An article from a couple of weeks ago (http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/leading-articles/leading-article-every-child-matters-793364.html) Not out of date, however!
Sunday, 9 March 2008
Ours is a Government that wants us to know how much it cares about children. For 10 years, we had higher child benefit, the end of child poverty, Sure Start, Early Years and free fruit. When Gordon Brown became Prime Minister nine months ago, the rhetorical effort was redoubled. Mr Brown, who has been known to declare that "children are 40 per cent of the population but 100 per cent of our future", even renamed the Department for Education the Department for Children.
Indeed, so all-encompassing has Labour's concern seemed that the charge of nanny-statism is often made. Our children seem to be tracked, tested and monitored to an unprecedented degree. And yet, for all these professions of concern, and for all this machinery of surveillance, the Government seems to be failing in its duty to the most vulnerable children – and in particular to the one group of children for whom it has the most direct responsibility, namely children in the care of the state. As we report today, local councils and the police are disorganised and confused in their response to the 900 children that go missing from residential care every year, 160 of whom are still missing at the end of the year.
This has long been a neglected corner of the welfare state, with some of the worst excesses of the past only now being excavated – literally so in Jersey, a separate jurisdiction but culturally part of the same British society. Matters are, we hope, not so bad now, but our investigation suggests that there is still much to do.
Nor is this the only example of the state failing in its duty of care for children in neglected and unlit institutions. The Independent on Sunday reported in December on the shocking level of violence inflicted on children in custody. The use of painful "restraint" in young offender institutions and secure training centres has been condemned by Professor Sir Al Aynsley-Green, the Children's Commissioner for England.
Of course, we do not pretend that nothing worthwhile has been achieved by this Government. Children generally are better off. This newspaper's concerns about the stresses of modern childhood, the fracturing of family life and the demonisation of some youngsters have been expressed against a background of rising hope and expectations.
We accept, too, that Alan Johnson, while he was Secretary of State for Education, did a great deal to raise the status of children in care as an issue across government. As an orphan himself, who owed his chances in life to the enlightened attitude of social services in allowing his teenage sister to look after him when his mother died, he has a personal stake in the subject.
Unfortunately, once again, words seem at least as important as actions; in this case, the replacement of one euphemism that had acquired negative connotations, "children in care", with another that means the same, "looked-after children". In time, unless the facts on the ground change, the new phrase will acquire the same unwanted associations as the old.
We also acknowledge that policy in this area has been increasingly complicated in recent years by, among other things, the increase in unaccompanied children seeking asylum. They are sometimes brought to this country by people traffickers, taken into care, and then disappear.
Our criticism of the Government on this issue is symbolised by the national child database, ContactPoint, a register of all the children in the country that is supposed to become operational later this year. This arose out of a Green Paper in 2003 called Every Child Matters, which sought to overhaul children's services after the death of Victoria ClimbiĆ©. There is a problem with this approach that no minister has been brave enough to confront, which is that every child does not matter – to the Government – as much as every other. There are some groups of children on whom the public authorities need to devote more attention than others. The promise of ContactPoint, of a comprehensive safety net of co-ordinated agencies through which no child can fall, cannot be realised for the entire child population of Britain. But it is a promise that could be kept for specific groups that are known to be at risk: looked-after children, children in custody, the children of asylum-seekers and children who may be being taken out of the country for forced marriages.
It is only by focusing on the most vulnerable that the grandiose rhetoric of a child-friendly society can be matched by actions. Instead of constructing a database of every child in the country that is expensive and time consuming to operate and keep secure, the Government could be devoting a tiny part of those resources to ensuring a consistent national response to known categories of vulnerable children who go missing.
Still Missing ~ Still Missed ~ Still searching. Anyone who thinks they have any information please see contact details below. The Portuguese police cordinater Goncalo Amaral, has repeatedly frustrated the search for Madeleine. Mr Amaral has already been found guilty of concealing evidence of torture in the case of another missing child, is also facing a raft of other charges, he is due to appear in court for libel and defamation of Madeleine's parents, Drs Kate & Gerry McCann.
Wednesday 26 March 2008
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371 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 371 of 371Just going to have a read back and see what has been happening since this afternoon.
By the way I just made two posts on Alsabella's and asked her not to send people like Arepa to do her bidding for her and invited her to come herself and post under her own ID NOT Anonymous/Marla.
Muldoon always had fights with Rosipoz on the DX (not our Rosipops) myself and Alroy and when she mentioned she used the Maddie photo the penny dropped and she was going for Rosiepops today like she had a grudge. Dim cow thinks Rosipops is Rosipoz...
See you later I hope ST, we love it when you drop in x
Christabel had a good run, one of those days when everything went off OK, but my meeting this afternoon was fine. I thought we made great speed with the visitors, who were very impressed!
I've just done a Tinkz and been waiting for comments on the other page (comments 1-200). I laughed at Tinks for doing that - take revenge Tinks, I deserve it!
Rosie,
yes I thought so too.
Good day all round, see you later.
Hiya Christabel
How ya doing?
Sass, lol, I've been sitting with you, you just didn't know it!
Hey Christabel,
Good to see you!
Hi Sass,
fine thanks,and you I hope.
Whats been happening then ?
Mandz
Is that right? Can't Muldoon read properly?
I find it strange we had a visit from Arepa who was sent by Alsabella to give us all what for AND we had a visit from Muldoon who has been in hiding since she/he apparently wrecked Viles blog!
Does anyone see the similarities in lunacy between Arepa and Muldoon?
Strange company Alsabella keeps.
Hi Tinks,
ya nana,
bet Helen will be pleased I just missed the 201 slot lol !
Just having my curry back soon
Did you both enjoy your long stand?!!! (Tinks Sass)!!!
Right my work is done!!!
Have a good one...
Christabel
What's not been happening would be easier to answer!
Job done well Mandz!
See ya tomorra - enjoy the rest of your evening xx
See ya Mandz!
x
Sass,
shouldn't I have asked ? lol.
See ya Mandz.
Christabel
We had a total nutter on here. Completely insulting.
x
Sass,
no change there then?lol.
Good article today though!
Mandz, your post at 10.29am, included this, which is very relevant............
The Times:
Child protection campaigners have alleged that a culture of corruption and complacency in Portugal is allowing such kidnappings to continue unabated. The founder of the Switzerland-based group Innocence in Danger has said she had tried to set up an office in Portugal but it gave up because of the reluctance of the authorities.
