Below are some key questions taken from The Times 21st September 2007
It is interesting to note that virtually nothing has changed since then and "we are still awaiting the arrival of the PJ!" When Will the PJ arrive? Who knows, it has taken them 10 months to get this far (nowhere)
Why are the “Tapas 9” key to solving the Madeleine mystery?
Kate and Gerry McCann were dining with seven British friends at a tapas restaurant in the Ocean Club resort when Madeleine was reported missing. The friends are crucial witnesses but have said very little publicly. Police sources have claimed there are inconsistencies in their statements to officers. The friends are Matthew and Rachael Oldfield, Russell O’Brien and his partner Jane Tanner and David and Fiona Payne and her mother Dianne Webster.
Did any of them see anyone taking Madeleine?
Jane Tanner told police that she saw a man walking away from the McCanns’ apartment at 9.15pm. Sources close to the couple have previously said that the man had a child wrapped in the blanket and was walking in a southerly direction. However, the London Evening Standard reported yesterday that Ms Tanner had seen man carrying a girl dressed in Madeleine’s distinctive pink-and-white pyjamas walking eastwards, towards the house of the official suspect Robert Murat, 33.
Do police believe this was a man abducting Madeleine?
Detectives refused to publicise the sighting for three weeks. Another witness, Jeremy Wilkins, is reported to have told police that he was in the area talking to Mr McCann and did not see the mystery man.
Did anyone else in the Tapas 9 notice anything strange?
Matthew Oldfield said he had checked on the McCanns’ apartment at 9.30pm. A source close to the McCanns had said he did not look into the bedroom where Madeleine was sleeping with the two-year-old twins Sean and Amelie. But the Evening Standard report claimed he saw the twins but did not have a view of Madeleine’s bed.
Was there anything strange about the room after Madeleine disappeared?
Mrs McCann was sure Madeleine had been abducted because the bedroom window was open and the security shutter was forced open, a source close to the family has insisted. Tests on the shutter showed no sign of forced entry. However, another friend claimed yesterday that the shutter had been left open.
When will the Portuguese courts decide what to do in the Madeleine case?
Pedro Daniel dos Anjos Frias, a criminal instructional judge in Portimão, has decided that there is no need for the McCanns to be reinterviewed at this point, hence the prosecutor’s statement last night. The threat of them having to return to the Algarve in the near future has been lifted. The judge must complete his rulings by today on a variety of issues. It is believed that he has already authorised the use of Mrs McCann’s diaries as evidence.
Could the couple still be charged soon?
Unlikely. LuÍs Armando Bilro Verão, the lead public prosecutor, must now decide if there is sufficient evidence to bring charges against them, if he needs to request the PolÍcia Judiciária to carry out further investigations or if the case against them should be dropped.
Why is it all taking so long?
Portuguese detectives are still waiting for the results of tests on samples being carried out by the Forensic Science Service laboratory in Birmingham. They are also believed to want to carry out further searches in the Algarve and possibly at the McCanns’ home.
So how long will the McCanns have to wait?
The couple can remain as arguidos, or official suspects, for eight months before the Portuguese police have to apply for a four-month extension. After this time they automatically cease to be suspects, but there is no requirement for the prosecutor to clear them formally.
Robert Murat, a British self-employed property consultant on the Algarve and the only other official suspect in Madeleine’s disappearance, has been an arguido for four months.
Why has there been so much confusion?
Portugal’s strict laws of judicial secrecy mean that nobody involved in a criminal investigation is allowed to reveal any of the evidence in the case. However, Portuguese police sources are regularly quoted giving incriminating details about the McCanns’ role in their daughter’s disappearance. Friends of the couple have increasingly been attempting to challenge these reports with their own interpretation of events. Both sides are actually breaking the law and could face up to two years in jail.
Why are the McCann’s early television interviews being scrutinised?
Commentators have seized on the lack of emotion shown by Kate and Gerry McCann during a series of televised statements and interviews in the weeks after Madeleine’s disappearance. It is claimed that this was an unnatural response and indicated that the couple were hiding something. In fact, criminal profilers had advised them to display no overt emotion in case Madeleine’s abductor “got off" on the sight of her parents in obvious distress. Off camera, they were deeply distressed and received help from counsellors.
How can the police establish Mrs McCann’s state of mind?
Prosecutors are reported to want access to Mrs McCann’s medical records to see if there is any history of illness such as depression which could explain why she would kill Madeleine. They are also said to want British police to carry out investigations into the couple’s relationship and personal history.
Could Mrs McCann’s handwriting be used as evidence?
A judge has authorised police to seize Mrs McCann’s diary and detectives want a graphologist to study the handwriting, it was reported yesterday. Alberto Vaz da Silva, a criminal psychologist and a handwriting expert, told the newspaper 24 Horas: “It would be possible to discover the temper and the character of the person in question. You can see if someone is lying or hiding something.” However, handwriting evidence is usually used only for forensic science purposes, not to determine a person’s emotional state.
Why were the McCanns allowed to leave Portugal if they are suspects?
The Portuguese authorities allowed the McCanns to return to the UK after they agreed to reside only at their home in Rothley and to return for further questioning if necessary.
Portuguese law states that after someone is declared a suspect, police have eight months to conclude the investigation into that individual. If they require further time officers can apply to the courts for a four-month extension.
If the McCanns refused to comply with a request to return to the Algarve for interview, Portuguese police could issue a European Arrest Warrant under which extradition can be carried out within six weeks.
Why has it taken so long to find the evidence that could implicate Kate and Gerry McCann?
The material was only collected at the end of July and early August in a review of the investigation carried out by Portuguese detectives with the help of British police and two sniffer dogs. Many of the samples are very small, containing just a few cells, while others are of poor quality because of damage by cleaning or simply the passing of time.
A full report of the findings will not be ready for weeks, but many results have already been passed to the Portuguese authorities.
What evidence were police looking for?
Detectives are searching for any evidence that proves Madeleine is dead or contradicts the accounts of Mr and Mrs McCann and other witnesses.
What is the most important forensic evidence?
It appears the Forensic Science Service believes it has discovered compelling new evidence, possibly from more than one source. Portuguese detectives told Mrs McCann repeatedly that they found traces of Madeleine’s blood in a Renault Scenic hired three weeks after she disappeared, suggesting that the missing girl’s parents used the vehicle to carry her body. It is possible to tell if the blood came from a living person or from a corpse, and even the time of death. However, some reports suggest that the quality of the blood sample was too poor to confirm the origin while others have denied any blood was found in the vehicle and claim it was other “bodily fluids”. Unless a body had been placed in a freezer, it would have badly decomposed during the warm weather; leaving a mass of traces invisible to the human eye.
Does any trace of Madeleine in the hire car prove she was killed?
No. Mr and Mrs McCann hired the car to buy new clothes in the town of Portimão a day before they flew to Rome to see Pope Benedict XVI. They then used it regularly for family outings and to collect friends and relatives from Faro airport. They continued using the car until shortly before flying home yesterday. Kate and Gerry and their two-year-old twins would have often carried in the car items used by Madeleine. These items could easily certainly carry Madeleine’s hair and minute traces of skin, dried blood, saliva and vomit. The same could be said of the holiday apartments used by the McCanns and their friends in the Ocean Club resort. However, if the blood came from Madeleine’s corpse the only other highly unlikely explanation would be that a previous hirer had moved the body.
One report suggested yesterday that Madeleine’s DNA had been found on the floor of the McCanns holiday apartment, but because of degredation it was based on an incomplete picture, with only 15 of the 20 genetic markers usually used for such analysis.
What is the DNA evidence that has supposedly been found by the Portuguese investigators?
Newspapers in Portugal have been reporting that “biological fluids” with an 80 per cent match to Madeleine’s DNA have been found underneath upholstery in the boot of the McCanns’ rented Renault Scenic. Some media reports claimed that another DNA sample with a 100 per cent match to that of Madeleine’s profile had been found in the car.
What would this tell us?
Perhaps nothing. If it was sourced from something such as a hair follicle or skin cells then that could have been one of Madeleine’s hairs that had stuck to the clothes of a family member or her “cuddle cat” toy that her mother carries. If it was from Madeleine’s blood or corpse, that could be more significant. The most important issue is the size of the sample found. If there was a substantial amount of material it is unlikely to be from accidental contamination and would indicate that Madeleine had been in the car.
Can investigators establish if the DNA sample comes from someone who was alive or dead?
Unlikely, according to British experts. A DNA profile does not change just because someone dies. You can tell if DNA has degraded but that can happen if, for example, it had been exposed to sunshine.
Does an 80 per cent match with biological fluids indicate that Madeleine was definitely in the car?
