Older Article But Well Worth Another Read or Maybe You May Have Missed This.
It was a welcome spring break, a chance to relax at a child-friendly resort in Portugal. Soon Bridget O'Donnell and her partner were making friends with another holidaying family while their three-year-old daughters played together. But then Madeleine McCann went missing and everyone was sucked into a nightmare
The Guardian,
Friday December 14 2007
We lay by the members-only pool staring at the sky. Round and round, the helicopters clacked and roared. Their cameras pointed down at us, mocking the walled and gated enclave. Circles rippled out across the pool. It was the morning after Madeleine went.
Six days earlier we had landed at Faro airport. The coach was full of people like us, parents lugging multiple toddler/baby combinations. All of us had risen at dawn, rushed along motorways and hurtled across the sky in search of the modern solution to our exhaustion - the Mark Warner kiddie club. I travelled with my partner Jes, our three-year-old daughter, and our nine-month-old baby son. Praia da Luz was the nearest Mark Warner beach resort and this was the cheapest week of the year - a bargain bucket trip, for a brief lie-down.
Excitedly, we were shown to our apartments. Ours was on the fourth floor, overlooking a family and toddler pool, opposite a restaurant and bar called the Tapas. I worried about the height of the balcony. Should we ask for one on the ground floor? Was I a paranoid parent? Should I make a fuss, or just enjoy the view?
We could see the beach and a big blue sky. We went outside to explore.
We settled in over the following days. There was a warm camaraderie among the parents, a shared happy weariness and deadpan banter. Our children made friends in the kiddie club and at the drop-off, we would joke about the fact that there were 10 blonde three-year-old girls in the group. They were bound to boss around the two boys.
The children went sailing and swimming, played tennis and learned a dance routine for the end-of-week show. Each morning, our daughter ran ahead of us to get to the kiddie club. She was having a wonderful time. Jes signed up for tennis lessons. I read a book. He made friends. I read another book.
The Mark Warner nannies brought the children to the Tapas restaurant to have tea at the end of each day. It was a friendly gathering. The parents would stand and chat by the pool. We talked about the children, about what we did at home. We were hopeful about a change in the weather. We eyed our children as they played. We didn't see anyone watching.
Some of the parents were in a larger group. Most of them worked for the NHS and had met many years before in Leicestershire. Now they lived in different parts of the UK, and this holiday was their opportunity to catch up, to introduce their children, to reunite. They booked a large table every night in the Tapas. We called them "the Doctors". Sometimes we would sit out on our balcony and their laughter would float up around us. One man was the joker. He had a loud Glaswegian accent. He was Gerry McCann. He played tennis with Jes.
One morning, I saw Gerry and his wife Kate on their balcony, chatting to their friends on the path below. Privately I was glad we didn't get their apartment. It was on a corner by the road and people could see in. They were exposed.
In the evenings, babysitting at the resort was a dilemma. "Sit-in" babysitters were available but were expensive and in demand, and Mark Warner blurb advised us to book well in advance. The other option was the babysitting service at the kiddie club, which was a 10-minute walk from the apartment. The children would watch a cartoon together and then be put to bed. You would then wake them, carry them back and put them to bed again in the apartment. After taking our children to dinner a couple of times, we decided on the Wednesday night to try the service at the club.
We had booked a table for two at Tapas and were placed next to the Doctors' regular table. One by one, they started to arrive. The men came first. Gerry McCann started chatting across to Jes about tennis. Gerry was outgoing, a wisecracker, but considerate and kind, and he invited us to join them. We discussed the children. He told us they were leaving theirs sleeping in the apartments. While they chatted on, I ruminated on the pros and cons of this. I admired them, in a way, for not being paranoid parents, but I decided that our apartment was too far off even to contemplate it. Our baby was too young and I would worry about them waking up.
My phone rang as our food arrived; our baby had woken up. I walked the round trip to collect him from the kiddie club, then back to the restaurant. He kept crying and eventually we left our meal unfinished and walked back again to the club to fetch our sleeping daughter. Jes carried her home in a blanket. The next night we stayed in. It was Thursday, May 3.
Earlier that day there had been tennis lessons for the children, with some of the parents watching proudly as their girls ran across the court chasing tennis balls. They took photos. Madeleine must have been there, but I couldn't distinguish her from the others. They all looked the same - all blonde, all pink and pretty.
Jes and Gerry were playing on the next court. Afterwards, we sat by the pool and Gerry and Kate talked enthusiastically to the tennis coach about the following day's tournament. We watched them idly - they had a lot of time for people, they listened. Then Gerry stood up and began showing Kate his new tennis stroke. She looked at him and smiled. "You wouldn't be interested if I talked about my tennis like that," Jes said to me. We watched them some more. Kate was calm, still, quietly beautiful; Gerry was confident, proud, silly, strong. She watched his boyish demonstration with great seriousness and patience. That was the last time I saw them that day. Jes saw Gerry that night.
Our baby would not sleep and at about 8.30pm, Jes took him out for a walk in the buggy to settle him. Gerry was on his way back from checking on his children and the two men stopped to have a chat. They talked about daughters, fathers, families. Gerry was relaxed and friendly. They discussed the babysitting dilemmas at the resort and Gerry said that he and Kate would have stayed in too, if they had not been on holiday in a group. Jes returned to our apartment just before 9.30pm. We ate, drank wine, watched a DVD and then went to bed. On the ground floor, a completely catastrophic event was taking place. On the fourth floor of the next block, we were completely oblivious.
At 1am there was a frantic banging on our door. Jes got up to answer. I stayed listening in the dark. I knew it was bad; it could only be bad. I heard male mumbling, then Jes's voice. "You're joking?" he said. It wasn't the words, it was the tone that made me flinch. He came back in to the room. "Gerry's daughter's been abducted," he said. "She ..." I jumped up and went to check our children. They were there. We sat down. We got up again. Weirdly, I did the washing-up. We wondered what to do. Jes had asked if they needed help searching and was told there was nothing he could do; she had been missing for three hours. Jes felt he should go anyway, but I wanted him to stay with us. I was a coward, afraid to be alone with the children - and afraid to be alone with my thoughts.
I once worked as a producer in the BBC crime unit. I directed many reconstructions and spent my second pregnancy producing new investigations for Crimewatch. Detectives would call me daily, detailing their cases, and some stories stay with me still, such as the ones about a girl being snatched from her bath, or her bike, or her garden and then held in the passenger seat, or stuffed in the boot. There was always a vehicle, and the first few hours were crucial to the outcome. Afterwards, they would be dumped naked in an alley, or at a petrol station with a £10 note to "get a cab back to Mummy". They would be found within an hour or two. Sometimes.
From the balcony we could see some figures scratching at the immense darkness with tiny torch lights. Police cars arrived and we thought that they would take control. We lay on the bed but we could not sleep.
The next morning, we made our way to breakfast and met one of the Doctors, the one who had come round in the night. His young daughter looked up at us from her pushchair. There was no news. They had called Sky television - they didn't know what else to do. He turned away and I could see he was going to weep.
People were crying in the restaurant. Mark Warner had handed out letters informing them what had happened in the night, and we all wondered what to do. Mid-sentence, we would drift in to the middle distance. Tears would brim up and recede.
Our daughter asked us about the kiddie club that day. She had been looking forward to their dance show that afternoon. Jes and I looked at each other. My first instinct was that we should not be parted from our children. Of course we shouldn't; we should strap them to us and not let them out of our sight, ever again. But then we thought: how are we going to explain this to our daughter? Or how, if we spent the day in the village, would we avoid repeatedly discussing what had happened in front of her as we met people on the streets? What does a good parent do? Keep the children close or take a deep breath and let them go a little, pretend this was the same as any other day?
We walked towards the kiddie club. No one else was there. We felt awful, such terrible parents for even considering the idea. Then we saw, waiting inside, some of the Mark Warner nannies. They had been up most of the night but had still turned up to work that day. They were intelligent, thoughtful young women and we liked and trusted them. The dance show was cancelled, but they wanted to put on a normal day for the children. Our daughter ran inside and started painting. Then, behind us, another set of parents arrived looking equally washed out. Then another, and another. We decided, in the end, to leave them for two hours. We put their bags on the pegs and saw the one labelled "Madeleine". Heads bent, we walked away, into the guilty glare of the morning sun.
Locals and holidaymakers had started circulating photocopied pictures of Madeleine, while others continued searching the beaches and village apartments. People were talking about what had happened or sat silently, staring blankly. We didn't see any police.
Later, there was a knock on our apartment door and we let the two men in. One was a uniformed Portuguese policeman, the other his translator. The translator had a squint and sweated slightly. He was breathless, perhaps a little excited. We later found out he was Robert Murat. He reminded me of a boy in my class at school who was bullied.
Through Murat we answered a few questions and gave our details, which the policeman wrote down on the back of a bit of paper. No notebook. Then he pointed to the photocopied picture of Madeleine on the table. "Is this your daughter?" he asked. "Er, no," we said. "That's the girl you are meant to be searching for." My heart sank for the McCanns.
As the day drew on, the media and more police arrived and we watched from our balcony as reporters practised their pieces to camera outside the McCanns' apartment. We then went back inside and watched them on the news.
We had to duck under the police tape with the pushchair to buy a pint of milk. We would roll past sniffer dogs, local police, then national police, local journalists, and then international journalists, TV reporters and satellite vans. A hundred pairs of eyes and a dozen cameras silently swivelled as we turned down the bend. We pretended, for the children's sake, that this was nothing unusual. Later on, our daughter saw herself with Daddy on TV. That afternoon we sat by the members-only pool, watching the helicopters watching us. We didn't know what else to do.
Saturday came, our last day. While we waited for the airport coach to pick us up, we gathered round the toddler pool by Tapas, making small talk in front of the children. I watched my baby son and daughter closely, shamefully grateful that I could.