Homayra Sellier said after Madeleine's dissappearance last week that Portugal is a country in which “the corruption has gone so high that there's nothing we can do”.
“The fact that the girl (Madeleine) was kidnapped from her bed shows how bad things are.”
Well, that speaks volumes.
Christabel
Glad you liked it! Not always easy to find something appropriate now with the total lack of news!
Hi there everyone, so whats with this Arepa and Mulddon business, have look back a few posts but can't see anything about hi/her? Seems to have been going on for a long time though!
Doby
Hi there
Was just looking at the posts (they are e-mailed to us) and didn't realise how much Arepa had actually written. There were a lot of posts I didn't see.
Arepa is an anti who came over here. It started off OK but she went ballistic, so all her comments have been deleted. She got really insulting to some people here. Even people on Arsabliar's blog are saying she went too far.
Rosie she was always a dim cow. She posted on Alsa site today and spoke of you and me from the DX days like she new us and I did mention this today to China. I asked her who she posted under on the DX and she said same name however used a Maddie photo! The penny dropped then there was only one nut who used the photo (maddie in a red dress) and when she was constantly going for you I did start to think she could be the nut who got banned from the DX due to being abusive towards Rosipoz, myself and Alroy! Then Muldoon turned up? Odd and when ST mentioned him again the penny dropped I’m sure they are “one” and have a grudge with Rosipoz myself and Alroy! Funny how she kept going for you she always did that to Rosipoz – The posts are the exact same word for word. Alroy will remember her we argued late on saturday nights with the nut!
Hope she is off to Brat Camp…
Bye.....
CHINADOLL.
Interesting article from the Times Chinadoll, just shows the hidden corruption in Portugal and how it's all swept under the carpet. No doubt they would have hidden Madeleines disappearance if it hadn't had so much publicity, thanks to G & K. As a result the PJ decided to turn the screws on the parents using them as scape goats. Talk about incompetence!
Doby,
They have all been deleted, that's why and rightly so.
That particular individual, has a deep hatred of anything McCann.
The posts, gradually deteriorated (not in quality, because the content was not worth mentioning)
but, in insults and depraved comments. One particular sexual comment involved teenage activities with sheep.
She then moved on to insulting individual posters and making direct libellous comments about the McCanns
Need I say anymore?
Glad you were not around to read them Doby - some depraved and sad individual that was.
Good morning to you all.
Glad to see that an arrest has been made in Mari Luz case. I suspected that it was a paedophile abduction, even when it said that there was no abuse. I even posted this on here.
That man and his family need to be locked up for a very long time. (Assuming that they are of course guilty). Once again, one wonders at just how the court system (and this applies to many countries) gives such lenient sentences to paedophiles. They get out and then commit the crime again, often with tragic results as in the case of Mari Luz.
Had he been given very lengthy sentenced and other appropriate monitoring than Mari Luz would still be alive.
And note to those that call us racist. This is not Spain's problem. The same problem is in UK, US, Aust and most other countries. We dont have enough prison space to hold all these offenders and do not have the appropriate monitoring facilities after they are released. It has happened here before that the paedophile has been released and then killed later on.
Disgraceful.
Hi & Bye China!
It says it all.....Frightening really really frightening this has been allowed to go on.
Doby,
Thanks, Mandz posted it this morning and I really felt it spoke volumes.
It rather looks like the tourist industry must be protected at all costs, which leads us back to todays article - you have to admit to having a problem in order to tackle it.
Portugal is not a perfect country, no country is. Portuguese parents are not all perfect, any more than any parents are.
Goodnight Mandz,
& take care.
Looks like my post disappeared - maybe I pressed the wrong button, so I ask again
Did I read something about the Mc's takinf libel action against bloggers?
Hi there Mandz, how ya doin?
Looks like I may have missed you mandz, never mind will try again some time.
Diane,
Well said, as usual.
That gets me too.
I have never been to Portugal, but have heard it is a lovely country with a very hospitable population.
Surely, if nothing else, this case has demonstrated that they need to get up to date with their systems., ie sex offenders register, dna database etc etc.
I have a lot of gripes with the EEC, but feel that the huge amount of funds paid into same by the taxpayer, should be put towards such systems and assist those countries that do not have them to get up to scratch.
I realise that it appears to be virtually impossible to stop the activites of these sick individuals, but surely, everything possible should be done to hinder same and when that fails, to detect and successfully prosecute.
Bolshy,
Why don't you go visit their blog and ask them directly?
Hope you are here to debate in a civilised manner.
As we all know i dont share alot in common with the posters on this blog,but i must say that the picture at the top of todays article is one of the most beautiful i have seen of this little child.
Thanks Isis,
Sassy & Co., really have done a wonderful job with this site.
Hope you are well.
I have never known you to be offensive and am sure you are welcome to post here anytime.
Take care.
China - Hiya
Very good points, which I feel should be adopted throughout the EEC. However Portugal doesn't have a problem with sex-offenders or the likes!!!
Disappointing football results.
France 1 England 0
Archer,
Exactly, see my post at 21.39.
Its ok China, it was only a friendly! At least Becks got his 100th cap - so deserved :-)
Chinadoll
I asked a civilised question in a civilised manner, but it seems to have gone over your heads!
Chinadoll and Isis
The picture at the top of the blog was put there by Rosie - I can't take credit for it!
It really is a lovely picture though.
Bolshy,
Sorry, but I am no more privvy to what the McCanns intend to do, than you are or anyone else here for that matter.
I personally, think their priority remains to be that of finding their daughter - and I for one, would like to think that everything possible is being done to assist them in that endeavour.
Hi there Chinadoll, you are right, glad I wasn't around to read his/her filth. Sounds like a real evil so and so.
Hey Doby,
The thing even used a photo of Gerry in an electric chair as its Avatar. I think Melbel was around at the time, I hope she wasn't upset. Unfortunately only Sass was around to deal with the deleting, I was still at work.
Still hopefully, good riddance to bad rubbish.
Doby,
The main thing is, you are here now and we can hopefully debate, as we usually do, in a civilised manner, without distraction (wishful thinking perhaps)
Football has just finished, so hopefully, the others will be back soon.
Hope you are keeping well.
Thanks for clarifying that Sassy,
I did say Sassy & Co.,
Thanks Rosiepops for a beautiful picture.
