Friday 29 February 2008

Madeleine: one fact, many lies, endless grief

THANK YOU JOJAM FOR SENDING US THE ARTICLE!
__________________________________________

It’s now 124 days since Madeleine McCann disappeared. Our correspondent charts a story that became global, lurid and often invented – and hears how the McCanns learnt to think positively after imagining the darkest scenarios and suffering uncontrollable grief

This is the story that has preoccupied at least two nations and elicited sympathy around the world. It is now 124 days old and has been told thousands of times in millions of words. Yet the story has only one fact: on the evening of May 3, a three-year-old child, Madeleine McCann, disappeared from the bedroom where she slept. We may think we know more than that, but we don’t, and no matter how often the story is repeated and the sole fact is spun, all we are reading is speculation. Or slurs and lies. There have been plenty of those, too, because when the media run out of facts and speculation, their more unscrupulous exponents resort to invention.

It’s not pretty. A story that was always tragic and has yet to have any kind of resolution, let alone a happy ending, is being treated with the abandon more normally meted out to soap opera characters or to those who elect to engage with the manufactured world of reality TV. The difference is that Madeleine is neither fictional nor a wannabe star, and neither are her parents, Gerry and Kate, who, you will note, don’t need a surname any more. We know them that well, or we think we do. Note, too, that referring to them as Gerry and Kate breaks the convention of referring to them as Kate and Gerry: when feeding the masses a tale of heartbreak the distraught mother is a more emotive presence than an anguished father.

There is no doubt that Madeleine’s disappearance – and what has happened since – raises important questions about how we can best protect our children from those who wish them harm, about the obligations of the media, and about our responses to the pain of people we don’t know. During the past three weeks I’ve examined these questions in Praia da Luz, the sunny whitewashed family idyll on the Algarve where I met the McCanns, and elsewhere.

As everyone is acutely aware, the reason we know so little about Madeleine’s disappearance is because she was abducted in Portugal, where the segredo de justiça law prevents the police from putting information about a criminal investigation in the public domain. Had Madeleine disappeared in Britain or the US, this would not have happened. Given that the Portuguese police admit that after four months they still have no idea where she is, or whether she is alive or dead, the first question has to be whether the lack of information is merely frustrating, and especially so for her parents, or whether it has impeded her safe recovery.


Neil Thompson has 30 years of police experience, latterly as a detective superintendent in charge of operations for the UK’s National Crime Squad. Now the director of security at red24, a private security company, he does not support the Portuguese tactic. “If a child is abducted for sexual exploitation or murder, no information is unhelpful,” he says bleakly. “In the UK you would release information to the media and the public that could help the situation, and keep back anything that might compromise the investigation, or frighten the perpetrator into harming the child. It’s a balancing act. Your priority is to get the victim back alive, arresting the perpetrator is lower down the scale. A no-information rule means that you’re working in the dark.

“The first two to three hours are vital. The first officer at the scene secures it and calls in detectives. A good officer has a nose for these things, and you have a process that tells you when a child has not wandered off. You set up road blocks, you check ports, you check intelligence – has anyone tried to snatch a child in the area? Can anyone describe a car? All that is fed into an incident room and analysed and the senior information officer decides what to release to the public. In the UK police can get a newsflash out straight away to TV and radio so you’ve got thousands of eyes and ears right at the beginning and you tell the public what you want them to look for. If you do that 24 or 48 hours later it loses impact.”

We don’t know exactly when Madeline was reported missing, and I am told that none of the published timelines relating to May 3 are accurate. I have also learned that the Portuguese response system is slow and unwieldy. The McCanns’ call to the police was received in Portimão, a 30-minute drive away, and the practice is for a local officer to attend the scene to assess whether a crime has been committed and whether to call for help. Police officers drove to apartment 5A at the Ocean Club where the McCanns were staying, then referred the case to the Policia Judiciaria in Portimão. Thus vital time was lost immediately after Madeleine’s disappearance – when it was imperative that the investigation should become active.

“You’re only as good as your expertise,” Thompson says. “If you’re in a country that hasn’t got a lot of serious crime and the training hasn’t gone into major investigations, you make mistakes and lose evidence.” Abductions are rare but not random, he adds. “Most child abductions are planned; it’s not a burglar who finds a child and takes it. Paedophiles go to places where there are children, such as Disney World. Whatever this abductor’s motive, he has been in the vicinity, he knows that there are children in this complex and that when people are on holiday they’re relaxed, and don’t think about risk. He will know the area and will have planned what he is going to do with the child. If he’s going to keep the child in a secure room, he will have been careful not to alert shopkeepers by buying food he wouldn’t normally buy. If a child is going to be sold for exploitation, in this case the unprecedented scale of the publicity has given the abductor a problem because he has an item that is readily identifiable all over the world and can’t be passed on.”

Those who specialise in tracing missing children acknowledge that publicity can unnerve a perpetrator, but insist that it is key and does save lives. “We know the public helps us to find missing children and it’s up to law enforcement officers on each case to make the call as to what they tell the public,” says Nancy McBride, the national safety director at the US National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, which has recovered 110,276 (just over 86 per cent) of the 127,737 children reported missing to it since 1984. “There’s always a risk, but it’s worth it. We never give up, we never close a case until we know what’s happened to a child.”

In seeking publicity, the McCanns had the clear objective of finding their daughter. What they did not envisage was that interest would spread, as Gerry puts it, like a forest fire, and that 150 journalists would suddenly descend on Praia da Luz, excited by the prospect of a story of a pretty child with attractive parents who are also middle class and intelligent – and far away from the stereotypical image of an inadequate single mother who might carelessly mislay a child and who certainly couldn’t afford to visit this aspirational resort. Add to that the parents’ status as doctors, people who save lives, yet who leave their children, Madeleine and her two-year-old twin siblings, without adult supervision in an apartment while they eat at a tapas bar a 52-second walk away, and the chattering classes are simultaneously full of sympathy and hooked.

When you first see apartment 5A you are struck by its exposed location. On the ground floor of a five-storey block, it is on a street corner and, like most of the Ocean Club apartments, not part of the gated section that houses the tapas bar and crèche. It would be easy to observe from different viewpoints, and perhaps to notice that this family had a regular pattern of behaviour in the evening, putting their children to bed, slipping across to the tapas bar and checking on them regularly.

But these are observations made with the benefit of bitter hindsight. Before Madeleine became a household name, no one thought like that on holiday, especially in an English-speaking resort so sedate that it doesn’t even have facilities for teenagers. In late April the weather is pleasant, the beach is a five-minute walk away and you’re there to relax and have fun. “It’s a quiet, safe resort,” says Gerry when we meet in a borrowed flat. “The distance from the apartment to the restaurant was 50 yards. We dined in the open-air bit and you can actually see the veranda of the apartment. It’s difficult because if you are [at home] cutting grass in the back with the mower, and that takes me about half an hour, and the children are upstairs in a bedroom, you’d never bat an eyelid. That’s similar to how we felt. We’ve been unfortunately proved wrong, out of the blue. It’s shattered everything.”

“Everyone I know who had been to Portugal with their children said it was very family friendly, and it did feel like that,” says Kate. “If I’d had to think for one second about it, it wouldn’t have happened. I never even had to think like that, to make the decision. It felt so safe that I didn’t even have to – I mean, I don’t think we took a risk. If I put the children in the car the chances of having an accident would be greater than somebody coming in, breaking into your apartment and lifting a child out of her bed. But you never think, I shouldn’t put the children in the car.”