We had not seen the McCanns since Thursday, when suddenly they appeared by the pool. The surreal limbo of the past two days suddenly snapped back into painful, awful realtime. It was a shock: the physical transformation of these two human beings was sickening - I felt it as a physical blow. Kate's back and shoulders, her hands, her mouth had reshaped themselves in to the angular manifestation of a silent scream. I thought I might cry and turned so that she wouldn't see. Gerry was upright, his lips now drawn into a thin, impenetrable line. Some people, including Jes, tried to offer comfort. Some gave them hugs. Some stared at their feet, words eluding them. We all wondered what to do. That was the last time we saw Gerry and Kate.
The rest of us left Praia da Luz together, an isolated Mark Warner group. The coach, the airport, the plane passed quietly. There were no other passengers except us. We arrived at Gatwick in the small hours of an early May morning. No jokes, no banter, just goodbye. Though we did not know it then, those few days in May were going to dominate the rest of our year.
"Did you have a good trip?" asked the cabbie at Gatwick, instantly underlining the conversational dilemma that would occupy the first few weeks: Do we say "Yes, thanks" and move swiftly on? Or divulge the "yes-but-no-but" truth of our "Maddy" experience? Everybody talks about holidays, they make good conversational currency at work, at the hairdresser's, in the playground. Everybody asked about ours. I would pause and take a breath, deciding whether there was enough time for what was to follow. People were genuinely horrified by what had happened to Madeleine and even by what we had been through (though we thought ourselves fortunate). Their humanity was a balm and a comfort to us; we needed to talk about it, chew it over and share it out, to make it a little easier to swallow.
The British police came round shortly after our return. Jes was pleased to give them a statement. The Portuguese police had never asked.
As the summer months rolled by, we thought the story would slowly and sadly ebb away, but instead it flourished and multiplied, and it became almost impossible to talk about any-thing else. Friends came for dinner and we would actively try to steer the conversation on to a different subject, always to return to Madeleine. Others solicited our thoughts by text message after any major twist or turn in the case. Acquaintances discussed us in the context of Madeleine, calling in the middle of their debates to clarify details.
I found some immunity in a strange, guilty happiness. We had returned unscathed to our humdrum family routine, my life was wonderful, my world was safe, I was lucky, I was blessed. The colours in the park were acute and hyper-real and the sun warmed my face.
At the end of June, the first cloud appeared. A Portuguese journalist called Jes's mobile (he had left his number with the Portuguese police). The journalist, who was writing for a magazine called Sol, called Jes incessantly. We both work in television and cannot claim to be green about the media, but this was a new experience. Jes learned this the hard way. Torn between politeness and wanting to get the journalist off the line without actually saying anything, he had to put the phone down, but he had already said too much. Her article pitched the recollections of "Jeremy Wilkins, television producer" against those of the "Tapas Nine", the group of friends, including the McCanns, whom we had nicknamed the Doctors. The piece was published at the end of June. Throughout July, Sol's testimony meant Jes became incorporated into all the Madeleine chronologies. More clouds began to gather - this time above our house.
In August, the doorbell rang. The man was from the Daily Mail. He asked if Jes was in (he wasn't). After he left I spent an anxious evening analysing what I had said, weighing up the possible consequences. The Sol article had brought the Daily Mail; what would happen next? Two days later, the Mail came for Jes again. This time they had computer printout pictures of a bald, heavy-set man seen lurking in some Praia da Luz holiday snaps. The chatroom implication was that the man was Madeleine's abductor. There was talk on the web, the reporter insinuated, that this man might be Jes. I laughed at the ridiculousness of it all and then realised he was serious. I looked at the pictures, and it wasn't Jes.
Once, Jes's father looked him up on the internet and found that "Jeremy Wilkins, television producer" was referenced on Google more than 70,000 times. There was talk that he was a "lookout" for Gerry and Kate; there was talk that Jes was orchestrating a reality-TV hoax and Madeleine's disappearance was part of the con; there was talk that the Tapas Nine were all swingers. There was a lot of talk.
In early September, Kate and Gerry became official suspects. Their warm tide of support turned decidedly cool. Had they cruelly conned us all? The public needed to know, and who had seen Gerry at around 9pm on the fateful night? Jes.
Tonight with Trevor McDonald, GMTV, the Sun, the News of the World, the Sunday Mirror, the Daily Express, the Evening Standard and the Independent on Sunday began calling. Jes's office stopped putting through calls from people asking to speak to "Jeremy" (only his grandmother calls him that). Some emails told him that he would be "better off" if he spoke to them or he would "regret it" if he didn't, implying that it was in his interest to defend himself - they didn't say what from.
Quietly, we began to worry that Jes might be next in line for some imagined blame or accusation. On a Saturday night in September, he received a call: we were on the front page of the News of the World. They had surreptitiously taken photographs of us, outside the house. There were no more details. We went to bed, but we could not sleep. "Maddie: the secret witness," said the headline, "TV boss holds vital clue to the mystery." Unfortunately, Jes does not hold any such vital clues. In November, he inched through the events of that May night with Leicestershire detectives, but he saw nothing suspicious, nothing that would further the investigation.
Throughout all this, I have always believed that Gerry and Kate McCann are innocent. When they were made suspects, when they were booed at, when one woman told me she was "glad" they had "done it" because it meant that her child was safe, I began to write this article - because I was there, and I believe that woman is wrong. There were no drug-fuelled "swingers" on our holiday; instead, there was a bunch of ordinary parents wearing Berghaus and worrying about sleep patterns. Secure in our banality, none of us imagined we were being watched. One group made a disastrous decision; Madeleine was vulnerable and was chosen. But in the face of such desperate audacity, it could have been any one of us.
And when I stroke my daughter's hair, or feel her butterfly lips on my cheek, I do so in the knowledge of what might have been. But our experience is nothing, an irrelevance, next to the McCanns' unimaginable grief. Their lives will always be touched by this darkness, while the true culprit may never be brought to light.
So my heart goes out to them, Gerry and Kate, the couple we remember from our Portuguese holiday. They had a beautiful daughter, Madeleine, who played and danced with ours at the kiddie club. That's who we remember.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/dec/14/ukcrime.madeleinemccann
Still Missing ~ Still Missed ~ Still searching. Anyone who thinks they have any information please see contact details below. The Portuguese police cordinater Goncalo Amaral, has repeatedly frustrated the search for Madeleine. Mr Amaral has already been found guilty of concealing evidence of torture in the case of another missing child, is also facing a raft of other charges, he is due to appear in court for libel and defamation of Madeleine's parents, Drs Kate & Gerry McCann.
426 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 426 Newer› Newest»What strikes me as amusing about the antis,is for months every single sighting and every single witness to come forward and say they have seen Madeleine has been absolutely slaughtered and yet here we are, as soon as one comes up they like, they are falling over themselves to make it all fit and even daft H4T has a suggestion about how this taxi could have been used to transport a dead child about in full view of everyone. I dare say that 2345 will soon come up with one of her pearls of wisdom (I hope she remembers to check it out though).
Hey teyman no problem and glad to see you made it back x
LOL - How do you hail a taxi in Portugal Rosiepops?
"Godfather, be my friend"
???
Elaine
Let's face it the PJ are ego maniacs, they refused British help at first and then when they accepted it they placed the detectives in a compromising position until they said this couldn't work and returned to Britain.
If the only thing they had was this supposed DNA evidence in the hire car, that said Madeleine's body was in there, they would have moved and charged the parents by now, after all this is what they have been trying to do since 3 weeks into this investigation.
I agree with you they have nothing, the reason why they have nothing is because there is nothing because the McCann's are innocent.
it looks like something appears to being covered up here and I am thinking like Casa Pia, the sick events like Jersey tells us that this kind of thing happens! I have my thoughts on this but cannot put them on here, but a few know what I think and it is scary and what has struck me was the similarity of my thoughts to what has happened in Jersey and this was before I knew about that. Those that I have spoken to about this will know what I am talking about.
To me all roads seem to lead to a particular place.
PICTURE OF ALL 5 MCCANNS
The only one I ever sw published was of the Christmas of 2006 as a family group which was lovely. Can't recall where or how I saw that nor in what publication. Sorry.
How much 'discretion' do the PJ have when over here? I take it Leicestershire Police will be involved and will anyone else from London at all? I last read it was 'advised' that Kate and Gerry should have separate lawyers......did that ever actually happen??? If so do the other couples have separate lawyers too?
I am confused about all the detail of this.
the jeep was said to have a yellow british reg. that's what makes me wonder.
the taxi driver's son was in police yet he was not taken seriously makes me wonder even more.
wonder who dreamt up this fairy story as to me it does not ring true and to print it on same article tonight in this is london even more so.
stitch up.
Rosiepops, you have just written exactly what ive been wondering about cos where are all these people catered to now?
they dont just cure/go away...
I have actually been involved in many debates/discussions re abuse and Portugal way before CP and Madeleine case too obviously, but with Brits, them claiming they go there cos it is safe and no abuse.
Nonsens, all countries have their abusers, and the more you cant see, the more its high level and hidden. Closed society being good examples.
rosiepops
I know what and who you refer to and I also have thought this from earlier stages. No doubt to me. Too close, too similar, too uncomfortable. the more closed and more in denial the more I believe it. still do.
The Jersey situation and the Italian Wells is sickening. grossly so.
is DOBY
still fighting with google? Tell google to put him down.
whizzg aka teyman
Chinadoll knows you will be on and will be here tonight.
;o))
JANE
Hiya Teyman - even got yourself a Google ID! Nice going!