Doby
I ended up moderating comments to give myself a chance to block comments coming in by Arepa and to delete the ones already here!
They were coming in thick and fast!
Chinadoll.
Thanks for telling me the result of the match, was about to go and watch it on TV at half past 10, but that wont stop me as I shall watch it anyway, want to see how Englad have performed with David Beckham back in the team, or was he? I think it was Rosie who said earlier that France had been given a penalty so I had guessed the result anyway. Had a cup ot tea on my desk and have just had a sip, stone cold, serves me right for getting involved on this computer! You know who tells me I spend too much time on it anyway! Guess he's got a point!
China
I know you did. But as the picture at the top was the main topic I thought I'd give credit where it's due!
I have to say I am pleased with the way the blog has turned out. It seemed like an impossible task to start with.
Always on the look out for pictures, by the way, so if anyone sees any nice ones - in their family photo albums, oh whoops I slipped up - I mean on the Internet, then please let me know!
Good Evening Ladies,
I see we have had a new visitor today. I am sure you all dealt with her very well. I don't understand why Alsa puts up with comments like that on her blog. But that is up to her. Perhaps she does not take the same pride in her blog as we do ours.
Hi Mum
I hope you are well?
Pride indeed, compassion too. That's just the tip of the ice-berg that the good people here have!
Hellow Tinks and Sassy, nice to hear from you but as i didn't see the actual match, don't have Sky, I'm off to watch the highlights on BBC1. Can't believe what you were saying about this S..t head, pardon the language. These, (I was going to say animals but that would be insulting to animals) are obviously coming on here to cause trouble. Psychopaths on the rampage with nothing better to do with their time, probably let them out of the asylum for a day or two's parole before freeing them, they let mentally deranged out these days I believe, even the violent ones, what a mess this country is becoming!
China
Work has been interfering again.
It is not just the EU, it is the same the world over.
But here, it seems to be that if the child is not physically harmed through violence, there tends to be much lesser sentences. Someone who molests a child can get the same sentence as a car thief.
And then there is the early release. Of course the offender is sorry when they are in prison, they got caught didnt they. And of course they are going to say that they wont do it again. But hey, if they have done it once, they are likely to do it again, particularly if the penalties are not harsh.
The other side is that if the penalties are too harsh, then the children are often killed to protect the offender, to make sure the offender cant be found.
I dont know what the answer is but I feel sure that whatever we have at the moment, including the attitudes of the judges during sentencing, is not it.
Thanks China.
Hello Mum21 and Archer, sorry I missed you out, didn't know you were on board, not scrolled back just lately. But must go now and watch this famous English team of ours, back to normal!
On Arepa, if she had a photo of Gerry that had been photoshopped, do you think that he/she was the one that was publishing the doctored photos around the pool, the last photo of Madeleine that her parents had.
Remember that someone removed Madeleine from the photo and then tried to tell everyone that the McCanns had doctored the photo originally to put her in.
Absolute rot it was. I also thought some of the other photos were doctored to, that were also being splashed around on the web. It was just another smear campaign and one that cant be blamed on the DX.
Hiya Mum21
Yup it certainly has been an "exciting" day!
Doby - enjoy the footie. The only footie I enjoy is with mum and dad's dog. That's fun - the real thing is dead boring!!!
Hello to you as well Isis, and goodnight, sorry to be so rude!
Hi Mum, Bye Doby!
I agree Diane,
We will never put the world to rights, but as a member of the EEC, I cannot understand how we are regulated as to the the size and shape of a banana and other such claptrap, but do not have consistency in other, far more important areas.
We should be working together, to collectively make life tougher for these vile creatures to operate.
No problem Isis and I meant it.
Doby,
Really R.....eally sorry about my big mouth and the football results.
Was not thinking urgh
Hello Mum21,
I am quietly confident that Alsabella will have something to say to that particular poster.
I wish I could send her copies of what she posted here, but I do not have them.
Trouble is, if she did not see them, then she will not know the content of what was posted.
China
I have a copy of every post she made, but if I posted them they wouldn't even be read.
Off now!
See you tomorrow I hope!
Sassy,
email them to me please.
Evening all
Not stopping, as have an early start tomorrow, but hope you are all ok.
Just to say,I am fine thanks,Tinks, but have long held, that many of these antis, are disturbed individuals.
You have to be, to post for months,making accusations, without evidence and being consumed with so much hatred,against someone you do not know.
I had wondered if it was the evil Buddha [not],but am not familiar with many of them, from DE.
Just looked in to other site and remembered, that the guy who invented this relevant dna profiling,is a Brit and was on tv, a good while ago,to say that he would appear in Court for McCs,if it came to it,as evidence untrustworty,as being used.
Typical,,old twit, I have forgotten his name already.
Goodnight Sassy,
Hope you are settled back in at home.
Holidays and family visits are lovely, but there is no place like home.
I'm back oops late though lol
Christabel
ha ha ha I got 201 comment tonight.
MANDZ
YES NOW YOU MENTION IT, MULDOON FITS THAT PICTURE TOO AS FAR AS i REMEMBER. DEFINITELY. PICTURES AND PHRASEOLOGY FITS EXACTLY. I thought they were banned.......
HOW SAD.
chinadoll
all your fault
had a sudden 'need' for a chinese meal for some odd reason?????. phoned restaurant, didn't have menu, so they had to read it all out for me. took ages. Deliverred, half eaten, back on here. ohhhhhh. lovely.
Now, where are we?
Any more thickos here to disrupt coz they picked the wrong blog.
oh good evening all, sorry I don't quite know who is here and who is Not, not even sure about me, but HELLO AND GOOD EVENING.,;O);O);O)
Rosiepops,
Hope you enjoyed the curry.
Doubt you enjoyed the football!!
Bolshy came on, but did not stay to chat. I must change my deoderant lol
Arepa and Muldoon are the same and Muldoon is the person that went wild on Vile's blog one night and his/her posts were of a graphic sexual nature.
Why does Alsabliar tolerate this person on her blog? Why send him/her over here to do her work for her?
Jane,
Well I feel sorry for the Chinese Restaurant, having to read out the whole menu to you and you say eh eh? Sorry missed that, could you repeat it lol.
Don't you go blaming me for wanting a chinese. We had a deep pan chilli con carne pizza with extra cheese on top - delivered, of course - he always suggest it when the football is on, think he does not want to sit in the dining room, with the candles and the log fire on, when it does not suit him.
