Thursday, 28 February 2008

My Months With Madeleine

Older Article But Well Worth Another Read or Maybe You May Have Missed This.

It was a welcome spring break, a chance to relax at a child-friendly resort in Portugal. Soon Bridget O'Donnell and her partner were making friends with another holidaying family while their three-year-old daughters played together. But then Madeleine McCann went missing and everyone was sucked into a nightmare


The Guardian,
Friday December 14 2007



We lay by the members-only pool staring at the sky. Round and round, the helicopters clacked and roared. Their cameras pointed down at us, mocking the walled and gated enclave. Circles rippled out across the pool. It was the morning after Madeleine went.
Six days earlier we had landed at Faro airport. The coach was full of people like us, parents lugging multiple toddler/baby combinations. All of us had risen at dawn, rushed along motorways and hurtled across the sky in search of the modern solution to our exhaustion - the Mark Warner kiddie club. I travelled with my partner Jes, our three-year-old daughter, and our nine-month-old baby son. Praia da Luz was the nearest Mark Warner beach resort and this was the cheapest week of the year - a bargain bucket trip, for a brief lie-down.



Excitedly, we were shown to our apartments. Ours was on the fourth floor, overlooking a family and toddler pool, opposite a restaurant and bar called the Tapas. I worried about the height of the balcony. Should we ask for one on the ground floor? Was I a paranoid parent? Should I make a fuss, or just enjoy the view?

We could see the beach and a big blue sky. We went outside to explore.
We settled in over the following days. There was a warm camaraderie among the parents, a shared happy weariness and deadpan banter. Our children made friends in the kiddie club and at the drop-off, we would joke about the fact that there were 10 blonde three-year-old girls in the group. They were bound to boss around the two boys.


The children went sailing and swimming, played tennis and learned a dance routine for the end-of-week show. Each morning, our daughter ran ahead of us to get to the kiddie club. She was having a wonderful time. Jes signed up for tennis lessons. I read a book. He made friends. I read another book.

The Mark Warner nannies brought the children to the Tapas restaurant to have tea at the end of each day. It was a friendly gathering. The parents would stand and chat by the pool. We talked about the children, about what we did at home. We were hopeful about a change in the weather. We eyed our children as they played. We didn't see anyone watching.

Some of the parents were in a larger group. Most of them worked for the NHS and had met many years before in Leicestershire. Now they lived in different parts of the UK, and this holiday was their opportunity to catch up, to introduce their children, to reunite. They booked a large table every night in the Tapas. We called them "the Doctors". Sometimes we would sit out on our balcony and their laughter would float up around us. One man was the joker. He had a loud Glaswegian accent. He was Gerry McCann. He played tennis with Jes.

One morning, I saw Gerry and his wife Kate on their balcony, chatting to their friends on the path below. Privately I was glad we didn't get their apartment. It was on a corner by the road and people could see in. They were exposed.

In the evenings, babysitting at the resort was a dilemma. "Sit-in" babysitters were available but were expensive and in demand, and Mark Warner blurb advised us to book well in advance. The other option was the babysitting service at the kiddie club, which was a 10-minute walk from the apartment. The children would watch a cartoon together and then be put to bed. You would then wake them, carry them back and put them to bed again in the apartment. After taking our children to dinner a couple of times, we decided on the Wednesday night to try the service at the club.

We had booked a table for two at Tapas and were placed next to the Doctors' regular table. One by one, they started to arrive. The men came first. Gerry McCann started chatting across to Jes about tennis. Gerry was outgoing, a wisecracker, but considerate and kind, and he invited us to join them. We discussed the children. He told us they were leaving theirs sleeping in the apartments. While they chatted on, I ruminated on the pros and cons of this. I admired them, in a way, for not being paranoid parents, but I decided that our apartment was too far off even to contemplate it. Our baby was too young and I would worry about them waking up.
My phone rang as our food arrived; our baby had woken up. I walked the round trip to collect him from the kiddie club, then back to the restaurant. He kept crying and eventually we left our meal unfinished and walked back again to the club to fetch our sleeping daughter. Jes carried her home in a blanket. The next night we stayed in. It was Thursday, May 3.


Earlier that day there had been tennis lessons for the children, with some of the parents watching proudly as their girls ran across the court chasing tennis balls. They took photos. Madeleine must have been there, but I couldn't distinguish her from the others. They all looked the same - all blonde, all pink and pretty.
Jes and Gerry were playing on the next court. Afterwards, we sat by the pool and Gerry and Kate talked enthusiastically to the tennis coach about the following day's tournament. We watched them idly - they had a lot of time for people, they listened. Then Gerry stood up and began showing Kate his new tennis stroke. She looked at him and smiled. "You wouldn't be interested if I talked about my tennis like that," Jes said to me. We watched them some more. Kate was calm, still, quietly beautiful; Gerry was confident, proud, silly, strong. She watched his boyish demonstration with great seriousness and patience. That was the last time I saw them that day. Jes saw Gerry that night.


Our baby would not sleep and at about 8.30pm, Jes took him out for a walk in the buggy to settle him. Gerry was on his way back from checking on his children and the two men stopped to have a chat. They talked about daughters, fathers, families. Gerry was relaxed and friendly. They discussed the babysitting dilemmas at the resort and Gerry said that he and Kate would have stayed in too, if they had not been on holiday in a group. Jes returned to our apartment just before 9.30pm. We ate, drank wine, watched a DVD and then went to bed. On the ground floor, a completely catastrophic event was taking place. On the fourth floor of the next block, we were completely oblivious.

At 1am there was a frantic banging on our door. Jes got up to answer. I stayed listening in the dark. I knew it was bad; it could only be bad. I heard male mumbling, then Jes's voice. "You're joking?" he said. It wasn't the words, it was the tone that made me flinch. He came back in to the room. "Gerry's daughter's been abducted," he said. "She ..." I jumped up and went to check our children. They were there. We sat down. We got up again. Weirdly, I did the washing-up. We wondered what to do. Jes had asked if they needed help searching and was told there was nothing he could do; she had been missing for three hours. Jes felt he should go anyway, but I wanted him to stay with us. I was a coward, afraid to be alone with the children - and afraid to be alone with my thoughts.

I once worked as a producer in the BBC crime unit. I directed many reconstructions and spent my second pregnancy producing new investigations for Crimewatch. Detectives would call me daily, detailing their cases, and some stories stay with me still, such as the ones about a girl being snatched from her bath, or her bike, or her garden and then held in the passenger seat, or stuffed in the boot. There was always a vehicle, and the first few hours were crucial to the outcome. Afterwards, they would be dumped naked in an alley, or at a petrol station with a £10 note to "get a cab back to Mummy". They would be found within an hour or two. Sometimes.
From the balcony we could see some figures scratching at the immense darkness with tiny torch lights. Police cars arrived and we thought that they would take control. We lay on the bed but we could not sleep.


The next morning, we made our way to breakfast and met one of the Doctors, the one who had come round in the night. His young daughter looked up at us from her pushchair. There was no news. They had called Sky television - they didn't know what else to do. He turned away and I could see he was going to weep.

People were crying in the restaurant. Mark Warner had handed out letters informing them what had happened in the night, and we all wondered what to do. Mid-sentence, we would drift in to the middle distance. Tears would brim up and recede.

Our daughter asked us about the kiddie club that day. She had been looking forward to their dance show that afternoon. Jes and I looked at each other. My first instinct was that we should not be parted from our children. Of course we shouldn't; we should strap them to us and not let them out of our sight, ever again. But then we thought: how are we going to explain this to our daughter? Or how, if we spent the day in the village, would we avoid repeatedly discussing what had happened in front of her as we met people on the streets? What does a good parent do? Keep the children close or take a deep breath and let them go a little, pretend this was the same as any other day?

We walked towards the kiddie club. No one else was there. We felt awful, such terrible parents for even considering the idea. Then we saw, waiting inside, some of the Mark Warner nannies. They had been up most of the night but had still turned up to work that day. They were intelligent, thoughtful young women and we liked and trusted them. The dance show was cancelled, but they wanted to put on a normal day for the children. Our daughter ran inside and started painting. Then, behind us, another set of parents arrived looking equally washed out. Then another, and another. We decided, in the end, to leave them for two hours. We put their bags on the pegs and saw the one labelled "Madeleine". Heads bent, we walked away, into the guilty glare of the morning sun.

Locals and holidaymakers had started circulating photocopied pictures of Madeleine, while others continued searching the beaches and village apartments. People were talking about what had happened or sat silently, staring blankly. We didn't see any police.

Later, there was a knock on our apartment door and we let the two men in. One was a uniformed Portuguese policeman, the other his translator. The translator had a squint and sweated slightly. He was breathless, perhaps a little excited. We later found out he was Robert Murat. He reminded me of a boy in my class at school who was bullied.

Through Murat we answered a few questions and gave our details, which the policeman wrote down on the back of a bit of paper. No notebook. Then he pointed to the photocopied picture of Madeleine on the table. "Is this your daughter?" he asked. "Er, no," we said. "That's the girl you are meant to be searching for." My heart sank for the McCanns.

As the day drew on, the media and more police arrived and we watched from our balcony as reporters practised their pieces to camera outside the McCanns' apartment. We then went back inside and watched them on the news.

We had to duck under the police tape with the pushchair to buy a pint of milk. We would roll past sniffer dogs, local police, then national police, local journalists, and then international journalists, TV reporters and satellite vans. A hundred pairs of eyes and a dozen cameras silently swivelled as we turned down the bend. We pretended, for the children's sake, that this was nothing unusual. Later on, our daughter saw herself with Daddy on TV. That afternoon we sat by the members-only pool, watching the helicopters watching us. We didn't know what else to do.

Saturday came, our last day. While we waited for the airport coach to pick us up, we gathered round the toddler pool by Tapas, making small talk in front of the children. I watched my baby son and daughter closely, shamefully grateful that I could.

We had not seen the McCanns since Thursday, when suddenly they appeared by the pool. The surreal limbo of the past two days suddenly snapped back into painful, awful realtime. It was a shock: the physical transformation of these two human beings was sickening - I felt it as a physical blow. Kate's back and shoulders, her hands, her mouth had reshaped themselves in to the angular manifestation of a silent scream. I thought I might cry and turned so that she wouldn't see. Gerry was upright, his lips now drawn into a thin, impenetrable line. Some people, including Jes, tried to offer comfort. Some gave them hugs. Some stared at their feet, words eluding them. We all wondered what to do. That was the last time we saw Gerry and Kate.