No. The sample will have been tested against a definite sample of Madeleine’s. A 80 per cent match indicates that profilers could find only 16 of the 20 markers usually used for such analysis and suggests that the biological traces are tiny and degraded. Additionally, the twins Sean and Amelie could share a high percentage of DNA characteristics as most siblings do.
What complicates the matter further is that all three of the McCanns’ children were born through IVF and it is unknown whether the couple’s sperm and eggs were used for conception.
What about the discoveries of the “cadaver” sniffer dog?
Mr and Mrs McCann were shown a police video of a sniffer dog used to find corpses “going crazy” when it approached the hire car. Reports also claim that is discovered the scent on the vehicle’s key fob. Mrs McCann is reported to have explained that in her work as locum GP she came into contact with six corpses in the weeks leading up to Algarve holiday.
This seems a high number for a locum GP working just a couple of days a week but would be easy to check against surgery records.
The crucial difficulty with the sniffer dog “evidence” is that it cannot distinguish between corpses. This type of dog is trained to find bodies, not identify where dead bodies have been. Crucially, they can become excited by other scents.
Read the full length Article here
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2422967.ece
317 comments:
1 – 200 of 317 Newer› Newest»Morning all.
I read this detailed article,when it first came out and it seems that we are no further forward, except that there is no talk of forensic evidence now, so presumably it did not prove what the PJ hoped it would, since they have been free with their leaks when it suited them.
The information about windows, shutters, etc, seems to have come from initial possibly garbled telephone calls, relayed to family,while they were in a state of shock,so we are not in a position to have any of this information.
It is a poor do though, if the PJ have not even got this basic information sorted.If true, it is a disgrace.
I suspect the leaks suit the PJ though,as it all adds to the confusion and distracts from this chaotic investigation.
We hear from Rosie, that K and G did not do a runner from Portugal. It was highly planned and delayed.
The Mccs and friends,have stated that they are willing to go back.
The PJ seem to have had trouble, in my view, getting their questions past the Portugese Judge.
Nearly a year has gone by and no PJ in sight, unless it is being kept quiet.
I really fail to see why the pJ have not got these timescales
tied up and do not simply ask the questions.
It is sheer agony for the family,to be kept on a string like this.
I know little about policing, but this is surely Police cadet stuff, to interview a few witnesses and get the tale straight.
Why all this need to spin, leak and confuse the picture on the part of the Portugese Police ?
I have cringed when fellow Brits have criticised foreign institutions, in the past.
It is the deliberate leaks, to discredit the family,that have done me,while banging on about the so called secrecy laws.
As for the dogs, brilliant though they are, it has been claimed that they were deliberately taken back to the hire car, when they had passed it.
On the British tv program with Trevor McDonald, they reacted to meat left in the car.
We know nothing, but what is in the alleged boxes of evidence, that the PJ hold, if they have not even got the initial work done.
There are bound to be some discrepancies in statements, in all the confusion. After all, a child was stolen from her bed.
The PJ look very incompetent indeed and it is all down to the leaks, in my view, which did not have the desired effect, as far as the PJ were concerned, as the Mccs did not crack and it has made the PJ look amateurish and very foolish.
As for the waiter, who claims that ? Jane tanner, never left the table, it is ridiculous.
How could a waiter monitor people'sbehaviour, in such a one to one way?Did he not have enough to do ?
I have never seen waiters behave like that or make such claims.
Did he follow her in to the Toilet ?
It beggars belief.
Apparently, the bar was crowded, as I read that it cleared when word of Madeleine's disappearance came in.
Evidently, the Mcs and friends were not the only ones to be watching their children, in this way.
What I hope does not happen, is that the legal deadline is reached and the arguido status is lifted,but they are not officially cleared.
This would be cowardly and despicable, if there is no evidence and I believe that the British people would back them all the way to the European Court, in view of this human rights violation.
Get on with it PJ.Ask your questions and have done.The world is watching you.
Hi Melbel
Totally agree with your post.
When read the situation as posted in the article, one has to wonder at how the anti's justify their position that K & G somehow harmed Madeleine and disposed of her body.
For eg, they keep insisting there is DNA evidence. If there was, the PJ would not have been so tardy in reinterviewing.
Another eg, the dogs. Yet in this article it again shows that there is doubt over the validity of the dog's findings. They can show indications but they can also show false positives. I have previously posted an article about a Dutch case, where there is proof that the dogs were wrong 75% of the time, indicating that a body existed where it didnt.
Another eg, the way the McCanns acted. I have pointed them to Lindy Chamberlain case but the anti's will not read about it. Lindy showed no emotion at all. But privately she sat up all night crying. And it was even worse than that, the media would cut away from Lindy if she was crying and show close up of Michael instead. Manipulation by the media, sound familiar.
Yes Melbel, you have posted very well and made many good points.
Hi Dianeh
The case is looking really hollow,reading between the lines.
People are so ready to rush in, with kneejerk reactions, based on their amateur interpretations of other people's body language, even though experts were advising the Mccs.
I cannot see that people can write as if they can say that the parents are guilty and as if they have no doubts.
The rot set in with me, when the PJ began these daily leaks and overplayed their hand.
I am convinced that many are phantasists.
Docmac said that his mother was the first woman to qualify from Edinburgh Uni,as a doctor and that she worked as a GP,in Capetown, until her nineties.
Even an amateur like me, new to the computer can check this out.
The first woman was Margaret Ann Bulkley and died 150 years ago,as an Army medic.
She was the first woman to qualify as a medical doctor there, in 1812 and dressed as a man to become her alter ego, Dr James Barry
This was in DM online, on5th March,2008.
Why say this, when it can be checked ?
Why say that Madeleine was definitely dead, in the way he is supposed to have said this on, on 3 arguidos,[ which I never read] ?
Why, on Alsa' site, did he tell Swedish mum that there was no new news, after saying such a thing ?
I hope it gets checked out, anyway, as that is phantasy, gone way too far.
I did, as a matter of fact, write to a Police Force with concerns I had about one poster [nobody currently posting on any site,for months now, to my knowledge.]
It was duly monitored and I had a response from the Police force concerned, to say that it had been investigated.
Have a lovely day, if you are still around. I am a bit slow at typing .
Never mind, when the gran's army, in our country, get on the case, they need to heed !
Regards
Good morning all
This article is a good round-up -- but the more detail I read the more difficult it is to come to any proper conclusion. As I said I am purely on the side of fairness. The risks of attacking the McCanns in terms of emotional damage to them and their remaining family, plus self-respect, far outweigh the risk of being 'wrong'. IMO one is never 'wrong' for being fair even if one's generosity later turns out to be misplaced. I mean they are hardly likely to rush out and dispose of hordes of toddlers, so any other attitude smacks of revenge rather than justice. IMHO of course.
I'm sorry I wrote several emails in Afrikaans for the benefit of the SA posters on A's site as I think long personal posts in a foreign language are impolite to other posters. What A and Cl. do is obviously up to them -- it's their blog and I assume their posters don't mind.
I do wonder why the posters concerned don't just chat via personal emails, but whatever.
However, I seem to have set a small cat among the pigeons over there so I will explain and hope not to bore you as it's not directly linked to Madeleine.
When I introduced myself here I made a few peripheral comments about my knowledge of Afrikaans.
I then discovered that the S African posters over there had sniggered at some length about how no English immigrant could possibly speak Afrikaans apart from swearwords.
My Afrikaans offerings were simply 'vanilla' generalities about S Africa and its charms, and their inaccurate assessment of me -just to make my point. There was nothing impolite or confrontational at all, as I was trying simply to get that single point across. I said nothing that would bother a maiden aunt.
Which didnt' stop someone -- forgotten who -- who kindly pointed out that tulips were poisonous -- and this without understanding a word of what I had written!
My point made, and irrefutable, they ignored it and niftily proceeded to change the subject to other topics like being a snitch translating their private conversations for your benefit.
My posts duly appeared on A's blog. Then Alsabella jumped anxiously in to ask them whether my posts were bad and should she delete? This is hilarious. Even more so when she demanded a translation.
So now MY Afrikaans post was translated by Southern for the benefit of A's posters. Snitch!!
Funnier still, they didn't translate the one showing them up, with their sniggers and denigration, only a subsequent one in which I thanked doc for saying I wasn't SO bad.
And to Uil, yes Afrikaans does sound funny to Netherlanders. Kitchen Dutch they call it. But hey, when in Rome ...
Now you ALL know what was said -- more detailed translation would be pointless as nothing of any importance was said.
This isn't about me but Madeleine and let there be an end to it. I explain purely out of politeness.
Busy today so may not be able to say anything to anyone.
Have a good calm day all!