I think if Madeleine is found then there is going to be some other nasty surprises too and I do not think this is outside Portugal. I am sorry to say this, but I think that Madeleine is still in Portugal and I have always had a gut feeling about this, which refuses to go away. Obviously I conceded that I am probably hopelessly wrong.
rosiepops
she could be still in Portugal, I am not sure at all, but like you I do feel she is not the only child there. Not at all.
I just want the end to come soon as 10 months is ridiculous and the amount of stories and ridiculous speculations on the web are really dangerous in my view.
It is more than interesting the fact that the children going missing in this part do not fit a singular paedophile ammo, nor a singular group [ie say a small paed gang working together], IF the cases were connected - what ARE they catering TO.
There is only one type of paedophile circuit [WHERE they connected] that is as non selective and non gender or age specific as these cases as a collective...:-)
[The only 2 that are similar in paed terms are mari and madeleine.]
Hi All,
Rosie, thanks for the link, had a read and a few things jump out re. the taxi drivers statement.
Obviously a lot has already been covered but noticed the driver stated the party asked "how much"
in English, obviously trying to discount the fact that Robert Murat was one of them ( him being a fluent Portuguese speaker ) but it would be a look-a-like.
To me, this smacks of the ridiculous theories being carried out on forums implying one of the "tapas" group (sorry, can't remember which one it's supposed to be )has been mistaken for him all along and is now being used by the PJ, as an out.
The second point which makes no sense at all, was his recount of a British no. plate on the jeep.
I remember months ago, certain Portuguese posters theorising about a "blue jeep" which was used by one of the couples. If they did have one on holiday, why would it have GB plates, surely it would be a hire and therefor a Portuguese plate no.
Again, I am worried the ridiculous theories of some on forums are being listened to and " witnesses" are being ferried out to substantiate some of these.
My worry being, the case cannot go any further due to lack of evidence but the McCanns are always looked at by some ( the hard of thinking )as being guilty, no fault of the PJ, they just couldn't prove it and the case is closed. Hope I'm wrong but it seems to have been going that way for while now.
Sorry if already covered, still catching up.
I often think we jump to the pedo route and it could perhaps not be that at all. I think it is complicatted, I think there is definitely collusion with authorities, high up authorities and the tapas 10 or 11 would help us to explore this more. we can't.
I also feel the PJ have more we do not know about and I conversely believe he PJ have LESS than they IMPLY THEY HAVE THROUGH PRESS as well.
I do not, like 2345's mantra....believe in dna beyond any doubt pointing to them at all. Not at all. No.
this taxi story is most odd. All stories have been surrealy odd....all linking strangely with pj, govt, church, masons, ivf, medicine, aaarrrgggh... It's like that novelist. stephen king could not have made this up, had he done so, it would not have been published. Not one word of it.
Hiya Jak
How you doing?
Hey Sassy, better tonight thanks, had a touch of the forum fatigues but getting there.LOL.
How's you?
Glad you fought it, Jak!
Evening All.
Jak, I think this case is going to be unfortunately shelved. I think the PJ are going through a damage limitation exercise, exit strategy already being applied as in preparing the Portuguese public for no charges. I think the questioning of the Tapas 3/7 is purely a face saving exercise the end result being as you said, no fault of the PJ, they just couldnt prove it. I would love to be wrong, but like you I think it is going that way.
Hi Jak,
I'm to and fro cos never watch tv really, but its masterchef final tonight lol.
The blue jeep.
Story re that one is from way back. Interesting it is dragged up again by a convenient witness.
I cant remember facts on this but it was allegedly lent at some point to the mccanns or tapas lot by a british business who now has his businesses in portugal
It is where the buried in quarry or building site crap came from cos it would fit re his business ventures etc...
So little i remember on this now bar running round the internet tracking him down and surrounding info etc etc
Hi Jane, see you already covered the GB plates. Sorry, not plagiarising, honest.lol.
Where is Seawitch ? Thought she was back to stay, hope you two haven't had another barney.
Hiya Tinks - Fairy with Attitude
I reckon it is going to be shelved, too. As you say, they'll try and save face and in my opinion, they'll make everyone think it was the McCanns or their friends and say that they don't quite have enough evidence to stick em behind bars. That way it'll look like they've solved it but their hands are tied!
If they need to prepare the portugese community for no charges...
maybe they do need to come over
to explain personally, to mr and mrs mccann how in the hell they can close a case whilst their daughter is still missing! :-)
But yes, it is exit and last chance, or fit up city all the way now.
Hi Assasin and Tinks,
I'm also multi tasking, watching MC.well, it is the final. The jeep mention really bothered me today, so many of the previous theories are now being covered.
Tinks, I agree, I also think this is now about damage limitation. None of the stories coming out now are from officials but this latest was imo, quite telling.
Assasin Hi, I dont think they can do anything else but come, they have been saying for the past 5 months they are on their way, the least they can been seen to do is arrive. Who would have thought 2 Doctors from Rothley and 7 friends could out fox one of the alleged Top 5 police forces in the world!
Hey Sass, how you doing ? your little post didnt go un-noticed earlier as in you were enjoying your day off, whilst I was busy keeping the wheels of British Industry going :-) Saying that, the wheels are just about hanging on!.
I'm sure the Mccanns hope they do.
High time they had this despicable arguido status lifted. Albeit the damage is already done unless they get their backsides in gear and find the real culprits.
Or they are - exposed
I think their new man was a plant and a fall guy tbh. bring in the alleged smart ass who is oblivious to what is really going on and let him wrap it up and close and the initial lot stay clean. Clean of how much is the question.....
Hiya Tinks
So I'll be expecting great things from the British economy then!
hi jak
to put this to bed. Seawitch and I are great buddies, we never argue, we banter, pull strings, ridicule, etc we are not in any way enemies. It's a huge joke on here and has been on DX for 10 months. We are great buddies. The reason she isn't here is coz she's working very very hard now. I only know coz I am her biggest ''enemy'' and ''fight'' all the time ha ha ha ha NO....she is working long hard hours. She is my chum. JUST TO DISPEL YET MORE DOUBTS..
No I too have made points today others have made more than once. I would not at all think ou are plagiarising....of all people assasin/muse and I are on same wavelength not heard of before in DX when not sharing many i any views. That's what makes this such fun. A lot of thoughts, having read right back to first post this morning on this, are similar and that is good. A consensus means wer are not raving loonies but analytical and caring. but time will tell. we do not know what they know or have 'fixed' sorry to say. and will we ever know 'all' involved - just the ones we are told to blame? That worries me very much too.
JAMES WON MASTERCHEF AND I MISSED IT COZ HERE DAMN SH&T AND BLAST. sh&t.
ah well.
this is far far more complicated than we will possibly ever know. I want the secrecy lws scrapped NOW AND HONESTY AND OPEN JUSTICE EVERYWHERE. THAT'S THE LEAST WE DESERVE....
anyone tell me why all Madeleine campaigns have been withdrawn, esp. the one to Gordon Brown????
Also this Michael Shrimpton report true or myth?
assasin I thought the young girl with such vision and flair would win it. don't know what she cooked tonight though. .....???
Is it repeated? I love that programme. Darnit.
Good evening all!
Who is to say the PJ are not in on it? Are they being paid to turn a blind eye with regards to children being taken? Did the same thing happen to Joana who has never been found?
Strange these two children are taken from round about the same area and both parents get the blame from the same head of both investigations (Amaral) and we all know now he is going to Court for being “corrupt” with Joana case.
Did they intentionally decline the British help because of this? Who knows but it is possible and I would not put anything past this lot because what has come out of this case so far is a complete joke however not funny.
I read in the Times from a Portuguese person who said the PJ are corrupt – they can pick on you for no reason and you are forced to pay them cash to leave you alone.
Mandz ... I think there is a lot more to the P.J. Than we know. Wasn't it Athena on DX who hadn't got a good word to say for them. I think the Portuguese are scared .. wasn't it Murat himself who was worried about being beaten up by them and glad he had a lawyer present? I do not know who said they are one of the best five police forces in the world ... how would you begin to judge such a thing .. what do they have Police Olympics? (don't think old tubby would do very well in them)
teyman whizzg hi there again
the witnesses made their reports at the time and were buried....turning up almost a year later, IF made as they say at the time, why start looking now and not start at the 'start'......
The taxi driver's son in the police too makes absolutely no sense unless it is a frame up which I believe it is from last night's posts and today's...dirty fat big rat here. And not on a beam for once. ha ha ha
Jak
Believe me, if Seawitch and Janegt were talking like that to each other and they weren't just fooling around, we would have deleted their posts!
This is one blog where ANYONE insulting anyone else will get yanked - not like the other two blogs where friends can say what they like and others have no chance!
Oh dear Sassy ... does that mean I can't call Old Tubby P.J.OFficer old tubby?
OH Jane, I apologise, I know you and Seawitch were joking. I was reading some of the posts from today and i was taking the p**s.
I adore Seawitch, she was the reason I began posting on the DE, so many months ago now.She is a gem.
I know you two have a "p**s taking" banter on here, was just trying to lighten it, after reading the misconception.( not successfully at all). I apologise.
You are probably just sick of it now, which I can understand!
I'm not sure they need paying because jobs like the police are hiding tools to abusers as are many other professions.
By that i am not saying members in this investigation are involved in anything sinister.
What i am saying is that always at the top of the tree in a hidden abuse ring are people in professions exactly like the police, governments etc because that is the people who yield most power to obtain silence.
There power is magnified when large parts of a community accept what they say as fact, without question.
Interesting a thug IMO was involved in this case in the beginning....
No insulting EACH OTHER (ie posters on this site) ! I doubt he posts here - go for it!
Have long since thought this case was heading for the shelf, it wont go officially it will go via the side door.
Like all you who have said this is a face saving exercise for the PJ, spot on, it is, it has always been about face saving and the Portuguese tourist industry. The best way to get themselves out of the hole the PJ dug for themselves is to blame the parents.