How are the carry on camping brigade ?
China
I managed to eat more of it than I thought I would and it was nice, but prefer to make my own. No I didn't enjoy the football, it wasn't on the TV I do not subscribe to Sky as it really annoys me that we are being forced to pay to watch out national side! If people are serious about wanting more national pride they can start by televising out national sides when they play footie, cricket, rugby etc. I was listening to it on 5 Live but it was dreadful.
I'm off too, night everyone, it gets to that certain time and no matter how hard I try, I just cant stop the eyes from shutting.
See you tomorrow xx
Oh dear, Rosie
You are asked to keep your filthy paws,out of Als's blog.The empress has returned.
Sir Alec Jeffreys was, apparently the inventor of dna finger printing.
Well, night all. All the best x mel
Chinadoll
I am still here.... reading all your posts!
Rosiepops,
Hold on, Alsabella, may not know, any more than Viv did, that this sad individual is so unhinged.
If he posted on Vivs site as Mulroon, or whatever and then switched accounts and went to offer his support to Alsabella, that does not make a conspiracy.
I think we should all have a little constraint here.
There are many troublemakers around, just floating and looking for a thrill.
melbel, tinkerbell
SORRY YOU ARE OFF,
GOOD NIGHT SLEEP WELL
Goodnight Tinks and Melbel,
Sleep Well.
chinadoll
history shows this
love Jane
Sorry Bolshy,
Just noticed you there.
I think I am pretty sure I remember you and your famouos avatar on the DX.
Am I right?
China
I wish I had your confidence in Alsabella, I would think that many people read the comments of Arepa as she advertised the fact that she was coming on here to take us all on before she came and some have actually mentioned her conduct to her.
Fact is that Alsabella already knows what this poster is like she went ballistic on their blog last week and has for a while now been making ridiculous posts and Alsabella has allowed it.
However, if any of us go on there to defend ourselves or clarify a point, we are deleted instantly.
So I have no faith in Alsabella at all. In many ways the conversation between her and Claudia probably spurs this poster on.
(That's when the are not making post after post after post to each other in Portuguese!)
Chinadoll
Yes if you are talking about the red thong - It's me;-)
Melbel
At least I have the courage to post under my own ID and not under Anonymous/Marla!
I went there to ask her to keep Arepa from coming here, we do not want her and I felt she should know what filth her regular poster had been posting.
China, you see this is why I have absolutely no faith in Alsabella at all!
Rosiepops,
I hear what you say, but will reserve judgement.
I have asked Sassy to email me the deleted posts. I intend to seek Alsabellas view on same, but not during rush hour traffic.
I will see what response I get and I will then, delete my own posts.
Only then, will I truly know.
China has email
I am confused here.....we all know rosiepops had many pseudonyms one of which was rosiepoz - given by others for her not by her as she only posts as herself - but we all knew that was not her. Why why Why has this come up yet again....unless the poster that called her that, trying to mix things is back again.
MMMMMM
wonder
reborn MMMMMM perhaps
yes indeed
Bolshy,
Hope life is treating you and yours well.
I remember having a few late night chats with you and they were quite
pleasant.
Never any nastiness or make believe.
Hope that is an accurate view. lol
Bolshy.
You are also at the same time slagging us off on your friends blog.
You hypocrite!
Thanks Jane, got it.
Peas in a pod pet.
lovelyfinised Chinese delicious
I will regret this tomorrow I never eat as late as this.....
Now what's been happenig read back........
A knows exactly who and what posts on her blog.
She also knows the multiple id's of some as do we. Don't doubt we are correct in who we think or know arepa is. or I should sa, are. No doubts.
You can fool some of the people some of the time.
but not us.
Have just been reading Alsabliar's blog and apparently we are all to blame for taking advantage and disrupting her blog. Oh and by the wau we are all loonies and dog so here!
And we are the ones that insult?
yeah right of course Alsabliar (waves at Alsabliar)
That should read Dog do.
(This is when we are not tarts and highway whores of course!)
Mum
That's correct, they come here, they get treated fairly, then go back and become a different person on that blog and then they wonder why when they come back they do not get welcomed back again, it is totally pathetic.
Doggie do !!!!!!
What a terribly imaginative insult!! That shows someone has a tremendous use of the English language. Must have taken them a long time to think that one up.
Should have asked LGC for a bit of help, or maybe asked the Dewsbury goat, or the parrot. On second thought, probably did ask the goat for his input, it is such a witty comment.
Well Mum and Rosie,
Seems I am not in touch, enough, with the other blogs. It just seems daft and outlandish and outright childish to leave such a schoolgirl trail?
Totally bewildered.
Rosie
They think they are not treated fairly on here. But if they come on with opposing views, expect to be fired upon. Dont think that anyone on here will change their views, or agree. The visitor must make a valid argument and they just dont seem able to to do it. Never able to provide any supporting evidence to prove any guilt. So of course, get hammered by the regulars. Then they get upset.
Come on here and be abusive, you get deleted.
Simple as that.
Hi Diane
yep sure dies sound like one of LGC's such wit, such repertoire!
Apparently LGC used to write for the BBC! Well that explains why nearly everyone thinks the BBC is wasting our money!
I am sorry but that is one wild claim too far!
DIANE
100%
RIGHT
AND HOW
;O))
China
here is one post that I read a while ago
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
lizzy said...
Alsabella,
I think they are very sad people, their blog is clearly so boring they come here to disrupt yours, there is only about 5 of them on that blog no wonder, they are so rude and unpleasant. They are probably jealous of your blogs success.They do the same on Viv's blog, you are a threat to them.
Lizzy
26 March 2008 23:11
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think dizzy Lizzy should go and brush up on her mental arithmetic. she clearly cannot count and that day that I am jealous of that hate filled ranting column will be the day I delete this blog!
diane
LAST NIGHT I HAD POPPED OFF AND COULD NOT FOR THE LIFE OF ME UNDERSTAND ALL THESE REFERENCES TO A 'GOAT' .....
I READ BACK, NONE THE WISER.
EVENTUALLY I HAD TO SCROLL BACK THE WHOLE DAY PRACTICALLY UNTIL IT EVENTUALLY DAWNED ON ME WHAT HAD HAPPENED.