The rest of us left Praia da Luz together, an isolated Mark Warner group. The coach, the airport, the plane passed quietly. There were no other passengers except us. We arrived at Gatwick in the small hours of an early May morning. No jokes, no banter, just goodbye. Though we did not know it then, those few days in May were going to dominate the rest of our year.

"Did you have a good trip?" asked the cabbie at Gatwick, instantly underlining the conversational dilemma that would occupy the first few weeks: Do we say "Yes, thanks" and move swiftly on? Or divulge the "yes-but-no-but" truth of our "Maddy" experience? Everybody talks about holidays, they make good conversational currency at work, at the hairdresser's, in the playground. Everybody asked about ours. I would pause and take a breath, deciding whether there was enough time for what was to follow. People were genuinely horrified by what had happened to Madeleine and even by what we had been through (though we thought ourselves fortunate). Their humanity was a balm and a comfort to us; we needed to talk about it, chew it over and share it out, to make it a little easier to swallow.

The British police came round shortly after our return. Jes was pleased to give them a statement. The Portuguese police had never asked.

As the summer months rolled by, we thought the story would slowly and sadly ebb away, but instead it flourished and multiplied, and it became almost impossible to talk about any-thing else. Friends came for dinner and we would actively try to steer the conversation on to a different subject, always to return to Madeleine. Others solicited our thoughts by text message after any major twist or turn in the case. Acquaintances discussed us in the context of Madeleine, calling in the middle of their debates to clarify details.

I found some immunity in a strange, guilty happiness. We had returned unscathed to our humdrum family routine, my life was wonderful, my world was safe, I was lucky, I was blessed. The colours in the park were acute and hyper-real and the sun warmed my face.
At the end of June, the first cloud appeared. A Portuguese journalist called Jes's mobile (he had left his number with the Portuguese police). The journalist, who was writing for a magazine called Sol, called Jes incessantly. We both work in television and cannot claim to be green about the media, but this was a new experience. Jes learned this the hard way. Torn between politeness and wanting to get the journalist off the line without actually saying anything, he had to put the phone down, but he had already said too much. Her article pitched the recollections of "Jeremy Wilkins, television producer" against those of the "Tapas Nine", the group of friends, including the McCanns, whom we had nicknamed the Doctors. The piece was published at the end of June. Throughout July, Sol's testimony meant Jes became incorporated into all the Madeleine chronologies. More clouds began to gather - this time above our house.


In August, the doorbell rang. The man was from the Daily Mail. He asked if Jes was in (he wasn't). After he left I spent an anxious evening analysing what I had said, weighing up the possible consequences. The Sol article had brought the Daily Mail; what would happen next? Two days later, the Mail came for Jes again. This time they had computer printout pictures of a bald, heavy-set man seen lurking in some Praia da Luz holiday snaps. The chatroom implication was that the man was Madeleine's abductor. There was talk on the web, the reporter insinuated, that this man might be Jes. I laughed at the ridiculousness of it all and then realised he was serious. I looked at the pictures, and it wasn't Jes.

Once, Jes's father looked him up on the internet and found that "Jeremy Wilkins, television producer" was referenced on Google more than 70,000 times. There was talk that he was a "lookout" for Gerry and Kate; there was talk that Jes was orchestrating a reality-TV hoax and Madeleine's disappearance was part of the con; there was talk that the Tapas Nine were all swingers. There was a lot of talk.

In early September, Kate and Gerry became official suspects. Their warm tide of support turned decidedly cool. Had they cruelly conned us all? The public needed to know, and who had seen Gerry at around 9pm on the fateful night? Jes.

Tonight with Trevor McDonald, GMTV, the Sun, the News of the World, the Sunday Mirror, the Daily Express, the Evening Standard and the Independent on Sunday began calling. Jes's office stopped putting through calls from people asking to speak to "Jeremy" (only his grandmother calls him that). Some emails told him that he would be "better off" if he spoke to them or he would "regret it" if he didn't, implying that it was in his interest to defend himself - they didn't say what from.

Quietly, we began to worry that Jes might be next in line for some imagined blame or accusation. On a Saturday night in September, he received a call: we were on the front page of the News of the World. They had surreptitiously taken photographs of us, outside the house. There were no more details. We went to bed, but we could not sleep. "Maddie: the secret witness," said the headline, "TV boss holds vital clue to the mystery." Unfortunately, Jes does not hold any such vital clues. In November, he inched through the events of that May night with Leicestershire detectives, but he saw nothing suspicious, nothing that would further the investigation.

Throughout all this, I have always believed that Gerry and Kate McCann are innocent. When they were made suspects, when they were booed at, when one woman told me she was "glad" they had "done it" because it meant that her child was safe, I began to write this article - because I was there, and I believe that woman is wrong. There were no drug-fuelled "swingers" on our holiday; instead, there was a bunch of ordinary parents wearing Berghaus and worrying about sleep patterns. Secure in our banality, none of us imagined we were being watched. One group made a disastrous decision; Madeleine was vulnerable and was chosen. But in the face of such desperate audacity, it could have been any one of us.

And when I stroke my daughter's hair, or feel her butterfly lips on my cheek, I do so in the knowledge of what might have been. But our experience is nothing, an irrelevance, next to the McCanns' unimaginable grief. Their lives will always be touched by this darkness, while the true culprit may never be brought to light.


So my heart goes out to them, Gerry and Kate, the couple we remember from our Portuguese holiday. They had a beautiful daughter, Madeleine, who played and danced with ours at the kiddie club. That's who we remember.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/dec/14/ukcrime.madeleinemccann

430 comments:

1 – 200 of 430   Newer›   Newest»
dianeh said...

Hi Im First - Yahoo.

Just want to comment on this excerpt.
-----------------------
We had not seen the McCanns since Thursday, when suddenly they appeared by the pool. The surreal limbo of the past two days suddenly snapped back into painful, awful realtime. It was a shock: the physical transformation of these two human beings was sickening - I felt it as a physical blow. Kate's back and shoulders, her hands, her mouth had reshaped themselves in to the angular manifestation of a silent scream. I thought I might cry and turned so that she wouldn't see. Gerry was upright, his lips now drawn into a thin, impenetrable line. Some people, including Jes, tried to offer comfort. Some gave them hugs. Some stared at their feet, words eluding them. We all wondered what to do. That was the last time we saw Gerry and Kate.
------------------------------

One of the reasons that the Harpy believes that they are guilty of killing/disposing of Madeleine is because they went to the swimming pool. Harpy says it shows they didnt care and that if they cared they would have been searching. She touched on this in her letter to Mrs Healey.
But from the excerpt above, it is clear that they were suffering pain that we cant even imagine. Most likely just had to get outside.

I remember reading this article when it first came out, with tears rolling down my face. I still weep now.

Dear little Madeleine XOXOX

dianeh said...

Rosie

You asked me what a harpy was

here is a link to site that explains what a harpy is.

http://www.occultopedia.com/h/harpy.htm

Also, there were three of them.

They did vengeful errands for the gods. Sound a bit familiar.

See you all later on, I will try to get back on tonigh/your morning.

calcite51 said...

Diane - Are you still having trouble signing on? I have to almost sign up on google every nite before I can get on.

I read the article and was one of the original commentors supporting the article. It was my legal name - not calcite51.

I'm certainly glad that some of the more abusive posters are not coming to the blog (knock wood) anymore.

It's almost bedtime for me. Take care of yourselves. Maybe on the week-end, I'll be able to catch most of the posters here.

SassyP said...

I hadn't thought of the effect on the whole complex. What a nightmare, firstly having a little girl you know being taken, then knowing that someone was lurking to find a child to take and how it could have been yours.

helenm said...

Good morning to anyone out there.

Thanks again Sassyp for this article. I have never seen this before. It certainly puts paid to one of the many smears circulating in Portugal at the time and one that the anti's have used to justify their vicious attacks on the Mccann's, i.e.

This eye witness ( and we have no reason to believe that she is making this up, unless of course these two people were also in on the CONSPIRACY) was in the company of the Mccann's AT the Tapas restaurant on Wednesday the 2nd May. The Mccann's were NOT as reported at 'Chaplin's' restaurant on that night, where apparently they were called by staff at the Ocean Club complex because Madeleine had been crying for 2 hours!!

assasin said...

Re effect on the complex.

When a child is lost for whatever reason, ill health or abduction there is a profound effect on the community as well as the family.

As this case is so high profile, isn't that same effect - Global, not just in the complex.

This is just one part of why so many angry people are about - it drives home their own vulnerabilities, fears and anxieties.

As well as there being a natural thing that all people are affected by such a story as Madeleines cos it is innate in all to want to protect the young and vulnerable in society, the feelings in the complex would have gone without saying i think cos Globally, people were naturally looking at their kids and saying there but for the Grace....

A lot of these anti's would simply like Kate and Gerry locked up and put away so that they could lock up and put away inner feelings they cannot handle themselves.

Let this ugly reality of this World go away so to speak is part of their aim. ?

Jojam said...

Good morning All.

I had not seen this artical before but would just like to comment on these excerpts:-

It was a shock: the physical transformation of these two human beings was sickening - I felt it as a physical blow. Kate's back and shoulders, her hands, her mouth had reshaped themselves in to the angular manifestation of a silent scream.

Gerry was upright, his lips now drawn into a thin, impenetrable line.

-------------------

The description of Kate is exactly how I have described my impression of her when in discussion with my friends & family. I have compared her to the painting 'The Scream' I have said that even when she smiles, she still reminds me of this picture.

Anyone who says she is devoid of emotion must be blind & have no comprehension of body language.

With Gerry I always feel he is fighting so hard to remain strong & in control for Kate & this is missinterpreted for arrogance....

I was extremely moved by this artical & cannot understand how some people cannot see their pain.............

Jojam

Anonymous said...

Do remind me ladies,

isn't Bridget O'Donnell the dozy bint who "admired" the McCanns for leaving their children alone.

Sez it all, really.

assasin said...

The problem with articles, comments in news and press from people is that anything that is said is pray to the intellect and narrow mind, potentially of any reader.

So what if Bridget O'Donnel did say that? [Where is your evidence btw?]

She couldn't have meant that metaphorically rather than literally could she? it could not have been a fleeting thought she ommitted that did not mean what you suggest in such a black and white CHILD understanding as you have suggested.

Could she possibly have meant that 'ah just to escape the responsibility and have peace for two minutes'???

That does not read. I admire the McCanns for going to the tapas bar and leaving their kids to me. More, that she was using an example that perhaps was not the best one...

Parenting is tiring as well as rewarding and a pleasure and a gift to carry out.

But every parent, just for one second in their life at some point thinks, 'ah just to have two minutes peace'

Ok, we know we can't have it and leave small children alone even for that two minutes, but....