One of the most sickening aspects of this case is that because of Goncalo Amaral, himself going to face trial on serious charges, this search was stopped very early on.
I think this case of Madeleine McCann is not over by a long chalk, because her parents are never going to stop until they know what happened to their daughter. The PJ may think they can get away with trying to cast the parents in a black cloud, but they wont.
For some weeks I have been mentioning on the DX and then on here that there was never anyone that had come forward to cast doubt on the McCann's, noone to say they were acting suspiciously or in a place they should not be and then suddenly this crazy taxi driver story emerges.
Jak, you are not wrong, I think the PJ are looking at or being tipped off by someone on forums and blogs like this and then trying to take the points raised and address them, totally bizarre and incredible, but it seems to be happening and this is not the first time I have noticed something like this.
I firmly believe find Madeleine and find a lot more besides, things that some want kept secret.
Assasin mentioned this does not fit one particular paedophile group, she is right it doesn't and this is exactly why I think there is something in this. It is as if there is some kind of sick service at play here. Don't forget Yeremi (Jeremy) from Gran Canaria and the 14 year old that went missing before him from the same area. Then there is Rui Pedro and Joana Cipriano, Madeleine then Mari, how many children have to go missing before someone admits there is a huge problem here?
If you write down all the what you know about these disappearances and then think about them in context with another scandal then it is not hard to see two connections and links and then the questions start providing their own answers.
Oh okay then Sassy, but just to be sure of the rules can I be sarcastic about 2345, Rothaymere (aka Billy Graham) and Jane Hill?
People thre are so araid to talk to the PJ even MRS MURAT if you recall had a stall where she handed out posters and forms saying if you are too afraid to go to PJ we will help. So Mrs Murat has certainly knowledge of anything handed in - and Murat has translator knowledge of some of Tapas 9..... Stinks.
I too believe the PJ are corrupt and thats' the first time I have spelled it out ..... AND NOT OR THE FIRST TIME BUT LET IT BE THE LAST. Look at recent cases, the geographical location the fear in the community, and the verY people doing it are prtected and I mean not only the PJ but Murat and co.
NOW SUE ME.
CAN'T I HAVELEFT THE BUILDING.
BY THE WAY RATONTHEBEAM I NOW LIVE IN MOROCCO. SO I HAVE LEFT THE SCULPTURE 3RD LEFT FROM THE BASILICA. OH NEARLY FORGOT
goooofoooboooohoooooboooohooooboooohooooooaaarrghhwaaaarrrghhhhhgoooodhhhgooooooooooochoke choke splutter
that ws me crying by the way, why should we be the only blog without bleating, whining, idiots. So, I volunteer.
BOOOHOOOBOOOHOOOBOOOHOOOBOOOHOOOBOOOHOOOOBOOOOHOOOOBHOOOOOOOARRRGHHH
stuff it...finger fatigue.
....as well, no forum fatigue has gone.........this enlivens me and this is the refresh key Doby on top 5th right approx with 2 green arrows going up and down. Just like us. Going up and down. Up and down Upto alsabellastrollvivvilesitlelelelala dnaajalkdasdjalgflkkgkjgkglggl
jane
Rosie - you make a lot of sense ... but as to how this case will end up, I despair - how long can the arguido status be applied ... isn't it years? Meanwhile the McCanns have never been allowed to tell their side of the story - gagged by fear of jeopardizing Madeleine and then legally by the P.J. Just for one moment imagine that the P.J. had not leaked scurrilous half truths, lies and rumours ...there would be nothing to debate ... oh I forgot, I guess the antis could have carried on with their child neglect issue ad infinitum.
How on earth will this leave the McCanns if it remains stalemate. If Madeleine is never found ... and she may never be ... suspicion will be over their heads forever, I don't know how they could clear their names.
Elaine!
I doubt tubby could tie his shoe laces! How is he meant to chase criminals? catch a bus...!
Bye for now!
Sassy, re. Jane and Seawitch, I know it was banter. It just doesn't convey in text sometimes, I have tried to explain. :0)
Hope all is forgiven now. lol
Good evening all, hope your well ?
Jane darling, you had better be careful ... well we all had ... the last time we started criticising the P.J. one of the dear Portuguese posters said she was sending all of the posts to the P.J. as EVIDENCE!! It did not end well poor Mandz had to go into hiding and then ended up in an arrowed suit knitted by BIG L In some exotic prison cell
So watch out there's a P.J. ABOUT!!
The finding of Madeleine is necessary not to clear the McCanns - but to clear the PJ! IMO
Jak
I know you know - just wanted to prove we aren't as hypocritical as others blogs we know!
Jane and Elaine
And they were all going to come to my place to hide out and I was going to have to make them clothes out of my curtains and teach them to yodel!
Christabel!
Hiya - thought you had moved to a different blog!!! ;-)
Sass,
begged vile but won't let me join lol !
Not other one cos don't know if its a shim !!
Sassy, OK get it !
Jane, you still about?
ASSASIN
yes agreed
ROSIEPOPS
yes with most haven't thought of some
ELAINE
read all your posts today, well thought out. 'the fear' scenario is worrying. Alsabella used to put them forward as a 'gentleman' police force, which is true, they are well qualified, and intelligent. does not sadly mean, they are not or cannot be corrupt.
by the way beegee, ratonthea*se, or 2345 = who I know have been posting on here with your Vile chums, cut this paste it , and p*ss off to your s*ites where you are talking about me posting anonymously. NO I HAVEN'T I HAVE BEEN BORING PEOPLE HERE ALL DAY ALL ALL ALL DAY BUG beegee HAS , SO ASK THEM. THEY'LL KNOW.
YWAAAAAEEWWWWWWN.....AND ALSO CRYING BOOOO HOOOO BOOO HOOO.
you lot who see this - cut and paste IT ALL , THEN go cut and pAste yourselves to the nearest cliff about to fall....into the sea. thank you. WHAT? UPSET? CRYING? yOU ARE AYING i AM POSTING ON YOUR S*ITES. WOULDN'T COULD'T WOULD CATCH A DISEASE.
ACT YOUR AGE NOT YOUR SHOE SIZE.
Sassy - actually that was one of the funny moments, that and the pampas grass ... I must say I miss bigL - even though he was an anti, he was always pleasant. That is at least something about the pros, they have a sense of humour ... and can joke around ... looking through the blogs on the two sites (we must think up a good name for them .. as we are the House of filth) it is like wading through treacle. Same old theories, some bizarre, with 2345 leaping up every few seconds waving Jane Hill's report in the air.
Christabel
Wouldn't she even put you on the waiting list???
ELAINE
ha ha ha
I did not know rothaymere was billy graham? My goodness. Or should I say My Godness.
They only poach from our site coz there is a lot more to talk about here, and they even confuse debating with ARGUING AND FALLING OUT so actually have gone from whining to bleating to CRYING on other sites I am told. My God they even come here to whine and bleat and argue about things. ha ha ha is their own s*ite not gooe enough..?? Oh dear. Sad little minds. You are so right Elaine in what you say about the PJ and the bloggers on other sites. Too obvious isn't it? Sad.
Sass,
No she said there was no room in the cells and nearly pushed me down the stairs.
Thats not nice is it ?
Elaine
Nowt's changed there then - in the anti-camp!
Perhaps I should post a theory on their blogs involving aliens!
If Alsabella is an example of their well thought out and intelligent - I'm more concerned.
She is the mother of all $%£%£^ of disney princesses! lol.
Can you imagine THAT on a jury if you were innocent?
I'd be hoping and praying for some of the more rational we see from Portugal that unfortunately get outvoiced on the net, too much...
Christabel
I think you'd better face up to the fact that Vile . . . and I hate to break it to you . . . might not . . . (how can I say it?) . . . like you. I know this will come as a shock, but I feel it is time that you knew this.
I have never posted on Vile's site, I do not even know what or where it is - so apparently according to another blogger I am posting there anonymously. How can I post on more than 1 blog at one time? Unlike them I have one face, one body and ONE PERSONA which I show. Unlike them who come here pretending to be what they are not. I can prove it too.
Yet others can come here and cause what they hope will cause problems, which it has not, and go away, then because it has not worked to go back to their s*ites and accuse LIBELLOUSLY others of what they whine here about don't they beegee.....
You are far below contempt. contempt to you is an aspiration a goal you could never reach. too low down for that.....
get a life and stop maligning innocent people the McCanns AND ME. lowlife.
Elaine, if I never read that same supposed report from "Jane Hill" it will be too soon, how many times can one person post the exact same post???
Well, about two hundred times apparently. I think even the ones who believe this are now just as sick of it. It is quite funny though!
even the ANONs posting ON OTHER SITES ARE NOW FALLING OUT OVER WHETHER OR NOT POSTERS FROM THIS BLOG ARE WHO THEY HAVE
G U E S S E D
they are
my god this beggars belief......???
Not only did they proveably have multi id's they accuse us who have never ever posted there of posting then falling out over who their guess of who ANON was....
ha ha ha ha ha
yes, the loonies have taken over their asylums...........
I rest my case.
They should now rest theirs - which they never had in the first place.
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
now go and
boo hoo boo hoo off
Did you read the Daily Mail link about the letters?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=520929&in_page_id=1811
They called it a last ditch attempt to solve the case. How encouraging!
Also, if you want the news from Portugal in English (only a weekly paper though) try www.portugalresident.com
Don't forget the chimeras sassy cos im not gonna forget that one lol!
Gumless Rottweillers Incarcerated would do for vivs.
Simply
The Voices
would do for the weird and wonderful world of alsabella.
Have you noticed how she switches and changes personas non stop too?
