestic consumption and they do not seem to give a toss about what the world thinks about them.They will have to learn the hard way.
Lavvy cleaner,not doc, is crowing because a reportsaid that this profiling technique,was ok to use again [with lots of qualifications, that are minor details to the nutters beyond.]
On radio4, Today program, this morning, however,a scientist said, that the far larger research done by the International Society for Forensic medicine,said that there was no consensus. Also, if the inventor, said that the forensics did not show what the PJ,wanted and was prepared to be a free witness for the Mccs,it says everything.

JANEGT said...


glad your keyboard is ok now. No, doppeldope is always here anyway. Not just your 'revealing' outfit.


hi long long long time no 'see'

how are you?

Sass said...

HelenM and Archer

I reckon you're right!

He's gone back on the other blog now saying we are "slagging people off as usual" (does he even read the posts on Vile's bleugh?) so he "persuaded" us to shut down the blog. He is waiting for cyber pats on the back now. Stupid little man.

archer said...


The bare - a*s*d cheek of it !!


melbel said...

Hiya Jak
Thanks for good wishes about my grand daughter and good to see you.x

jak said...

Thank Sass, I couldn't pass up today's news without comment, the campaign is so important and for that leak to come out now, was just obscene.

Hopefully now there will be an investigation into the officers who are to blame.

Glad to see all of you are well

Sass said...

Hiya Melbel

Long time, no see! You have to be on the computer 24/7 now till Sunday! You have to fit a month's worth in in a couple of days!

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hi Melbel,

You've got it in one, it is purely for domestic consumption. I believe our front page article covers this area too!!!!

If I dont catch up with you before you go, have a lovely holiday, I will miss you telling the PJ to put it in their pipe and smoke it, lol.

Rosiepops said...


I do not think for one minute that all Portuguese people are like the majority of the ones I have come across on here, in fact I would refuse to believe this, but as for the PJ, well sorry at this moment in time I am sorry to say that I do not trust a single one of them and until they sort this mess out and start to put it right this is the way it is going to stay.

There is something intrinsically bad about the PJ and it needs correcting. I have long since thought that there was something being covered up here and it appears I am not wrong (in my opinion).

Instead of cow towing to the PJ I think the Portuguese people would be better putting pressure on them and their government to hold a full and open public inquiry into this whole mess.

What chance did Madeleine have? This is what is really ripping my heart out.

I have spent a while this afternoon emailing a whole bunch of people, because I feel so strongly that something must be done.

Anyone who did not get an email from me and wants to help, please can you email me on

And I will send you the list of email contacts and a draft letter for you to send off, the letter you can tweak as you see fit.

We have to apply pressure the person/s doing this leaking have to be caught and dealt with, they are the lowest of the low.

I for one am not prepared to stand by and do and say nothing.

Rosiepops said...

Listen here you twat and kingsize Dope, you did not persuade me to shut the blog down, I shut it down to stop you and you stupid games.

Now sod off you are not wanted.


melbel said...

I shove all the tabloids into my supermarket trolley and go to a quiet part of the shop to read them.[cheapskate ] and read in one, that it was pretty much the whole content of the witness statement that the swines, leaked. It also said, quite clearly, that the Police were called, almost straightaway and not the 45 minutes,later, that the illinformed ones claim.

Rosiepops said...


I do not want to know about your childish vendetta.
What someone did on the other blog has nothing to do with us, that poster does not post here any longer.

We do not want you here, you are a disruption, everytime you come on this board you try and make it about yourself.

No go away back to where you come from.

Girls just ignore him, his posts will be deleted,he is not welcome here.

jak said...

How' you Jane? Long time no hear or talk or write, you get my drift.

Hope you and loved ones are well.

:0) or as you would put it

IMO This whole thing stinks, and not just because I've seen Vivs pictures of her perfect family day out. Lol

Tinkerbell43 said...

Doppel when did you last see Assasin post on our blog. I understand she has her own. Why dont you be a brave little boy and go multiple post on there as that is the person you obviously want to hit back at. Doing it on here is the cowards way out.

JANEGT said...


seems to think Assassin is 'one of us'.






Rosiepops said...


You have an over rated opinion of yourself, we actually know we can restrict our site and have already done so before. We already had it set up, thanks but we do not need your help, you fool. It is not just a matter of switching it over, thanks all the same.

Now go back to that flithy diesease ridden blog and stay there, we do not want you.

Rosiepops said...

Another one of the longest goodbyes

Sass said...


Rosie isn't responsible for you writing here - you are. Have you even read the insults about people who post on here? Absolutely disgusting.

Now as Rosie said, go back to that vile, stinking blog where the dregs hang out.

helenm said...

My thoughts exactly Rosie, must have been taking lessons off Gina and Bianca.

Sass said...

I have just tried something out. If you notice nothing then it works brilliantly!

Sass said...

Can everyone post ok? Give it a try will ya?

Rosiepops said...

what is the matter with him? He is really showing himself up the poor deluded fool.

Must be really getting to hom knowing the sainted PJ has shot themselves in the head, because this has backfired on them BIGTIME!

Tinkerbell43 said...


Rosiepops said...


It is back to team members only!

Sass said...

Rosie - will send an e-mail!

Tinkerbell43 said...


Maybe its his hormones, lol.

helenm said...


Tinkerbell43 said...

Well maybe I'll take advantage...

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