Could she have meant that?

Either way, Bridget has managed to write with love and COMPASSION.

Apparently some are devoid of compassion. The effects of a parent with no empathy and compassion on a child are???

Anonymous said...

Gina M says

Helen M/Rosiepops/Mum21

Helen I do not know what the purpose of posting my comments from Alsa's site on here was as it was taken out of context. Doc Mac had just posted and I replied informing him he had a whole article on him on Supertrolls site (if he was interested, which he wasn't) Personally I could not care less if doc is genuine or not and cannot see why people cannot find something more interesting to blog about. I never paste other peoples comments onto other blogs and would appreciate it if you refrain reposting mine, because as I said it take it out of context.

Mum 21 I am not doing an Isis, (whatever doing an Isis means) I am doing a Gina M, which is saying what I mean, and meaning what I say

Rosie, I think I have worked out what supertrolls site is all about and it is not one I will bother to visit again. Maybe you would like to nominate me for her annoying poster poll.

I started posting on this site because I wanted to debate both views, but it seems that is not what you all want so I will leave you to continue in the way you want and hope others do the same. From JanetGT's comments last night it seems she was getting bored because she had nobody to argue with. Well she cannot have it both ways and I trust that when any of you fancy a fight you will not stoop so low as to post anon on other sites.

Best wishes to you all and Goodbye

Gina M

Jojam said...

Anonymous said...
Do remind me ladies,

isn't Bridget O'Donnell the dozy bint who "admired" the McCanns for leaving their children alone.

Sez it all, really.

28 February 2008 08:45
.............................

I suggest you learn to read properly..............she actually said..........

"I admired them, in a way, for not being paranoid parents, but I decided that our apartment was too far off even to contemplate it. Our baby was too young and I would worry about them waking up."

assasin said...

Learning to read would be an advantage.

I note this morning that someone asked in response to yesterdays article in here...

was she sleeping - taking her away in a taxi would be good disposal method

Obviously, they fail to have read that the taxi driver, alleges, he saw Madeleines eye 'defect'.

Seems like sleeping with your eyes open is a natural occurence to some, perhaps;-)

Anonymous said...

Rogatory letters accepted by UK, PJ arrival for requstioning expected soon.

helenm said...

Ginam,
Don't know whether you will see this but....

how could the post be taken out of context when I simply cut & pasted your post. The reason why I did this was to illustrate that you had second thoughts on posting on this site (nothing to do with your paragraph to Docmac). This was in response to Sassyp posting that should we have to move sites because of abusive posts, then she would have to let you and others know (myself included) so that we would have ample opportunity to set up a google account. Obviously if you had already decided not to post her concerns were misplaced.

I find it odd that you should choose to post your comments on Alsabella's site and not tell us on here. If you say what you mean to say why not say it on here.

We welcome any poster on here, especially those that allow us to debate. IMO you did precisely that. I'm sorry if you feel that this forum does not give you that opportunity in return.

Anonymous said...

and it has been reported by the Tapas group lawyer that they want to change their statement. Why would anybody that has been telling the truth all along want to do that????

helenm said...

Anon,
Whatever this lady's thoughts on the Mccann's leaving their children in the apartment does not make her comments and thoughts any less true.

helenm said...

Anon,
What do you read into that then? I would be interested in hearing your take on it.

Mine would be that IF this is true then it could be simply to add something to their statement, maybe something they have remembered since. There could be lots of reasons, nothing sinister in that, except in the minds of the ones with an axe to grind perhaps?

SassyP said...

HelenM

Hi there

Rosie posted this article, not me! There are four moderators - Tinks, Mo, Rosie and me.

Glad you like it anyway - that's the main thing!

helenm said...

My apoligies Rosiepops.
Sassyp not seen Maureen on here is she about?

Anonymous said...

Gina M says

Thank you for your response and out of politeness I will reply. I did not think you all would be in the least bit interested that I had decided not to post on here again so did not see any point in reposting the post on here. I had hoped to debate here but it is impossible because any comments made are rubbished instantly. Looking back through last nights posts JanetGT seemed bored she had not received any abuse and was looking for someone to have a go with and that sort of thing is not for me. So as I said, best leave it the way it is. Hopefully soon this whole mess will come to an end and the PJ will either charge the McCanns or they will have their arguido status lifted. Personally on that score I have no interest in what happens to them as I lost respect for them months ago for many reasons.

One silly thought before I finally go. IF the taxi story is true (doubt it but ?) and Kate was in the Taxi as the driver thought, then although all the time lines do not match (because I guess they were all made up in the first place)it is worth considering that this is possibly the only scenario where Madeleine could be alive and well somewhere. It would mean that the McCanns are the biggest con merchants ever but it is Madeleine that matters so I guess I am inwardly hoping there may be some truth in this. However no more likely than abductors taking the child with them to buy secondhand furniture in Dorset

helenm said...

Rosiepops, see my last post your affliction is catching!lol

helenm said...

Ginam,
Isn't that they way of debates? I would not use the word 'rubbished' however, you have some differing views to mine, I do agree with some but by putting another view across is surely what this and other forums should be about.

helenm said...

seem to be talking to myself!! things are bad. Catch you all later.

Jojam said...

Assasin,

Yes, learning to read is an advantage but only if people then read with an open mind........some missinterprete & only see what fits in with their pre-conceived beleif's..........These people have close minds & cannot be objective.

Anonymous said...

Gina M says

Helen what I meant was it is impossible to debate on here not because of the differing point of views but because all of you "rubbish" everything except of course the PJ are rubbish. No possible thought that the sniffer dogs may be correct, Jane Tanner may be lying, or the whole group lying about how often they check on the kids. You all will have nothing wrong said about this group as if they are all perfect caring parents, which we all know is not the case otherwise the whole lot of them would not have left the kids. Moreover, only Kate and Gerry are unable to speak, but there has been nothing stopping the rest of them speaking out. Apart from JT's bundleman story, they have said nothing and I find that very odd. They could have put the records straight on the McCanns behalf months ago. Now I know there will be answers to all this from your posters but to be honest I will not be around to read them because it no longer matters to me what anybody thinks. It is was the PJ and the Uk police think after they have requestioned the group is the only thing that matters and all this debating is not going to change whatever the decision which I sincerely hope is the correct one

Jojam said...

Hi Gina, Idon't know if you will read this. I agree that the friends could have spoken out but maybe they have been advised not too! IMO if this isthe case they have been poorly advised. I do think that it would have helped the McCanns & the PJ investigation if the friends had been more forthcoming.

I do hope that the interviews take place soon & they all co-operate fully.

I don't know why I'm posting on the forum as you say we will change nothing..........like you I wish for a just resolution.......what ever that may be.

Anonymous said...

Wonder if Eddie and Keela will be recalled to PT after the re-questioning has take place.

Mum21 said...

Good Morning Gina M.
I do feel you are not being very fair here. We have never made you unwelcome ..not ever. But I do find it a little two faced of you to come here and join in with us in a friendly manner....then go straight back to Alsabella's blog to comment being with us is a waste of time and you don't think you will bother to come back again.
Especially when you ARE back.
Had you ever considered the reason we never condemn the McCann's or their friends is because we believe them to be innocent of any crime other than leaving the children alone? We are no different to anyone else...except in our views and opinions. Put it this way...if we post our opinions on either Alsabella's blog or Viv's...we are shot down in flames straight away. Do they ever consider their opinions may be wrong...and ours right. NO THEY DO NOT.
Finally on the subject of the taxi driver...if that was Kate as he suggested...then even the staff at the Tapas Bar have been lieing when they gave times of Kate, Gerry and the friends arriving there for dinner.
In my opinion this article is a setup.

Mum21 said...

I find it very one sided when we are accused of being cowards if we post on Alsabella's blog as Anonymous...when people from her blog and Viv's constantly are cowards on here.
So anonymous...if you want to attack our views..please have the courage to put a name to your posts.
Thank you.

helenm said...

I will answer to Ginam although she has chosen to leave the forum. Can you not see that what you baulk at is exactly what you and the ant's do with the pro's, no difference.

With regard to the witness's not speaking out, I think you willfind that all witness's not just arguido's are bound by the secrecy rule. If you remember JT spoke out knowing that she could face imprisonment for two years.

I too hope that this case can move forward now, but as you say my views are not important in the scheme of things. It is the Mccann's and Madeleine who deserve justice.

Tinkerbell43 said...

GinaM, speaking for myself I have given much thought based on the information we have been fed. From this information, I have come to a conclusion that differs from yours. This site is also an opportunity for people that share our views to HYS without fear of being attacked.

After 10 months, most people, with the odd few exceptions have made their minds up and based on this have chosen where to post their opinions.

Therefore debate on here is going to be pro and before you visit you will know that is going to be the theme and the reason it was set up, which is no different to the other blogs who also have their own agenda's too imo.

Jojam said...

GinaM,

One more thing to consider.....If the PJ had not been so 'hasty' in making the Mccanns suspects their questions may well have been answered fully & the investigation may well have proceded with co-operation from everyone.......who knows?

I try to look at the case objectively

Anonymous said...

SIMPLY LUDICROUS SAYS:

At last the Rogatory Letters are acknowledge in the UK (NOT A NEWSPAPER VIEWED HEARD ON TV) and the PJ are getting ready to re-question. Does anyone think Eddie and Keela will be recalled to PT after the re-questioning has taken place? A sighting after ten months C finds this hard to accept, yet Gail's sighting after 8 months is a real break through big enough to warrant a press conference, the one where no questions could be asked.

Mum21 said...

Hello another Anon. I think you posted that comment on the wrong blog. Because it is us who are being called cowards by Alsabella and Claudia....and Gina M...if we dare to post on their blog under the name Anonymous.
So I politely suggest you go back to where you came from
Have a nice day

Mum21 said...

As for the Rogatory Letters...we welcome them. The sooner the PJ turn up the better.
It is time this case was moved forward and solved.
As for the return of Eddie and Keela...if there is just one chance they may find fresh evidence...then yes I would welcome their return.

Anonymous said...

Mum 21 I am trying to be on the fence on this and decide which site to post on (in my name) but it seems to me all sites are guilty of what they accuse others of. I looked back at the posts and this is part of what GinaM said


I started posting on this site because I wanted to debate both views, but it seems that is not what you all want so I will leave you to continue in the way you want and hope others do the same. From JanetGT's comments last night it seems she was getting bored because she had nobody to argue with. Well she cannot have it both ways and I trust that when any of you fancy a fight you will not stoop so low as to post anon on other sites.