WHAT A HOOOOOOT. REALLY GOOD. Once I understood it all, it was very funny. Reading on and off, I was totally confused and bewildered.
so what's new you all scream
yes indeed.
That is another issue
I try to take the personal out of it and look at it in a different light.
Leaders have packs - simple.
Oh and Dizzy Lizzy (waves)
We do not go one Vile's blog, does anyone?
I very rarely even look in there.
By the way Lizzy, if we are so boring on this blog why have you added me into your favourites and keep tabs on when I am posting and when I am absent? My whereabouts seems to fascinate you, but don't worry one day very soon you will all know all about it, not long now.
Diane
I wasn't around today, only looked in briefly, saw what was happening ad decided to delete the posts as they came in but I couldn't stay on long.
Will be off for a while tomorrow too but hopefully, I will get back earlier than today.
Is the weather still hot out there or has it cooled a little?
Well Ladies,
I have read all todays comments on here....and all todays comments on the other blog.
Now my eyes are very tired.
So I will say good night to you all...and God Bless.
May tomorrow bring us closer to finding little Madeleine.
China
I understand what you are saying and normally i just totally ignore them but sometimes I think they have to be told, or they just get worse and even more outlandish with their lies and half truths.
MUM21
good night to you sorry I was not here to speak much tonight. was dotting about, better luck next time.
sleep well sweet dreams
Mum
Goodnight, will not be too long behind you I have had a very tiring but productive day, same thing tomorrow I hope.
You have a good sleep and take care see you tomorrow evening xxx
Hopefully very soon we will hear something positive about this tragic situation, although the best news would be that this poor little child is found alive and returned to her loving parents and family.
CHINADOLL, ROSIEPOPS, MUM21
eyes closing.
got to go now. I have out stayed my welcome, in my own home. huh. that 's rich.
suddenly feel exhausted.
I will catch up tomorrow and catch up with posts then ......
take care all, sleep well, pleasant thoughts,
see you tomorrow or when you are next on.
to anyone here I have not mntioned, good night to you too of course. Bless........x
China, Jane and Diane
Going off now, very tired.
I wish you China and Jane goodnight and Diane a good day.
Keep safe.
xxx God Bless Madeleine xxx
Rosie
It has cooled down significantly today, it will only by 19 Celsius that is. A very chilly 6 degrees overnight, I was a bit cold in bed. But had the kids wrapped up with their doonas, they were all toasty warm. I woke up about 4 am cold and we did have a rug on the bed but it wasnt warm enough. Went to get the doona off the floor only to find Cassie asleep in the middle of it. Must have been cold.
Its funny that we get accused of going onto A's blog and disrupting. Who do they think is coming over and disrupting this one? Silly things, they are. Or did one of us pretend to be that demented Arepa, fool that she is. I posted on the end of our blog yesterday about the rot on the A blog. Mindboggling to say the least that they can honestly believe what they write.
Fair enough Rosiepops,
I'm off now, duty calls.
Not complaining though.
What a nightmare to find yourself in as a parent. The pj have no other realistic suspect/s - Why? because they cocked up from day one so they target you.
What a dreadful mess.
Diane
Forgot to say if you bump into Calcite give her my love I keep missing her!
My little dog is called Cassie too! (cassie wassie woo woo)
I know what you mean about the garbage they speakm I think write it just for something to say.
Good night all xxx
Goodnight Rosie, Diane, Jane and Mum.
Got to crash now.
Godbless.
Good night and pleasant dreams to all of you.
Hopefully catch up tomorrow.
Good evening, everyone - you guys have had one busy day.
I took a peak at Arepa's avatar - not classy - not smart - disgusting - ignorant - ediotic - absolutely insane. A good candidate for Viv's blog - go find it girl.
Read on The Times today that Drs. McCann have requested they investigate the whereabout of this pedophile around the time Madeleine disappeared.
But I didn't think they had pedophiles in Portugal/Spain??
Hi Calcite
Seems not, but maybe that is just Portugal.
Sorry, should clarify - by they I meant the Spanish police.
What good is the government, the police, social services, or the schools, if the parents themselves do not take correct and loving care of their own children?
Child care begins at home. That simple.
If you are going to take the attitude that child care is everyone else's responsibility, then frankly, you may as well hand your babies into state care the moment they are born.
Obviously, state services are needed for downtrodden or underprivileged children who are not receiving adequate care at home. But that is completely different to the McCann case. The government have nothing at all to do with this case, and frankly, neither do the police. Why? Because as complicated as this case has now become, the original situation was incredibly simple. All it would have taken was basic care - don't leave such tiny kids on their own - stay in - get room service - get a babysitter (there were plenty available) - ANYTHING, but do not leave such tiny children on their own .. simple. There were no money issues, and a beautiful holiday complex that the whole family could easily have enjoyed. Absolutely no reason in the world for things to go so pear-shaped.
Perhaps the PJ have failed the McCanns in some way. I don't know. But then again, isn't it true that normally, under Portuguese law, the McCanns would have been formally charged with neglect by now? Obviously, they haven't been charged, so in that way, the PJ have done them a favour, wouldn't you say?
I had a cat once that gave birth in the linen closet. It wouldn't let anyone near it's kittens, and it wouldn't leave the kittens, even to have a meal. We, quite literally, had to bring the food into the closet for her, and even then she was edgy about having us so close to her babies. The protective instinct is strong in all creatures. Anything less than this instinct is evolutionary regression - goes against the laws of nature.
The Mccanns were called back once already to the hotel room as Madeleine, left on her own, had woken up and was crying and hotel staff and other guests had heard her. So why, WHY did the McCanns leave those kids on their own AGAIN?
Yes, the abductor is evil. Yes the abductor had no "right". But since when do abductors care about rights?? They don't care about what is right and wrong, and they don't care about your children! That is your job. And if you know these evil people exist (and most people over 10 are well and truly aware of them) then why aren't you busting a gut to keep your children safe from them?? What, do you expect the PREDATOR to mind your child, or to say "oops, the parents have obviously made a mistake leaving such tiny kids alone in an unlocked room, so I better not take them"?? Hardly! Why are you putting your child in a situation where a predator can so easily get to them in the first place??
I feel sorry for the McCanns as I know they must be seriously regretting their choices right now. But then again, they had plenty of chances not to make those choices, yet made them anyway. Even the Bible says "the lord helps those who help themselves" - in other words - yes, have faith in the good graces of others, but at some point, you have to take responsibility yourself. A child relies TOTALLY on their parents, and it is sinful not to honour that duty of care - a duty that has been of central importance to the human race since our primordial dawn.