She cant do empathy or compassion cos she has none to give but that pseudo and manipulative sociopathic thang all the time. imo
Another thing ive noticed is her plagiurism. Not only did she post back all i said from herself in past, she also adopted a persona fast, check out her ha ha ha's - non existant in the original alsabella:-)
Hi All
Just looked in and had a quick scan through your posts.
I too think the case will be shelved/archived.
And sadly I am not confident tht Madeleine is still with us. That lawyer who was searching the lakes, has provided the most reasonable and logical theory yet.
I want so much for her to be alive because no matter what she might be going through, where there is life, there is hope. So I am undecided on her fate (how could anyone be otherwise), and as such will always say that we should continue to search for a living child.
Abduction by a predatory paedophile doesnt exclude assassin's theories about cover ups etc. The PJ or higher powers would not know the difference (unless they knew for certain what happened, and I doubt this) so would need to act the same way whether it was a person acting alone or as part of a larger organised even international ring.
Jakirla, Assasin, tinkerbell, et al#
No I do not think this case will be shelved. They would not dare due to me to the Tapas 10 or 11.......... It has to have an ending. Whether that 'ending' is true or not, I could not say, but an ending it will certainly have in my humble opinion. Too many pressure groups would force it to be concluded. Now, with Portuguese secrecy laws, this could with their archaic laws take is it up to 15 years? Not too sure. Helen M could help us here. But no, I eally feel the world is looking at this, and the world wants an answer. The McCanns did not lie down and take this from the start which I think surprised a lot of people including us, as never before has such high profile screening for help taken place. so, no, no shelving....too high profie, too many people involved, too many countries maligned.....look at all the sightings. they want a conclusion too. No there will be an End...truthful or not.....
I read the McCanns are going to Donegal soon for a holiday. Is it more than 5 days? They would need permission so when are the PJ coming for these interviews?
Ireland keeps coming up doesn't it?
SassyP said...
Christabel
I think you'd better face up to the fact that Vile . . . and I hate to break it to you . . . might not . . . (how can I say it?) . . . like you. I know this will come as a shock, but I feel it is time that you knew this.
28 February 2008 21:57
Thanks Sass, now you've really burst my bubble.
Thought this was a friendly site, just shows how wrong you can be lol !
Did you get link ?
Well i hope im not involved in that discussion they are having re who is who cos i will go and eat them if so.
never posted on vivs, dont look at it either, once was enough! The once was cos i found my shit ripped off on their through google.
alsabellas, looked twice, posted once, as self.
Goodnight all, enjoyed reading your posts.
Jane, I hope you have read my earlier post to you!
Take care, See y'all.
Hope tomorrow brings some positive news about Madeleine.
Or any of the other kids who are missing now.
I actually think an organised ring tbh. Mari and Madeleine ONLY possibly connected.
But, the pj behaviour is the only things that would cast another slight option on that...
Bye Jak
Come again soon!
jak, you have mail;-)
Sleep well
x
Nite,nite jak x
Christabel - link?
whizzg teyman
chinadoll will be here later tonight.
Helen M
why are people so frightened of the PJ and their methods please? If even Mrs Murat had a stall with posters asking for help if people felt they could not go to them, plus Murat as translator, it gives them a ridiculous momentum in all this. why is it so? Residues of a dictatorship???? Which imho the PJ is. And they will not speak about the acts of the dictators in fear and they know what is going on and has been for a while perhaps?????
WHERE'S MUM21
THOUGHT SHE'D BE HERE ...???
She raised a lot of points yesterday we are discussing today/tonight......she shares a lot of these views.....
Assassin
I remember when I first saw your posts as muse (referring to the earlier posts on here tonight) and new you were an anti. I also thought later on that some of your other identities were muse but dismissed it because you had changed sides. But your style of posting is quite distinctive at times.
I on the other hand always believed the McCanns to be innocent. It never even crossed my mind, I just saw this terrible grief. But after the rumours started (particularly forensics), I thought I must have been mistaken and spent a lot of my spare time researching and like you considering theories. And the result. 100% innocent. Madeleine was abducted by person or persons unknown.
Not sure about Robert Murat. But my gut feel is he also is innocent of the abduction. Bit strange the only other suspect is also a Brit.
Dianeh
Hello! I know what you mean with where there is life there is hope. I often wonder what would be better for Madeleine. I can't believe that being dead is better for her, but the thought of her being alive and going through goodness knows what and not being found is just awful.
And I am calling the race card here. Remember that I am Australian, not British.
jakirla
aren't you from my neck of the woods? If my memory serves me.....
Yes FF is not nice, but this is a much livelier blog where speech is encouraged not bombed down.
It is serious on the whole, but funny at quieter times. don't wrry about me and seawitch it goes a long way back you know if you read the DX. In fact, you will find a lot of this with others too but I won't name them You will find out yourself if you keep 'tuning in'.........
Hope you enjoy it here.
Assasin, agreed, from what I have read I have a tendancy to think it was an organised ring. I think Murat knows more than he is saying but I'm not too sure who is covering for who. I remember reading Murat told the police the Journalists were suspicious of him and they allegedly told him not to worry as he works for them.
earlier I was reading the interstting debate beig had on here about the way sexual connetations creep into the argument on 'those' two other sites and so thought I would check them out and here is a post I found which I though may be of interest to you. I guess it sort of proves the point some of you were making.
docmac said...
Actually anonymarkstupidflowerbell7
I read a discussion on your blog earlier that those who do not support the McCanns get some sort of sexual arousal from posting anything about the odd couple. I thought I'd give it a try, as I was feeling a bit frisky. Hasn't worked though. I'm very disappointed. I think I'll just have to play chess against myself, perhaps that will get me in the mood.
28 February 2008 21:28
Assasin
Had noticed what you said about Alsabelia. She never bothered me that much. We didn't agree but we didn't kill each other either. We got on OK until Claudia turned up and did her usual stirring and war-mongering.
Hi, by the way Claudia, see the Viseu map is still flying the Portuguese flag. Why not post here instead of just reading our stuff - we must all be of great interest to you. How nice x
Jane. Our society is way more open than Portugal. Nor is our country largely religious either and largely belonging to a religion that induces shame, guilt and pride and tells people how to think or not. That is not religious bias there btw cos most of my kids are RC and i am Christian myself too.
However, i know, first hand how hard it is to take on the police, social services and Education authorities HERE when they want to cover something up - so try that in a more closed community culturally? :-)
They close ranks with a venom and lie and lie and lie and try to silence you for all they are worth and will go to extreme lengths until they are absolutely beaten on every single count.
Hi Christabel, sorry didnt see you there. Hope you are well :-)
jak
no not read it yet, will go and look
I am 24 hr cafe by the way so should change from jgt to 24hr caff........
see you. soon I hope.
will go and read now. bye.
Docquack is going to play chess??? Yeah right! ROFLMAO
Sassy
I was having nightmares about Madeliene, terrible terrible nightmares. As I said, I am still undecided about her fate.
BUT if she is still alive, she must be found. The same as little Mari Luz and the many many little girls and boys who have been taken.
I dont dwell on the bad anymore, although sometimes it comes back to haunt me. I try to help in small ways and coming on here has been great therapy for me.
Dianeh
You would think that there would be some clue somewhere as to what has happened to all these children, wouldn't you. How can so many children go missing and there is absolutely no clue as to where they are or what happened to them?
Hi guys and dolls,
Looks like you have had a busy day, nearly three hundred posts already.
Diane,
Yep, we all have to go through stages to be totally objective i think.
I never changed names to change sides btw or with any motives. I continually had to change user names cos i got banned 20 times lol! Had to keep reregistering etc.
Always same style cos i always post as self, even if moderation teams try to silence me;-) That, i wont be by anyone lol!
He couldnt be anything other than non portugese. They dont have paedophiles. Perfectly safe country for your kids. They sell that so hard and so well that those that get naive enough for five minutes, buy it, and leave thier kids alone:-):-) I have lost count of the amount of arguing i have done with people on the internet from Britain over the years who have insisted they always holiday'd in Portugal cos they could let thier kids roam free - no abuse etc. It is naivety. The only place you could do that is where abuse is confined and hidden to an inner realm. And inner realms, always, at some point, make a mistake and hit an outside and weaker link that will rise up and smack them in the face, if not immediately - eventually:-)
Unfortunately, i dont think Madeleine is alive:-(:-(
She is a paedophile dream ticket - poor wee soul.
Hey China, good to see you. I cant believe the amount of posts we are getting, we are officially a week old today!
And not forget little Shannon.
I noticed that the do gooders are coming out of the woodwork to have a go at her mother for letting her walk home alone. I just hope she is too busy to read any forums or anything like that. It would be enough to push her over the edge.
I think it likely Shannon has been abducted. And once again, I have to say, the abductor is the criminal, not the mother.
€Docquak and chess? Not against kasparov i suspect.
Online - make your own opponent. Kiddie level - age 3 -5.
He will be back when he is beat;-)
Tinkerbell,
Really? A week today, our first anniversary - wow
Happy Anniversary everyone.
Assassin
I am not surprised you were banned. I had a go at you once, when you were muse and you gave me a good mouthful back. But I didnt once think to have you banned.
Actually it was some of your comments when you were anti that caused me to investigate the rumours (and things like how DNA evidence works and child abuse/slavery).
But I always like your direct style.
Another place that concerns me is Morocco, for all the countries protestations that they are not a paedophile haven, they are one of the countries named on the anti abuse/slavery sites. But on the positive side, Moroccan govt is working with other agencies to try to make Morocco a lot less attractive for illegal activities.
Diane,
I disagree with you there. Vulnerable children get abused.
Shannon was vulnerable. Madeleine was vulnerable.
Both are different from a child who is taken whilst out enjoying a natural freedom and both were vulnerable....