This is the first time that the McCanns have confirmed that the apartment was broken into. This information does not compromise Madeleine’s safety, and rules out one of the numerous red herring theories that the police have explored, that Madeleine wandered away on her own. There is no logic in withholding it from the public.

“I have no doubt in my mind that she was taken by somebody from the room,” says Kate. “We don’t know if it was one person, two, or if it was a group of people, but I know she was taken.”

“There’s still hope because we don’t know who’s taken her, we don’t know where they’ve taken her and we certainly don’t know where she is,” says Gerry. “The first time I spoke to Ernie Allen, the chief executive of the National Centre for Missing and Exploited Children in the States, he said what I wanted to hear, and they’ve got enough experience of getting children back after long periods of time still to remain hopeful, and their own experience is that the younger the child, the less likelihood of serious harm. Don’t get me wrong, we’re not blinkered. The scenario that everyone thinks about is that a paedophile took her to abuse her and if that is the situation then statistically the chances are they would kill her. But we don’t know that and that’s the difficulty we’re dealing with. There are a range of scenarios and we want every single avenue explored because they’re all pretty rare. That doesn’t mean they should be represented in front page headlines as if all of them are likely, because they’re not.”

Does the Portuguese insistence that no information can be given about the investigation have any advantages? “For us, not having any information is very difficult,” Kate replies. “For us as parents it’s beneficial having information. We know that from our own jobs – the main complaint from patients’ families is lack of communication and not being informed. It’s detrimental.”

Of course the McCanns’ bid for information from the public, unsupported by details of the abduction, had already been hamstrung by the investigation’s slow start. There was also a language barrier. They now have phone access to a police officer who speaks English, but contact is variable, they say. You sense that they are often in situations where they would like to be forthright, but are obliged to keep their thoughts to themselves. “It is frustrating,” says Kate. “The whole situation makes you angry, that’s part of the whole grief that something like this has happened to Madeleine and to us. They’re all normal emotions and sometimes you do just want to explode.”

The McCanns sit on a sofa, Kate bone-thin – although I am told that she is very fit – extremely shy and modest, Gerry composed and easier to read. At the beginning of our interview Kate holds Madeleine’s pink toy cat in one hand and clutches her husband’s with the other. Kate’s face looks so tense and agonised that you might think that she was about to be tortured, and she seems to shrink into herself.

But as the hour passes she relaxes, takes her hand out of her husband’s and even laughs at some of the absurdities of their situation, recalling a day on the beach when she was on the phone to a friend and suddenly found herself being covered in kisses by a group of Portuguese matrons. Were this couple not wrapped up in this extraordinary event they would be unremarkable, the husband an assured man who likes to be in control, the wife a family-orientated mother who enjoys her job and still has friends from when she was 4.

Both are from working-class backgrounds: Gerry is the youngest of five children of an Irish matriarch and her joiner husband who brought up their family in Dumbarton, near Glasgow; Kate the only child of a Liverpool joiner and a civil servant. They met as junior doctors in Glasgow 12 years ago, got together as they travelled in New Zealand and she trained as an anaesthetist before retraining as a GP because, as two hospital doctors, they rarely saw each other.

In the immediate aftermath of Madeleine’s disappearance the McCanns found solace in their Catholic faith and were grateful for the warmth and care that greeted them at the Nossa Senhora da Luz church, a tiny, beautiful and peaceful sanctuary that forms a focal point for the community. “I felt cosseted,” Gerry says. “We felt so fragile and vulnerable. People kept saying ‘you’ll get her back’. It was what we needed to hear because we just had the blackest and darkest thoughts in the first 24, 36 hours, as if Madeleine had died. It was almost uncontrollable grief.

“The psychologist who came out to help us [Alan Pike from the Centre for Crisis Psychology in Skipton] was very good at turning our thought processes away from speculation. OK, there’s probabilities, but you don’t know that and he was very good at challenging the negatives. He was very much, ‘You will feel better after each thing that you take control of, even simple things’. We were surrounded by the Ambassador, the consul, PR crisis management, police, and he was saying ‘The decisions are yours’.”

“All these people we were meeting had to be there, and I felt so out of control and I found it quite scary,” says Kate. “I felt as if I’d been pushed into another world. Alan was saying, ‘There are little things you can take control of’.”

“For example,” says Gerry, “if you are asked ‘Do you want a cup of tea?,’ instead of saying ‘Mmm’, make a positive decision. Decide what you want. That combination of the Church, the community and the psychology helped very quickly. We agreed to interact because we thought it would probably help the search and it would be easier than hiding. Stay in the dark and you’re an enigma. There wasn’t anything to hide and in the first few weeks we were shown a lot of respect.”

The launch of the Find Madeleine campaign brought them more respect for their organisational skills. Friends and family rallied, a strategy was worked out, the media were fed pictures and quotes, and big businesses, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, David Beckham and numerous unknown individuals responded with support and donations. This money – the fund now stands at more than £1 million – enabled them to appoint a campaign manager and to publicise Madeleine’s disappearance by visiting other countries. With the possible exception of their blessing by the Pope at the Vatican, which was the brainwave of a tabloid newspaper and seemed to contradict the McCanns’ status as ordinary people, they were beyond reproach as campaigners, particularly as they began to engage with agencies that have expertise in recovering missing children. The story rolled along nicely, filling more front pages than any other event since the death of Diana, Princess of Wales, though not because the McCanns were managing the media, but because there was increasing evidence that Madeleine sells papers.

Then things started to go wrong. By the end of the second week of August, when the McCanns marked the 100th day since Madeleine’s disappearance by launching a YouTube initiative to help to find missing children, the Portuguese media had suggested that the McCanns could have killed their daughter, and the British press was not shy about repeating and even revelling in the “monstrous slurs”. Coincidentally that was the week I first visited Praia da Luz: there were nine television satellite trucks, each with a noisy generator, on the road outside apartment 5A, and the Portuguese crews were threatening to move outside the McCanns’ rented villa and had to be pacified with an interview. The Ocean Club asked the McCanns to stop bringing the twins to the kids’ club because other guests had complained about the media presence, and a couple of chain-smoking security men appeared outside reception. Praia da Luz, once a sardine-fishing community, now a manufactured resort with a reputation for guaranteeing uneventful and sunny family holidays, was becoming ugly.

The solicitor of Robert Murat, the only person to have been named by police as a suspect in the Madeleine investigation, didn’t help matters when he announced that business in Praia da Luz was suffering and that people there wanted “those bloody McCanns to go home”. However strong a news line this was, it wasn’t entirely true. Some shopkeepers continued to display posters appealing for information about Madeleine, others spoke tactfully about their sympathy for the McCanns. “It’s not that we want the McCanns to go home, it’s just that we want the bad feeling to go away,” said one café owner, who declined to be named. “Last year you had to book three weeks ahead to get in here in the evening, now you don’t need to book. Praia da Luz has become the place where you lose your children. It’s terribly sad, and it’s terrible for the McCanns.”

Something else was happening, too, that wasn’t entirely edifying. At the church a steady stream of Portuguese worshippers and tourists approached the shrine to Madeleine to the left of the altar, and many were devout and respectful. Others nipped in to take a quick picture of the shrine and left without a bow of the head; after all, it’s not every year that you go on holiday and find yourself in the presence of a moment so big that it is being recorded by television cameras.

Outside Robert Murat’s home, which could not be seen from the road because of a deep and dense hedge, a Portuguese tourist checked with me that she had the right house, then stuffed herself into the hedge to get a proper look. (She was obviously not the first to do so, as sections of the hedge are now dying.) A hundred yards away sight-seers posed for photographs alongside the television crews positioned with 5A in the background.