Morning Melbel and Tulip, Good Evening Diane
great post Mel. I think sometimes we need to be reminded of these very important questions, because when we do look at them we see that the PJ do not really have a case at all against the McCann's, I honestly believe that good old Gonc (Goncalo Amaral) decided in his arrogance that the McCann's were guilty, took a gamble and ever since even though he has gone from the investigation, the PJ have been waiting for evidence that was never going to come.
The PJ took a gamble and lost, they lost because there is no evidence and there is no evidence because these poor people are innocent.
Hi Rosie and Tulip
I agree with you,Tulip, that I , personally speaking, would rather be a daft old twit any time and show generosity of spirit and give people the benefit of the doubt than rush in to judge.Ne evidence in the public domain, just rumour,leak ,spin and speculation.
I feel it would diminish and degrade me, as a human being, to treat people so unfairly, and I try to do unto others, as I would want them to do unto me.
I think that the PJ thought they would verbally break the Mccs and it did not work, because thaey are strong and they are innocent.
I have seen nothing to point any finger at them.
When the initial forensic results came out, I wobbled for a few minutes, but the UK laboratory, issued a disclaimer and said that the evidence was being overplayed.
Were it not for the international dimension, these people would be banged up in a Portugese jail, with the other beaten up suspects.
It falls far short of what we expect in Europe and in 21st century.
Funny, Rosie, that article about the first woman graduate from Edinburgh med School, was involving a South African urologist, Dr Michael du preez.
Is docman taking the p....ss or what ?
Hi Rosie
Just popping out for a Guardian and some groceries.
Will catch up with you later.
take care,my friend x
Hi Melbel
Agreed and would like to add. Whenever I read that someone claims to have information but cant share it, I just turn off. This is another beat up by someone just trying to get some attention.
This is one of the reasons I stopped reading the 3 arguidos blog. There was often claims of information coming or something was going to happen and it never came true. And when something did happen, no one predicted it, not even the famous psychic detective Celticarla.
Hi Rosie
ST took a hammering overnight. I spotted it and popped in for a bit of helping hand
Definitely some drunk weirdo running amok through the blogs.
I have been reading the coverage of the disappearance of Shannon Matthews, and the comments made by posters on the Daily Express articles.
Not many of the “justice for Maddy and ALL missing children” posters are there, offering their daily insights.
Thank god for that.
Those who are, are suggesting various reasons why the coverage of her disappearance isn’t on a par with the publicity surrounding Madeleine McCann’s, mainly blaming it on class and status. Others are attempting to justify the absence of all the former contributors to the Madeline McCann HYS.
All I can say is, whatever the reason, it’s a blessing in disguise. After all, what good has the publicity done Madeleine McCann anyhow? What useful purpose have all us internet crusaders served?
We like to think we’re giving people voices, but we’re only exercising our own.
The polarisation, the cross-camp slanging matches, the wild theories, the crazed speculation, the paranoia, the vilification, the open accusations, the leaks, the spin……….none of it has helped Madeleine one iota, so why would Shannon want , need or deserve the same?
The Police, however, are throwing all their resources at the case and clearly following every line of enquiry, methodically and professionally; simply getting on with the job because they are, in fact, the best people to solve the case.
In the main, the Police are being trusted to do so by the public. Whether that’s because they aren’t showing themselves up by cynically feeding journalists unsubstantiated information designed to suggest the guilt of the parents , or because it simply doesn’t have the added dimension of a cross-border clash of nationalities and cultures, who knows?
What I do know is that, overwhelming publicity or not, Shannon Matthews has at least the same chance of being found as Madeleine McCann, despite her perceived disadvantages (which I think are actually advantages).
I know that everybody here and on other sites would be united in their desire for it to be so.
I forgot to say good morning all!
Hi Seawitch
I have posted a couple of times on Shannon articles but that full of herself Rothamere was on there criticising the pro McCanns for not caring enough to post. Anyway, needless to say I couldnt let that past. So I posted the following to her.
Bite me.
Rosiepops said...
Tulip,
What you have said doesn't surprise me, those that post on A's site have long since reminded me of the adage *men have selective hearing - they only hear what they want to hear* and with these posters they only understand what they want to understand.
You caused me to have a wry smile when you explained that Alsabliar, demanded a translation, every time I go to that place to read, (which I admit to doing occasionally) there are always many posts with Alsabliar and Claudia, (and others) speaking in Portuguese, like you I wonder why they feel they have to demonstrate their ignorance like this and simply not converse by email anything they want to say.
I believe it shows them in a very immature, selfish and arrogant light, but hey that does not surprise me either so I just tend to ignore them and pass it by, I am certainly not that interested in going to the trouble of translating it, let them have their childish sniggers at their posters expense, because this is what they are doing and they are in fact showing their regular posters complete ignorant and arrogant disregard, but who cares let them carry on, inevitably as with everything, eventually it will turn around and bite their ample backsides.
The fact that they only choose to translate your first post does not surprise me at all, no critique of the leader is allowed on that site, anything remotely critical of her, or her cronies is quickly deleted.
When Alsabliar opened her blog, all comment was going to allowed except for bad language, she is entitled to ask this, I too would remove posts that contained bad language from here, but in truth her blog is just a back slapping bitch fest, where neither fair comment or critical comment of the leader or of Portugal or the Sainted PJ is allowed.
By the way Tulip, notdoc and Southerncross and one and the same people and the more they protest the more laughable they are becoming, really I could not care less, but that coincidence of Southerncross turning up exactly when she did and not only that having a connection to where notdoc did his fictitious paediatric training must be millions to one, so excuse me if I do not believe a word notdoc, Alsabliar or Claudia, say anymore, they have been caught in too many lies on too many occasions.
I know they lie through their back teeth, what I do not understand is why? Why do they feel the need to invent such fanciful yarns and why are they so desperate to have us think that Kate and Gerry McCann are guilty of harming their daughter?
Oh well never mind, I dares say what ever it is it will all come out in the end, it usually does.
Seawitch
I dont take to this class thing at all. In fact, dont believe it. It is simply not sensational enough that a little girl goes missing on the way home from school.
Since that isnt enough, the press has now had to go on about the mother's past relationships, her ability as a mother etc. None of this is relevant to finding Shannon.
I trust the police to find her. Hopefully soon.
Seawitch your post was spot on.
Rosie
I was looking at Alsabella's site last night to see if the deranged anonymous had posted there (I think he/she did, as Alsa deleted 3 anon posts in a row) and saw the SA comments. Tulip is right, they were trying to make fun of her, yet to me, all they are doing is once again making fools of themselves.
I did get a bit of a laugh though. They were once again accusing us of having nothing to talk about but them. Then there was post after post of their carry on about us. Dear oh dear oh dear (that my Piglet impersonation) do they not even understand they are doing the same thing. Sad bunch that lot.
Tulip
I havent welcomed you yet. Glad to have you posting here.
Diane
Is dear Roth still going? passing on by everyone she doesn't like, will not talk to?
Roth asked to come on here but as she wasn't speaking to any of us, it was deemed a bit silly.
So even though we are not there, us so-called 'pro's' are still getting it in the neck? It doesn't occur to her of course that there may be discussion about Shannon away from the DE boards?
I for one am constantly looking for an update and know that the search for Shannon is the biggest in police terms since the hunt for the Yorkshire Ripper was on.
The difference in the way that the British investigation into the disappearance of Shannon Matthews is being conducted and the way the Portuguese police conducted the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, could not be more evident.
I pray to God that these dedicated officers find Shannon soon and the outcome and end to this is a happy one for little Shannon and her mummy and family.
(It appears poor Roth is missing us pro's)
Diane
I see much the same thing is happening to little Shannon's mother as happened to Kate and Gerry McCann in the Portuguese press.
What the hell has the parentage of this poor woman's children got to do with the fact that a dear and much loved little 9 year old girl has gone missing?
Hasn't this poor woman got enough on her mind?
Sometimes I wonder if the number one qualification you need to be a journalist is "no heart".
Don't these people ever have a twinge of conscience when they write this gutter trash?
Rosie
What is strange about Roth is that she hasnt found her soul mates on the other blogs.
You know, she is one of the posters that I truly despised. Her and that hard core Leigh. When I saw Roth having a go at us, I just couldnt resist. And she was drawing comparisons with the McCanns.
But now I think fondly of Roth, now that I know she is Billy Graham. I think it was Mum that pointed it out to us. I thank her for that. I knew there was something familiar about Roth but couldnt quite put my finger on it.
On a more serious note. I check the news constantly for Madeleine, Shannon and Mari Luz. I think I will add that Goa thing to my list of things to check on. I got the poops up yesterday and had to make a post on Sky news about it.