I am not blaming the parents there though cos every child is vulnerable at some point be it indoors, outdoors, or cos they have to live/operate within a system itself and at the end of the day, my view re madeleine is this...
She is so A1 perfect paedophilic perfect that has a group had sights on her, her parents could have watched her 24/7 and one slip or turn off head, and gone!
Diane,
Thanks. Yep, the ban crap was always when some or a group could not reply.
I agree with you, someone says something and you dont know, go question it always. I like your style.
Morocco is a biggie. It grows more and more and is becoming highly popular with the sex travellers too. but you know what i think and have said on that.
You are right, unlike Portugal, they are on some counts, active against - other counts, they are pretending to look active cos of flak they are getting:-)
I saw something posted the other day i meant to ask about and forgot...
Clarence Mitchell lost a child too?
Tinks
I hadn't even thought of that! A week open for business, open to the general public as opposed to the four of us all trying to different things at the same time and posting everywhere but the right place!!! How we have come on! It's a wonder this blog didn't implode when I think of when we first started it (when it wasn't open to everyone). I hadn't had a good laugh like that for a long time!!!
Assassin
I do actually agree that lack of parental control/supervision makes the child more vulnerable.
But as you have said, it is only degrees. Remember recently the french grandmother who had to beat off an abductor of her little granddaughter at the shopping centre. The Nana had hold of the child's hand, when some weirdo tried to grab her. But she fought him off and other people came to her assistance. I think the offender was deranged, off his meds, so he would most likely have harmed her.
Jane
I don't think the post you are talking about is still there! I think it is one I deleted as soon as it appeared.
Diane,
If this is the case with Shannon, then yes, as in the case with Madeleine, the abductor is the responsible party - full stop.
The perfect parents out there, will, no doubt, like vultures, pick over the bones of yet another tragedy of yet another missing child.
Vultures are, as we all know, Scavengers. Those that feed off the grief of these families, are no better than scavengers themselves.
Ho Janegt,
Wysiwyg,
How ya doing?
See you have been busy this evening and as always, making some very valid points.
A week.
Congratulations.
I like posting on here. I dont feel the need to defend every single thing I post. Because apparently everything I used to post was ill informed or else paid for from the McCann fund.
And I would just like to say, the anti's that come on here to post, dont like it because no one listens to arguments based on spurious rumours and no evidence. A proper debate should have thought out arguments with some sort of supporting evidence or at least a logical train of thought used to reach conclusions.
Its like the dogs. On certain blogs they seem completely unable to undertand that the dogs are not reliable where there is no body to find. They are extremely good and well trained, look at Jersey BUT there are bodies there. But there is a vast difference between a body being in a place for seconds with months passing before the test, a body not ever being there and a body still being in place. A bit of research even on the net would clear this up for them.
But Jane,
Alsabella is their enemy not foe in the cover up style and keeping it all in.
She exhibits with a fury an absolute bigoted and biast fury to even consider anything adverse against anyone within her country or her people.
Absolute non stop throwing away of inner shame and narcissism.
It is, 'i,i,i,me,me,me,self,self,self, [and us, us, us]etc'
[Maybe we should call her Tracey Beaker?]
Psychiatrists have absolute diagnosed terms for such absolute behaviours and ways and she is smack bang in there all the time.
So, i know we joke she is the PJ, runs them, works for them...
Reality - she is their biggest nightmare. Long may she continue to yap and Viv too:-):-):-)
They are so unhinged that if they keep going they are nothing more than absolute reality checks for anyone that ever doubted the McCanns...
They were part of my reality check for sure. The second, i thought wait a friggin minute, i doubted this or that myself, but this lot is beyond bizzarre altogether, so i went back to questioning, my own, less bizarre thinking - hard.
It all broke, when i applied mind:-)
assasin
prefer your 'reincarnation' as before I had some run ins with you too but have to sa we are on a wavelength now. How odd.
Is DOBY STILL FIGHTING WITH GOOGLE??? thought he'd be here by now.
sadly re Shannon I unhappily believe she is dead by someone known to her. It had a completely different feel, but I pray and hope I AM WRONG.
Until proven I cannot and will not accept Madeleine is dead. It just does not add up. If there is any, any slim chance, I will grab it for her as I would for my own child.
Whizz,
Heard on the grapevine that you have found your way here at last.
If you don't get back on again tonight, I would just like to say
'How are you me old Mr Kipling?'
assasin
not only the 'vulnerable' get abused. All can be. Not one of us can't. We should never say
WHY ME
We should say WHY NOT ME?
Sass, I remember it well, I couldnt post for laughing. My stomach actually hurt that night!
Didnt know if I was inside or out, on topic or in the headlines, lol.
You've the patience of a saint, but for all the stumbling we got there in the end ;0)
Chinadoll
Hiya
I noticed that the perfect parents were having a good ol' go on, I think the Daily Mail or thisislondon.co.uk. It didn't take them long. They were talking about the fact that a nine year old walked home on her own for such a distance.
When I was 10 I was walking to a friend's house. It took not quite 5 minutes to get there and a man tried to get me in his car. I was lucky because when I ran (he chose a place next to a corner house to stop, so the next house was a few metres away) I ran into my friend's house and her dad was in the front garden. He shooed the man away (I hadn't realised he had been running after me) and we saw the car speed off. I had already noticed the letters of the car because it formed a word, and my friend's dad got the numbers. The police could do nothing because he hadn't actually done anything to me. Anyway this is all boiling down to, if you walk one block away to visit a friend something can happen, too.
Sass, forget to say, its been well worth it - an extra BIG thanks to you.
Children are vulnerable EVERYWHERE. We just have to rely on parental skills and child education re abuse.
I live in a small square. I can identify several sexual abusers within it. Nope, i am not kidding either.
Erm, all are attached to authorities very hard indeed and have worked in or are part of trusted positions...
Likewise, potential child sexual abusers play around here...i recognise the look before they even act...
If i wanted my kids entirely safe where i live - they would never be allowed to walk out the door. I kill them myself if i took that option....
Evening ladies!
How are we all this evening?
I've come online so it must be bedtime for y'all - I've managed to arrive just as you were all heading for the cocoa!
Helloooooo........
Hi ladies,
who has been crying and where?
Tinks
I was no better than anyone else. My first attempt confused Rosie (who tried it out) because I couldn't find out how to do the blog in English! I had messages from Rosie saying it was really nice but when was it going to be English! And the answer? Well, never. That would have been a hit wouldn't it! I had to trash the first attempt and start again.
Yey, Marsman! Cool.
Didja take that job on Uranus? I put in a really good word for you and I think I swung it your way!
Can I have an Ovaltine when you make one, please?
Great to see you!
Hi Jane...and All. I am here now.
Having spent the last half hour reading back posts I have to say.....shame on you Elaine for mentioning the dreaded Jane Hill.
Having read that name several thousand times before by a certain knownothing person...I had hoped she had been buried and forgotten.
But I see..no chance te he he
Wrong Jane. Sorry, abuse of any ilk cannot happen without a vulnerability!
I meant I've managed to arrive every other night this week just as you were all heading off.....
Doh! I am dopey when I'm tired!
Tinks
Thank you, but it's not just me doing this! It was Rosie's idea to start with and all four of us had such a laugh getting it started.
Sassy,
May I first say 'happy anniversary' for first full week of our gathering. Thanks to your goodself and your fellow moderators, for your perseverance, decication and hard work.
Happy Anniversary (week one) for Madeleine McCann - Justice for the family.
As for your own personal experience, this really shows that these predators are real, waiting in the wings for any opportunity -
Sassy, you must know that you were one of the lucky ones and thank goodness too. You are giving so much back now by establishing this blog and doing all you can to draw attention to the reality of life.
Thank you Sassy.
Hey..who is making the Ovaltine? Could you make mine a big mug full please.
Rosie
Apparently Bee or GinaM has been crying. However, yet another comment was posted saying something about someone not crying because of us, but because someone thought she had let the other one down. Deleted it, so we didn't have GinaM as the main topic of conversation for the next 2 hours!
Thank you China, that's really nice of you!
Hiya Seawitch
Glad you could come!
Ginas multiple personality disorder was crying rosiepops. I mean her erm friend.
The usual stunt, someone that does not realise they are responsible for their own emotions and thought they would come and project them in here instead.
They should put a Government warning on madeleine blogs...
If you aint wholly mentally well - stay back and stay out, otherwise you might upset YOURSELF:-)
Hi and bye Seawitch, just trying to clarify some earlier statements made.
Hope you are well and good!
See y'all again soon!
See ya Jak!
Goodevening Mum21, Seawitch, Rosiepops and Assasin.
Am trying to catch up with posts and refreshing at the same time and had to say 'hello'
Hi Chaps
Just a quick look in,after watching a bit of tv.
Looking at Alsabella's site, it looks as if a nerve was struck with Docmoc re the "sexual " deviancies.
Talk of suing us,I hope Clarence does pursue every one of them, in time, as it cannot be right to defame the parent's character in this cowardly way.
Anyhow, the administrator of the 3 arguidos can be reached at
thethreearguidos@gmail.com
Alsabella was asked to remove the link and did'nt.
My computer knowledge is not great, but most of the "nasties " will have posted there.
dad23[2345] has just posted about how they are better educated,far more successful,far happier and confident than the mob on our side.
Our main motivation for attacking people is apparently "jealousy and a sense of inadequacy."
That is one person I would not like to be in charge of children.
Well guys, good night, as I have an early start.x
Hi Jakirla!
You haven't made any faux pas re me and Jane!
She is adorable and she knows I think that. I know you were teasing, too.
You are one of my favourite posters, both here and on the DX. I love your occasional Rambo the Terminator posts, so funny!
Sort of like the quiet little officer on Police Academy - the one who seems all meek and mild, then turns well-'ard when the situation needs a hero!