On a seat overlooking the beach, Martin Payne, a well-meaning hairdresser from Stratford-upon-Avon, displayed an intriguing mixture of sympathy and fascination. He had just spotted Gerry in his Renault Scenic (which was more than I had at this stage; the McCanns are impossible to get near unless their campaign manager vets and approves you) and was happy to volunteer every known fact about the McCanns, and to speculate, in detail, on what might have happened to Madeleine.

“You’ve been reading too many books, Martin,” said his wife. “I feel the same way that I felt when Princes Diana was killed,” Martin said. “Such a loss to a lovely family. We want to have a conclusion to this.”

When I suggest to the McCanns that some of the interest in them borders on the prurient, they seem to be unaware of it. At church they register the crowd outside as kindly support, and don’t notice those on the fringes who are there just to spot them. In other contexts their unsought fame appals them. “We feel totally exposed, as though we have been stripped bare,” says Kate.

They tend not to pick up the more sickly nuances within the press, because they don’t read it; instead the campaign team (which consists of the full-time lobbyist the McCanns hired after the fund was set up, plus two other part-timers who ensure seven-day-a-week cover to field the innumerable media inquiries) shows them what they need to see, including translations of Portuguese coverage. And as they demonstrated last week with the announcement that they are to take legal action against the Portuguese newspaper Tal e Qual, for its allegation that they killed Madeleine with an overdose of sedatives, they will no longer tolerate lurid claims that defame them.

“We had no illusions that we could control the media,” says Gerry. “The way that information has got out has been handled incredibly badly, without a doubt. It’s almost as though some people are thinking out loud. It’s all very well to have a potential scenario but that shouldn’t necessarily be written up as if there is evidence to support it. I think this has been handled very irresponsibly by a number of people. We don’t believe there is any evidence to support any of the deluded headlines, and the police have made that clear.”

“There are times when you just want to shout out ‘That’s wrong’, because I think we’ve been done injustice in a lot of ways,” says Kate.

“There’s a blacker picture painted than what is true,” says Gerry, “whether it is how much we were drinking, which was a gross exaggeration, or how often we were checking. We know what we did and we are very responsible. It’s bad enough for us to have to deal with the fact that someone saw an opportunity – to then have elements sneering at your behaviour and making it look much worse than it was. It’s difficult because a lot of untruths, half truths and blatant lies have been published. It was published that we had 14 bottles of wine.”

“In an hour between us,” interjects Kate. “I’d have been impressed with that in my student days. Not only that, they qualify it by saying eight bottles of red and six of white, as though it gives it more credibility. You just want to scream.”

Where do the Portuguese media get their information? Brendan de Beer, the editor of the English language Portugal News, is the only journalist to have spoken at length to Chief Inspector Olegário Sousa, the spokesman for the PolÍcia Judiciária on the Madeleine investigation. Sousa, who has 20 years’ service and has previously focused on crimes relating to works of art, armed robberies and car-jacking, suggested that some information is being inadvertently leaked by officers at informal lunches with friends. De Beer is more specific and suggests that some of the more incongruous claims are no more than gossip.

Some of the police detectives involved in the case have spoken off the record, he says, and journalists have contacts within the police just as they do in Britain. “I’ve spoken to a couple of them [police officers], but never to an extent where they told me a syringe had been found in the room or there was blood on the keys of the hire car. That kind of information seems to come from police constables. You get someone who tells something to their wife, they tell their hairdresser, who tells a journalist.

“I think that there’s a lot of invention. A journalist might say to a detective, ‘Do you think Madeleine fell and died and Kate and Gerry got rid of the body?’ Off the record the detective might say ‘It’s possible’, and they write a story based on ‘sources close to the investigation.’ I’d be very surprised if there was any bribery, though a constable does earn only about €600 or €700 a month, so it could happen. The suggestion that the police were closing in on the McCanns . . . I’ve been disappointed by some of the reporting.”

Not that British reporting has been irreproachable. The slurs have been widely dissected, a suspect has been invented by one needy tabloid, and when I rang Paolo Marcilemo, the editor of the Correio da Manhã, which has a reputation for scurrilous reporting, he said that he was no longer giving interviews because the British press has misquoted him.

For the McCanns there is no respite, though they are slowly becoming accustomed to their grief. “They’re not gone, the feelings,” Gerry says. “When we enjoyed ourselves with the kids we had guilt – how could we enjoy ourselves when Madeleine was missing? But it’s so important for the kids that it’s unbridled love and attention for them. I’m definitely much better at doing that now, almost carefree for a lot of the time. Not 100 per cent.”

They will return to their home in Rothley, in the East Midlands, they confirm, and the timing will depend on the police investigation, which is currently in a state of hiatus as the PolÍcia Judiciária waits for the results of British tests on samples taken from the apartment.

Gerry has been home twice, he says, and has been inside the house. “I was pretty anxious about it, but it’s now a comfort. We’ll go back when we’ve done as much as we possibly can for Madeleine. We’re at a point where staying here is not necessarily adding anything to the campaign to find her.”

He has also discussed returning to work with his line manager; he elected to take unpaid leave rather than compassionate leave shortly after Madeleine’s disappearance. As a cardiologist who deals with very sick patients he doesn’t want to return immediately to a full-time schedule of patient care, but plans to focus initially on MRI scans, administration and academic work. “When you’re seeing 12 or 15 patients a day you have to be focused on them and can’t be thinking about what you want to do for missing children in Europe. When I’m occupied and applied it helps, and work eventually will take some of that focus. The fund enables us to make decisions for us and for Madeleine, and not for financial necessity. It’s not paying for any of our accommodation here, but it has covered a lot of expenses for us, and trips, and it helps to provide support for people to come out to help us, flights and things.”

As a part-time GP, Kate’s job is patient-centred, and she has yet to decide whether she will return to it. What they are certain of is that they will continue to campaign for systems to be established to help to recover missing children. Portugal, like Spain and many other European countries, does not have a sex offenders’ register, and as for the UK, although a Child Rescue alert system was launched here last year, relying primarily on speedy contact with the media, it has yet to be tested. Neither does Britain have any reliable statistics on missing children, and this means that the scale of the problem is unknown.

Fortunately, the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children has a system that works, and can be copied. It is based in Virginia, employs 300 people and its success relies on instant media alerts and distribution of fliers, and a high level of training for the professionals involved. Its agenda has always been to make its methods operate globally, and now it has Gerry and Kate McCann on its side. Their determination to be involved in this task is the first sign that something positive, tangible and enduring could come from what has so far been the bewildering and tragic story of Madeleine McCann.

http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/families/article2379833.ece

324 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 324 of 324
assassin said...

Teyman,
k/ate and gerry are doctors not Gods.

Do you think that doctors are totally clued up on all or have to be - they are not.

Let me tell you that middle class doctors and even professionals of other child care things are often those most in need of more education on such subjects cos some have lived in a very sheltered world.

One gentleman i helped for many years was not only a consultant paediatrician, he did plenty with social services and also sat on an adoption panel. What was he being helped with? His own family regards abuse!

Equally he learnt lots more re the realms he was having to work within during discussions.

I hope that helps you some! :-)

elaine said...

Doby .. one of your theories is probably close to the truth .. or Madeleine could have been taken as close as one of the nearby apartments ... they were never checked, no house to house search was ever done .. according to our resident expert on all things Portuguese Alsalbella, the boats leaving the harbour were checked, who was there etc. to be honest my faith in the Portuguese checking leaves a lot to be desired

Mandz said...

Apologies! My last bit in my post: they do these things because they think the bad things won’t happen!