Best wishes to you all and Goodbye

Gina M

I don't see that as being nasty just asking for people not to post anon: I know others do it but two wrong don't make a right. As you have asked me to go back where I came from I cannot because I never came from anywhere, have just been hovering, but although I share a lot of the views on this site I like GinaM and others will not be returning as you have all clearly got some superiority complex

SassyP said...

GinaM

I cannot think of anything you have said that has been "rubbished" as you put it. You are in the minority here, but let's face it the majority here are very polite. It is OK to disagree with someone, as long as it is done politely.

If you want to post here, then post. If you don't, then don't.

Mum21 said...

Anon. May I suggest you now go back to see what she wrote on Alsabella's blog straight after leaving this forum.
I for one never post anywhere without showing who I am. Not that it does any good because it leaves me wide open to vicious attacks from other blogs.
So now...I no longer post anywhere but here.
Where you decide to post..is up to you. But just do not come on here trying to upset us.
Remember at all times that this blog was set up in support for the McCann Family.
So the choice is yours.

SassyP said...

Anonymous, you are welcome to post here if you don't just come to stir and call names.

It is easier if you choose a name and keep to it as it is sometimes difficult to know which "anonymous" is saying what.

Anonymous said...

Gina M says, Jojam/annonymous

Jojam I agree I think that is what was meant when they said they had been too hasty making the McCanns Arguidos because in doing so they could not requestion without going through all this letters approval nonsense. So yes it could have been sorted long ago, and I think for future cases something should be done to ensure these sort of delays do not happen again.

ANON - Thank you for your defence of me but please do not bother. My comments, as usual have been misinterpreted and I could not care less. I just happened to be here now because I pressed the wrong button and got this site up instead of Alsabella's. But it will not happen again because I will delete it from favourites. Enjoy whichever site you chose to post

SassyP said...

HelenM

Hi there

Maureen hasn't been posting recently as she isn't well, but as soon as she is well enough, I'm sure she'll be back!

See you later

Anonymous said...

Sassy P/ Mum 21

I have said nothing rude or called anybody names, but both seem to think I am here to cause trouble. You say I can post if I want, but you do not make a new poster feel very welcomed so thank you but no thank you I will post elsewhere.

Mum21 said...

No Anonymous..what it means is we are willing to debate with people with different opinions to ours...but we will not tolerate abusive comments, or people who condemn us or belittle us because of our views. Neither will we allow sick accusations against the McCann family as is seen on Viv's blog.
I think that is clear enough...don't you?

assasin said...

anon,
how about everyone forgets the bickering and talks about the topic. madeleine.

try giving it a go. post some thoughts you have on the investigation and see what is posted back.

if 'selfs' could be kept out of this...

best wishes

Anonymous said...

SIMPLY LUDICROUS SAYS:

Martin Brunt on Sky News praising Eddie and Keela, 'come on do your stuff' he says regarding the Home in Jersey. He states the same dogs used in PT.

SassyP said...

Anonymous

If you want people to be friendly to you, then try being friendly to them.

Now as Assassin so rightly says, forget the bickering and get on with the debate.

Mandz said...

Jojam I agree I think that is what was meant when they said they had been too hasty making the McCanns Arguidos because in doing so they could not requestion without going through all this letters approval nonsense. So yes it could have been sorted long ago, and I think for future cases something should be done to ensure these sort of delays do not happen again.

***********************************

I disagree. The McCann’s left Portugal with the PJ’s blessing and they signed an agreement that they would return to Portugal if called back however the PJ have not asked them to return have they? We know that JT asked to go back to be re: questioned and the PJ rejected this why? Why not call the McCann’s back and save “any letters”? I am aware they have extradition lawyer however have the PJ or their government asked for the McCann’s to go back to be questioned and if not why not??

No I believe Mr Riberio is aware from looking at the evidence from the old corrupt camp that the McCann’s are innocent and they acted too hasty and there should have been another evaluation of the case before making them suspects because they should never have been made “suspects”. This man’s words were intentional to let the public down gently.

Mum21 said...

Anonymous. Yes they are the same dogs...and they are brilliant at what they do. But they only sniff out what is there. They cannot control the quality of DNA they find....or test it.
It is the test results from any DNA they siffed out over the Madeleine case that is in doubt.
Trouble is..several posters on forums have drawn the conclusion that the DNA found is sure evidence against the McCann's...when to be honest I doubt that it is. The matches were allegedly not of a good count.

Anonymous said...

Assasin,

I agree this should not be about self but about Madeleine and I have some very strong views on this case and the way the McCanns have been treated and what should be done about it. However I only want to share those views on a site that I can respect and that is why I have been a long time choosing one and being prepared to share a small about of information that I have.

I used to read (but not comment) on the DX and really respected GinaM's posts although I did not agree with many of her views. I now see that you blanket everybody in the same light which IMO is totally out of order because some of the vile comments I used to read from people who shared your views were disgusting. The way some attacked foreign posters because of their grammar was not correct was also very unkind.

I do not think there is any point of me saying anymore, I think I would prefer to take my chances on posting my views on a site that does not necessarily share the same view.

Mum21 said...

Assasin. I would give up if I were you...this Anonymous has shown his/her true colours with his/her last comment. We all know that on the DE we took more abuse than we gave, Especially Rosie.

SassyP said...

Hiya Mandz and Mum21 (sorry been posting and didn't say anything!)

SassyP said...

Mum21 / Assassin

Apart from that it was me who got attacked because of my grammar! I made a typo and was told my "grammer" was wrong!!!

Mum21 said...

Hi SassyP. I was too busy posting comments as well.

Mum21 said...

SassyP and Assasin. I will not be replying to anymore posts from this Anonymous. I also have my own opinion on who it is.
I am sure you can have a guess too.

SassyP said...

Mum21

Won't be replying to anymore "I am a victim of your spite" posts either - just deleting them!

Mum21 said...

Well done SassyP.

Mandz said...

Anonymous,

Best of luck in your new site and I hope you find what you are looking for.

As for foreigners and grammar I think you will find that there is always two sides to every story however you have chosen one side therefore you have made up your mind and discarded the abuse others received from these people you defend?

Bye and the very best of luck.

SassyP said...

Mum21

If it in anyway reflected the truth, I wouldn't! But as it doesn't . . .

Mandz said...

Good afternoon all!

SassyP said...

Mandz

Nicely said!

assasin said...

Well, I've had it in the neck from both sides since i started by breaking promccann theories. Some of my arguments were not broken - however, i could break them myself.

Then debate against antimcanns, im afraid i can break every single one and i gave up debating against after that cos when they cant answer anything, they just fire abuse.

So, I'm here. At least if i come up with a point that needs thrashing in here - it is.

Anyway, i believe the mccanns are 100% innocent having looked at it thoroughly from all angles so no point of participating in a site that is off balance imo.

SassyP said...

Assasin: ...
"So, I'm here." ...
___________________________________

Good :-)

calcite51 said...

Good morning everyone. Hope all is well with everyone.

HelenM - agree it could be one who wants to add to their original statement or clarify a statement made on the original statement.

Anonymous said...

Mandz said...
Anonymous,

Best of luck in your new site and I hope you find what you are looking for.

As for foreigners and grammar I think you will find that there is always two sides to every story however you have chosen one side therefore you have made up your mind and discarded the abuse others received from these people you defend?

Bye and the very best of luck.

28 February 2008 12:52

Mandz I did say that both sides were guilty of abuse, but no matter. Thanks you for your polite post, respect to you Bye

SassyP said...

Calcite and HelenM

Agree - wouldn't be much credibility in changing a statement to a great extent!

assasin said...

If there were no inconsistencies in statements - the police would be highly concerned, they expect them in such situations.

It is very natural because in any such circumstances, or similar in any way, you go into an absolute tunnel vision and remember some things different from other people.
There will always be anomolies in statements therefore.

Changes in statements could just be better recollections of events after the initial shock, or even more things remembered.

They could also have been highly pressured during interviewing and LED to say things that were unclear or not what they absolutely meant - minor things etc.

They could have remembered more now too.

Equally, re the reported discrepancies, all are understandable and explainable so perhaps they feel ready to add more on this now. They are all things that become more apparent as clearer thinking and visions come as the shock and traumas wear off.

That said, has there been an official statement they want to alter statements? Or is this gossip again?

Mum21 said...

Assasin. Last time it was reported one of them wanted to change their statement....they denied it and said they did not.
Once again I put this down to press spin.

assasin said...

Last time i saw something re a statement change, it was on a forum, not a newspaper, and far less from an official source, hence me wondering if this is more of the same;-)

Mandz said...

Yes I agree that in that situation there must have been panic, shock and psychological stress and Gerry’s sister said Kate spent 7 hours waiting in the police station to give a statement however could not construct a sentence? Understandable IMO.

I also believe that when they telephoned their family they were trying to rationalise what happened trying to make sense of this nightmare and there you will find the “jemmed” and door locked unlocked etc..hence people are calling them liars which is sickening considering what they were going through.

When my house was broken into I stood in the lounge and said where is my TV, where is my microwave where is my car and the penny did not drop because I was in shock and trying to rationalise what was happening and when the police came I said “they have taken” who is “they”? And I said they came in through the window and the police said no the person/s got in through the patio doors! That was my house if that was your child what on earth would one act like?

assasin said...

That's totally it Mandz.

My ex was a cop and when our house was broken into, despite him having been a cop himself he was coming out with allsorts, shock.

They actually politely diverted to talking to me cos i was fine cos i was well used to having houses broken into from when young.

There were things not noticed missing for weeks too, like knives etc which they had used to cut my computer cables etc.

The police do initial statements very fast in cases involving child deaths and abductions too. Tunnel vision stage altogether.

Gerry and Kate would just be firing any explanation or thought that came into their heads straight out their mouths at that point. You don't even remember specifically who was where etc and an exact chain of events in such cases, it is just too much.

Dobywalah said...

Good afternoon friends & comrades, have enjoyed reading a few of your posts but have a sore throat and not feeling too great. But that won't stop me 'voicing my opinions' and I'll probably be back later. Meanwhile, it sems that 'anonimous' keeps on threatening to leave and find his/her self a more sutable site, but I expect he/she will be back soon!A whinger and whiner anyway!
Tell me ladies,(you too gentlemen)
would it not be a good idea to "Ban" and "ignore" all posts who don't have the manners, or courage to give out a name? Not as if they can be traced is it!
Doby.

Mum21 said...