Calcite
I thought it was a paedophile that took Mari Luz and it sounds as though she fell down the stairs at the house before they were able to molest her. When the autopsy said no molestation, I thought maybe she was accidentally smothered, or at least accidentally killed. My mum and I had a long talk about it and about how people dont really know how fragile little children are and so they are often accidentally killed when that was never the intent.
These people that killed Mari Luz, whether they meant it or not, are guilty of her death and as it was done while attempting to commit another crime, they may be up for very very heavy penalties. I hope that the book is thrown at them.
If they had left her alone, she would still be alive now. As I have been saying over and over, just because the opportunity is there, doesnt mean that they have to take it. Evil, sick, twisted people.
Bianca
I cant be bothered arguing with you except to say that it is blatantly false that the McCanns were called back to the apartment because Madeleine was crying. The woman who supposedly said that has since spoken directly to one of the British papers and said it was not true, that Madeleine had not been left to cry for hours, and that she had not heard her cry at all. And that she did NOT report any such thing.
I am frankly sick of comments like that being repeated as truth when it has clearly been denied publicly by the very person who was reported to have said it.
You think that what the McCanns did was child neglect and somehow that is worse than what the abductor did. No it isnt. The McCanns didnt deliberately place their daugher in danger, they thought she was safe. There was no guarantee that something would happen to her, there was a chance that it could. They made a very bad choice.
But the abductor is the truly guilty person and needs to be found. While blaming the parents might make people feel good, it isnt doing anything to help find the person who took Madeleine. All it does is excuse what the evil person did because it was the McCanns fault instead.
"If they had left her alone, she would still be alive now. As I have been saying over and over, just because the opportunity is there, doesnt mean that they have to take it. Evil, sick, twisted people - "
- Dianeh
=====================================
You are correct Dianeh. Just because the opportunity is there, doesn't mean they have to take it, of COURSE not .. but guess what ... THEY DO!! And they don't care!! AT ALL!!!
That's why it's important that the opportunity ISN'T there in the first place! And guess who's responsibility that is ... that's right ... the parents!!
DON'T GIVE THEM THE OPPORTUNITY!
These predators are filth. The lowest of the low! Which is why they don't make very good babysitters! And when you leave three children under 4, in an unlocked villa, in a foreign country, then essentially, you are making the pedophile the babysitter!
Even children themselves have instincts about their own care. This is why children all over the world fear "the dark", or "the bogey man". Children know - "I'm small" - "I'm vulnerable" - "I need protection" .. it is their instinct! "Bogey-man" is basically "child-killer", and children, bless their hearts, realise this! They WANT their mum and dad to protect them .. they understand how absolutely vital it is!
Madeleine would have been scared, even if a predator DIDN'T come into the room, to be left on her own in the dark. She would have been beside herself. But the fact that a predator DID come, well, I hate to imagine the fear of this child.
Imagine you were coming home from work on a dark night and waiting for your husband to pick you up from the train station. There are louts around, and threatening looking people. Time passes and passes, and your husband does not come. He has a car, petrol, money, and knows full-well you are waiting for him at the station, but still, he does not come. It's getting late and cold, so you now attempt to walk home on your own. As you are walking down a dark street, you are accosted and raped. When the rapist leaves you, beaten and bruised, you run to the police station, where your husband is called. When he arrives, you scream that you have been raped. He says "sorry", but that he just didn't feel like picking you up. He had every opportunity, but was too comfy in front of the TV eating his dinner, and simply didn't come! He thought you had money to come home (which, it turns out you didn't) and so, simply left you there at the station! He is very "sorry" but says it isn't his fault. "Oh no, that's okay" you say, now giving him a warm, appreciative hug, "it's the rapist's fault!"
Hello/olĆ” ,
os portugueses , em geral, estĆ£o-se a borrifar para a indĆŗstria do turismo , o que nos interessa efectivamente Ć© saber o que Ć© que aconteceu a uma pequenina inglesa que "desapareceu" enquanto estava ao cuidado,ou nĆ£o ( alegadamente jĆ” estaria morta), dos seus pais , pais estes que estavam num restaurante na copofonia com os amigos e isto Ć© uma FACTO,nĆ£o hĆ” como negar , ainda assim as pessoas que comentam neste blog preferem enfiar a cabeƧa , vazia , na areia . JĆ” dizia a minha avĆ³ : "nĆ£o hĆ” pior cego que aquele que nĆ£o quer ver "
as vossas cabeƧinhas sevem para quĆŖ ?Para criar piolhos ? pensem um bocadito , vĆ” lĆ” , nĆ£o custa nada ...mas provavĆ©lmente nĆ£o conseguem nem dizer o vosso nome 2 vezes seguidas sem se enganarem ...
NĆ£o percebem portuguĆŖs ? Temos pena ...:)
God Bless - Justice for Madeleine!
Ana
ana
you are on the wrong blog
go home
ah ah ah ....
Ana
This board only accepts comments written in English.
With regards to you saying that your grandmother used to say people stick their heads in the sand.
My grandmother used to say of people like you and your disgustingly inept Policia Judiciaria.
"That there is none so blind as those that will not see"
Now take this message home to Yuri PJ and to your government.
Stuff your tourist industry.
Stop blaming these parents for the disappearance of their daughter and get off your lazy backsides do some work, less three hour lunches and go an re start the search for Madeleine McCann.
Should the focus still be on searching for Madeline?
YES
Is there a possibility she is still alive?
YES
Should the PJ keep looking for her?
YES
Should the McCanns be made out of martyrs?
NO
Why not?
Because fundamentally, what they did was wrong! The whole world needs to learn from this - vitally important issues have been raised because of this case - attitudes toward child care, particularly among the English (McCanns, Scarlett Keeling, Shannon Matthews) need to be seriously revised.
Should the McCanns be tormented by the public at large?
NO. The time for (understandable) public backlash has passed. It is now time to move forward. The McCanns should be lectured by authorities, regularly visited by social services, and forced to make a heartfelt, public apology to Madeleine. They should also have a press conference to explain to the well-meaning members of the public why their hard-earned cash was used to help pay off their mortgage instead of going to the fund. The McCanns are always complaining that the PJ are not doing enough to help find Madeleine, and yet the money for JUST THIS PURPOSE, i.e., the fund money, was used on their mortgage. This needs to be explained.