Basically I am sick of everyone blaming the parents for these incidents. The parents are not guilty. The people who abduct, rape and murder are the guilty parties. And nothing that the parents have done reduces or mitigates their (rapists, murderers etc) guilt in any way. Just because the opportunity was there, the evil bastards didnt have to take it. I get so angry because I see the criticism of the parents as an attempt to reduce the guilt of the actual criminals who committed the crime. Its like saying that the crime wouldnt have happened if the parents had done thier job properly, which is just plain silly. As we have seen from James Bolger's case, he was taken when only separated from his mother for a few minutes and only a few metres.
DianeH
I have just read your 11:10 post and it has made me chuckle out loud!
Incisive.......!
Rosie
I sent you an email about my blog. I have given you access to view it. I only set it up tonight and just has one picture on it, the view from my back door.
I am going to set it up with lots of photos of our house, family etc so that those family and friends that are far away can keep up with what we are doing.
I thought you might like to see it. I sent to your atticus email which you will be able to use to access, dont need to use your blog account. At least I think so. I actually want to test that it works like that, if you dont mind.
Seawitch
Glad you liked it. Not the cleverest comment but I was happy with the way it came out.
Well time to leave you to it. Im tired and going to bed.
Rosie, can you leave me a comment on my blog, if you are able to access it. If you cant get in, leave me a message on here or email me.
Take care.
Good morning Melbel, Tulip, Diane, Rosie and anyone that is on.
Diane, I laughed at some comments about the other blogs/posters. I remember Rothaymere - another notdoc - inaccuracies/lies in her posts.
Melbel, I agree with your comments on the investigation - it is hard to believe that a police force could seemingly be so inept.
Wasn't Rothaymere from the US? I should find her and ask her about the NY Governor -- no, that would be too painful.
Diane
I too have noticed the great reluctance of some, to acknowledge the sad case of Lindy Chamberlain and also notice they do not want to focus much on the case of Joanne Lees either.
"Initial public perception in some of the Australian media implied that Lees was in some way responsible for Falconio's murder, and as a result, she received a lot of hostility during her time in Australia following the disappearance. Lees has reportedly attempted to sue a number of Australian citizens in relation to their libellous claims about her in the Australian media. I believe she eventually dropped her claims."
But what those that libel the McCann's should realise is that the McCann's are *not* Joanne Lees and there is ample evidence of some people's libel all over the internet on HYS forums and private blogs and if the McCann's wished, I dare say they could get a couple of libel actions into court and win!
If I were them I would choose a few test cases and do just that, this may then teach some that actually they cannot just surf around the internet writing what ever they please and presenting their farcical nonsense as fact and in so doing actually managing to libel third parties like the Leicestershire Constabulary into the bargain!
With these very high profile cases and the high profile cases in the US too and some famous miscarriages of justice in Britain, you would think that this would serve as a warning to some, but I note that some people especially on the vile one's blog and the blog of Alsabliar.
It appears people just do not want to to let the truth or the facts get in the way of a nasty day spent commenting against two people suffering the immeasurable pain of a lost child and for some nasty ignorant arrogant people nothing will be allowed to get in the way of their daily bitch fest.
Shame on them.
Diane
Thank you for the invite, I have not been using the atticus yahoo account because I was sending mails from there and they were not being delivered, but I will see if I can access it, if not I have another you can use.
Hi Calcite
How are you? what time is it where you are now?
It is 6:15 am now. I am having my coffee - listening to CNN as the Canadian news show I watch doesn't come on till 6:30.
Btw, I'm fine, a bit tired BUT so thankful it is Friday.... How are you?
Calcite,
It is around 20 minutes past noon here now, nearly lunch time!
Tulip,
I think your posts are spot on, too. I have been reading your exchanges in Afrikaans - of course, I don't speak a word but I use the online translators, and then translate the translations into proper English! I think you put the juvenile gigglers in their place.
Diane, I don't buy this class nonsense, either; I think that it's simply the case that bitter, inadequate people will always find something to latch onto and criticise.
Like at school, when the bullies latched onto anything that was different and which they knew would hurt - the fat child, the skinny child, the one with glasses, the smelly one, the black one - anything to call them by.
It's not even personal.
Anyhow, I'm just off out for lunch but will read you all later!
Have a lovely afternoon (or evening)
x
Rosie, I also agree that the McCanns should sue the papers that made libelious claims against them as well as some of the blogs. Can you imagine our favourite consecutive number in court? She would be cross-examined for weeks and that is BEFORE being asked about the fffforensic evidence and the woof, woof.
Hiya Calcite and Rosie
Just looking in.When you look at the way this investigation has been conducted,so far, it is hard to credit that some people are actually believing the unsubstantiated twaddle.
It does not say much for their abilities to do a critical analysis of information.
How could someone like Rat possibly be in mensa and be a uni lecturer ?
It does not stand up to scrutiny .
I cannot imagine any of my lecturers from way back, being so daft.They were serious academics and researchers.Why do I care if she is man or woman ?
Re the docman,he says on felicity whatsits site, that his paternal grandmother, was the first woman to qualify, at a famous medical school in Uk,having been a surgeon.
I do remember, from the past, that this was stated to be Edinburgh, as it stuck in my mind.
Margaret ann brinkley did the first caesarian.
I wonder if she married a guy called Hugh mcmillan.[hobby of mine ]
Anyhow, who cares ?
I could end up as daft as them, if I took them seriously.
The PJ can only have so long to huff and puff, before they get to the end of the legal line.
It saddens me that I have lost respect, as I fervently believe that people go into these jobs, because they care and to make a difference.
I am sure, that fathers of children, they will have done some hard work.
Just why did they go down this road of daily drip drip leaks ?
Well ,I am off for a good while now.
Take care, all.
Hi Diane,
What a stunning view out of your door, so beautiful and tranquil.
I bet it was magical drifting along the river on a paddle boat when all the lights were gradually coming on, twinkling that the day was drawing to an end, so peaceful.
I tried to leave you a comment but it was restricted to team members at the moment.
Rosie xxx
Calcite,
I am fine, thank you, off out in a mo to take the little dog for the 2nd of her three walks per day!
Madam is sitting on my feet and cables as I write, trying to attract my attention to the clock!
I am sure dogs can tell the time!
Calcite
You make me laugh with your comments, LGC can only dream of having a sharp mind like yours.
These two blogs and possibly that of the 3 A's are so fixated with wanting the McCann's guilty and in court that they are literally failing to see that it is actually they, that could land up in court!
I don't know where these blogs are in the League Table of Hate the McCann's Blogs, as I do not surf around looking for competitors to them, but I would imagine they rank very near the top, if not right at the top!
These people just seem to me to be damaging their own souls with so much hate and bitterness spewed out by them on a daily basis, it just cannot be good for the psyche, can it?
Aw, thanks Rosie for your kind words. Absolutely nothing wrong with your mind or the other bloggers on THIS site. The other two blogs, well....that's another story.
Don't know if you read the blog from last last nite - Jane was pretty upset. NOTDOC was attacking her again.
I don't know what is going on with people - they're just very, very mean-spirited - it doesn't matter what you're looking at: Shannon, Madeleine, the GOA mom and this morning the NY Governor's wife was under attack for standing by her husband at the news conference for her husband's resignation. I don't get it - why are we kicking them when they are down?
Well, I'm off to work - everyone have a great day - will look in later on tonight.
BREAKING NEWS
PLEASE GOD SHANNON MATTHEWS FOUND ALIVE
MORE NEWS COMING SHANNON'S MUM ON WAY TO IDENTIFY HER!
Brilliant news if true. Made my day. But what is your source?
Isis
I know I have just reported it above.
The best of news and I am in tears thank God, thank God, thank God
and the magnificent British police.
Tulip
It is on Sky news now
Rosie , i deleted my post as you had posted and didnt want to duplicate. Thank God.
No problem Isis I am just so happy, tears running down my face here, Thank God she is alive thank God.
her mum and dad mustbe beside themselves with relief and happiness and pure joy.
Thank God
thank God!!!
I am too listening to Sky now. What a difference in the speedy, thorough reaction cp to PJ.....Well done Dewsbury police - biggest enquiry launched since Yorkshire Ripper. Great Result. Just hope she is well and has not been harmed. Not a dry eye here.
How lovely to have GOOD NEWS FOR A CHANGE.
Thank you Isis for coming over to let us know.
That was very thoughtful of you.
Thank God Shannon is safe and well.
news that Shannon is found in Batley[close to Dewsbury]
BBC,so should be right, thanks be to God and our wonderful Police.
What good news, Shannon found in base of divan bed.
Well done Yorkshire police and whoever led them to Shannon deserves a medal.
Less than 3 weeks and found, what does this say in regards to Madeleine's case.