Hi Mandz. A very good comment from you. When in a state of shock your thoughts are often not rational.
I remember once very many years ago losing my four year old son on a local beach. It was crowded and I was watching him paddle in the sea.(the tide was way out). One minute I could see him...the next he was gone. All I could see was masses of people. Of course I panicked...and shouted...but could not move from the spot I was standing. It was the crowds of people around me that searched for a blonde little boy in red trunks...I was not capable of moving. Of course he was found safe and well...but it just goes to show how easily these things happen....and how we, the parent can go to pieces.

assasin said...

Hi Dobeywallah,
I'm off now too, but maybe an idea to have on the front page - all whining and whinging shall be ignored lol.

Statement on front too stating anon posts aren't accepted. Please use name etc.

dunno what difference it would make though cos they can use endless names, and even get endless blogger id's etc...

Hope the throat improves soon

Bye for now everyone.

SassyP said...

Doby

Hiya. Not really posting - just checking every now and then there are no trolls to get rid of!

It is difficult to ban "anonymous" because if we changed the settings to only people with Google/IDs then you couldn't get here either! Nor could JoJam, or Whizzg or until 2 March HelenM.

The other problem is that people who don't have such an ID sometimes forget to sign their names at the end, so just deleting all posts which are anonymous wouldn't be fair either.

My work day is organised in such a way that I can keep an eye on it quite often throughout the day usually, so anyone who gets rude also gets deleted!

If it gets really bad, there are ways to keep people out. ;-)

Mum21 said...

Ho Doby...sorry you have a sore throat. Remind me to stand clear of you and your germs. te he he.
I know what you mean about the anonymous posters and would love to have them banned. Especially the rude ones.
Good to speak to you again

assasin said...

nor me, no google id either lol

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hi All, being at work I can only pop in and have a little peep from time to time, just like to say I have enjoyed reading what posts I have managed to sneak in, keep up the good work,see you all later :-)

SassyP said...

Assasin

Just realised! Because your name is blue and underlined I just assumed you did, but you don't have the orange "B"!

assasin said...

no worries. I'd get one if i needed it to read. Just avoiding long as i can cos i have so many accounts already lol.

Mum21 said...

Well Everyone. I am off out for a little while.
Hope to see you all later

Anonymous said...

Dixie said: I see you are worried about anons, well I do not see why because I have read their posts on here today and nobody seemed abusive to me, just trying to make a point. It looks like you read things in a differing way to me, but that is only my opinion. I am sorry the new anon did not stay as maybe he/she may have had something worth talking about if you had not scared her off by saying she was not for real. What a shame

Doby said...

Sassy (or who ever) can you please tell me how, after posting, bring up replies without having to place a new insertion and all the "rigmarole" of entering User name/password and so on? thanks!

Mum21 said...

Hi Dixie. The reason you did not see any abusive comments is because we delete them. But believe me..we have had some.
If you come in peace and want to debate...you are most welcome here.
Trouble is it is very quiet in here at the moment. Some are at work and others like myself have to go out.

Mum21 said...

Doby. Try just refreshing the page where you posted your comment. This way you do not go off the posting page.

SassyP said...

Dixie

Noone scared her off. I said it was easier if she used a name so we could distinguish one anonymous from another.

SassyP said...

Doby

Once you have posted click on refresh. That is all you have to do.

If you don't want to have to keep putting in your name, then you can get a googleID. Under "choose an identity" just choose the option "sign up" (or whatever it says that means that!).

All you have to do is type in your screen name, your e-mail address (the existing one) and a password to get onto the blog (not your e-mail password). Then once you log in you stay logged in - you don't have to keep putting in your name.

SassyP said...

Hiya Tinks

Everything is under control - don't worry! Have a nice day at work. Don't let the fact that I am at home having my day off worry you!

Anonymous said...

Dixie said - Mum21/Sassy

I come in peace but have nothing to say at the moment that would interest you, was just interested to see who and what was being said on lots of sites. All very confusing. Hard to pick out what is true and what is false and who is nice and who is not.

Rosiepops said...

Hi Everyone if anyone is still here, I have been reading the back posts to catch up on today and many points I see that are interesting.

I just want to stay that ostensibly this site was set up because there are so many sites that want to "rubbish" the McCann's and anything they say and anything they do, this is not one of those sites.
Having said that if people have an opposing view this is fine please post it, no matter what you want to post under be it Anonymous, or a name, it makes no odds as long as it is polite, we will not call you names or be abusive, but please do not get upset it you get confused with other anons because it is inevitable that this will happen.

Nothing stopping you using the Name/URL tag, you can just call yourself anything an remain anonymous.

Doby said...

Testing

JANEGT said...

+Rosiepops

hello just popping in at coffee break before school run, but wow - what an in depth article for food for thought. An awful lot of pre-planning and orchestration would be required if Mr/s Wilkins were to be involved. It doesn't add up that they were to me.

Rosiepops said...

Hi Doby

really glad to see you here again, sory to read you have a sore throat, nasty horrible things.

Soon be summer Doby ;-)

Jojam said...

Hello Dixi,

You will find that this site is normally very polite. some sites are less so. It is so confusing because there has been very little substance to media reports......lots of spin rumour and hearsay.........none of us really know anything.

Rosiepops said...

Hi Jane

Like many who have read this article for the first time, it reduced me to tears and laid to rest a lot of speculation, by someone that knows a lot more than us because she was there and was involved on the fringes of it. Her description of Kate is the one burned into my mind when I saw her go to the little church with her friend.

I have often wondered when Kate has been attacked for not showing emotion, if they have been looking at the same TV footage and photographs that I have seen.

Incidentally it was the PJ that first started attacking the McCann's for not showing emotion and strangely enough this was one of the reasons the PJ say made them suspicious of Joana Cipriano's mother and uncle! If people care to, they can see an awful lot of similarities between these two cases and the way the PJ have gone about conducting the investigations.

Mandz said...

Assasin & Mum!
Well it just shows us what one does when “stressed, shock etc” in a dreadful situation however no comparison to your child being taken. Mum you have got the biggest fright of your life and thank god he was ok. I remember my friend said she lost her son in a shop and the security people were asking her what he was wearing and should could not tell them? She washed and dressed him from head to toe however could not tell them what he was wearing. She did get him back however she was very ill the next day and her doctor put it down to what happened.
Assasin that reminds me months down the line I was still finding things gone!

SassyP said...

Doby, if you were testing your new blogger ID, let me be the first to tell you . . . it didn't work!!!
Hard luck - try again!

Hiya Rosiepops Trying to do lots of stuff at the same time, but wanted to check nothing nasty was happening on our blog.

JANEGT said...

gina m

The only comments I made, just a few as I was otherwise engaged, were on THIS SITE AND O OTHER. I was not bored. I cannot understand what POSTS' you mean. I am, like you profess to be, upfront and post under my own name. Please tell me where, what, and when I posted that you imply was my wanting AN ARGUMENT? This is totally untrue and unwarranted unless of course someone you know is posting in my name and not theirs.. I await your honest reply as you say you are honest. We welcomed you here. You are being grossly duplicitous and unfair in your targetting me in saying I was either BORED or ANGRY. I was, and remain NEITHER. Your accusations falsely made make you very low down now in my estimation of what you actually do in comparison to what you PROFESS to do.

You are duplicitous and a troublemaker and like you DO NOT WANT MY NAME USED IN ANY OTHER POSTS EXCEPT HONESTLY AND DIRECTLY.

Stop being two faced.

I feel if you have an issue with me personally you debate it WITH ME AND NOONE ELSE. Nor should anyone drop my name in their posts, nor stalk me, nor say they know where I live, nor use my phone ... or do you condone that too?

SHOW ME ONE POST WHERE I WAS ANGRY, OR BORED. SHOW ME JUST ONE.


You won't.

coz you can't.

Anonymous said...

Dixie said Hello Jojam

I must be an oddball because I seem to agree with things said on both sides of the case. Stupid I know, but some people make a lot of sense with what they say even though we all no that nobody really knows anything.

I have looked in on loads of sites and some I find more interesting than others and some funny and others no very nice. I have even got to recognise some names that pop up from time to time and have started to have my favourites. I have seen your posts before and they always seem to me to be fair and reasonable

Mandz said...

Hello all and bye for now!

Doby good to see you! I also had a sore throat however it only lasted a few days! Hope to see you on again soon!
Bye,

SassyP said...

Hello Dixie

If you type your name in Name/URL instead of Anonymous - you are in fact no longer anonymous! Don't be put off by the URL part - you don't need it - just leave it blank.

SassyP said...

By Mandz - don't forget to practise your rugby tackles, scrummage, etc!

isis said...

Just a quick post to dispel any confusion. I am not the anon whinger,although having being calledsneaky,sniveling,grass,snitch,crappy and whinging i can see where your collective suspicions would have been aroused. I am not here to argue nor cause trouble,i just want it known. Many thanks.

Doby said...

Mum21 & Sassy
Mum21, have explained previously I'm not very technical minded (thick) when it comes to computers and I can't see any way to "refressh" to bring up replies after posting,nothing for me to actually 'click on' which means I have to 'leave another comment'as I'm doing now, plus then putting in my user name, password, Name/URL and then click 'Publish'.
*Sassy* thought i was already signed in with Google. or maybe not, I've had so much confusion lately with this PC thing. Tell me Sassy, do you ever feel like putting a hammer through the screen or curse the day you ever decided to buy one?

SassyP said...

Doby

No, I just wish I lived near absolutely everybody, because I could show you in a couple of seconds how it works and it takes much longer having to do screenshots and send pictures of how to do it!

Mandz said...

Ha Sassy!

I went to the gym last night and I’m feeling a bit tired so if I see her and it is "her" I'm going in with my handbag!

Ps what will you do if you see her “do some kind of war dance”?!!

Bye for now!!

Mandz said...

Doby!

If you look at the top of your computer - very top (next to google) you will see two green arrows just click it and the page will refresh!

I hope I have not added to the confusion! Ops sorry!

Bye!

SassyP said...

I'd love to see you on some CCTV film bashing a suspected kidnapper with your handbag!

I'd Michael Flatulence them into a stupor, then call the cops!

Tinkerbell43 said...

Hiya Jane, the only thing I can recall and have checked back on, is your post at 22:45 yesterday night, if it is this that is being referred to, then it has been taken totally out of context.

Absolutely ridiculous!

Best to ignore. You are one of the friendliest/funniest posters
on here :0)

Bye for now - Tinks x

JANEGT said...

penny dropped....

I was jibing with seawitch....as we usually have a 'go' at one another IN FUN.....s as I had only had one comment re me, viz I was JANE TANNER and rotb knew my whereabouts, I JOKED GINA M ;O);O)
that I was going to bed as had not had my share of abuse. IN JEST .... now I see what on earth you meant.