Bianca
It is the rapists fault. No one deserves to be raped and it is no one else's fault and no else is even partly to blame. And the husband would still feel guilty even though it is not his fault.
Same as it is the abductor's fault for taking Madeleine.
Bianca ,
well said :)
And no one deserves to be left home alone....
ana
and who said they did?
that is axiomatic
odd how you can post in english yet antagonise in other language when you want to be aggressive.
now
POST OFF
Bianca
Do you have access to the financial records of the fund? NO, you do not.
You do not know if the fund paid their mortgage or not, and even if it did initially, that doesnt mean that it has not since been paid back. Also, the fund was set up to help find Madeleine. If that means helping her parents, so be it. The board is responsible for where the money is spent, or has this concept escaped you. If they chose to pay the mortgage or pay for the private investigator, it is up to them, not you and there is a deed that governs the conduct of the fund. The board works within the confines of that deed. The McCanns do not control the money.
Heard this over and over. Oh you forgot to say but it was misrepresented as a charity. Only to fools who cannot read. It was never a charity and the McCanns were under no obligation to set up a fund, governed by a deed.
DIANE
BLANCA. ANUS
ARE HERE TO DISRUPT...AGAIN
IGNORE.
THEY ARE ON WRONG BLOG AND HAVE LOST THEIR WAY. BIG TIME.
It doesn't work though....not on bit
now
post off
OFF TOPIC
Bianca
The fund was used to pay two mortgage payments, which I understand has been repaid back into the fund.
Now anyone with half a brain would understand when a tragedy like this hits a family, severe loss of work will ensue.
I donated to this fund knowing that they would not resume work and fully expected them to use the fund money for this sort of thing, what else would it have been used for at that time?
I do not gift money to someone and then tell them how to spend it.
This is just silly unfair nit picking, an argument born out of people with no argument at all and no real and proper defence of what they are saying.
By the way Gerry McCann took a few months UNPAID leave from his job, so you tell us how else this family Wald survive? Or would you have them worry about finances at a time they were all consumed with trying to find their daughter?
If Gerry did not take leave from his work he would have been wrong.
If he took paid leave from his job he would be wrong.
Seems to me they cannot every be right in your eyes Bianca.
Perhaps you may want to think about that?
Jane
Yes same old purile arguments that have no substance. Once again blaming the parents and excusing the abductor.
And that long winded rapist crap. NOTHING can ever excuse a rapist.
i was not agressive ,but i understand that , portuguese is not your native language ...only that my opinion is diferent , may be that is the point ...
one question :
in your opinion , where were the parents of madeleine when she vanished ?
DIANE
ABSOLUTELY! I AGREE WITH YOU.
SAME OLD SAME OLD SAME OLD ARGUMENT
LEAVE YOUR CAR ON ROAD, BASHED TO BITS BY TRUCK, IT'S CLEARLY *YOUR* FAULT FOR PARKING IT IN SAFE STREET....NOT!!!!
THE TRUCK THAT CRASHED INTO IT IS TOTALLY CULPABLE. NOT THAT THEY UNDERSTAND THAT, IF THEIR CARE, YES THEY WOULD, IF THEIR CHILD YES THEY WOULD MCCANNS = NO SYMPATHY JUST SPITE, HATE, BIGGOTRY, AND SMUG ARROGANCE. AND THAT IS THE MOST COMPLIMENTARY THINGS I CAN SAY ON HERE.
SH*TS.
ALL OF THEM
BLINKERED SH*TS.
One day when they are in extreme pain and everyone around them laughs, sneers and smirks they will understand,,,,,,they deserve all of it. what goes around comes around. That lot are going to hell. Not on a hand cart, by concorde. sooner the better.
Okay DianeH. And I suppose if you blindfold your child and let them walk across the street by themselves and they get hit by a car, it is the driver's fault?
Nobody else is even "partly to blame", not even you as the parent?
In other words, people can be as reckless, heartless, and slack as they please, and it is NEVER their fault - not even partly!
You don't have to do anything or accept any responsibility. And when it all goes pear-shaped, you simply blame the police. Or the government.
Isn't it funny. My father is a professional man - a very, very busy man, and yet he will happily drive miles to come and pick me up if I'm at the train station on my own and my husband has the car. He simply will not have me walking home on my own in the dark - and I am 33 years old!
I am simply gob-smacked by the idea that parents are happily excused for not taking even basic care of their own children, particularly such small children! The logic and rationale behind it is something I find totally and utterly alien.
I keep thinking that I can bring logic and humanity over to this side, but it just can't be done!
Ana - Thanks sweetheart :-)
"There is NEVER an excuse for Rape"
i totally agree with you , but how do you know she was raped ?
tell me ...
Ana
Why did you open your profile the same time as Alsabella set up her blog?
Up until tonight, you only used it 5 times and now here you are blogging away like there is no tomorrow.
you are not Alsabella/Claudia by any chance are you?
I am home darling :)
Bianca
You really dont get it. If I throw my child off a bridge, yes then I am guilty. If I starve my child I am guilty. If someone steals my child from me, they are guilty.
By your stupid reasoning, every parent who lost a child to drowning is guilty of negligence. Accidents happen, people make errors of judgement. People who are in a car crash would also be quilty of negligence by your reckoning.
How pathetic?
Dont post to me anymore, I wont be answering.
Ana
Not that I care what you think but the rape answer is in response to a ridiculous scenario that Bianca put up as an argument. Nothing to do with Madeleine at all.
ana aka all the other names.....&co
Clearly you are too young or too stupid to debate.
'she' raped....who do you think?
We are **not** talking about Madeleine if that is what you are implying nor any *specific* person. You do not understand at all. go home
Ana
i never said she was raped please read theposts properly BEFORE you comment.
Just like you to jump in without reading first.
Now please go home to your own blog.
bye bye.
DIANE
blanca and anus have been on today to cause trouble nothing more.
let them enjoy their playtime.
they are not genuine posters.
NOR DID THEY SUCCEED IN THEIR PLAYTIME GAME.
now girls post off
past your bedtime and mummy will be worried....not!!!!!
Then go home to the queen and get her to teach you.
I did not say your English was good (although it is better than my Portuguese)
Alsabella of the many IDs speaks in broken English when it suits her to do so.