PJ get some lessons in policing for god sake.
Thank God for our wonderful police. Biggest search for a missing child in living memory they are saying on the news.
I had a gut feeling she was still alive and close by.
As I have said many times, I feel Madeleine is still in or around PDL and yes I do feel she is still alive.
I hope that Shannon being found alive gives a little hope to Kate and Gerry.
Wait for the digs.
Kate and Gerry have said how pleased they are Shannon has been found.
If they kept quite it would be said they didn't care.
INDEED christabel
Indeed!!! And the Yorkshire Police also immediately informed what they were doing, and told us how many paedophils were in that aread, whichwas a huge shock to me in such a small area there were so many.......but with the register you can tell these things.
So, so many lessons here for PJ.
Tears will be falling up and down the Country and beyoned.
Praise be to the Lord.
afternoon CHINADOLL my chum
Yes, fantastic news.
YES CHRISTABEL
The McCanns are in a no win no win situation everywhere except here, it appears.
Who could be anything but happy!!! At least the 39 yr old man is arrested now. That's how to do it.... (with apologies to tom and jerry cartoons copywrite...)
Christabel,
Well the West Yorkshire police did not waste time did they?
Thank God our police do not ignore information coming in from the general public as thre PJ have done throughout the Madeleine investigation.
Thank God for our wondeful police force. No wonder they are said to rank amongst the best in the world.
No leaks...no secrecy....just honest, hardworking policeman.
Let's hope the next one to be found is Madeleine.
China
I am not ashamed to say that I have cried tears of happiness for Shannon and her family and am thanking God for bringing her home alive and for our wonderful police, who never gave up hope and where other police in other countries gave up looking for a missing little girl 3 weeks into the investigation, the British police INCREASED their efforts and their manpower.
Well done Yorkshire police and well done to the neighbour who had her wits about her!
ROSIEPOPS, MUM21
I wholeheartedly agree with all your posts.
I am proud of our police and their quick actions. Also proud of the neighbour who informed them too.
My heart also goes out to the McCann family, whom, I am sure have shed tears of joy/relief at the discovery of little Shannon.
Never give up hope Kate, Gerry, family and loved ones and continue your search, regardless of the opinion of others.
Mum
just listening, to a reporter saying that their liaison between the police and the newspapers had been excellent. the police wanted them to keep Shannon HIGH PROFILE and far from secrecy had kept everyone completely informed about what they were doing and when they were doing it and why!
TAKING NOTE PJ ?
I hope so for that safety and sake of all children in Portugal and for Madeleine.
Rosie. If only the PJ would follow the same guide lines as our police...and be open and honest with the press....then they may have stopped all this bitterness and hatred being spewed out by the so called anti's.
Even now..with Shannon having been found...2345 is still spewing out evil towards Kate and Gerry.
Why can she not give it a rest...and feel happy for Shannon's parents?
And at least apologise to them for suspecting the worst about Shannon's parents.
Glad to see our police did not stop looking for Shannon 2 weeks into the case.
That neighbour is going to be one big hero, and good on her !
She heard a childs footsteps and knew he had no children.
So Shannon dissapeared with no trace and no clues and has been found close to home.
Well I think the same should be done for Madeleine around very near the apartment in Pria De Luz ??
Let the British police do a proper search instead of numpty PJs.
Rosiepops - me too & no doubt, countless others. My insides are still churning, even though it is relief I am feeling.
Hi Jane, Mum, Christabel and all our friends.
They have just said he is part of the extended family on sky.!
I have ALWAYS been banging on that the PJ had NOT carried out significant searches and the 15K ring search that they should have done and have NOT done. I have consistently said this on the DX HYS and been shouted down by Tylers mum who knows everything and by the Portuguese posters.
NOW WILL YOU NUMPTY PJ LISTEN?
Do your bloody job and do your searches properly and you may yet be able to fine Madeleine.
Christabel
News is changing all the time, lets see what turns up, it was just a little while ago they were saying that it was the home of her paternal grandparents and then that changed, so let's see what happens.
If this was part of her extended family the house would have been searched, however, something led the police back to this address today and apparently they started talking to neighbours and they told them they had heard footsteps and so the police decided they were not going away and decided to enter the house, they did and she was found!
Let's see if this story changes, it probably will.
Hiya
Just a quick look in! I see Shannon has been found! Excellent news! Let's hope Madeleine is next - God knows, she's waited long enough!!!
Bit strange that although Shannon has only just been found on thisislondon.co.uk she is already no longer headlines! Instead they are comparing the women in the life of the man who committed suicide!!!
sassy
great news thank God she is alive!
Off to work now.
See you all later if I can keep my eyes open! Working till 21:30 my time but then I have to drive home, so might be slightly comatose!!!
Hiya Rosie
Brilliant! Some good news at last!
Who knows the workings of the journalistic mind but it is wall to wall covergae on the news channels though.
Be careful Sassy drive safely have a coffee before you set off.
Hi & Bye Sassyp,
Keep safe & take care.
The McCann's have been contacted and they have said they are absolutely delighted to hear the news about Shannon and that it has given them renewed hope in the search for their daughter.
Chin up Kate and Gerry Madeleine's time is coming soon, we are with you every step of the way. xxx
Hi China, jane, mum,christabel,rosie and anyone still on line.
Everyone in Yorkshire and beyond,are full of joy.
We will never give up on Madeleine either. I cannot praise the Yorkshire Police too much.
Apparently,it was good policing, from 2 detectives, just like the Ripper case, which I well remember here,too.
It is a big conurbation, so that is probably why we have so many known sex offenders and of course, we do keep lists in UK.
Poor Mccanns,they could not get the local police in Portugal to take the abduction seriously and then they knocked off and went home.
They did not stop the cars leaving Portugal, adequately.
We saw the Police,who were too idle to get out of their cars in the rain.Fact.
We saw amateurs, local and tourists searching haphazardly without much direction that you could see.
Some of the people in the same flats were not interviewed for several days and 3 days later, the local policeman had not seen a photo of madeleine, according to the lady who wrote the article, who was staying in the same flats [o donnell?]he did not know who he was looking for.
No communication, no updates,just secrecy and smears.
It is abysmal, Portugal.
Poor, poor madeleine and her family.
I was not implying that there was a sex offender,sorry.
I meant to respond in answer to Jane saying that it seemed like a lot of sex offenders in West Yorkshire are, when the Police gave this out earlier, that they were routinely checking all such people.
Hi there Melbel,
It certainly is wonderful news and yes, one cannot help but think 'if only' the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann had been conducted with the same diligence and professionalism, as that conducted by Dewsbury Constabulary, into the search for Shannon.
Hope you are well
Hi All,
So Shannon has been found. Thank God what good news.
Hello everybody - I have been busy recently with some of those hiccups that jump into our paths ... however I wanted to post how delighted I am to hear the good news about Shannon. I am sure that there will be a lot more about the story that will emerge, but she is alive and from all accounts calm and well.
Positive comments about the police are music to my ears having a family member in the police. Every day they put their lives on the line to protect us and witness sights no-one should have to encounter. Well done Police!! and not well done P.J. whose inadequate policing, appalling leakage of false information, and dubious handling of Madeleine's disappearance from the beginning, have led to her remaining lost approaching one year later.
Let's hope we hear some news about her soon, no wonder the McCanns are forced into the situation of using a private detective agency to try to find Madeleine.
Doing fine, thanks , China and hope you are also.
I wish I had your wit, sometimes and have really enjoyed your posts.They should be in the classics of blogs !
I gave up DE forum reading, late shift, as I was honestly getting nightmares, but tuned in one time, when Laz, Rosie, Tinks and your self were reacting to docnot, when he first started to act strange.
I was cheering you on, in the background and it was very , very funny.
catch up with you later and take care you.
Hi Mandz
Absolutely fantastic news!
Thank god for the wonderful West Yorkshire police.
They did not give up looking for her in week 3 and then just decided to start blaming everyone else.
When week 3 came along, instead of giving up and blaming her mother, they INCREASED the manpower and doubled their efforts and made this search for Shannon the biggest search since the hunt for the Yorkshire Ripper.
Thank God Shannon has been found and my thoughts have already turned to her welfare and my prayers for her and her family be given all the help they need to get through this. But thank God they have the chance to get her through this.
Thanks to the efforts of the British police.
I hope the PJ are taking note and I make no apologies for saying this.
I despise the PJ and what they have done and what they are doing now, totally incompetent, bully boys.
In case they may not even now realise it, Madeleine may still be alive in or around PDL and it is about time they did their searched properly, the searches they should have done and have not yet done, even now.