Seawitch and I have sparred for 10 months now and we don't want to, or are unable to, stop. Red flag to a bull....IT IS ONLY IN FUN NOT AT ALL SERIOUS. ....

Apart from that GinaM, is there anything else? I was jesting I was 'borred' and had no 'abuse' as from what we had on here in last 3 or 4 days since our blog ID was kindly put forward, we have had a lot of obscene, nasty rants. Deleted of course.

Please do not take my sparring/teasing/jesting/bantering with Seawitch seriously. It's just our (warped) sense of humour..........;o);o);o);o)

JANEGT said...

outta here gonna be late.....

thank goodness I worked out what that was all about.

see you tonight.....when it 'livens up'......literally.

Doby said...

Decided to 'sign in with Googel' and was told to use a differnt name, 'Spot the differnce?'

assasin said...

Dobywallah. Just press the F5 button on your keyboard and it will refresh screen/comments.

Alternately, you will have a refresh button somewhere on your explorer window. One of your toolbars at the top depending how your computer is set up which, if any toolbar you have it on. You are looking for an icon with two vertical arrows, one going either direction [up or down] or not an icon, if you dont have it on a toolbar. If its not on your toolbar, it will be on your address bar. The cell behind the url for this site will contain your arrows for refresh then.

F5 is simple though.

Unfortunately, there is nothing on the blogger page itself to refresh bar hitting the top article link again:-)

Rosiepops said...

Doby another quick way to refresh this page is just press your F5 key on the top of your keyboard.

It will get easier Doby. It is great if you have an avatar too as this helps you spot your own posts and those of others you may wish to read or debating to.

When you have got the hang of this we will help you get an avatar if you wish, dont worry it is simple.

Rosiepops said...

he he he assasin great minds lol

Rosiepops said...

You are getting there DOBY ;-)

Dobywallah said...

"Spot the difference?" No, that's because there is none, I've been told that I'm already posting as Dobywallah and to use a different account. Don't think I'll bother, got enough problems with this one!
Off now, will be back later, bye!

Anonymous said...

Janetgt/Tinkerbell

As I said in my post, I am not Gina she is out, I am her friend Bee.

Janet
I know Gina well enough to say that if she misunderstood you, then she would send her apologies, and I will do that for her as I see what you mean and she will too.
I think she was upset more than annoyed that her comments were taken the wrong way too. She said to me why post the same thing on all sites when everybody reads them all anyway. Twice today someone has reposted her comments on here for no other reason that I can see that to put her in bad light- Not fair IMO, but as she would say, "what the hell, if they have nothing better to do let them get on with it"

Tinkerbell - It seems to me that ignore rather than try to resolve is a stock answer by many on here, but again only my opinion

Rosiepops said...

Jane

see you later, everyone here knows exactly what you and SeaWitch were doing and were enjoying the *friendly banter* with you. Other remarks are just that remarks and mischievous, they know exactly that this was just friendly banter and if they don't then they should learn to lighten up, pay them no heed.

We would not have you any other way Jane xxx

SeaWitch made me laugh the other night when she proudly proclaimed she has been called "SeaBitch" among other things. lol

She should see this as a compliment, because she makes some absolutely brilliant and informative posts.

assasin said...

I know rosie. my fingers are too busy on keyboard to play/scroll as far as toolbars lol;-)

Toolbars waste screen space.

Rosiepops said...

See you later Doby or Dobywallah, take care, look forward to your return x

Rosiepops said...

Assasin

Wanted to say you have made some excellent posts today, in actual fact quite a few people have.

I particularly agree with the post about these *alleged* inconsistencies. because it has always stood to reason if you have 7 or 70 people looking at one particular even you are like to get 7 or 70 different takes and different times and like you if all these stories were consistent with each other, I would be the first to say that they must be contrived. What would the PJ expect?

Equally why have the PJ taken 10 months to clear these inconsistencies up?

Rosiepops said...

Rogatory Letters.

Does anyone know if this story about Clarence Mitchell saying he knows they are in the UK is true or is it just more internet claptrap?

5 months they have been coming to ask these 14, 40, 100 questions and still they haven't.
(One has to think they cannot be that important then)

Tinkerbell43 said...

Bee, I am familiar with the people I have been posting to for the past 10 months. I am therefore familiar with the banter that goes on between Jane and Seawitch. It is unfair for someone not so familiar to take that post and try to make a point out of it.

You are right where I believe someone is purely here to stir then my advice will always be, best to try and ignore and for the record I am speaking here generally, not in a direct reference to Ginam.

assasin said...

Thanks Rosiepops.

I think there could be several reasons for reinterviews and time taken re inconsistencies - many of which are straight forward procedure and non accusative too.

Without knowing what specific questions they want to ask again, or what they want cleared up it is hard to make accurate comment i think.

I don't want to veer down any paranoid conspiracy plot either, think we have heard enough of those, but ive got to say, even with the most level and objective of heads on many things about the PJ are beginning to concern me in this investigation.

Kate & Gerry need to be in the UK and have the absolute best of representation and support from all sources prepared to back them and give them that cos i think they are vulnerable to potential victimisation and wrongful charges if taken back to Portugal. I'm sure they would go if asked, they have stated so, and me, im crazy, so id be there taking the risk i could make them see truth and sense, but not an enviable spot are they in at all re the investigation, far less Missing Madeleine. The twins have lost enough as have Kate & Gerry without wrongfully losing their family and/or freedom.

You are absolutely right, all people give different statements and remember differently all the time. I remember when losing my wee one, I was adamant the ex came pounding back up stairs when i started screaming. He is adamant he was stood right in the same room as me when the screams started. 6 years on, I still could not tell you which one of us is right or wrong because both still think their respective version is right.

Thankfully, tht was not in a situation like Kate and Gerry so the different view did not matter and was not questioned.

But, if you take that same example, it shows you how every witness could remember significant things - rightly, or wrongly...

Need to go now, will look back tonight:-)

Anonymous said...

gina m pull the other one. Every time you come unstuck your supposed friend bee comes on. Even on the DE i never beleived it was your friend, just admit it gina Bee is you

Anonymous said...

Bee said Tinkerbell

It is wrong of me really to get involved in this because unlike Gina who has been posting for ages, I just, if you like, pop in when I am at her house visiting and she has had to go do something (usually on a mission, but that is another story)

We were discussing these forums this morning over a coffee and what Gina said was, although the Daily Express HYS was getting out of hand at least all the comments were in one place and all had a name to them (of course some post under two/three names). She felt that it was better having all views under one roof because it was easier to keep up with the continuity of postings.

I think when I explain what happened with Janets post she will realise that she lost the plot so to speak on what was going on which may not have happened if she was not looking and posting on two sites.

All I do know is that although she speaks her mind and sometimes can appear a bit hostile, she is a sincere, genuine and caring person. There is no hidden agenda with Gina and I was actually surprised today when she appeared a little upset that she had been taken the wrong way. I think all she was trying to do was ask people no matter what their views to not post anonymously and not be abusive to those who did not have the same view. However, I will never change Gina, she goes from one extreme to the other, it is either do what she can to improve things or sod'em let them all get on with it. I think she is in the latter mode a present. Sorry to bore you to death, am off myself now to try and do something to cheer my mate up when she gets back

Anonymous said...

Bee says annon

Anonymous said...
gina m pull the other one. Every time you come unstuck your supposed friend bee comes on. Even on the DE i never beleived it was your friend, just admit it gina Bee is you

28 February 2008 16:09

----------------------------------

Bee says not that I care a hoot what anybody who cannot even put a name to a post thinks, but you are so wrong. I have posted on the DE on Gina's name, but I cannot recall her ever coming unstuck and me bailing her out. I have posted about her out saving a dog and I cannot remember what else now but nothing much as I recall.

But thank you so much for trying to cause trouble between Gina and I it is much appreciated. Now I see why she said to me be careful what you say if you post because there will always be one who will want to contridict you.

Rosiepops said...

Assasin, I think you know my heart goes out to you, my own sister had a still birth and even now all these later it is still with us, but it is strangely enough a bond that can never be broken. Much love and respect to you.

The McCann's
I feel are totally innocent but I think they are going to have to somehow prove this, as if they haven't enough to deal with.

Anonymous said...

Dixie says Hello Bee
if you are still here.
I think that Anon poster is probably someone who Gina has not agreed with at some time. Take no notice. I think I know who it is but not worth mentioning as it will prove nothing and is ruining any debating. Take care and don't worry about it.

JANEGT said...

isis

on here these are compliments.....!!!!

ginam/bee

I think I know what has happened....joking banter has been mistaken for 'real' abuse but Wheezesnitch and I have been doing it for 10 monhs no, as we agree on some things and it got boring sayng 'I agree with the wondeful post by....aaarrrggghhhhh@. No. A lot of people here speak genuinely from the heart and when it gets repetitive we start fooling around and jokiing...but we all really care very much indeed about Madeleine and all abused missing children for whatever reason who have no voice.

I enjoy your perspective here, but I do not like the multi#posters you and some on here have become target of......not one bit. Esp. the anon posters who come on, attack and leave. Eats shoots and leaves springs to mind here for some odd reason......and how.

As Rosiepops, SassyP, tinkerbell ad Maureen have said, everyone is welcome here who is polite....no matter their viewpoint. And that is genuinely felt by the posters/bloggers too. So come here, as you, GinaM. Don't pretend to be anyone else as you and I don't like that, do we...??

Now, about this taxi, I don't believe it.....what do you feel? And as for those letters...hope they are here, now, and things can move forward not backwards as has been happening for months now. this has gone on far far too long to be a simply worked out case.

Is that Madeira Lawyer still trying to fund dragging that lake? What is the news in your part of the world re the M3 associate linked to drugs haul?

And why oh why oh why is nothing at all simple and straightforward in this strange case? If a novel noone would buy it as far too far fetched..... So many stories start, then have no middle never mind an end.

Incredible.

Rosiepops said...

Right no more posts about GinaM please.

Anyone want to talk about Madeleine or the rogatory letters or why the PJ has not yet arrived in the UK?

Or can someone supply a link where it says that CM has said the letters are in the UK? Have seen this written but cannot find it officially anywhere.

Thanks

Mandz said...

Bee,
Tell GinaM the very best of luck & hope she get's good debates going on Alsablog!

I suppose we wont see her again so good bye and take care.

Mandz

Rosiepops said...

Hi Jane

You just popped up as I posted my last comment.

Please see Tinks and my comments above. Please do nto worry we know what happened betwen you and seaWitch was friendly anyone does and please do not stop.

Have you heard if Clarence Mitchell has said these letetrs are actually in the UK?

Rosiepops said...