On that note good night all!

elaine said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
elaine said...

sorry re my last post I should have said P.J. I have heard than many residents helped search for Madeleine the night she disappeared - no aspersions meant for the Portuguese people here

assassin said...

nite mandz. I got to go too, so night all.

P.s Re the boat theory. Boats are often used by paedophiles. They carry out their shit and filming etc on board.

Anonymous said...

elaine we all make mistakes I agree obviously. Some people make terrible mistakes. But surely this was(sorry about the pun)the Mother(and father)of all mistakes. Leaving three children under four years of age to their own devices. Unbelievable - and doctors too. They've got away with serious neglect so far. I think I'll go now before I say something I'll regret. I'm getting angrier by the minute thinking that Madeleine wasn't even worth a fine for neglect. It sickens me Goodnight. No justice in this world Perhaps in the next eh. If that's alright with everybody else.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Elaine, you and I are so similar in our thinking. At least we'll have each other when they come to take us away, lol. I have said time and time again, only they truly knew how safe they felt.

Anonymous said...

Goodevening Dat23,

Are you still hovering, or have you really got better things to do?

Anonymous said...

Mcjustice

Rosiepops/Assasin

Sorry I got called away earlier and could not respond to your posts.

I have some ideas, but need to contact several people first for approval. I think it best I do not speak on a open site at this stage but will get back to you shortly.

Unfortunately, I cannot stay now to discuss anything further as my flight is being called and I need to board now. Regards.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Nite Mandz & Assasin, Take care x

Doppelganger said...

Assasin,

You said what you said and I suspect that given the opportunity to type that post again you would word it totally differently.

I am NOT an expert on paedophiles, but as I said, I would imagine that the main criteria would be availability.

Anyway, I have returned because I found a link to the Daily Mirror story about the letters. Apparently the Portuguese have been waiting months for a reply to their request - so that explains the delays.

If anyone is interested this is the link.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2008/02/29/kate-and-gerry-mccann-set-for-second-police-quiz-over-madeleine-s-disappearance-89520-20335215/

Unless the Daily Mirror are printing lies, three people will be interviewed by police in the next 10 days.

Watching Al Murray now.

So I'll leave you all in peace.

Anonymous said...

degoogled doby

Yep boat

and Malinka had boat there which left harbour on 4 May early hours. They do keep a log. How corrupt that is I cannot say, but a log is kept. that is how they know the boat left. Have you see a report by Michael Shrimp[ton on this allegedly? very very long detialed one?? Each time it appeared on the net it was taken down, so far Ihave seen it 3 times over the last 9 months.....

Like the moon, will come out soon again. Interesting reading, which will compound and confirm your stance which you have always had.....

keep the day job and leave the jokes eh???

oh been out am a taxi tonight so popping all over and multi tasking and how....not ignoring just very, very busy indeed.

I agree with what you are thinking.

assassin said...

nite tinks.

Mcjustice

Happy to hear any ideas you have.


Here is an email address incase you need one.

s@shadowharmony.com

Regards

Anonymous said...

Ten oclock and 'alls well' or is it? If I don't get on I'll be in dire trouble! In any case I need my beauty sleep, so goodnight ladies, and gentlemen if there are any around,see you all on the morrow!

Anonymous said...

assasin

Actually I have to say I did not like reading your A1 paedo profile, but I have recognised that - but did not want to say it. You did.

So in support I have to agree. Not a nice thing to agree with, but it is the proven standardised case.

assassin said...

Hi doppelganger,
Just before i go. Respect, but i wouldnt change a single word at all.

I said she was "A1 paedophile perfect" i think?

I meant what i said. It is a sad but true fact.

Regards

Anonymous said...

nite mandz. see you soon.

assassin said...

A p.s to Jane.

No Jane, i know people do not like to read harsh realities about the minds or ways of paedophiles.

However, they are important and relevant to this case and what may have become of Madeleine and where she might be.

Equally, a desire to avoid the realities of this subject is why some people are hellbent on blaming kate and gerry or suggesting she is with some loving childless couple etc etc. They cannot handle realities re sex offenders so conform the world and facts to suit what they can handle.

So, it is a doubly relevant issue im afraid.

Nite Jane, talk again

elaine said...

Hiya Tinks ... yes easy to judge when people were not there ... remember somebody (a reporter) was surprised how close the bar was ... if the McCanns said it felt like being in their garden well I guess it did ... nobody thinks bad things will happen to them ... and they were so badly mistaken ... however if anyone of us has not had a moment where they have taken their eyes of their child and had them disappear ... shops, park .... I do not believe them ... and does that count as neglect. A child disappearing can happen to anyone

Anonymous said...

so dganger dad23

You have now posted what you lambasted me for saying earlier today. ''Within 10 days PJ are coming to interview 3 or more of the tapas 9.'' I quoted, adding if it happens.......

oh dear...as THE YOU SAID

you said i was 'off line' for saying what you have only now some 24 hrs later discovered and posted.

i WILL GIVE YOU A COPY OF MY AND YOUR POSTS IF YOU WISH CLARAFICATION....NO NOT MISSPELLING A JOKE HA HA HA CLARA. @ FICATION

I KNOW IT IS CLARIFICATION JUST IN CASE I AM NOW DYSLEXIC AS WELL AS EBOLLOXED, A DRUNK, INSANE, NO LIFE AND AN 'IT'........

All that can be said is those that said that and more of me on this and other blogs is, they are far, far, far, far, far worse.

You need to dig deep to find them.

Do you get internet broadband in the deep dirty muddy underground?

Tinkerbell43 said...

Jane, you mentioning boats reminded me, I read that M3 were trying to trace 3 particular boats. It made Alroy's day when I told him, lol.

Rosiepops said...

Hi people

I am back again! (in case anyone noticed I had gone lol)

Anonymous said...

nite assasin catch you again

A L R O Y?? is in the building so to speak???

Wow. I know he went on about boats too...... is he coming on here too? give him my regards.

elaine said...

Tinks .. Alroy is posting? Under what name ... he hasn't been on as Alroy for a long time has he? Yes he did think it was a boat ... and given that it was the brilliant P.J. who supposedly checked the comings and goings of them, I am not filled with confidence

Rosiepops said...

Quite honestly I am fed up with the Portuguese always finding someone else to blame for their own incompetence.
I don't believe the daily Mirror it is all from sources and they never turn out to be true.

I hope it is true, I really do but I am not holding my breath.

How many times have the papers printed that Murat was to lose his arguido status? It has never happened has it?

What happened to him being questioned last week? What happened about Michaela Walczuch being questioned was she? If not she should be.

Fed up of the whole shambolic way this case has been handled from the very start, if I was a cynic I would think the PJ have done this on purpose.

Anonymous said...

ha ha ha elaine who is filled with confidence wit anything the PJ do? They can't even deliver a letter......

Anonymous said...

CHINADOLL HAVE YOU FALLEN ASLEEP OR GONE????

NOT LIKE YOU???

come back please.

assassin said...

I noticed rosiepops. I couldnt 'stay away' worrying incase you'd fallen of you chair.

Now i know you are alive i shall go and do some work lol

Nite!

Rosiepops said...

You got that right Jane they cant deliver a letter and then they blame everyone else for their failures!

assassin said...

"ha ha ha elaine who is filled with confidence wit anything the PJ do? They can't even deliver a letter......"

thats why they didn't want the cadaver dogs - waiting on postman pat and the black and white cat;-)

Rosiepops said...

Asssasin

If the PJ sneezed no doubt they would blame the British for giving them a cold.

See you later (if you come back tonight - I hope so)

Tinkerbell43 said...