Hi Elaine,
So glad to see your name pop up and had been wondering were you were, I hope everything with you and your family is well xxx
Fabulous news about Shannon and I echo your post, daughter in law in the police force and I have nothing but admiration for them and her.
Shame on the Portuguese police for the way they have handled the Madeleine investigation.
Melbel
exactly so, the night Madeleine went missing the police gave up the search and knocked off and went off home refusing to believe that she had bee abducted, in direct contrast in freezing cold appalling weather conditions (unlike PDL) the West Yorkshire police increased their search at 2 am determined not to lose precious time, precious time that they new was fundamentally important.
Hi there Melbel,
Thank you. I cannot remember that particular conversation, but I certainly did a few late shifts on the DX forum! lol
I have read many of your posts and they are always articulate and informative.
Hope to catch you later too.
We are hearing conflicting reports that a bag of bones have been found in the lake. Still trying to find out the source and whether this is true or not. Didn't know whether to mention it until confirmed or not. Have to go now have no time to stop at the moment
Confirmed, bag of bones found but they do not know yet whether human or animal. Do not get too alarmed at this stage, I do not want to tell you what a lot of people do with their dogs in Spain and Portugal may be the same
rosie, divers have allegedly found a bag of bones in the lake search, not confirmen if they are animal or human but they have been handed to the GNR. Please God it isnt Madeleine.
Gina!
Thanks for this...
Where did you hear this...?
Gina and Rosie - Rosie thanks for the warm welcome back and Gina, this sounds like it could be bad news ... thanks for the 'heads up' ... I am sure we are all holding our breath
Please God no, not today on such happy news.
Is it a rumour? Could be because of Shannon, we know what strange things people say and do.
Let's just hope for that it is a rumour, what is the source?
Mandz sorry really can't stop, I know you don't like Alsa's site but keep looking there for updates as they do get the news quickly
I was not aware of this...This is turning into a very sad day...
Friday, 14 March 2008
Spanish T.V. reporting the Mari Luz Cortés case say she was suffocated to death, and then thrown into the water afterwards.
Spanish T.V. reports Telecinco has revealed what it calls the definitive results of the autopsy carried out on the body of the five year old
There has been new information in the Mari Luz Cortés case, the five year old girl from Huelva whose body was found in Ria de Huelva a week ago.Telecinco is reporting that the definitive results of the autopsy carried out on the child, which they say has proved that she was suffocated to death, and then thrown into the water afterwards. The autopsy concludes that the child died in the following 24 hours of her disappearance, and that the injuries to her head and ribs were also carried out before she died.The child’s father, Juan José Cortés, has called for time to ‘cry in silence’ and says that he will fight to find who is responsible and to see them pay for what they have done.Police say they think a local person may have seen Mari Luz with her killer, but is too frightened to come forward.
Hi Mandz - it certainly is brilliant news.
Elain - Hi, lovely to see you again. Hope your hiccups are resolved soon.
Mandz - obviously, the briliant news comment was about little Shannon.
The latest news on Mari Luz, is truly dreadful and shocking.
Ref the bag of bones, my husband confirms that animals are often disposed of this way, in many parts mainland Europe. Let's wait for positive news and not dwell on such an uncertainty.
Hi China!
I was not aware of this and hope your husband is right! I've searched and cannot find anything re: bag of bones.
As for Mari how sick and so very very sad..My heart goes out to those parents..
Yes fantastic news re Shannon!
Afternoon Everyone,
I have only just heard the wonderful news that Shannon has been found alive. Thank God and a huge thank you to the Yorkshire police for what has been a text book operation. True professionals.
http://translate.google.com/translate?sourceid=navclient&hl=en&u=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2eportugaldiario%2eiol%2ept%2fnoticia%2ephp%3fid%3d928079
Link to bag of bones.
I think this is another bit of deliberate leaked info crap myself.
Do they only find anything on a Friday ??
re the news on Mari Luz bless that poor little child and my thoughts and prayers are with her family.
Re the news about these bones, I find this highly suspicious that this news broke at this particular time, when the PJ new they would take a hammering in Britain.
If true (big if) the description of these bones sound like animal, sounds suspiciously like puppies or kittens to me.
If this were Madeleine were is the Skull and the long bones? There would also be more in that bag than just bones after only 10 months.
As for the PJ officer? Well what do you expect? What is an ex PJ officer saying "we know" what has happened, it is just a matter of proving it? Are they all bloody thick or something? Do they honestly think that we are stupid and gullible to fall for these ridiculous games of bullying and intimidation they keep playing with these parents?
What is an ex PJ officer saying he knows this for anyway? What about these damned secrecy laws?
I am totally sick and tired of the PJ intimidation and incompetence, If this is indicative of the entire Portuguese policia judiciaria then I have never seen a more untidy more unprofessional police force in my life.
The PJ officers concerned here should damned well be arrested and charged with criminal dereliction of their duty.
Smug incompetent idiots.
Just looked on that 3 arguidos site, never been on it before.
God what a load of crack pots.
Bet you never knew this ?
...................................
I know how you feel. It was reported that Gerry and Payne [I think] had acid in their possession. It will be a long time before any confirmation will be given unless they can rule out human bones!
...................................
ROFLMASO.
I cannot believe how many things they had on them.
Wonder if they had to pay for extra weight at the airport.
Oh my god !!!
Evening everyone,
Hope you are all well.
Just got back home and watching the news about Shannon being found alive.
Its great news.
Melbel, the doc has had a go at you in the vile blog about him never saying that his grandmother graduated in Edinburgh.
Big mistake.hehe
Regards
ST
Christabel
re deliberately leaked look at me previous post!
I think this PJ officer has given this statement because he knew perfectly well they would be taking a battering in Britain today.
Sick of them gagging the McCann's and blabbing themselves.
They are a shameless disgrace to their country.
Can you credit it ?
there is supposed to be a vet at the lake.
He must be good, he's washing the bones in the lake.
What is he trying to remove ? lololololol !!
Christabel
Don't forget they had that huge weighty police book with them too and a set of sharp knives and cleavers etc.
Blue bags, red bags, grey bags and black bags.
Acid and a box in each size of surgical gloves.
Syringes and needles and a cocktail of drugs for IV and IM administration.
And they managed to get all this through customs as well as a buggy, various suitcases, hand luggage and a set if tennis rackets etc.
And they had a big bundle of Pampas grass too!
That 3 A's site should be nominated for a black comedy website award!
They have all totally lost the plot and are complete crackpots!
Thank you Christabel.
I will wait and see what this actually means however surely someone could tell the difference between animal and human bones? I am also disappointed that this was handed to authorities because sods law something will happened to the bag like it will disappear etc..
Hi Supertroll
Hope you are well.
Fantastic news about Shannon, hopefully the next news we hear will be the joyous news that Madeleine has been found alive.
Rosie,
good list, but you forgot the spade !!!
Hi Mandz,
if they gave it the PJ, its already lost.lol !
Rosie,
I can only hope.
When you hear news like this, you never know, enything is possible.
ST
Just listening to a heart warming interview on TV of the uncle and step aunt of Shannon.
Their faith and their dedication to finding Shannon was brilliant.
They said to Kate and Gerry to have faith and they hope that they get Madeleine back and how their hearts go out to them and they know what they are going through etc.
Doesn't sound like the mean narrow minded bigots on those other 3blogs does it?
Yes Christabel,
Why even call them about anything..??..!!
Back later...
Christabel
Darn it, I knew I had forgotten something, but I thought Gerry was meant to have bought a spade out there? Because no one would be suspicious of him going into a hardware shop followed by the world's TV cameras and jouranlists and photographers, would they?
And what is this about the colour of the bag could not be ascertained, due to the bag being covered in mud?
Well, that will give the conspiracy theorists something to bitch about - not that they need an excuse.
Anyway, I will not let this detract me on todays brilliant news.
Hi there, Christabel and Supertroll
Supertroll
I think this will give the McCann's much needed hope.
I just hope that Shannon has not gone through too much during the time she has been missing. But she is alive and she can be helped, but I pray to God that she hasn't been hurt in any way.
Rosie,
So do I.
Neighbours said she looked well when she was taken out of the house.
It is amazing that she was only a mile away from her own home.
ST
ha ha rosie your slipping lol !
Hi China,
Shannon being found is great isn't it ?
One thing I find a bit odd is that a neighbour said they could hear a childs footsteps above.
If this was true, and this man was in and out of the flat, Was she held against her will or not ?
If she was able to walk around the flat, she could have gone to the window even if she was locked in.!
The bag has just been left by the riverside and the people are leaving
Animal remains is the conclusion, some bits have been taken with some of the people involved for a bit more research in the lab
Hi all.just a quick one, was working last night and tonight also (that's not good grammar!!)