Hope you're well x
Jak,
Just saw you hun.
Hi and nice to see you.
I'll have to leave you night owls to it, catch you all sometime tomorrow. Take care, Nite all xx
Oh for goodness sakes, if I or mum or Jane and Christabel were to start crying on here every time were insulted it would be a cry fest!
I wouldn't mind but they were not even spoken to badly, just the posts removed so it wasn't the Gina and Bee show.
I see Alsabella is in full public forum hand wringing mode. (She loves it really)
Mum
I have to reprint this just in case you missed it earlier. It is the funniest thing I have read for a long time.
2345 said...
Anonymous,
Always check your source before repeating unfounded gossip. 11.35 a.m.
Thursday, February 28, 2008 3:34:00 AM PST
Hi all, just returned from hubby's birthday celebrations, trying to catch up on back posts, anything new?
hey chinadoll sysiwyg
how's ya?
whizzg is now teyman .....
he was on I sai you would be here. so he's lost in googlespace with doby........
Can't believe we are a week old
HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO US HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO US HAPPY BIRTHDAY DEAR BLOGGERS HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO US.
HIP HIP HIP HI[
yOU KNOW IT FEELS LIKE DECADES NOT A WEEK.
hic
well what dya expect from an ''ebolloxed'' drunk with no life etc .
ha ha ha ha
THAT'S WHY THEY ARE ALL HERE READING THIS.
EXCUSE ME MODERATORS could you please look up 'EBOLLOXED ' in the Oxford Dictionary.
JAKIRLA read all our posts got the one I dodn't see, ...... ALL'S FINE. see you soon.
Rosie. You have just made my day. I am almost falling off my chair with laughter.
What a gem 2345 is. te he he
notdoc and sex chess Olympics?
Well he appears to have so many different aliases, he would be playing with himself.
So what does that make him?
Night Tinks, Night everybody else too
I'm also off. See you tomorrow I hope.
Hi China and Sass!
Not up to posting anything worthwhile at the moment, but am hanging around for a while...
Goodnight Tinks,
and many thanks for pointing out that it is one week today, since this blog got underway.
Happy One Week Anniversary, again, to Madeleine McCann - Justice for ALL the family.
I would LOVE one of them to sue me. I truly would. What a gift to get one of their backsides in court and have the media there and expose them for exactly what and who they are. what they are saying and doing and why!!!
Whoo hoo, i hope one of them is rich enough and stupid enough to bring it on!
Yeah Rosie..but at least Alsabella has an Alsa Mod Team
We don't have one..now do we?
Oh dear, not as well educated.
We have been found out. All primary school students masquerading as adults.
Rosie/Gerry. As a heart surgeon I would have thought you were very highly educated. Or does this mean you are not Gerry? Or even Clarence? I am disappointed, I was only on here to rub shoulders with either of them.
But hold on I admit it, I am jealous. I wish I could write and believe the rubbish that they do and have some puffed up idea of my own self importance while living in a fantasy land. Sadly I have to live in the real world. So yes, I am jealous.
How do you get to make a point on here that you might not agree with without having it deleted. Seems to me you can say what you like about other people but no one can respond in their defence
Mum
Hilarious isn't it from the person that believes as fact every last tidbit coming out of the Portuguese gutter press and what Pear used to write of the Mirror forum rotflmao!
Rosie
Not all of Gina's / Bee's posts were removed. Just the ones that got insulting or came back hours later to start the topic up again!
Anonymous,
say what you like, keep it polite. Just do not take over the whole blog saying it.
Should I start crying because of the foul posting put up about me on ST's blog?
Anyone got a hankie?
Sassy
I know, I only removed the ones after I tried to tell them to move on.
But no one on here was rude to them.
assasin
I have to disagree there. Not only the 'vulnerable' are a great risk. We ALL ARE. therefore we all are vulnerable. To degrees, agreed. But no. It can happen to anyone unless they are locked up. which I can point to you some blog directions for advice on who should be.....
Perhaps they are, as they allow computing there too as has been suggested before.
so assasin ... why do people come on a debating blog or forum or whatever, then complain, cry or bleat when people 'argue' with them. Is that not the whole point of the whole thing? Enlighten them. Not me, as I know.
But Diane, ha ha ha;-);-)
I have already posted a lot on why htey are doing what they are doing today, but here is some more before i get back to where i should be lmfao...
Another reason that kate and gerry get such fury is because some people have trust and fear and control issues. These people are scared that they have to depend on others because on some subjects they are erm well thick! They need doctors to keep them alive...
A Doctor's child gets abducted, it doesnt just bring out their child insecurities re their own parents and theri own fears re their own children, it brings out in a wrath their total fears that they are not totally sufficient but have to rely on others like doctors etc.
It is the whole damn self god narcissistic issue, fury at their own dependance and fears and survival etc etc etc...
So of course they project straight back about lack of intellect etc, it is driving part of their fears. Fear of the Gods they feel in hands off....
Tinkerbel...but you do know that Alsabella insists Holly is ME?
Good post Tinks,
But I would disagree tehetehe
If he had one more cell, he would be an amoeba.
sassy for got to say I believe it was done to throw the blog off course.
I still do not think these PJ are coming, what was in the Standard just seemed to be a rehash to me.
Apparently a Portuguese paper is saying the letters have arrived and the queen has put this on her blog as news, but my point is, that this has been said many times before, where are they?
I wish they would hurry up!
Anonymous
Points of debate are not being deleted. But they are hardly ever made.
Put up a proper debating point and it will be debated on here. It wont be deleted. If you have 'proper' points to make, we would love to hear them. But not ridiculous unfounded conspiracies or accusations based on rumours.
Tinks
LOL
By the way Sassy, you know the PJ were in my Christams tree, messy sods, chucking all their wine bottles and tin cans on my lawn.
Jane,
yes, we are all vulnerable. I say this all the time. And i already said all of our kids are vulnerable unless we kill them ourselves with cotton wool.
Fact remains, a vulnerable child is on a plate to abuser. Both of those kids were....unfortunately.
I will say it again, i am not blaming their parents!!!
Point me to any link you like. But if you can find anything to further educate me on abuse i shall be coming to your house to shake your hand believe you me!:-)
Rosiepops said...
Anonymous,
say what you like, keep it polite. Just do not take over the whole blog saying it.
28 February 2008 23:28
.................................
Go read alsbella's site and then come back on here and see how you are all making too much about this crying thing. I don't expect that you want to bother, so please just leave it, you are being unfair. I know other sites are unfair too, but someone has to set some standard in order for others to hopefully follow. I find it a bit rude to say make a point, but don't take whole blog saying it. THANK YOU
This news from Alsabella that the PJ have been given the go ahead to come over here and sit in on further interviewing the McCann's and friends...has anyone heard that to be a fact from sources in the UK?
seawitch
don't put yourself down....no my sweet
you said
'I am dopey when I'm tired...' no
You are just dopey. full stop. y 100% with total consistency. I admire you for it. Keep going.
luv
jane
x
;o)
for the avoidance of any doubt this was a
J O K E LIKE IN HA HAAHHAA
Anonymous..is that what you want us to debate?
CHRISTABEL
WHERE YOU BEEN?
SILLY BAT if you want ONTO THAT BLOG remember their country has a 15 to 20 year 'freeze' on any written statements that you gave ....to join
you will get on in 2028 maybe if the rogatory lettes arrive. you may have to wait longer. Have you life assurance???
luv
jane
for our foreign visitors....again...;o))) JOKE AS IN HA HA HA
Mum
Can you imagine the people that have to open and deal with emails like this? I wonder what their reaction is? I bet they are in fits of laughter most of the time.
2345 said...
Dolores,
Thank you for TV transcript and links - I'm e-mailing them all.
Government's lies regarding Rogatory Letters are as blatant as the prime suspects. 11.35 a.m.
Thursday, February 28, 2008 3:32:00 AM PST
I've just gone and had a quick squint at Alsabellas site since you asked. She is doing her usual as are they all. They are adept at manipulation and twisting words and preying on the vulnerable and if you are buying it you are just that - vulnerable.
Sorry, I'm not out to offend you anon. But wise up.
Anon - your 23.39 post.
Stop whinging and whining on here, where we have no time for whingers and whiners.
Go back to your own clan, where they appreciate your constant moans.
This forum is not for you.
Mum21 said...
Anonymous..is that what you want us to debate?
28 February 2008 23:41
I never said I wanted anything debated I just ask politely how do you make a point and my point was what I just replied to Rosiepop. Sorry to have troubled you. Goodnight
Assassin
Agreed. The trust issue is a big part of it. As is the jealousy issue. You know with the big house 75,000 pounds (cant use the proper sign as my keyboard is set for Aust), even such things as the new car. The fund has also created a lot of jealousy.
But I have said that before and was abused. The anti's were not jealous, they pretend they are all afluent, so they are not influenced by those things. Of course they (at least some) are. that is why the class issue keeps being brought up. You know the stuff, the media coverage would not have been the same if they were poor from an estate, or a single parent. Not sure about that.
Quickly on that. I dont think it was the class issue that caused the media coverage. I think it was a beautiful little blond haired British girl taken in a foriegn country. I dont think it would have mattered what country. Things are always amplified when they happen to a national outside their home country.
It is definitely a combination thing. And then there are the few that are complete nutters (that is what my ex husband would call them and he was a pom).
You have obviously given this whole thing a lot of thought. Good for you.
China. I really cannot believe some people. A couple of days ago on the queen's blog I was verbally abused over and over again. When I tried to stick up for myself..the queen accused me of coming on her blog to aggravate her posters.
I did not see loads of anons accusing her of foul play....and not being fair.
Rosie, China, Sassy, et al.
Can you please tell why Dolores and many others insists that the British Govt are lying about the rogatory letters?