Elaine, this is an article I found in the Telegraph, 05.05.07 by Melinda Libby, Telegraph Travel Writer:-

I stayed at the MW resort at PDL last August with my two children 11& 9.

MW's typical customers are professional, middle Britain families who enjoy water sports and tennis and want to take advantage of the award-winning child care managed by a team of dedicated nannies.

Since PDL is a real village it has its own residents aswell as easy access for those who wish to visit and enjoy the activities it has to offer.

Madeleine McCs parents were dining at the Tapas Bar which was within sight of their apartment.

Last summer, children of Madeleines age were going to bed before their parents had turned in for the night. I noticed a number of mother/father relays going to check on young children at half hourly intervals just as the McCs did.

Mark Warners self contained village made me feel claustrophobic but the one great advantage was that you felt your family was as safe as it ever could be on holiday.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Sorry Guys, I know how much we all miss Alroy, but I was referring to when I told him on the DE.

Anonymous said...

I was about to post ha ha 'post' that at end of my post

the song

postman pat, postman pat
postman pat and his black and white cat
early in the morning
just as....aaaarrrggghh

as seawitch 'wheezesnitch' would say

flick off.....
that is not rude, It is in the dictionary to flick......

but I decided not to sing again. I have a fund paying in for me not to sing. Rosiepops told me off for singing in instead of signing in. Doby is degoogled, I am just antigoogled.......

GERROFF YOU HAVE SAID GOOD NITE.

There is a new fund, for doby degoogled NOT TO TELL JOKES....

Anonymous said...

rosiepops like it

are you spitting at assasin or was it a keyboard malfunction? I have a PhD in keyboard malfunctions I promise. with honours.


Must remember that when I next disagree with her. So far not, a record. Not like the old DX days at all.

nite asssssassssssin


have a nice resssssstttt

Anonymous said...

tinks are you there?

where are M3 looking for the boats?

the Airport in Faro or Inland Farms in Morocco??

sat nav

Rosiepops said...

Tinks

No doubt the antis would tear her to shreds and accuse her of being part of the ever growing McCann conspiracy to pervert the course of justice?

I have a feeling that many parents would come forward and admit they did this if they thought they would not get slaughtered and called bad parents, by the hypocrites who have never put a foot wrong in their parenting lives!

Anonymous said...

TINKS

I read that article about PdL too.

Rosiepops

Even when parents in the house children can be taken. Remember the child in her bath? Beggars belief. No matter what, one second is all it needs.....

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Rosiepops said...

Yes and apparently according to some, because these abductions are rare this could not have happened to Madeleine.

I don't understand their logic though! In fact logic is one thing I would nit accuse most of the antis of having.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tinkerbell43 said...

This is not a subject I feel particularly comfortable bringing up, but one of the theories is, Madeleine was taken by child traffickers, I'm sorry to ask but are their motives different to Paedo's or are they much of a muchness.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

anon

asked what

about what

have you anything to say or are you dumb???

Anonymous said...

Janegt,

No, I did not fall asleep, just trying to get organised for the morning.

Don't think I have much else to contribute, have said what I wanted to.

Anonymous said...

CHINADOLL

I look forward to catching you next time you are on.

good night.

;o)

assassin said...

One post and gone again. I cant help but keep checking see if there is anything crops up.

Child traffickers. Some of them are never involved in the actual abuse of the child, they just do the transporting and or abductions.

Many variations on that of course, but that is the quick reply cos im working;-)

assassin said...

rosiepops, is there any way you would feel comfortable to contact me? Email, anything?

I dont want to just ask for a contact addie for you.

i put an addie up earlier, if its okay with you, drop me a mail cos i have something i want to say:-)

Rosiepops said...

Elaine and tinks

I remember Alroy writing about the boat, he was absolutely convinced that this was the case, he may be right because all he said made such a lot of sense and all i have is a gut instinct that Madeleine is still in Portugal, maybe not in PDL but still in Portugal, maybe she was taken by boat to another part of Portugal? Probably better than road, less chance of detection? they were not to know that the PJ would not bother to alert her borders for 12 hours!

I wonder if Alroy will make his way here? I hope so.

Rosiepops said...

Assasin I will have a look now and contact you.

Anonymous said...

just on prtugal news paper
www.the-news.net/
portugal
I QUOTE: 29.02.2008

''OVER 600 ABUSE VICTIMS UNDER 14 IN 2007 IN PORTUGAL.''

ALSO REPORT ON TAXI DRIVER ON TRANSPORTING MADELEINE MCCANN

I urge you to visit this paper and read it all for yourselves.

Rosiepops said...

I have it Assasin

assassin said...

Thanks Rosie!

Tinkerbell43 said...

Thanks Rosie & Assasin. My train of thought being a trafficker may well of not passed her on yet due to the high publicity and she may well still be alive but being kept underground so to speak. A bit far fetched perhaps but I was just exploring some of the theories I have read.

Rosiepops said...

Tinks

I don't think it is far fetched, when I read today's article that jojam had submitted, a certain part of it made me shudder. So no I do not think it is far fetched at all.

assassin said...

Not the way of a trafficker tinks - unfortunately. Nice as it would be to think she could be alive and held for later date so retrievable from a trafficker.

I'm sure those with a brain will see the context i used the word 'nice' in there too! :-)

The new witness is a hedge bets apparition/reality aint he. think on;-)

R - before i hit send - second last letter in id - c?

Checking cos i know anyone other than you could have sent a mail when i said that;-)

Rosiepops said...

Assasin c as in bird.

assassin said...

sent. Thanks again Rosiepops

Tinkerbell43 said...

I'm off now all, cant keep eyes open any longer. Good chatting with you, see you tomorrow, nite xx

If anyone is interested there is a programme on ITV, something to do with a famous case in Belgium of children being abducted, Mark De truit ? just started.

assassin said...

markde truit is a good example. Id advise anyone in here who feels more info could help - to watch;-)

Rosiepops said...

Night Tinks,
sleep well take care xxx

Rosiepops said...

Assasin thanks received and I have replied.

I must say this programme on now, you are correct it is a good example!

assassin said...

Hi Rosie,
Haven't watched the programme. If i had the time i would have to see what angle and slant the commentary was given cos im very aware of the case and its history, unforutnately, i was way busy and didnt have time.

the best thing for people in here to look at would be several things....

the nature of evil itself, which will be an eye opener i suspect to many as to what htey believe in to protect them

amish religion would be a good example too. will give a good take on how a culture behaves in a religious closed society and how they are seen and purveyed by outer world - extend it some in though and add RC mindset, you have portugal. Will help you undertsand the avoidance of truth


and i shall come back with more another time, but its all really about a lack of mental good health and jacobs ladder...

God Bless little Madeleine.

The most any of us can do always is pray. X

calcite51 said...

I'm here, I'm in and everyone is probably gone.

I was interested in McJustice posts - if he/she is serious I would do anything I could to help.

calcite51 said...

Sassyp - sorry, I never responded - thanks for the offer - don't know why somethings google refuses to accept my password - it did tonite - so maybe the problem has been resolved.

calcite51 said...

The reason I didn't respond was because, I owe, I owe, so off to work I went.

calcite51 said...

DianeH - you should paste the link on the "OTHER" blog - get them going.

dianeh said...

Hi Calcite, seems you missed them all again.

I have been out all day and have just got back and the UK is in bed again.

Are you talking about the dog link, or the harpy one.

I am particularly proud of the harpy one and did think about posting it on the other site.