Now run along, you are rumbled. (again)
What makes anyone think I am "excusing" the rapist??
NO NO NEVER!
But you see, my attitude toward anyone that would sink low enough to rape, is that they are basically reptilian, and so I think, who has the responsibility to the woman on her own at the train station - the reptile, or the husband who is supposed to love her? I don't expect the reptile to care. I expect the reptile to be out of control, unpredictable, sick and twisted. This is not EXCUSABLE, but this is what I expect. And I am right! But, however, I expect the HUSBAND to be loving, diligent, and protective. If he is not, if he just leaves you to the wilds, then is he any better than the rapist?
In a case like the hypothetical I proposed before, I think BOTH are to blame, and I think the rapist should be in JAIL and such a "husband" in DIVORCE COURT!
Rosie/Jane
I should have known better than to even answer. I have a lot of work to do, so will be off.
I will catch you tomorrow.
Sleep well.
night diane
don't feed the trolls
anus
yes
the aggressive person is you
this is not debating the article in point nor engaging any contributor here.
post off
What makes anyone think I am "excusing" the rapist??
NO NO NEVER!
But you see, my attitude toward anyone that would sink low enough to rape, is that they are basically reptilian, and so I think, who has the responsibility to the woman on her own at the train station - the reptile, or the husband who is supposed to love her? I don't expect the reptile to care. I expect the reptile to be out of control, unpredictable, sick and twisted. This is not EXCUSABLE, but this is what I expect. And I am right! But, however, I expect the HUSBAND to be loving, diligent, and protective. If he is not, if he just leaves you to the wilds, then is he any better than the rapist?
In a case like the hypothetical I proposed before, I think BOTH are to blame, and I think the rapist should be in JAIL and such a "husband" in DIVORCE COURT!
good night
not on topic
noone is listening to you
again.......
What makes anyone think I am "excusing" the rapist??
NO NO NEVER!
But you see, my attitude toward anyone that would sink low enough to rape, is that they are basically reptilian, and so I think, who has the responsibility to the woman on her own at the train station - the reptile, or the husband who is supposed to love her? I don't expect the reptile to care. I expect the reptile to be out of control, unpredictable, sick and twisted. This is not EXCUSABLE, but this is what I expect. And I am right! But, however, I expect the HUSBAND to be loving, diligent, and protective. If he is not, if he just leaves you to the wilds, then is he any better than the rapist?
In a case like the hypothetical I proposed before, I think BOTH are to blame, and I think the rapist should be in JAIL and such a "husband" in DIVORCE COURT!
A post by leigh3
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
leigh3 said...
DEAR SOULS WHOEVER YOU ARE.
Rosiepops is a thing; a mechanic; many employed poor people earning pennies to serve a media machine, led by media manipulators: Gerry McCann and Clarence Mitchell.
This is how it works; this is how it will end.
The McCann Machine of media manipulators thought they were more clever than the public who pay for the politics who bow to the Press when push comes to shove because it is always and only about you: the public.
Wake up. Speak up. Do not be anyone's servant, least of all those who take your money in taxes or fees.
I might wrong about that. You judge. It is your right and your money.
26 March 2008 22:07
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Leigh3 You are one cookie sick person.
Look up psychologist in the Yellow Pages - quickly.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And dizzy Lizzy
If I want to converse with someone and meet with someone could you tell me what it has got to do with you?
Why are you net stalking me, don't you realise these are the actions of a sick and feeble minded little person?
I am sure you could find something more constructive to do with your time than follow Christabel and I around all over the net hanging onto to our every word. Just how pathetic are you?
Seriously, you are becoming paranoid, perhaps some time ff from these blogs would do you the world of good? you do seem to be taking this a little too far and I think you are out of your comfort zone.
You really do not want to end up like poor sick Leigh, Vile, Alsabliar or Notdoc do you?
If yu showed your paranoid rantings and ravings to anyone close to you do you think they would be shocked?
I do, I think they would be very shocked, this is a good indicatin of how sick and paranid you are becoming.
Good night Jane and Diane
Off to where I should have gone ages ago.
Take care both
good night Bianca.
xxx God Bless Madeleine xxx
ana
you need your bed sweetie
in 3 lines
you made 3 errors.
you can't spell
you do not make sense
you have been told to go aWay
you cannot debate
you are aggressive
you are stupid
you just proved that yourself
now
POST OFF
blanca
you are the 'cult'
and thanks for that one liner
I will never forget.
You are ignorant beyond belief. Don't come here and try to pontificate your knowledge. You clearly do not have a clue how to use any you have or had. Totally irrelevant. Now
POST OFF.
Goodnight Ana, and goodnight Rosiepops.
God Bless Madeleine and missing and abused children everywhere xoxo
Jane, Diane, Rosie - you really got attacked by two of them tonight. What in all that is good is going on here?
Really, Rosie - IMHO, I would seriously consider banning them (if you can). All they are doing is upsetting the members of this blog. Let them go sign on to blogs where their attitudes/anger would be welcomed with open arms in Alsabella's and Viv's blogs.
I just don't like to see you guys getting worked up with the garbage they're spouting!!
Hi Everyone
Especially our lovely posters calcite and Diane
sorry but in order to protect the the site tonight we have had to switch moderate coments on.
you can still post, they just will not be visible until one of us gets to the site later on today.
Hope you understand xxx
Rosie
I was wondering whether you would turn moderation on. It did occur to me that these two posters that came for the late night visit (lunch time for me) might not be trusted.
And I thought you were tired. You stay up way too late.
Rosiepops - last comment - agree with it completely. Do whatever you feel is right - this blog is a decent blog and MUST be protected.
Do what you have to do - good night Rosie, Jane, Diane. You had a big battle tonight and you fought the battle with courage, conviction and patience. My hat off to you ladies (I who never, ever wears a hat).
One more thing about the mortgage payments - I remember when people on HYS at DE were upset with Dr. Gerry McCann for going back to work - they felt he was neglecting his search for Madeleine. They just could not win no matter what they did.
But obviously the two disruptive posters would not be reasoned with. I hope you find a way to ban them permanently.
What was wrong with the antis tonight?
Were they fed up with the compulsory 20 "Hail Alsabelias" on the other site?
Isn't it a hit the way they get aggressive pretty much straight away and then say we delete anyone who doesn't agree.
You only have to be civil to post here - it's not hard for normal people.
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