As an aussie, I am not understanding why Brits would be bagging their own govt without any idea of what is actually going on. I trust our govt and yours to perform their due process, as this is what will protect our civil rights in the long run. NSW is once again have curruption scandals, as is the Victorian police force and yet, I dont read the the bad things about our govts' as I am reading about yours (on the blogs)
I will tell you what anon.
Here is a counter challenge...
Go back and tell alsabella and company that assasin shall come over to her site tomorrow and sheerly debate, nothing else..
See if she says yes or if she gives you an excuse:-)
Then you sit back and watch it all and see how fast and where they start abusing and for nothing and hitting the delete button..
Hows that? :-):-):-)
Anon
it wasn't meant to be rude. We had a couple of Alsabella's posters on here to day making extremely long posts about the same subject, hence my 'don't take over the whole blog saying it'
If you want to get sites to clean up their act why start with this one? Why not pop over to Viv's and start there? Why come here?
dianeh. I think the only reason some people are knocking our Government is because they have run out of people to knock.
The case is going nowhere fast. So who do the anti's blame?
The easy one..and one that cannot hit back..is the Government.
Right that's it for me for tonight.
I am off to bed.
Good Night All...and God Bless.
DianeH
What I think is happening is those with an extreme right wing agenda has hijacked the Madeleine story in order to do harm to the Labour government. people from extreme right wing like Leigh3 and SueB another one that regularly puts the boot in is Tylersmum! Plus you always know when they are going to attack the British government they start calling it Nu Labour!
the suckers that fall for this claptrap are those like 2345 and Hope4truth and pratonthebeam. pratonthebeam by the way almost seems rabid in her attack on Clarence Mitchell. I have watched her make post after post each day dedicated to attacking this man to the point in mentioning his children and which football ground they would be attending.
I found that disturbing and I think the DX removed this post, she also did not reserve her insults to Clarence, she had to start attacking his wife also!
So look to the extreme right wing for putting out these crazy government conspiracy theories.
night mum, wont be far behind you am very tired today.
Sleep well take care xxx
Hi everyone and Chinadoll. Still with the Kiplings China:-)
Regarding those rogatory letters.
They were never sent, yet the Pj said they were. The Portuguese Attorney General said they were never sent, yet still muppets like 2345, H4T and bestrest insisted that it was the fault of the British government, talk about in denial!
By the way have you noticed that Bestrest and onaclearday have vanished since the DX went? I think they got swallowed up by Viv.
Mum 21,
That is because you are viewed as a threat - easy way out is to undermine and discredit you.
In fairness to Alsabella - and I openly admit, that I pop in and take a look at her site (mainly trying to see if Athena is about)
Alsabella appears to me, to be very defensive of her audience and does not appear to want to encourage numpties, who have no contribution to make to the discussion in hand.
Equally, genuine debate seems to be supressed, which is a shame. I have posted only once on that site and that was in response to my disgust at the open letter to Mrs Healey. My post was not personal, but to the point.
In a way, this blog and that of Alsabella, are now divided into the two camps that were representative of the DX forum - with the odd crank or two thrown in for the hell of it.
I must say, it is not the same as before. Personally, I looked forward to the backslapping pro brigade on the DX, but I also enjoyed the tangles with the antis and found their slant on things informative, even after consideration, lacking in substance.
My mind has never doubted the McCanns - never.
The world is a kaleidoscope and everyone in it, has something to say.
Sorry Mum, you did not invite that rant, I had to get it off my chest.
Sarah, I don't know whether china is still here, but she did leave a message for you. Further up the blog a little.
She may come back though as she does usually say goodnight before she goes.
A
Sarah, sorry china is still here!
Rosiepops, if you are still here, having once deleted a post is it possible for that post to be reinstated?
I don't know how I manage it.:-)
CHINADOLL...
RANT? THAT WAS SHORT AND CONCISE FOR YOU..
WELLDONE FOR KEEPING IT SHORT AND SWEET.
;O)))
WYSIWYG INDEED
I was incensed with the open letter to Mrs Healy and when found out 2345 had delivered it I was like Rosiepops apoplectic....raging......
hope you are well......
JANE
Night all. Well done on the blog, it seems it's settled down nicely.
Won't be posting for a while but will come back when I've something to say. Am working long hours at the mo and only up for banal chat and banter, and this is the wrong place for either. Will get that from Jane via e-mail! LOL ;-P
See y'all when I've got my philosophical hat on!!!!
Happy debating all! x
Howdie Sarah, Do you know anyone called Whizz?
He's a bit of a lemon slice, if you know what I mean!
SEAWITCH
GET SOME GOOD DEEP SLEEP. Noone's epitaph says 'I wish I had spentmore time at work'.......??
keep in touch one wa or another.
sleep well.
nite nite
jane
;o)
SeaWitch
We don't care what hat you have on, please do not leave it too long.
Take care xxx
Diane,
Definately my last post for tonight. I was going hours ago lol.
.......................
Assassin
Agreed. The trust issue is a big part of it. As is the jealousy issue. You know with the big house 75,000 pounds (cant use the proper sign as my keyboard is set for Aust), even such things as the new car. The fund has also created a lot of jealousy.
...........................
I've got to say neither of those were things for me when i had doubts, more the case i know class and status makes no difference with abuse, it is utterly universal. However, those things we agree on are tripping from the lips of way too many.
Re the fund, it is a cheap shot. I think some of that is maybe fear too - and perhaps inadequesy and anger too.
IE So many rich people jumped up and backed the mccanns. It has got to be said, none of these people have every jumped up and helped other families in similar situations. it is that whole thing of everything that the McCanns and Madeleine exemplify that has driven them to do this. Madeleines face is a strong key in all this too. I'm afraid, imo, the people that backed financially too are all analytically explainable in themselves in why they did this, THIS time. However, i am very glad they have. I would like to see it done for all children, or at least more, but the fact it is done for one is good. Madeleine deserves it, so no matter the motive and fact other missing children dont get the same must therefore be 'discarded' as an entirely separate issue. It is infact maybe very much counteracted by the fact Gerry and Kate have put up such a staunch fight to find their daughter thus raising the profile of all missing children.
I do not give a flying fig if they paid thier mortgage or even painting kates nails out of that fund! [i know they have never done the latter btw, i am simply making a point here...]
Even when i was questioning the mccanns i posted on the fund, and my comment was this...I wouldnt give to it, [i am giving now in my time and energy and tbh i almost hit the donate button the other night, and then felt guilty cos my kids would be on beans on toast if i did lmfao, but come friday, im sure i will tbh...and then will regularly with small amounts i can afford after that]...anyway back to point....even as an anti..albeit i dont like that label, pro or anti...i said, i wouldnt give cos it was for singular child, the goals have widened now, but what i did say was that had i been someone that did donate i would not object to any way they spent the money. Thus cos...the lifestyle and security of the twins still need met in this hell. So, even if mccanns were guilty [i dont think they are!] id have no objection to the money spent to home them, keep them, whatever. As a society we have a responsibility to all parents and children, not just those we happen to select or support. ALL!
And, even if they were guilty..which they are not, they need healing not crucifying imo.
............................
"But I have said that before and was abused. The anti's were not jealous, they pretend they are all afluent, so they are not influenced by those things. Of course they (at least some) are."
Yes, they are influenced or jealous in the large part. They are also severely inadequate for the most parts by far. Note they are all i i i or i am i am i am - with a whole foray of careers they supposedly have which can be combusted as non fact by a 3 year old.
I felt deeply sorry for Kate on thinking of how she has taken some comments personally re the ivf stuff and thinks it is cos people see her as non maternal that she is guilty and that maternal lies in a 'look'. She gives up her own insecurities and feelings there without even knowing them herself or what she is voicing. Really sad.
Anyway, thats a whole nother subject, but showed her deeper anguishes with a clarity. But more than that, with a transparency!!! Killers are not transparent - ever! They both show their weaknesses and humanity all the time and moreso recently and its good cos it allows a true picture of them to shine through:-):-)
"that is why the class issue keeps being brought up. You know the stuff, the media coverage would not have been the same if they were poor from an estate, or a single parent. Not sure about that.
"
The media coverage wouldnt be and isnt - even on the back of Madeleine, nor is a police response here either...That simple. Look at Shannon Matthews. Even in here, i spotted an odd comment, that ws different, they were dysfunctional etc etc. Bad, bad, bad!
............................
"Quickly on that. I dont think it was the class issue that caused the media coverage. I think it was a beautiful little blond haired British girl taken in a foriegn country. I dont think it would have mattered what country. Things are always amplified when they happen to a national outside their home country."
They are amplified. However, why this is so big, i dont have time to explain tonight otherwise id be here till next week, or even beyond that lol! But, im happy to come back on it when i get time:-)
...............
"It is definitely a combination thing. And then there are the few that are complete nutters (that is what my ex husband would call them and he was a pom)."
i hope you traded him for an Aussie. I've done that too ha ha ha!
...........
You have obviously given this whole thing a lot of thought. Good for you.
.............
and likewise:-)
Sorry this is so incoherent, still busy with much other stuff and in and out of here at 100mph:-)
Nite
X
Hello Rosie China and Tinkerbell
helen
I'll have a look bit I dont think it is, if it is do you want me to do it?
Hey Teyman
great to see you back x
Someone here to see you I think!
What would I do without my lemon slices And Sarah not getting one.:-)and my Ovaltine.
B
Ok Whizz,
I am bordering on thinking it is really you............but do you have any more evidence?
All this McSpam and everying is making me a bit more paranoid than usual.
Pass over the lemon slices.
listen you dimsits, you have been passing one another all day and geewhizz spoof ban wallop is getting me made
yes it's him
yes it's her
and now it's me Jane so can we talk or do I p&ss off to bed...
???
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