Cheers

Anonymous said...

rosipops
I posted for the first time yesterday although i have always read the comments on the DE and all of the blogs running at the minute. I actually beleive this site to be the most informative and probably in my view more accurate than the other blogs. Because it was my first time on i went anon dont know why really, just havent had confidence to post before and thought i would give it a try. Anyway, i only asked a few questions and got some really useful answers then a post from chinadoll came on and told me i was sad and to get a life etc and said something about the nation i come from which happens to be the uk. Its not very welcoming for a new poster, after all, just because i havent posted before doesnt make her opinion as a regular poster any more valid than mine. All i am saying is to give us newbies a chance and dont shoot us down as ememies and i am sure you will have a lot more posters on your site. Thankyou.

Mum21 said...

Hi Anonymous. I am sorry this happened but I am also sure Chinadol did not do it on purpose.
Where the trouble starts is we have many different people posting on here under the name Anonymous...which can be very confusing. Some of those anonymous posting are vile attacks on us and our opinions. So at times we get a bit confused to what anonymous we are actually replying to.
Why not try posting using the Name/URL displayed...making up a name for yourself to use. That way we know who we are responding to....and it will also give us the chance to welcome you.
Hope to hear back from you.

Anonymous said...

hi mum21
Thanks for your reply, i have noticed some confusions when people post as anon,however chinadoll actually referred to my questions so i know her reply was to me. Anyway i will start to post with a name now, although i think i will mainly continue to read the posts and just comment occasionally thankyou

dianeh said...

Allison

Please post, dont just sit on the side lines.
I know that Chinadoll was a bit harsh yesterday but it really is more about how many anons there are, rather than you personally.

I have found the posters on here to be very encouraging supporting, and we dont always agree on everything.

Anonymous said...

Morning All,

Just dropped in to say hello to Alison. Nice to see a new face. Enjoyed reading your posts yesterday:-)

Need to do some of that stuff called housework now, but back later.

Take care all

dianeh said...

Hi Mum21 and Assassin.

Who is Simply Ludicrous that dropped in last night? Any ideas, I cant tell one of those anti's from another, although it did have the smell of the neglect obsessors about it.

Imagine getting upset when I typed the name says it all. Really, what does one expect if using an id like that. It was picked purely to cause offence imo.

Anonymous said...

assassin, dianeh,
Thanks for the welcome, look forward to chatting to you. My housework is calling for me too so i will come back later, see you then, alison

Rosiepops said...

Morning all,

Thought we would leave yesterday's story up as there are many points to talk about it and it is such a good indicator of "Kate and Gerry's" position, by far one of the best that I have read and I missed this one! If anyone hasn't yet read it, I can recommend it as excellent and well worth the time it takes to read. Thanks Jojam for submitting it.

Rosiepops said...

Anon 10.24

Sorry you feel like this. I think a lot of these misunderstandings happen because one anonymous poster gets linked to another and we do not know who is posting, or who is just trying to stir up trouble. All the Anons are hard to tell apart and we have had an awful lot of abuse from some of them, with deeply unpleasant language. You can still be Anonymous, even if you use the Name/URL tag, just type in any old name you would like to be known by and leave the URL field empty, this will help distinguish you from other, not so polite Anon posters.
Chinadoll is fine, she says what she means, she does not mess about, I doubt very much that she meant to be rude, she just says it as she sees it and I cant knock that as she has helped me out in the past with her straight talking, and if it makes you feel any better if she had something to say to me, she would say it, no holds barred, so please do not take it personally.

I am glad you have read our little blog and thank you so much for the kind words, it is a young blog so we are still finding our feet and perhaps we are a tad protective of one another too, this stems from taking months of abuse on the DX forum.
You are very welcome to take part here no matter what your views are and I really hope you do and feel that you can stay and do just that and I really look forward to reading your comments.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hi Alison,

Welcome, thanks for your feedback, its nice to know people are looking in and find our blog to be informative.

Look forward to you joining in.

Rosiepops said...

Hi Tinks

hi Diane and Calcite If you are still around, where have you gone?

The simply ludicrous poster, I would say is probably Buddha just popping in to try and incite trouble. Nothing much to say, probably here to try and start a collection for her lawyer friend.

dianeh said...

Good morning Rosie

I was just reading last nights posts.

Im glad that Teyman and Dopelganger etc are posting on here. But as with most of the anti's, they say the same things over and over. And always bring up the neglect issue, as if because the kids were left alone, the McCannds deserved to have their children taken.

Have you ever heard about the Beaumont children that went missing from Glenelg beach in Adelaide in 1966. They were at the beach for the day, went by themselves on the bus - Eldest was 9 and the other two were 7 and 4. Apparently it was common for kids to go to the beach all day by themselves at a young age. All three disappeared after being seen at the beach and have never been heard from again. Their parents lost all three children that day and never had anymore. The parents never talk in public about the children anymore. The grief was too much for them and each time they had to talk about it over the years brought back the unbearable grief.

Here is the website.

http://www.beaumontchildren.com/

This cant be allowed to happen to Madeleine or her family.

She must be found.

I know to us it seems beyond belief that they were at the beach by themselves but Mum (that is my own mum) says that even when they were taken, no one blamed the parents. That was the day that Australia grew up. The day we knew that there was true evil in the world.

Sorry to wander off the topic but I thought you might find it interesting.

I cant remember it, I am too young (I was only two at the time) but all Australians know the story.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Morning Rosie,

According to the Telegraph, The Home Office have confirmed receiving a letter for legal assistance. Lets hope things now get moving.

I know its water under the bridge now, but why was these letters necessary in the first place. The friends returned to PDL last July on request from the PJ, I never heard of any letters being necessary then.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Morning Dianeh,

Sorry I didnt realise you were still here. I must say every morning when I get into work, I do enjoy reading both your and Calcites posts.

dianeh said...

Good morning Tinkerbell.

Whenever I am on the blog, reading, I constantly get,

"there's my special tinkiebell" from my daughter, who hovers over me trying to get me off the computer.

She thinks I bring this up for her to see. And she was 3 in october and uses the computer like an old pro.

dianeh said...

Thats why I have Dorothy the Dinosaus as my picture. Its her favourite.

dianeh said...

I personally will be surprised if anything comes from this questioning.

I tend to believe those reports that came out recently that said they would be requestioned and if no glaring inconsistencies, the case would be archived. I know that was also just leaks but it does make a bit of sense.

But it needs to happen, should have happened months ago. I wonder if the reason that the three to be questions didnt go back to Portugal is purely because of the McCanns being made arguidos. All the friends were co-operating up to that point, as evidence by going back to Portugal to be interviewed.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Dianeh, Ah bless, how sweet is she, I feel flattered.

I always wondered what was behind your Avatar, now I know it will make me smile more.

Tell her Tinkiebell sends her a very special hello xxx

dianeh said...

I am going to have to go to bed, as I cant even get control of my keyboard (its 10:50 at night).

So good night to you all.

Hopefully will catch up with in the morning, your night.

Cheers

Tinkerbell43 said...

Dianeh,

I agree with you, I think too it is just to clear up these inconsistencies and then it will unfortunately be shelved.

I also think they have to be seen to come if only to save face.

I dont know if you are aware, but JT has always said she would go back if asked. She said it on the Panorama programme and again more recently.

Rosiepops said...

Hi Diane

I will for sure look at that link.

I don't actually think it is off topic as it actually addresses this so-called neglect issue.