Hi Mandz

How are you we have been like ships again these past few days LOL

Mum21 said...

Can somebody tell me why this blog has suddenly become more about GinaM than the McCann's?
She made her choice..she prefers posting elsewhere. As far as I am concerned that is fine. What I did..and do object to his her coming here and being made welcome...only to find out she then trashes us on another blog.
As for her friend Bee...no comment.
This is a pro McCann blog and any person who does not like that...then feel free to leave.
I have been told that Alsabella is stating we cannot stay away and constantly are posting on her blog to make trouble. All I can say to that is she flatters herself...because I no longer post on there be it with my name...or as anon.
Now I am going off of here again until this once more becomes a civilised and friendly forum for debating.

Mandz said...

Hi Rosie!
Nice to see you hope all well! Yes I’m never on “same time” as you.

As for the letters I have a feeling it won’t happen? I don’t believe the letters are here.
Maybe it’s because nothing has happened in months however I just feel this is not going to happen and the case against them will be dropped.

Teyman said...

Hi Rosie got here with your info this time.

Teyman said...

That was me Rosie Whizzg alas Teyman

Rosiepops said...

Hi whizz,

thank goodness you are here, landed at last.

Now are you going to keep teyman for a little while so as not to confuse me? LOL

No matter really glad you are here, for the future if you just go to the main story of the day which will normally always be at the top and click on the comments button at the foot of that particular story you should always get it.

It is a little quiet at the moment but will pick up this evening and your mate China comes on in the evenings too ;-)

Teyman said...

Could anyone tell me about Kate's diary. Did pj ever get original or just the p/copy

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Rosiepops said...

Mum

Don't worry the situation is in hand and I have asked that posts referring to GinaM be stopped now.

I wanted to ask as no one seems to know for certain has Clarence Mitchell said these letters are here in the UK or not?

Mandz do you know?

Teyman said...

Rosie I'll try my best to stay Teyman for the foreseeable future:-)

Rosiepops said...

All posts referring to GinaM will be deleted.

This is not the GuinaM or her friend blog.

Thank you

Rosiepops said...

Teyman

Where have you been? We have really missed you. Hope you have been well.

Mandz said...

Yes Bee it was/is a genuine post.

Teyman said...

I'll look in tonight Rosie and all. Can't wait to chat to Chinadoll:-)

Rosiepops said...

Teyman

The PJ apparently have a copy of the diary and now it is rumoured they want the real thing, although no one can give a sensible answer as to why they would want it.

Also if it was that important why did they give the thing back?

Rosiepops said...

I'll tell her you have been on and Laz aka pedro maybe back tonight too hopefully.

See you later if you are off and take care x

Rosiepops said...

Assasin Posted this and I think this is a very good explanation as to why some people are so harsh.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

assasin said...
Re effect on the complex.

When a child is lost for whatever reason, ill health or abduction there is a profound effect on the community as well as the family.

As this case is so high profile, isn't that same effect - Global, not just in the complex.

This is just one part of why so many angry people are about - it drives home their own vulnerabilities, fears and anxieties.

As well as there being a natural thing that all people are affected by such a story as Madeleines cos it is innate in all to want to protect the young and vulnerable in society, the feelings in the complex would have gone without saying i think cos Globally, people were naturally looking at their kids and saying there but for the Grace....

A lot of these anti's would simply like Kate and Gerry locked up and put away so that they could lock up and put away inner feelings they cannot handle themselves.

Let this ugly reality of this World go away so to speak is part of their aim. ?

28 February 2008 08:40

helenm said...

Hi Rosiepops, seems like I started World War 3. What's going on?

Mandz said...

ROSIE,

wanted to ask as no one seems to know for certain has Clarence Mitchell said these letters are here in the UK or not?

Mandz do you know?
***********************************
No Rosie I don’t know however I believe that if CM new that the letters were here ready and waiting then he would be preparing the public for this?
That’s just my take on it. I’ve not read anything from him saying anything about these letters! Who knows!

Teyman said...

A

melbel said...

Hi All
Been on grandparent duty a lot, but reading more than posting.You may all be away from computer now.
The Guardian article is very moving and anyone with any sensitivity can see by Kate's body language her pain and grief.
There are sadistic people however, who must get a payoff from other people' suffering.
I am also convinced that many of the posters, who came to DE forum night after night, to put the boot in,are severely disturbed and twisted individuals and I am sad to say that some must be getting some sexual gratification by so doing and their behaviour is way out of normal limits.
Peeked at Alsabella' site and Dogmad was saying Evening Standard was talking of Portugese Police coming over to question 3 of tapas.Is this online ?
Who is the Spanish journalist, Roberto castillon, who they are rubbishing, as having changed sides, from believing initially that the Mccs were involved in their daughter's disappearance?
I am on and off just now. Take care, all my chums.

assasin said...

There is a lot of sexual gratification in many of the posts of the antimccanns, ive been watching that from day 1.

JANEGT said...

ginam versue Bee

does that make her a

BEEGEE

Rosiepops said...

Helen

Don't worry you did not do any such thing, it has been about absolutely nothing.

Just a person saying she wasn't going to post again and then doing precisely that and her friend too.


No problem absolutely nothing for you to worry about.

I wanted to ask you about the PJ Helen your post where you said that no one seems to be able to question the PJ is chilling, it smacks of a police state to me and goes some way to explaining why it is some of the Portuguese posters seem so scared of them.

I see you had a touch of the i's and o's too. LOL

Mandz said...

Mellbel!

Absolutely you are so right!
That is not the behaviour of "normal sane people".

Rosiepops said...

Assasin, you have noticed this too? So have many others!

Rosiepops said...

Hi melbel

So glad to see you back and I hope you pop on later, was thinking of you yesterday and today and wondering where you were. It seems that many of us have been having similar thoughts and maybe found the DX too narrow in confines to be able to to say it!

Rosiepops said...

Jane no it makes her a wally.

geebee eebeegeebees oh alright I know it isn't really seplled that way. lol

Rosiepops said...

Evening Standard?

Will have a look, isn't this a sister paper of the DX too?

Rosiepops said...

For those of you who want to read about the rogatory letters here is the link to the Evening standard.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23444010-details/Madeleine+police+to+come+to+Britain+to+re-interview+Tapas+Nine/article.do

JANEGT said...

assasin

we shared a lot of opinions last night. but...weren't you totally against the McCanns initially? Can I seriously asked when and what changed your views?

I have been for 3 to 4 days now tried to find out about hese rogatory letters and there are a lot of posts, not newspaper confirmed articles on them ... so I don't believe anything at all. Things are silenced, stagnated, not progressed, disbelieved then believed, oh heavens no woner the case is stagnant if not in reverse.

One thing I seriously want to come out of this, and that is that SECRECY LAWS are totally thrown out for all forces. Gagging people who should be progressing the investigation is madness and keeping it out of the public domain where it should be to gain information and help - never mind an important WITNESS or so....Archaic.

DOBY

You make me feel like a computer whizz kid.....I too took up new google id and sined in every time till I noticed the little 'sign in' at top, then backspaced and can whizz along now in 2 minutes and it used to take me 15..... I know how you feel, but once you get there, no looking back. Promise. Now....where's the paraffin lamp for my computer.....?

Rosiepops said...

Sorry Anon, I had to remove it, to have that post shown here without actually posting it is h=what she wants and we have no idea if it wasn't her actually posting it either.
Anyway whatever, we feel that Gina and her friend have taken up too much of this board today and have totally disrupted what was turning into a good debating day. Maybe this was intended? Let's not allow it.

By the way Gina, If you read this please do not keep blaming Sassy, there are 4 moderators working this board.

Now anyone managed to read that Evening Standard report yet? I have given the link above here it is again.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23444010-details/Madeleine+police+to+come+to+Britain+to+re-interview+Tapas+Nine/article.do

Rosiepops said...

DianeH

I followed that link you gave me and how apt? And three of them too!

See you later

assasin said...

Yes Rosiepops,
The problem with their posting is they dont realise that the words they type have anaylitic meaning.

There is what the say and do and how they think - but there are also the subconscious and conscious drives that lie behind such things.

Apart from their actual views on the case and things that they bring up, the little snippet and jokings etc give away as much again.

Her that demands 20 minutes not 5 deleted what i posted to her but i pointed out left right and centre to her on this subject.

There are equally as many raging against their own suppressed inner child rages and as many again using madeleine as a healing tool.

they know not what they write, but it is not pretty.........plenty sexual in it.

Photos and how they see them are blinding examples of this, but there are many more which look like nothing but are actually worse than what they imply re some of the innocent photos.

Then there is one that writes letters to a mother,cept it is not the mother it is addressed to:-)


Assasin posting here rosie, some reason my post wouldnt go through swo im trying open url mode

Rosiepops said...

Assasin, you are very astute and I agree with what you have written.

You are right, that letter was addressed to the wrong mother!

I very seldom get really angry like that but have to say that letter made me apoplectic, I even took a couple of hours to try and calm down. it was one thing writing it, but what do you think of the poster 2345 for supposedly delivering it?
I mean how far do we let this cow towing go?

Rosiepops said...

actually anon that was a joke, try and learn the difference please. i f I got upset and demanded every single post that deliberately pronounced my name wrong I would have to set aside a month for doing it.

Mandz said...

What is going on and what posts are being deleted?

assasin said...

Jane,
Yes, I was totally against some of their behaviours in the beginning.
That gets you labelled an anti of course.

However, having thoroughly examined everything from either side as i posted earlier - every single accusation against the mccanns can be broken no matter whether its an accusation about their behaviours or attitude. Many of those i had to combust myself too.

On the other hand, there is nothing given deep thinking examination from the 'anti camp' that can not be explained...

So, im happy to say i think 100% innocent.

One can view both sides objectively before coming to an absolute decision.

Bit wiser than taking an immediate and reactive stance and sticking with it dont you think?

We all know what thought did, and frankly, there are gonna be a lot of people with feathers stuck up their %WT after this:-)

Mandz said...

Assasin!

Was that your name on the DX? Did you post a link about child exploitation?

Rosiepops said...

Mandz

Sassy and I have been deleting the anonymous posts about GinaM and her friend because 'our' forum was beginning to look like the Gina and her friend show.

This is all, no real problem.

Did you see that bit in the Evening Standard?

"Portuguese police will arrive in Britain within the next ten days to reinterview friends of Kate and Gerry McCann over the disappearance of their four-year-old daughter, Madeleine.

David Payne, Jane Tanner and her partner Russell O'Brien are set to be quizzed first in a last-ditch attempt by cops to crack the mystery. Police will then decide whether to requestion other members of the so-called Tapas Nine, it was claimed."