Just to say wonderful news about about Shannon. Her family must be ecstatic. Second that Rosie, hope that she did not suffer in any way. Realistically unless it was her own choice then she must have. I am sure that the full story will come out before long. We can trust the media on that!!
Talking about the media I listened in to the interview of the mother in Goa whose daughter was found raped and murdered (sorry I can't bring her name to mind, mind foggy at the moment)I thought she came across very well, an articulate woman. Straight from the horses mouth so to speak, (know there are always two sides to a story)however she confirmed that the stories in the British press were simply that STORIES.
Hope to catch up on you all mane.
Take care
I see that you have some interesting flags popping up on the feedjit map.
Me too, I had three from South Africa.
ST
China
Re the colour of the bag, I have heard that it is *not* blue, but as that would greatly have disappointed the conspiracy theorists they have made the thing up about the bag being covered in mud, so as to not disappoint themselves too much.
I can't see it being covered in that much mud anyway, the fact that it was disturbed and then brought up through water, if it did have mud on it surely it would have come off?
From the description of the bones I have seen, they sound like puppies or kittens.
What I do not understand is, if (IF) the report is true that they have a vet there, what the hell for? they should have a forensic pathologist and the area should be treated like a crime scene, not a vet washing the bones off in the lake, yet more blunders - unbelievable that still they do not appear to have learned from their mistakes!
It is confirmed they are animal bones !!!!
Supertroll
Yes I had noted that and have hardly been able to stop myself laughing, about as believable now as the night when Southerncross appeared! LOL
Christabel,
If the bag has been discarded at the side of the lake, then that seems to conclude the matter.
Thank goodness.
Hi Helen
I know what you mean, I just hope that it is more mentally than physically , I am sure you know what I mean without spelling it out.
Just heard that Shannon Matthews has been made the subject of an emergency police protection order!
Blimey, I feel like I'm on one big emotional rollercoaster today!!
Thanks for the update Christabel, will be back in about half hour.
Rosie and supertroll,
did he phone a friend SA.
Shannon has been made an emergency police protection order.
Snap rosie
No notdoc asked the audience.
(to get on their PCs in SA)
Rosiepops,
Absolutely, they certainly should have learnt from past mistakes.
Perhaps the vet was on a fishing trip lol
heard that Christabel
Rosie,
The visits came the day after our comments re how easier it would have been to move to another computer without firewalls rather than go through the whole ventriloquist act.
Good to see some people take notice of our words of wisdom.
ST
See you later Tinks
Christabel,
I am sure a few friends were phoned.
I am seeing the news about Shannon, I really hope she is ok.
ST
Rosie,
he wasted his 50/50 then.
Supertrol,
he never rang me or rosie, I'm gutted bet Rosie is too.
Wanted him to look at my bad toe lol !
So docmac has some admirers in South Africa, they're probably his chums, the three (un)wise men.
They're probably all bores oops, sorry, boers.
Should we call doc23?
Is the whole South African medical community reading our blogs now?
ST
Re the emergency protection order on Shannon, imo this will be used in order to give the police the time required to sift through the 'chaff' so to speak. It would be unforgiveable to put her into a situation that possibly had become untenable for her/ No accusing or speculating just doing the right thing by Shannon.
Hi all
A quick visit from Supergran.Good to get the confirmation re the animal bones, if that is the case.
Our local Yorkshire news is full of celebrating people and the community in Dewsbury, which you will guess, is a deprived area,are overjoyed.
Hi Supertroll
There are known unknowns, unknown unknowns and known knowns.
That docman forgets that he has been sprouting and doing imaginery ward rounds in DE forum for months.
He gets carried away with his own perceived self importance.
he has no right to say that he knows Maddie has died, as allegedly on 3 stooges blog, which I never read.It needs to be taken up by the appropriate authorities.
I have no intention of going into that snakepit.
I am an old age pensioner, of tender disposition.
he reads here, so let him.
If my name ever appears on another blog, it is not me, as I have no intention of going back to the DE chamber of horrors.
No doctor would join such a hate site.
I still think dope/dad, could be behind any cloning, as he did tricky cuts and pastes at de,didn't he ?
I have problems with a key, so I am well aware of where capitals should be, docmoc,but cannot be always bothered to correct them.
Watching a bit of Corrie, pals.x
Of course they are Supertroll,
And top of the list is Christian Barnaard lol
Supertroll
I noted that they appeared after our comments, this is why they made me laugh.
And do you think that as we have notdoc and southrncross flagging up in SA and now a third, that we can expect to be joined by another SA persona? I reckon it will be Anders Du Plessis, what do you reckon?
Melbel and Mum21,
I will avenge you.
Hi Christian B.
(waves)
ST
Melbel
here is the link to the post that Anders Du Plessis mate (notdoc) made.
http://the3arguidos.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1735&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
Rosie,
I wonder how easy it would be to get flags from Italy.
I don't know anyone who lives there but I am going to try.
ST
did you see the one in Gibraltar?
Melbel,
I absolutely agree with your comment on Dad/Dope
No, I didn't.
I like feedjit it is quite accurate imo, give or take maybe a few miles.
ST
A little something Alsaliar will noy want you to know.
Friends of McCann, tourists and ex-officials questioned soon.
the process simply no longer be covered by the secrecy of justice
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&u=http://www.portugaldiario.iol.pt/noticia.php%3Fid%3D925112%26div_id%3D291&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=2&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DPortugalDiario%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4GEUA_en___GB234
Christabel,
Please expand on that - pretty please, as I cannot possibly access that link.
I'm off to have dinner,
and maybe work on my next post.
See you all later.
ST
Cheers Supertroll !
Crumbs, Rosie and Christa, I cannot find some of the keys you quoted.
Do I write it exactly as you wrote it?
I do not have a lot of luck with links, but will try.
I learned to count on little seashells in a box and kept knocking them on to the floor with my knees.[when I was a schoolgirl]
Chinadoll just copy the link and paste into the top line where you insert web addresses. Don't laugh the rest of you, you know I am not computer literate!!
China, try this link.
http://www.portugaldiario.iol.pt/noticia.php?id=928079
When you get the page up, right click on it, then go down to page info and translate page into English.
If you have XP thats what it is, unsure on vista if its the same.
Hi
I am struggling to find the key with the little sausage,the 8 with something on either side.
I do wear glasses, but this key seems to me missing.
Sorry to be a pest.
many thanks,Christabel for putting it up. I have read that now, thank you.We will have to wait and see.
Poor Mccann family.
What would Alsa not want us to see, roughly ?
Hi All,
Been having a few problems trying to log in, anyone else having probs ?. I cant access emails either!
Hi Tinks
mine seems to be ok! How are you feeling today?
Chris
now that looks interesting just off for a read of the link you supplied.
A little better thanks Rosie, just a bit chesty.
Still cant access emails but at least I haven't been thrown out of google yet!
Christabel,
What happened, you deleted your post - did you post the wrong article?
HelenM,
I don't do copy and paste yet, but I have booked a session with my computer engineer, for next Wednesday, so there is hope for me yet.
Tinks,
Are you getting a pop up box asking for your username and password - which also states that the connection is not secure?
Hi Tinks
You will be glad it is the weekend.
Like china,I have not got very far with the computer yet,so cannot cut and paste.
I can always get on and paste, though.
I will have to ask one of my grown up children.
Sorry,I meant to say post and not paste.
If they do lift this secrecy order then this should mean that the McCann's can apply to see their file and the evidence against them?
They still seem fixated on this diary, I think the PJ are pinning their hopes on a diary! Apparently to see what kind of mood she was in when she wrote it? Well sorry but what blooming mood do they think she may have been in? Her daughter had been abducted and the PJ refused to look for her properly because they do not believe she was abducted!
Honestly I despair at the PJ more and more each day, talking about clutching at straws!
Hi China,
No, I just kept getting a message saying it cannot display the web page! I've just re-booted and so far so good.....Its drives me bloody garrity when it does this, soooo frustrating!
Hiya
Any news on the Arade dam search? Saw the earlier report on the bag found.
Hope you are all OK!
Hi Melbel,
Yep, I shall be glad to just rest up the weekend. Going to the hairdressers tomorrow and may even take them up on their head and shoulder massage!
You'll soon get the hang of cut & paste, its quite easy once you know how, I've only learnt recently and believe me if I can do it anyone can.
good evening ll of you
glad you are a little better Tinks still take care though.
tgif
Read all back posts today, so am up to speed. More than google was last night, as 3 at least times, mid post it cut me off. I had to sign in from scratch all the time, and just gave up with it. It seems rather temperamental.....
My emails are Ok though.....it's just google last night was dodgy. Seems OK today.
Trust all are well and happy it's Friday.