At nine years old I was sent up the road to the post office and to collect a few groceries for my mum, i had to cross a very busy road in London called the Finchley Road and I was knocked down by a double decker Green Line bus and I nearly lost my life 'and' my leg and I still bear the scars today. My mother wasn't criticized for being a bad parent, she wasn't, she was at home caring for my younger brother.
People have to get things into perspective, we all of us who are honest will admit to doing things that we know in hindsight were a mistake, only for the vast majority of us we do not have to pay such a terrible price that Madeleine and her parents have paid.
Judge and thou shall be judged? Who knows how the minds of such unforgiving, unyielding people think?
I can understand that these parents got lulled into a false sense of security in a quiet little place, where there was not much crime, who on earth would think that someone would come and abduct a child from her bed? It is only since Madeleine has been abducted that we have learned of the events that were not quite right and what I would like to know is this, much has been made about the low crime rate there in Praia da Luz, then why when the police had been notified on several occasions previously to events that people reported that they thought wrong, was noting done about them? Mrs Fenn who owns the apartment above 5a had herself found an intruder actually inside her flat and her daughter had also reported seeing strangers lurking about outside 5a, why wasn't this investigated properly?

Why weren't all these reports investigated properly in a place were crime was low? Surely this should have started alarm bells ringing? And the biggest question of all why weren't the McCann's and other people renting this particular apartment alerted to the fact that there may be a problem there? If they had perhaps Kate and Gerry would never have left the children as they would not have thought it safe.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Night Dianeh, it was nice to have a little time to chat seeing as we never usually get the opportunity.

dianeh said...

Tink

I will, she will love it. But be warned, I probably will have to send you a message back.

And here is another little cutie story. I work from home (for an IT company), so during the day if I am on the computer I am working and she knows that I get paid and that is how our money gets in the bank. So she thinks when she is on it she is working (and always tells everyone she works on the computer). This morning I said to her, hurry up and get off the computer, you have to get dressed to go out. She said

" But Mum I cant get off, Im being paid for this"

I promise, no more little kids stories. But it is late, Im tired and need to write something light to lift my mood.

Anonymous said...

I'm laughing here cos all my little ones do the exact same thing. Sit on thier puters whilst im working and claim they are doing the same thing - doing 'their work'! They send little messages to people too,lol!

Nite Diane

Tinkerbell43 said...

I agree with you Rosie, even a year before people were reporting unsavoury charactors being seen.

It seems everything had been hushed up, brushed under the carpet. It appears a ticking time bomb had been waiting to go off and by christ has it gone off now.

This wake up call was there, alarm bells should have been ringing.

Mum21 said...

Hi alison ..so pleased you came back. I look forward to you popping in again to give your views on this case.
Have a nice day

dianeh said...

Rosie

You are so right. If there were incidences (as there were) and if the resort knew that parents were leaving their children and doing regular checks, then they (the resort) should have made it quite clear that this had happened. It could have been done simply, in a flier left in all of the apartments, or even by the nannies at the day care centre.

I used to work on an island resort a number of years ago and if we caught any children left alone in their rooms, the parents were dragged back to the apartment. We offered a baby sitting service and the children were not to be left alone. And I believe that after a couple of assaults on the island, that this was enforced even stricter. But this was not the only reason, it was the usual, they could get out and drown, get lost in the bush, fire, accident, etc.

Rosiepops said...

How sweet, tinkiebell. they are such a joy at that age and so full of attitude (a bit like our Tinks a fairy with attitude, I love it)

Talking of 3 year olds using the pooter (as my granddaughter calls it) she uses it too, in fact she uses it so well she managed ti bring ebay up and bid on a Louis Vuitton handbag! Fortunately she did not confirm her bid, (or unfortunately for my daughter lol)

She was showing me her pictures the other day and clicking with the mouse to bring them up and zoom in to make them bigger!

Mum21 said...

Hi Rosie. My guess is Buddha or Hope4You. It could be either.

Going off again for a little while now.
Be back later.

dianeh said...

Hi Assassin

They are so cute arent they. Almost makes me forgive the tantrums.

I say almost.

I read you posts from last night with interest. Always make interesting reading.

As you can see, I havent quite made it to bed yet. Actually, I am in a bit better mood now. When I looked up the link for the Beaumont children, I read a little bit and it started me weeping again. After I had my children I turned into the biggest sook. But at least it shows I have compassion.

dianeh said...

Rosie

Mine knows what ebay is but that is where Daddy plays (and Mummy too sometimes). And we never leave it logged in, just in case.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Dianeh, I understand fully when you say you need to lighten up before going to bed. I try to log off a least half hour before turning in now, as I have spent too many sleepless nights tossing and turning thinking about Madeleine. I've even woke up in a cold sweat before now. You dont realise how much it is playing on your mind, well I didnt.

Rosiepops said...

hi and Bye mum and I think you may be right. ludicrous was a favourite of Buddha's.

See you later have a nice day, I have had 40 ivory and deep pink roses and some of my favourite Baby's Breath Gyspohelia and a beautiful card delivered personally by my darling daughter today, so am very happy.
I am just sparing a thought for Kate tomorrow and willing and praying her to get some news to help ease her mind and for Shannon's mummy too. I don't think it is Mothering Sunday in Spain, but if it is my thoughts and prayers are with those mums too.

dianeh said...

Rosie

I never gave it a thought as to when Mothers day is in the UK. It is in May here.

I think it will be a terrible, terrible day for both of these mothers.

How sad. I forget about the simple things/everyday things that bring so much pain to a mother grieving for the loss of a child. And regardless of whether Madeleine or Shannon are alive or not, their mother's are grieving their loss. Without a doubt.

Rosiepops said...

Assasin, Diane and Tinks,

Me too, spent loads of nights tossing and turning and willing that there be news in the morning and it is till the first thing I do, turn the news on hoping hard that she has been found and feeling so bad when she hasn't been and now I have to look for Mari and news of Jeremy and of course Shannon, who I am glad to say is back in the news today, this has been really annoying me that this little girl has not made the papers in such a big way.

The difference in the search for Madeleine and Shannon could not be more distinct.

I sometimes fall asleep over my laptop after having trawled the news sites to see if there is any breaking news about these children.
When I do get to bed in the early hours I read a few pages of a book to help me wind down.

dianeh said...

I have to say, Im glad it isnt just me. My partner thinks I am insane because I have kept up with this case. he knows I cant sleep sometimes because of Madeleine (not just here but when I cant think, my mind always drifts to her, where is she, is she OK, until I have to get up and turn on the tv to get away from my thoughts).

And sometimes when I am reading about Madeleine, or other related information, I cry, and then he knows I am insane.

I find it draining sometimes (especially if there is other terrible news about children (or anyone that is defenseless), as I get upset often when I see the news) but then I think, if that is how I feel, how must Kate feel. I find it therapuetic to come on here. And I do other things as well, write to policiticians, forums, sign petitions etc, if I think it may help (depends on the cause of course).

Anonymous said...

They are too Diane. I'm sure you are gone now but i laughed too when you mentioned the time. I have an Oz clock on my screen all the time and i was about to say, not its not that time you are an hour out then i remembered you are so big you have different time zones lol!

I have some to say re the beaumomnt case later in relation to this one. I knew of that case cos i follow most. Will get it done soon as i get time:-)

Rosiepops said...

dianeh said...
Rosie

You are so right. If there were incidences (as there were) and if the resort knew that parents were leaving their children and doing regular checks, then they (the resort) should have made it quite clear that this had happened. It could have been done simply, in a flier left in all of the apartments, or even by the nannies at the day care centre.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A flier left in the apartment would have all that needed to be done, but yet again it has been brushed under the carpet, it seems that the tourist industry in Portugal was more important than children's lives and the scariest thing is, I feel it still is!

I feel that the Portuguese government is putting pressure on the PJ to get this off of the front pages of the news, sweep it under the carpet and act-like it never happened.