Why the next 10 days? Why only 3 friends? Where are these letters?

Are they ever going to get here? Do they even exist?

These letters are fast becoming a joke, even this report looks like more rehashed nonsense!

The actual article is a lot longer than this.

Mandz said...

Rosie,
I see! Looks like I have missed lots!

Yes I read it thanks however it will be interesting to see what happens if it happens?

assasin said...

2345 has sickened me a lot in the dx with attitude, as well as bored the living daylights out of me relentlessly - if it is true she felt herself Godlike/narcissistic enough to deliver such a thing, it would befit character i think.

I think there would be an offence in delivery of that letter actually:-)

I never get angry on the net no matter what i read. Some think i do, they are wrong, its always 'passion' rather than anger. That letter i went ballistic at when i read it though, so for once i did get angry - livid even! :-)

Rosiepops said...

Assasin, contrary to popular belief this is exactly what I did at first, it wasn't until Kate and Gerry were actually charged that ironically I came to my conclusion that they were innocent and since then, there has been nothing that has made me rethink my position.

JANEGT said...

yes assasin

I was shaking with rage, and rosipops too as we both postted around same time. I had to go back and read again what I 'hought' I must have made a mistake on but no, 2345 was boasting he had personally delivered it and other poster mentioned they had too.....

Idle boasts?

I don't know. I would though wonder if gooing to a lawyer would cuase morre than a rupple on this???

It was so utterly crass and insensitive I really was like Rosipops said, apoplectic. Many of us were. It appears that person has absolutely no soul, no conscience, no worth. No life.

assasin said...

I can believe it Rosie. Anyone with sense did fluctations of thoughts in the beginning. My immediate thought was innocent, but angry, and oh here we go, kates been the madonna to the portugese, now they must paint her as the whore etc.

JANEGT said...

rosiepops
RE LETTERS/INTERVIEWS THISI LONDON 6 PM REPORT

You know I welome this in principe, but what really I do not like the smell of here is that in the same article, they mentin the taxi driver, knowing the times conflict with pevious statement with jane tanner, russel obrien and co.........

Last night we debated the reliability or otherwise of this taxi driver's statement, given his son was in the police, yet he was not 'taken seriously' so I am worried that linking these 2 stores is deliberately causing a conflict of interest.

A few of us last night thought it could be a frame up.....

I now think it even more so.

assasin said...

mandz, cant remember them all cos i hit a few of the 'get her banned' campaigns lol

muse, assassin, wolverine, mcspin, barabus, lost track now

i posted a lot on child abuse and exploitation and abductor patterns and behaviours, but i dont remember posting any links.:-)

Rosiepops said...

Assasin, Mandz and Jane,

i read this by 2345 today and I must say it really made me laugh and the incredulity of it!

I think she should practice what she preaches!

Hasn't it beeb 2345 that has constantly presented news paper reports and PJ leaks as facts?

2345 said...
Anonymous,

Always check your source before repeating unfounded gossip. 11.35 a.m.
Thursday, February 28, 2008 3:34:00 AM PST

Rosiepops said...

Dixie,

This subject is now closed.

If you have anything to add the debate, you are welcome.

elaine said...

hello everybody... as to these letters, I have checked alsabella's blog and a similar article to the evening standard's is printed in the Portuguese press. So I would imagine they wish to talk to those members of the group who could have seen something or who checked on the McCann children that night. Maybe the accounts were off by a couple of minutes ... and the Portuguese police see something sinister in this ... talk about clutching at straws and honestly I think this is what the case the P.J. have is ... nothing but hot air and clutching at straws. When they regard the words "they've taken her" as sinister not just colloquialism, then it just shows difference in language causing problems.

I did read some of the comments on the site, because that is the only way we will be able to see the Portuguese news .. such as it is ... goodness such delicate little souls are GinaM and Bee. Bee is in tears apparently after being on this site .. which leads me to believe that Bee is some small child who is not taught in the school of hard knocks. To be in tears about a cyber comment is actually quite pathetic. I think we are dealing with kindergarten students here!!

JANEGT said...

dixie

If you are still reading - who is Janet who was commenting distastefully re another poster?

I would like to know.

Enlighten me please.

I know you will be reading this. I do not know of any Janet on here who has miscalled or blamed another without cause.

I would appreciate your help with this question.

Thank you.
J A N E

Mandz said...

Thanks assasin!
I thought it was you that posted the link!

JANEGT said...

PLEASE EXCUSE my 'allo 'allo keyboarding on my post re the letter to Mrs Healy.

I got mad all over again and my fingers became giant marrows causing slight problems with my new Tesco keyboard. My brain overtook my fingers. Unlike some blogs where the converse applies.

I am sorry - my lack of skill is being addressed.

Mandz said...

Hi Elaine!

Lovely to see you!

Why are people crying? Nothing was said and I wished GinaM all the best!

Anonymous said...

Dixie says

Rosiepops said...
Dixie,

This subject is now closed.

If you have anything to add the debate, you are welcome.

28 February 2008 18:18

No I don't think I have now, having just read what Elaine has posted it seems to me that you have no sympathy at all to anyone. I actually posted to Bee who seemed caring and genuine but it looks as if none of you seem to understand that a person can get very hurt if they are trying to be reasonable. No sorry not a place I will revisit and as you say subject CLOSED

elaine said...

anon ... use a real name if you want to be taken seriously not hide behind some computer screen. This is a forum for goodness sake .... if you or Bee or whoever is going to take offence and start crying then do something else with your time .. can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen. t

Rosiepops said...

Hi Elaine

I agree with your comments about the PJ, I think this is all about saving face for them now and I know this seems harsh but this is what I feel. I also feel that there is a lot more there than meets the eye and they saw an easy and sitting duck targets in Kate and Gerry, what they did not bargain on was the tough fightback they got from these parents and I think this shook the PJ.

re these letters I have just reached the stage now where I honestly think the PJ are playing stupid games with the parents, it is like drip drip torture, we are coming, we are here, we will be there soon, we are going to question all of you then not all you, we are going to question all 7 of the friends and then no, we are going to question 3 and see if we need to talk to anyone further after that. we are going to ask 40 questions, no it is 14 and then it is 100. We are going to ask for the diary, etc etc etc,see the pattern? It is psychological drip drip drip torture and I think it is getting absolutely ridiculous.

I don't know if you managed to read what HelenM wrote about the PJ the other day and I think she has a real point there. The Portuguese seem scared to criticizer the PJ, they are elite there and thus must not be questioned, it is almost like a police state.

I think the McCann's are innocent but they are going to have to prove it. it is just so wrong and inhumane.

Rosiepops said...

Anonymous

If you have nothing to add about the debate then feel free to post elsewhere.

assasin said...

As well as the times not fitting with the taxi driver, i have another question.

Is it common practise in portugal for people to take their kids out in their pyjamas?

If not...

How come nobody else say this child at the taxi rank out in her pyjamas?

Unless it is standard practise, surely the pyjamas must have been covered up, ie by a coat, so in that case, how come the taxi driver saw pink pyjamas when the bottoms are white with a floral design.

So, we have a nation that goes out in their pyjamas?
A blind taxi driver?
Or she was abducted/sleeping in the taxi with her eyes open

ETCETCETC

assasin said...

"it is like drip drip torture, we are coming, we are here..."

One word would have sufficed there.

Impotence lol!

elaine said...

Assassin ... if this taxi driver is anything like any other man he would no more remember what this child in his cab was wearing than fly to the moon. Maybe he did take some people in his taxi but I doubt very much it has anything to do with Madeleine. Any taxi driver I have ever used has hardly looked twice at me or anybody else in the cab. His story needs taking with a pinch of salt ... he is enjoying his five minutes of fame - is it just me or are an awful lot of Portuguese men chubby?

Teyman said...

Hi Rosie Thanks for earlier post explaining Kate's diary.

JANEGT said...

rosiepops 18.16 pot re 2345

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA
roflmao

check sources like the ffffffffforensics? that fffffsource? BEFORE you claim anything.

well, a lesson learned late. Prhaps 2345 will now join our blog. When can we start the vote on the 'most unpopular poster hre' please

do you do requests? ha ha ha ha ha


Seriously

If they want to interview 3 of the tapas 7, does that give them ''discretion'' to interview more than that - or will this mean more rogatory letters and months before a further visit?

I will have my pension by then......Or even worse....listening in spirit only.

yyyyaaaawwwwwnnnnn

assasin said...

His 5 minutes off or he will become a false witness perhaps...

Time will tell on him i think:-)

Rosiepops said...

Assasin

That is exactly what we were saying in our home today. You see four people with a child in pyjamas and no one else sees them all? Like it is way normal to walk around getting into taxis with a child in pyjamas? Being a nosy person i would be asking why the child was not dressed and taxi drivers are notorious for being nosey!

strange this report encompasses all three suspects, it seems to address the the point that I have been making for some time now and that there is nothing and no one come forward to put the McCann's anywhere where they should not be or acting suspiciously and hey presto up this comes. I think Alsabella has been talking to tubby again!

Also as this was reported right at the beginning of this investigation and it this is true then

1) Why didn't the PJ forensically test this cab?

2) Why did they ignore what could be a vital lead?

3) Why haven't they traced the Jeep type vehicle, Alsabella claims a couple of the friends either hired or borrowed?

4) Why wasn't the jeep forensically tested?

5) Doesn't Murat own such a vehicle?

6) Why would four people take a child out in pyjamas and get a taxi!

7) The time lines are completely up the wall, unless these people have mastered the art of being in two places at once!

If the PJ made this up it shows their level of competence because they could not even get this right and they messed this up just like they have messed everything else up about this case.

elaine said...

Yes Rosie, I think the P.J. are a much more sinister lot than we are used to ....I agree with you, once they started to suspect the McCanns, due to dubious evidence and not looking elsewhere, they had no choice to continue with this tack to save face. This so called forensic evidence they have ... its all rubbish I would stake my life on it, they tested certain items with certain theories and hey .... turned up inconclusive. spray up walls ... I bet that was a can of coke which somebody tried to clean up .. but a spray due suspicion for its pattern ... but that is not what it turned out to be, I would be money on it.

JANEGT said...

ha ha ha assasin

remember last night the taxi driver re Madeleine someone asked was she sleeping and you said. eh doh yeah that's how he noticed the coloboma in her righteye. Now was he blind? ha ha ha ha

this to me particularly after reading Rosiepops ref to This is London article re the letters on same article columns as the taxi driver's story causing the T9 times conflict brings us right back to the time 'frame' if you remember those posts last night? Mum 21 also posted and has done so again today on this story.

Nonsense!!!!!

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