Supertroll
Love your new avatar! Not as sad looking as the other one!
Hi Everyone
Just dragged myself out of bed and heard the news about Shannon.
I am so glad she has been found.
The police have done a terrific job. Imagine, she was only 1 mile from home. She probably seen the people searching for her.
When I was reading back, I noticed someone said that she could have let herself out of the house. That is not true. 'Bad men' (for want of a better word and we dont know if this man is a bad man or just an idiot for hiding her) manipulate their child victims. For eg, he might have told her that her family would be hurt if she left and it would be her fault. A 9 yo would stay in that case and do whatever else she is told.
We will just have to wait and see what has happened to her and what the man who held her is charged with.
But it is good to hear that missing children are at times returned. In fact most are returned. We need to remember that.
Hiya Jane
VERY happy it's Friday, very happy that I am not working tomorrow and postively ecstatic that although I have to work, there are no students around for 2 weeks!
Rosie
Thanks for checking my blog. I will take a look at the comments thing.
When I get a few more pictures up, I will let you know and you can take another look.
We are very lucky to have such a view from the back door. My partner and I just love it. It is like living in a resort all the time (except for having to do housework).
multi tasking here watching the Apprentice for sports' relief, as the bunch of men on it are hilariously dreadful. What a hoot.
Dianeh
Exactly How can anyone know what psychological pressure she was put under.
There was a case of someone, think in Japan, who was kept prisoner in the attic. She wasn't locked in, but was too scared to leave.
good evening sassy
You had a long work day today. You need a rest.
Are you on 2 weeks no students already? that's quite early.
My daffodils....can I use that word.....excuse me I need a 5minute 'screech' break here............
coug splutter back, composed, just....
My daffs are battered by the recent winds, rain, hail, etc and are lying 5 degress from the ground. Sad .......
Wonder where I could put them?????!!!!!!!!! ....think we covered that one..............
;o) ;o) ;o)
Rosie, to coin a phrase, I think the PJ are P****** in the wind!
There is no evidence, there never has been. They put all their eggs in one basket and hoped for a confession. They could have called the McCs back to PDL at anytime, but they didnt because nothing had changed from the last time Luis Verao ruled there was not enough evidence to warrant further interrogations. It would appear this is still the case, because if my understanding is right, they are not even going to be requestioned when and if the PJ come this time round!
Mari Luz
I also spotted the previous posts about Mari Luz.
Has the autopsy been released? I thought it was to stay secret. I hope that Spain's secrecy laws are a little better followed than Portugals.
It is sad that it was foul play. Poor little soul.
Jane
And it won't be long in coming! But you can't leave work and go to sleep - it doesn't really work like that!
Poor little Mari Luz. I read she had a broken rib, was hit on the head and suffocated, before being thrown into the water.
Sassy
IMO and without any evidence, I find it hard to believe that a little girl would willingly stay away from ALL of her family for 24 days.
But as I said, we will have to wait and see.
Did you know we had the case of a 16 or 17 yo that went missing and the police believe she was killed by a serial killer. She was missing for 2 years. She actually turned up during the trial of her supposed murderer. She had been hiding at her boyfriends for all that time. Apparently once she had 'disappeared', she felt she had left it too long to go home and so stayed hidden. She saw no one except her boyfriend for those 2 years, hiding in a cupboard whenever anyone came to the house.
Just an interesting little case. Not at all related to this one. I think I am still half asleep.
Re Shannon, I thought I'd heard she was found in the base of a divan bed, would this suggest perhaps she didnt have freedom to roam ?
Has anybody else heard this ?
Tinkerbell I'd heard that too, whether she was put there or chose to hide there, who knows?
Tinks
Sky news UK (and I think Aust news reporting Shannon is OK as well) said she was hidden under a divan bed.
I wonder if she made a noise, or if the police did a very thorough search of the house. Skynews also saying the man was known to them. Either way, I am just glad the police went there and found her.
Helen
Is that the view from your house, or?????
Dianeh
Still interesting though! I don't believe that a 9-year-old would willingly stay away for that long either.
I read when I got home that Shannon isn't going home tonight - she is under an emergecy police protection order, so will be looked after by the authorities. What a blow to her mum, but at least it shows the police is doing its job in making sure she is safe while they conclude their investigations.
dianeh,
If you meant my post,
as you only say someone said Shannon could have let herself out.
Please re read it, I didn't say she could have let herself out.
Sorry if it was not mine !
Tinks,
That is my understanding too.
maybe the PJ are doing it like this because they think it will give them another ten months to apply for more rogatory letters to talk to them?
You couldn't make this up could you?
I am so happy for Shannon, but that was good police work that led to her being found, police that listen and act when they receive information from the public and not do what the PJ do when they receive information, just ignore it all.
Diane, if I walk up the hill to the side of my house and walk along the cliff path for 5 minutes that is exactly the view I have.
I am at present polling neighbours with a view to having a bench put half way up the hill and an O2 cylinder, for those like me who need to draw breath now and again!!!lol. It must be a 1:8. It is worth the hypoxia though and it does get easier the longer I am here.
Rosie
Just read your comment on Kate's diary.
I think that the diary can only be used to try to support the PJ's theory that Kate was suffering depression or something like that. However, as she only started writing it after Madeleine disappeared (as therapy I believe) then it will be as goos as useless in a court of law. It cannot possible show anything concerning prior to Madeleine going missing. And any feelings of guilt etc written in there will be perfectly natural given th circumstances. No, I dont see it being much use, in fact I will be surprised if the PJ even take it.
Helen
I love the beach, we always go there for holidays (went to Adelaide in march for a week and stayed right on the beach).
We could afford the beach, so we moved inland (back to my hometown) and have a house on the river. Nearly as good but not quite. But we have no sand.
You are lucky to live so close to the beach. A bit of envy coming through here.
hello everyone
Is there some talk of lifting the secrecy order, Rosie ?
Sorry,I have not managed to see it online.
Was that what Alsa would not want us to see ?
Don't worry, if not online.
.
Rosie, in Shannons case, it shows just how important it really is for the police to involve and work with the public.
Maybe if the PJ had applied the 2 exceptions to their Judicial Secrecy Laws, who knows, Madeleine may too have been found by now.
I hope Shannon is OK and whatever or however, she was held, I hope that they can get her through this, poor little girl, she is going to need a lot of love and support bless her.
She could have been told all sorts to help keep her detained there. She could have been told that her family didn't love her, that they didn't want her and no one was looking for her etc we do not know.
As ever we will have to wait to see what happened and if anyone is charged, then we will not hear anything until they go to court, for fear of jeopardising any case.
Tinks
I hear that she was in the divan base too, I wonder if it is a draw type or the lift up type? poor little girl.
More will emerge over the next few days.
Dianeh & Helen,
According to BBC news, Shannon was found in a drawer within the base of the bed, and the man was in the drawer on the other side. Apparently he is on the fringes as a family relative (on her stepfathers side). She was carried out not crying but obviously very scared. She was reunited briefly with her mum earlier but is now back in care.
Christabel
I didnt mean to be critical, actually I agree with you. My grasp of English must be slippling this morning. Reading back over my own post, I can see it didnt come out right. I was just discussing in more detail and trying to emphasise that she may have had little choice. Trying to back up what you said. Sorry about the 'THATS NOT TRUE' sentence. I really should have said, "It is not black and white". Obviously I need to go back to bed.
IMO, the news reports that I have watched this morning are being very careful not to comment on whether or not Shannon was held against her will.
And as they are not usually so reticent, it has me wondering.
Bye folks, off to work I go. Just heard on news at ten that Shannon has briefly been reunited with her mum, but will remain in care for the time being.
Catch you all mane.
I still cannot access my emails, is anyone else having problems with hotmail ?
Dianeh,
Ha, Ha, no probs, I wasn't sure if it was that or another.
We all need a lie down now and again lol !
no TINKS OK with me......
Bye Helen, dont work too hard :0)
Tink
Thanks for that.
Interesting that he was hiding as well.
I have cartoons on at the moment, so am not keeping up with the news. Better to keep rugrats happy than constantly annoying me.
Tinks
That's right and it angers me beyond words when you pointed out that the PJ need not have had these secrecy laws in place.
I heard a reporter discussing this case on TV, he was saying how well the police had kept them all informed and how important the police thought it was to have her picture and profile kept high.
Th PJ did not even release Madeleine's photo until 4 days later and in Madeleine's case, it would have been even more important to get her photo out there, because of the borders and the marina and ports, it was absolutely disgusting and unforgivable that they failed to do this most basic of things.
The success of the Shannon investigation really shows the shambles of the Portuguese Keystone Kops investigation for what it is, a farce!
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