Tough Portugal, you do not know what Brits are like when we have the bot between our teeth, we are NEVER going to stop until we know what happened to Madeleine McCann and I can tell you that many of us are also hoping that through this we will also learn what actually happened to Joana Cipriano, Jeremy Vargas and Mari Luz Cortez and maybe others too.

This cat is out of the bag Portugal and let me tell you, you haven't got a hope in hell of it being put back.

dianeh said...

In a nutshell, I wish I could go back to those selfish times, when I was a teenager, early twenties. I didnt care about anything outside my own life back then.

But all in all, I am a lot happier now, even with sadness that comes with the news these days.

And on that note, I have just reminded myself that I am happy and will be signing off for the night.

Cheers everyone.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Cheers Dianeh, have a good nights sleep!

Speak soon I hope :-)

The Candy Floss blog really sucks said...

Hi and Bye Dianeh, Hello to everyone still here.

Just got home from work - don't know how long I will be around as we have severe weather warnings and are not supposed to leave the house. We have had instructions on where to park cars and the fire brigade sirens are going off none stop.

If a tree or something whacks whatever is giving me my Internet connection, then I won't be able to get online.

Just about to post "new" article. Hope Vile's mini bunch and Casa Crud read it.

Rosiepops said...

Diane,

I have to tell you that is through people like you, Assasin, Tinks, Sassy, Christabel, Maureen, Mum, Jane, China, Elaine and ALL of us on here, that this case will NOT be allowed to rest, we will NOT allow it to, the PJ think they will be able to quietly stick this on the shelf with other similar cases now collecting dust and get away with it yet again, but they won't, not this time.

PJ If you are reading this or maybe one of your little spies may tell you, you can forget it, we simply will not allow it to happen, you may not care what happens to children on your country but we do and we are not going to shut up and go away and as long as Kate and Gerry McCann need our help and support they are going to get it.

And God help us because I have a strong feeling that will not go away, that when we DO find Madeleine, the fate of many other children will also be learned and I hope it brings the Portuguese government tumbling down, because I firmly and resolutely believe that the good people of Portugal will not like what they learn and they will never forgive you.

By the way this is not a threat it is a promise.

Rosiepops said...

Sassy,

We had dreadful high winds here yesterday too, I thought our chimney stack was going to come down at one point, still windy now, but not near as bad, please stay safe Sassy.

Look forward to reading the article, sounds interesting.

Rosiepops said...

Good night Diane, see you later when you are as fresh as a daisy and we are all bleary eyed. Take care xxx

The Candy Floss blog really sucks said...

Hiya Rosie

Ta, will do!

Am barricaded in to my flat, have rescued the washing from the garden (it was hanging on my first floor balcony)!!! Car is parked in the middle of nowhere (as much as that is possible seeing as I live in a very woody area).

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hey Sass, we had high winds yesterday, they woke me up in the night, but today it is just breezy with a lot of sunshine.

Hope you dont lose your connection but most importantly you just take care.

Look forward to seeing new article.

melbel said...

Hi Rosie and all.I seem to choose my moments for when everyone goes offline !
I looked in at A's blog earlier,but it looked like the usual conspiracy theories. Hope was talking earlier about Madeleine being possibly hidden in a casket, pet or otherwise.
They need to get a reality check.
I find the timings around these daft theories to be impossible.
On holiday, not speaking the language and in full view of the world media, it beggars belief !Had the Portugese Police just leaked the initial stuff about finding forensic evidence and then left it like that,they might have fooled more people, but they overplayed their hand, while at the same time we were hearing that this evidence was overstated.
This constant dripfeeding of smears, on a daily basis, has made them look ridiculous and they have done this all by themselves, without any help from our media.
The treatment of the family has been inhumane and it is unbelievable that they have had no phone call or contact from the PJ[as I understand it ]all this time.
Our Police, whatever faults they may have [none are perfect] would have given regular statements and we would have demanded no less.
This vacuum, caused by their archaic secrecy laws, has led to this trial by media.
I expect Portugal to be in the dock, eventually because of this unfair treatment and breach of human rights.
The constant theme of antis that our press is muzzled as newspapers are generally supportive of the McCs, does not bear scrutiny either.I think most sensible and fairminded people take the view that they are innocent of being involved in her disappearance.
Neither do the British public have any difficulty in accepting that doctors could harm their children either.
We are not that deferential anymore, in my view and the Press would have had a field day, if they could have dished any dirt [ at least the tabloids ]
I think the pulling of the DE forum, etc, was probably linked to their being sued by Hogan and good luck to him.
I would not shed any tears for the tabloids.
I sincerely hope that the likes of Viv are sued too.
Do you have any idea about the law on libellous blogs ?
In a recent case, but I have forgotten the details, a provider [ is that the correct name?]was forced to give up e mail addresses.
I am reading and catching up, but not always able to post.
I think you are doing a good job in your moderating, all of you.
I am not going to respond to Dopeyhanger,[dad23 /2345 ]who was on a lot last night, as I find him scarey.
I do not want to go back to the days when I would post and switch off, with heart beating for an hour !
The pros will always have the moral and intellectual superiority, however, as we will not be manipulated by Portugese and UK tabloids, acting as an organ for the PJ.Take care.I will be here, there and everywhere today.
I keep missing Mum.Love her website. My son is marrying this year, too X

Anonymous said...

quickie on passing. Many of the antis could be charge with assault and harrasment, far less libel and slander, then there is publishing malicious content too. fits criteria succinctly in UK law.

Their ip numbers can be demanded from anywhere they post.

if the dx has been hit with a legal action or been asked to co-operate with a legality they will still have everything, they are legally obliged to keep it.

i never delete anything, totally, from my site and have all visits tracked, not cos im nosey but incase they are ever needed for legal reason.

back later

Rosiepops said...

Hi melbel

Sassy has just put up a really interesting article by India Knight, I have read this but i have just read it again, it is well worth another read, it summarises exactly what a lot of us feel about this.

As for hope so know she thinks Madeleine is in a casket or hidden inside a pet dog, doesn't surprise me she is hopeLESS as far as I am concerned, just the other day she was calmly putting out on the internet that perhaps Kate was carrying her dead daughter around in her pyjamas and getting in and out of taxis. You can't make it up Mel, I believe these people have now got very damaged psyches and if you will pardon the pun I now think there is no 'hope' for them. I am just angry that this woman has seen fit to choose a name as bright as 'Hope' for her ID it seems to sully the meaning, as she personifies everything negative and 'hope' doesn't even come into her comments.

I am just off out for a couple of hours will be back later. Hope to see you soon.

Anonymous said...

have fun rosie and enjoy the break;-)

Tinkerbell43 said...

Sass, thanks for the new article. It mirrors alot of our feelings over the past 10 months.

I hope they are aware of our blog and know there are people out here that have full empathy with them.

Reading that article has only made me want to support them more. This blog is a start, personally I wish there was more I/we could do.

Maybe, hopefully, McJustice will come back with some ideas we can work with.

I feel honoured after reading that article to know I share this blog with so many good people.

Tinkerbell43 said...

Before I become a fully fledged couch potatoe, I'm off to catch up on a few jobs.

See ya all later, bye for now. x

calcite51 said...

Manz - Love your comments and thank you for posting We're there for the McCanns Ulrika Jonsson. That was absolutely beautiful.

calcite51 said...

Diane - the one about the cadavar dog link - post all of your postings on the other site - get them going.

Has anyone heard that Jane Taner had a breakdownÉ

calcite51 said...

Hey, Diane - what is this about the Beaumont children

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